Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20091015

we are moving in the right direction. our economy is in better shape today than it was when i took office. >> the other day the american people are looking at the stock market in terms of putting food on the table. they want jobs, and they want them now. >> what's in a number, joe? the dow reaches 10,000, but some are saying there's nothing to celebrate here. >> ten is the lucky number. 10,000, right? and unemployment is 10%. >> exactly. >> the two numbers don't seem to go together. >> rush out of the game. the investment team drops him as they're vented by the rams. is that how it's going to be? >> i think we've all got a problem with it. i guess his critics won. >> all right. >> his critics won. let's see what happens when somebody on the left who said something controversial tries to buy a sports team in the future. >> also, is hillary clinton more popular than the president? we're going to talk about that. >> she's my girlfriend. we've got a new poll on that. >> mike barnicle is here. >> have you been okay, mike? >> i'm looking good. i've been on beraefment leave. >> the daily beast had their first anniversary last night. talked about their last year in politics. james carville was there. >> he's something. i've never seen him in person. >> he's a great man. >> he's explosive. >> he said you were a great bs 'er, and he would love to sit in a bar with you sometime and just talk politics. >> there would be no show then. >> hey, willie geist. >> willie, are you all right there? >> am i? >> i'm awake. >> he's upset because mr. obono died. he had his brother for driver's ed. >> we're going to try to turn that frown upside down. maria bartiromo is going to be here today. >> it's time for a look at some of today's top stories. marking a milestone for the nation's economic recovery this morning, the dow jones will open above 10,000 for the first time in more than a year. big earnings from jp morgan helped push markets higher across the board. today asian markets are following the trend with stocks there at a 14-month high. as nbc's john yang reports, president obama is welcoming the news from wall street while acknowledging the job market still has a long way to go. >> reporter: on wall street, cheers and applause as the dow closes above 10,000 points for the first time in a year, driven by a big quarterly earnings report from jp morgan chase. but beyond new york, big numbers of a different kind. lines stretched for blocks in downtown detroit to apply for federal housing aid. in chicago, hundreds of people looking for jobs jam a career fair, a far cry from the record earnings and bonuses expected this year at wall street banks and investment firms. $168 million in bonuses at insurance giant aig, bailed out last year with $180 billion in taxpayer dollars, sparked an outrage on capitol hill. >> how much more money in bonuses will the american taxpayer be required to foot? >> i think the majority of american people think these bonuses are ridiculously excessive. >> and on the streets of miami. >> these people are losing their homes, losing their families, losing their jobs. nobody's there to bail them out. >> guys like ezekiel jamie of chicago, a father of two who's been out of work since may of 2008 and is on the verge of losing his house. >> it's been very stressful on me and especially my wife too. >> according to the labor department, unemployment is at least 10% in 14 states in the district of columbia. worst off, michigan with 15.2% unemployment. nevada, 13.2%. and rhode island, 12.8%. and nationwide, families usa, a health care advocacy group, says more than 4 million people lost health care this year due to the recession. wall street may be booming, but main street is struggling. >> right now the american people are still suffering, losing jobs, still worrying about paying bills, putting the kids through college and paying the mortgage. >> and worrying about the future. back in 1999 when the stock market first hit 10,000, veteran investor lynn lee bell was optimistic. >> in '99 i was looking forward to retiring. >> and now? >> where i am today is i'm looking forward to retiring. >> mike, what does 10,000 mean? we were at 14,000 in the middle of the biggest bubble the past 20 years. >> you know, anecdotally, i would tell you this. after having traveled around for the past week and a half to various parts of the country, there are two groups of people. one group aged maybe 24 to 30, and the other group maybe 50 to 62, both groups widely jobless. the 50 to 62 group, not much hope of getting a job or the same job they had before. and, i don't know, it's reaching critical mass out there, almost to the point of off of john yang's report, approaching a class war aspect. they read in the paper, the dow hit 10,000, everybody's gleeful. they resume the bonus payments at aig. it's a very incendiary moment in our culture. >> one sector of our country that's struggling is seniors struggling to make ends meet. with many of them doing so, president obama is calling for a new burst of payments to more than 50 million americans on social security. the one-time payment of $250 aims to compensate seniors who will not be receiving a cost of living adjustment next year. that's because the recession is keeping prices down. the white house plan would cost the government about $13 billion. although president obama continues to hold a steady approval rating, a new gallup poll shows he's less popular than his secretary of state. hillary clinton has a 62% favorability rating, six points higher than the president. it's a sharp reversal from january when obama topped clinton by 13 points. still the secretary of state is dismissing any talk of an ongoing rivalry. >> he said i want you to be my secretary of state, and i said, oh, no, you don't. but we kept talking. i finally began thinking, look, if i had won and i had called him, i would have wanted him to say yes. and, you know, i'm pretty old fashioned. it's just who i am. at the end of the day when your president asks you to serve, you say yes if you can. >> would you have called him? >> absolutely. absolutely. oh, of course. >> did you hear that laugh? >> you like that. >> i did. it was joyous. >> i'm still angry for her about the way she was treated on the africa trip, which she did so much good, tina. >> absolutely. actually, the wild hyena kak l. hillary has a good way of doing that when she is absolutely astonished by the question. no, she has worked. she is so professional. she's the definition of professional. logging away, doing the work, policy crunching. she's incredible. in pakistan, 37 people are dead today after teams of militants attacked three security sites in the eastern city of lahore. the coordinated strike lasted for at least an hour in what officials are calling a guerrilla war. the washington times is reporting the small town of standish, michigan, is lobying to bring terror detainees into their prison. the maximum security facility is set to close at the end of the month, potentially taking hundreds of jobs with it. today the city council will vote on a resolution supporting the transfer of more than 200 detainees from guantanamo bay. solutions. >> she's stepped up. we're going to have her on monday, are we not? california's first lady is apologizing for breaking a california state law while holding a cell phone to her ear while behind the wheel. a 2008 law requires california drivers to use hands free devices. shriver respondeded by saying she'll donate a cell phone to charity, calling it swift action with a higher purpose. >> my god, thank god tmz doesn't follow you around. you try to program computers from behind the wheel. you do everything. >> a little makeup. >> newspapers. >> i've really worked on this, and my children are helping me. phone goes in the trunk. >> got coffee brewed in there. >> let's not talk about my mixed drinks. >> you've got that little bar in the middle of the console. >> you know when people tell you there's no such thing as a santa claus, and it breaks your heart. >> my brothers told me that when i was 5. i'm sorry. >> we all know there's no santa claus, but the first time they tell you that, it hurts you. tina brown tells me my girlfriend's cackle is calculated. it's not coming from the heart? >> it's just a good cackle is all i can say. hillary clinton is known for, the more wild the laughter, the more she's in defense of the question. she's really good at doing it. she has quite a lot to cackle about really. everybody has been so wrong in what they predicted. they thought there was going to be rivalry and sparks. there was hope that it would. >> she's always been this way, hasn't she? she's always kept her head down. she's always worked. she's always been -- and i don't mean this in a negative sense at all. she's always been like a good student. there's a movie called "the good girl." from the time she was young, you read all these stories about her. she always applied herself and worked hard. >> it shows really that women have to work 15 times as hard to just simply get any credit at all. this woman at this point is so qualified. every job she's held, she's been a huge success at it. >> in the united states senate, she kept her head down. she worked hard. she stayed off of cameras. >> and people around with the videos, and she just did the work. i actually think she's very happy now fimly. she doesn't have to raise money anymore. all that glad handing, she actually hated all that stuff. it's not what she likes doing. she's the reverse of most politicians. she actually loves crunching through policy papers. she's actually one of the few people who's read the health care bill when she doesn't even have to. she's just a remarkable wonk in that sense and does it. i think it's really paying off for her in this particular administration. >> you know, as badly -- and i don't want to bring all of this up from the last campaign, but as badly as she was treated last year -- and she was treateded horrifically by the mainstream media. i mean, the bias against hillary clinton was sickening. i'm glad it ended so well for her. >> i am too. actually, oddly enough, i think barack obama is actually quite good for her. i actually think his style works pretty well for her. he's all about business too. i'm told in these cabinet meetings, he's absolutely no schmoozing. he wants to know what everybody's got. and he wants them to follow up their comments with position papers. imagine how hillary loves that. this is her element. >> and her notoriety, he brought her into this job because of that as well, what she brings to the table. let's get a check of the weather with bill karins, who i guess is watching the nor'easter still. you say nor'easter, everyone thinks blizzard. this is a fall nor'easter. some snow out of this, but this is mostly going to be a rain event. going to be chilly and raw and feel like maybe the beginning of december instead of the middle of the october. rain is just starting to break out down through areas of the mid-atlantic. carry your umbrella anywhere from hartford southward. the problem area is right along the coast. we're going to see the strongest northeast winds 50 to 60 miles an hour. high wind warning from the jersey coast down to delaware. big cities, from new york to d.c., one to three inches of heavy rain to high elevation snow is what's going to cause the most damage. that's going to be around state college, university of pennsylvania, all the way back into areas there of western p.a. we could see 6 to 12 inches of snow at the high elevations. there's leaves on the trees, and that will cause some power outages, but not in any of the big cities. forecast today, hartford southward temperatures in the 40s. windchills 40 to 45 at most. it's going to feel very raw out there. pretty much a winterlike day. rest of the country, strong storms in the southeast from atlanta down to new orleans. we'll watch out for more rain for you today. and washington, d.c., joe and mika, will be one of the areas that will see the heaviest rain. look at the forecast for friday, d.c., should be around 70 degrees this time of year. for friday, we'll be lucky to hit mid-40s. >> we were going to go up to the rfk memorial golf tournament, where barnacle and i all went golfing. >> with father krieden. >> we won closest to the hole. >> anyway, it got rained out because of this nor'easter. >> i know. >> thanks, bill. i hope they'll reschedule that. that's a great event for a really great cause. coming up, the dow closes above 10,000 for the first time in a year. we'll talk about the significance with cnbc's maria bartiromo. also, former dnc chair and governor howard dean will be with us. and rush limbaugh rejected in his bid to be an nfl owner, and the radio host quickly dished out the blame. we'll bring you the latest on that. after the break, an exclusive look at politico's top stories of the morning, including a bad call for obama. wait until you see who's asking joe biden to resign. you're watching "morning joe." >> let's get to the bottom of this. (announcer) we call it the american renewal and at ge it means innovating, inventing and building things. it means everything from shipping a new wind turbine every 4 hours to creating some of the world's most advanced healthcare technologies. manufacturing is part of ge's belief that the american renewal is making things right here in america. the american renewal is happening right now. resech shows that dancing is good for your heart. so is fish oil. nature made fish oil protects your heart, so you can dance great and live great every day. learn more at naturemade.com. nature made. fuel your greatness. ♪ ♪ >> one of the great clips of all times. >> i think it's so nice when he dances with people. >> i respect the president jumping in there. president bush jumping in there. >> cheap shot. it's nice. he's joyful. >> archlts for effort is the best i can say about that one. >> what about tom delay? >> that guy can move. with two left feet, by the way. >> you know what, his daddy never quit. he wasn't going to quit because his feet hurt. >> i'm going to tear up here, joe. >> until he quit. >> you don't put your daddy out there if you're going to quit anyway. >> we have chief director of politico jim vandehei. we're looking at the playbook of someone asking joe biden to resign. >> earlier, arianna huffington, who we have on the show from time to time, she posted a column saying if biden loses the intern fight to increase troops in afghanistan, he should step down in protest. sort of a profile in courage, if you will, is the argument she's making. i think he's probably going to lose that fight internally. if he took her advice, he'd be out of a gig. i don't think he will. i think what you're seeing now is on the left real frustration they think obama will increase troop levels. the entire focus so far is whether or not he'll do that. what people have not paid attention to is whether or not congress will actually fund it. nancy pelosi and a lot of liberals in the house don't want to fund it and didn't want to fund it a year ago. >> they will fund it. in the end, they almost always do, but it's tough because, remember, a year ago when obama was more popular, when he had just come into office, it was really hard for the house to get that spending through. i think it's going to be even harder this time around, and it's going to be happening at a time -- and it could be almost the identical time when they're trying to move a health care bill that a lot of liberals aren't going to be entirely pleased with because they're not going to get much more than they have in the baucus bill. >> talk about funding wars. remember when i was there, we had concerns about bosnia, kosovo getting into a balkan civil war. we talked about not funding. people always end up funding it. if the commander in chief asks for it, you fund it. >> that's true, especially when it's in your own party. >> i think that's true. the thing to watch is obama has had some problems on the left. he's never going to have support from the republicans. he's always trying to figure out how does he placate the liberal base and want to do more? there's so many things that are going to happen simultaneously in november and december that will make his life hard. the health care bill, the funding for the troops, the decision on mcchrystal, and also whether or not they can do re-regulation of the financial sector, which huffington post and other liberal publications are calling for big action. >> very busy time and a busy time of year from now, jim vandehei, when we'll have a lot of congressional seats coming up. how are the republicans feeling at this moment. >> they haven't had anything to smile about for a long time. you're starting to see a couple of reasons for hope in the senate. up in delaware, mike cassell, a moderate republican looks like he'll run against biden's son and could easily win that. you see polls in colorado looking better and better for republicans. harry reid, there's two polls in nevada that show two unknown candidates beating him pretty handily this early in the race. you take all of that, and on top of that you take the money. >> jim, we're looking at the number here. put that back up. the majority leader of the united states senate is losing by ten points in his home state. >> right. the two people who don't -- tarkanian might have some name recognition because his dad was a heck of a coach back in the day when they had an amazing basketball team. >> and some recruiting violations too. didn't have the cleanest program in the ncaa, but they played good ball. >> does he run with a towel? >> who's this guy beating the senate majority leader by ten points? >> it reflects how unpopular reid is at home. if you break down the numbers and look at his unfavorable rating, they're dangerously high for someone running for re-election. on top of all that, a lot of people didn't notice, but for two months in a row, republicans have outraised democrats at the senate campaign committee level. that hasn't happened for some time. i think it shows the level there is more enthusiasm among the grass roots for republicans, and democrats have having trouble attracting the money that obama attracted during his campaign. >> in '06 and '08, it was impossible for republicans to get people excited. i would ask democratic candidates as they walk off, how's the money going? the republicans all smile and basically say, you know what, i make the phone calls. they immediately take them and write the checks. a lot of concern. and it's not just republicans giving them money. i think they're going to be awash in cash. >> and a big concern for harry reid, ten points down at this moment. thanks so much, jim. >> you think a pit boss from like the sands could possibly be free? >> at this point, actually what we've seen on the democratic side, we showed you that footage yesterday of charlie rangel dodging questions about his long-running tax problem. >> this may be why democrats are in part in trouble right now? >> and actually, why the republicans may see some headway because this is just ridiculous. >> going through corruption as nancy pelosi would like to call it. >> that's what we'd like to call it as well. as nbc investigative correspondent lisa myers explains, rangel's troubles could now be going from bad to worse. >> reporter: under an ethical cloud for more than a year now, charles rangel was in no mood to answer questions about that when nbc news caught up with him late afternoon. >> any plan to step aside while the ethics panel investigates you? >> i thought we were here to talk about trade and health. obviously, you were not informed on that. >> reporter: the powerful chairman of the house ways and means committee recently revised six years of financial disclosure statements, revealing more than $600,000 in previously unreported assets, and tens of thousands of dollars in unreported income. among the holdings rangel failed to report, an investment account and a checking account. each worth at least $250,000. rangel also has admitted that he failed to report and pay taxes on $75,000 in rental income on this villa in the dominican republic. >> how exactly did you forget to file that on your taxes? >> you shouldn't be that way, you know that? you really shouldn't. i know it's your job, and i don't blame you, but it's really so rude. >> reporter: in the past, rangel has blamed his problems on sloppiness and said he did nothing wrong. mr. rangel's pattern of conduct is what's so troubling here. it's not just one violation, it's a pattern of violations. at the very least, it looks like he's arrogant and doesn't believe the rules apply to him. republicans are demanding that rangel be removed as chairman until the ethics investigation is complete. >> mr. rangel is the chairman of the tax writing committee in washington, d.c., and yet he didn't pay his taxes. >> reporter: so far house speaker nancy pelosi is sticking with rangel, but there is some nervousness among house democrats, who worry about how all this may play with the public. lisa myers, nbc news, washington. >> wow. how do you not report 600,000 there's? >> this sounds like good old boston politics. oops. maybe it came in cash, and he put it in a shoe box. >> convenient. >> the refrigerator? >> coming up next, a look at morning papers from around the country. and a little later, an exclusive look at the new cover of "time" magazine. managing editor rick stengel gives us a preview of that. plus grave mistakes. some stunning allegations involving burial sites at arlington national cemetery. >> this is a shocking story that could have, boy, some ramifications. >> we'll be right back with more "morning joe." i wish i knew then what i know now. get what dermatologists now recommend to fight aging... in new aveeno positively ageless multidefense. a combination of a high spf and powerful antioxidants... designed to reduce lines and wrinkles in just 4 weeks. new from aveeno. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. well-informed people are considering a chevy malibu. are you a cop? no. you didn't hear it from me, but this malibu is a best buy. yeah, i heard that from consumers digest. it offers better highway mileage than a comparable camry or accord. estimated 33 highway. i saw that on the epa site. so how come the malibu costs so little. it's a chevy. you have cop hair. introducing the 60-day satisfaction guarantee. buy a new chevy if you don't love it, we'll take it back. [bell ringing] the way the stock market's been acting lately you may wonder if you've been doing the right thing. is the advice you've been getting helping or hurting? are the fees you're paying really worth it? td ameritrade's fees are fair and straight-forward. their research is independent and unbiased. their investment consultants are knowledgeable and there when you need them. so why not talk to one? announcer: call today to schedule a free investment check-up, or visit a td ameritrade branch. welcome back to "morning joe." look at l.a. it's just after 6:30 on the east coast. time now for a look at some of today's top stories. for the first time in a year, the dow jones is back above the 10,000 mark. although economists say it's an important psychological milestone, unemployment continues to creep toward double digits. today the labor department will report on the september consumer price index where a lack of inflation is expected to continue. also this morning, president obama will head to new orleans for the first time since taking office. the president will focus on rebuilding efforts for the gulf coast four years after hurricane katrina. still some local leaders are hitting the white house over the length of the visit. the president will be there for just a few hours before heading to san francisco for a dnc fund-raiser. >> these guys just don't get it. when i say these guys, i'm talking about the people that set up the president's schedule. the person that said, let's take a picture of george w. bush from 30,000 feet. >> right. >> i mean, seriously, if you're running it again, i'm not knocking the president. he's got people that work for him. why do you not send him down to new orleans for the first month. then when you send him down, why not send him down for two hours and then send him to san francisco for a democratic fund-raiser when he's going to be there how long, all night? i'm not saying he doesn't care about it, but it's bad optics. >> we'll start with the top stories. the dow at 10,000 as crisis ebbs. still doubts about this bullish rally. >> and "the washington post," dow passes mile 10,000 on the road to recovery. i laugh at that headline. what recovery? >> that's it. what are the fundamentals? >> "washington times," troop funds diverted to pet projects. senators diverted $2.6 billion in funds to a defense spending bill to head projects to acts that play for fuel, ammunition and training for u.s. troops. >> way to go. "the boston globe" "the new york times" will not cut the boston globe, citing significant improvements in their standing. >> and nasa considering work force cuts. >> slim gains across new york. the state's fourth and eighth graders showed no notable progress. don't go to the next paper. mika, i have an extraordinary story about a school up in harlem where kids come in on a first grade reading level. eighth graders at this harlem school, you know what they scored average grade at 38%? i went there yesterday, 100% of them. >> amazing. >> 100% in the math skills for eighth graders up at this harlem school. >> we'll have the full story coming up. >> it is the story of education and how they do it. we're going to tell you how they do it. it is unbelievable. you know how they do it? they expect results. it was stunning what i saw there. >> i've never seen him more excited about an event that he's covered. we'll have the video and the full story coming up. the atlanta journal-constitution, math scores rise in georgia. one of 15 states to see eighth graders improve scores on a major math skills test. education a major issue. we're taking it on in a big way. >> and we'll be talking more about the national report card on math just ahead. rush limbaugh rejected in his bid to own an nfl team. we'll talk about the ramifications of that. we can do the small things, the big things, just about everything... right inside your gm dealership. find out more at goodwrench.com. ♪ ♪ when it comes to protecting the things you care about... ...leave nothing to chance. travelers. insurance for auto, home, and business. gm drivers.. it's goodwrench & go time. three great services: all in one place. all at one time. all for one price for most gm vehicles. but it's only for a limited time. at participating gm dealers. this is not about the national football league. it's not about the st. louis rams. that's just a subset. this is the latest in a long line of attempts by the left to discredit any of us who believe what we believe. sarah palin. the list is as long as we want to make it. i'm not even thinking of exiting. i'm not even thinking of caving. i am not a caver. none of us are. we have been betrayed by too many who have caved. pioneers take the arrows. we are pioneers. it's a sad thing but our country, over 200 years old now, needs pioneers all over again, but we do. >> that was rush limbaugh reacting to the news that he's no longer part of an investment group trying to buy the st. louis rams. that's, of course, what we've been talking about all week. all sharpton and others coming out against it saying he shouldn't be allowed to be an owner. that may be a moot point now because the group he assembled to help buy the st. louis rams does not want to have the group anymore. and the nfl commissioner came out a couple of days ago and said limbaugh's comments are divisi divisive. we don't want a guy like that associated with our league. >> so al sharpton got what he wanted. >> and a lot of those comments weren't actually true. the comments we got the most of, people that were interviewed on our shows came in waving articles with quotes completely made up. mike barnicle, the dangerous thing is the media just flew right into it, just played right into it. >> they have a couple of players who indicated there would be trouble, you about i wouldn't put a lot of stock in terms of what pro football players think in terms of what they hear or read. it's tough to feel sorry for a guy who makes between $30 million and $50 million a year. but it's pretty dangerous when he's being excluded from doing things on a private basis, joining an investment group to buy a pro football team or pro baseball team baseded upon what you say. >> you know, michael moore has said some things that i found deeply offensive -- and i won't repeat them because it was four or five years ago, and let's just move on. a bigger point is, if michael moore decided he wanted to buy the detroit lions, i'd go, that might be fun. >> good for him. >> and who knows? maybe michael can turn the lions around. that would be great for detroit and great for michigan. >> it's about public opinion too. if you get people upset, people are going to shout and make a noise just like rush limbaugh does. he wound up sort of paying a price for having been pretty outrageous for a lot of stuff he said. i don't think it's a big free speech issue. i think it's an issue the other investors didn't want that around. >> they didn't want that around because people were going after him because of his politics. >> he got a bad press. that happens all the time. >> the investment group led by dave, who used to run madison square garden, clearly felt they had no shot at getting the team with him in the group. >> it's happened before to people. their reputation goes ahead of them. >> the miami dolphins have as part of their investment group, two or three big entertainers, gloria estefan, marc anthony, et cetera. what if i don't like gloria estefan songs? >> this group actually wanted rush limbaugh to be a part of it. it wasn't until people started waving their arms and screaming and yelling that it became a problem. >> i'm trying to whip up free speech feelings, but i just don't have them towards rush. >> it's not about rush limbaugh. >> i agree with mike, but i do think there's a bigger issue here. can we just scream people down? >> that's the point. willie, i love pat o'brien yesterday saying, do we really want to talk about nfl owners and what their views are? i will guarantee you nfl owners, they're an interesting lot. a lot have said worse daily behind closed doors than what limbaugh says to 20 million people. >> a lot of them share limbaugh's -- i don't know if it's his racial views, but conservative views. they're rich old white guys, a lot of them. if you look at the other side, why would the nfl want in their ownership -- and they do, they have the right to decline -- to have them in their league who's advised their product day in and day out. you have it every day in the nba, mark cuban, he's very vocal. he rips the refs at every chance. >> they'd love to bounce him out, wouldn't they? >> they would. if you look at it from a business standpoint, the nfl saying, why are we bringing this guy close to us? if you listen to the radio show and a guy saying they look like bloods and crips, like criminals. do you want that guy in their league? >> mark cuban is very vocal about the nba officials and other things. >> because they're lousy. >> but when cuban indicated he had an interesting in buying the chicago cubs baseball team, major league baseball made it known very clearly and very quickly to mark cuban, there's inform way. >> my favorite mark cuban story, after the refs really did screw the dallas mavericks, he went up to stern, shouted profanities and said, basically, your league, they cheat, you piece of you know what. you know how much he got fined? joey loves this story. you know how much he got fined for doing that publicly? zero. you know why? because they did. that was some of the worst officiating i've ever seen. again, i hate this. i think it's a chilling political speech. we're not talking about running the united nations. we're talking about running a football team. >> don't you think it's true that people have got to show a little more solidness in the face of criticism across the board. no one in the republican party sort of stands up and complains about the way things get said all the time. they just let it be said. it's like everyone is terrified of rush in the republican party. they don't ever want to take him on. people have become weenies across the board when bad stuff happens. why do they have to back down every time they get a whiff of controversy. >> again, it's almost impossible to feel badly for rush limbaugh. >> but clearly the group trying to buy this team decided we've got no chance of buying this team. >> al sharpton started this week, so al sharpton wins. it's not the first time. >> one of the things we were talking about last night with tina brown is the health care panel. obama's second challenge, financing the coverage and reducing medical cost inflation is much harder, both fiscally and politically, and it is here that the white house's help is needed. if obama steps up to that challenge and presses congress to include more of the delivery system reforms that are included in any of the pending bills, he could find himself signing a really significant law. if he succeeds, he will deserve the domestic equivalent of the nobel peace prize. >> well, he's not going to get it because there aren't those significant cuts. i agree with david broder. i support health care that sustains the system. but they're having trouble passing a bill that most sides call terrible. >> i think we're going to see a very big reassessment of obama in the next few weeks and months. i do think he's going to get some kind of health care reform through, and that is better than anything we've had before. i think there's a lot of feeling there's going to be a round two. but he has shown a kind of cool in the face of all of this crazy stuff that's been happening, and he's kept his eye on the ball. and i think he's going to get something. >> tina, before you go, we want to congratulate you on the first year anniversary of the daily beast. look at you in the financial times. >> the beast of new journalism. as i said at the top of the show, we celebrated the one-year anniversary with james carville. it was a lot of fun. >> we had a lot of fun. >> they basically say in the financial times, you may have created the new model for journalism in the 21st century. >> it's very exciting. we never believed we could be this far along. barry diller has been a fantastic partner. >> tina, thanks very much. coming up in a few minutes, the dow hits 10,000 again. does that make it okay for wall street to hand out record bonuses? no. we'll talk to cnbc's maria bartiromo. and former dnc chair howard dean about that. first, sports and willie's "news you can't use." >> howard dean said he would not support a bill that didn't have the public option in it. we'll see if he stands by his words. [ thunder rumbles ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor or visit massmutual.com. baseball fans, how about those new york yankees? wow. and people say to me, dave, what's the secret of the team? like i know. and i say, i think it's the manager, joe girardi. i think he's the secret to the success of the team this year because, think about it, he's the guy who made the trade for kate hudson. and everything is just -- >> she's been a good luck charm. we're going to keep her around for a while. tonight the league championship series begins. yankees don't play until tomorrow night. tonight you got your phillies and your dodgers. should be a really good series. fred's got a preview. >> thank you and good morning. what a difference a year makes for the l.a. dodgers' clayton kershaw. the 21-year-old pitcher worked out of the bullpen last year in the nlcs against the philadelphia phillies. this time around, he's the game one starter. >> i think i've grown up a lot since last year. i think i got the experience last year out of the bullpen. it's not obviously the same starting game one of the series or anything like that, but just to have the experience and get out there and pitch against them a little bit, it's definitely going to help me out. >> left-hander cole hamels will take the mound for the phils. the starters haven't been a problem for the defending champs. it's their bullpen that's been the question. closer brad lidge blew 11 saves this season. charlie manuel is in no rush to name lidge as closer. >> i don't want to say one guy is glling to be the closer on our team yet. i don't feel like i have to do that. i feel like the guys on our team accept when i'm going to put them in the game. madson and lidge and all those guys, they're going to get all the work they want. >> game one of the national league championship series tonight at 8:00 eastern. boise state got all they could handle. the golden hurricanes with a little trickery in the first quarter with an option to a.j. whit more in front of a wide open. boise state isn't ranked fifth in the nation for nothing. they rallied off 20 straight. broncos up by one. they went on to win 28-21. soccer, usa hosting costa rica at rfk stadium. fans showed their support for charlie davies injured in a car accident earlier in the week. u.s. down 2-1 in stoppage time. when jonathan boorstein headed in the equalizer. u.s. and costa rica played to a 2-it tie. basketball, kevin garnett said his knees were fine. ran the length of the floor and finished with an alley-oop layup. krelts open the season against lebron james and the cavs a week from tuesday. speaking of lebron, we know he's amazing on the basketball court, but this is ridiculous. farmers in ohio carved out a corn maze on their nine acre ranch of lebron dunking a basketball. a gold medal and an mvp award are nice, but you know you've made it when you're immortalized in corn. >> there's actually a mike barnicle corn maze outside of boston. nice tribute to mike. coming up, "news you can't use" and a story you can't miss. woman walks into a burlington coat factory and says, i just won the lottery. coats are on me. a riot ensues. but there was a little bit of a problem. we'll tell you when you come back. you like your health coverage, but worry what happens... if you get sick, or change jobs. 8 ways reform matters to you. a cap on deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. no annual or lifetime limits on coverage. preventive care. covered. pre-existing conditions. covered. no higher rates due to gender. extended coverage for young adults. no more coverage denied if you get sick. and guaranteed renewal, even if you do. call your senators today. oh, yes. >> willie. time for the news you can't use. this is a great story out of columbus, ohio. this woman pulls up to a burlington coat factory. by the way, no finer place to buy a discount coat. incredible selectiveness. she pulls up to a burlington coat factory in a huge stretch hummer limousine. runs inside, i just won the lottery. all the coats are on me. take whatever you want. i'm buying. wasn't that really thoughtful? what happens is there's like a stampede. >> that's wonderful. like oprah. >> everyone is grabbing what they can get their hands on, bring them up to the register. turns out the police heard about the riot. they came in, and the woman said, i was just kidding. i didn't win the lottery. i just wanted to see if i could stir it up a little bit by pulling up to a coat factory in my stretch hummer limousine. she's been detained. >> why? >> she just wanted to have some fun. life is hard. you've got to have fun sometimes. >> twisted sense of humor. it happens. you know "30 rock" is back tonight. >> i love it. >> the premiere with tina fey, alec baldwin. she was on letterman last night. you think tina fey. she's cool. she's funny. she has everything going for her. you would think that growing up, that she had an easy time with the fellas. who wouldn't like tina fey? >> everybody loves tina fey. >> turns out it took her a while to, shall we say, find love. >> virgins into their 20s. it says here that various -- >> old virgins. >> it says here that you, tina fey, 20 -- >> we don't have to read that. >> 24. >> there's nothing wrong with that, is there? >> no. >> and -- >> couldn't give it away. couldn't give it away. >> that's just good christian values. >> yes, that's right. i don't know why people are -- >> or being homely. >> she says she was homely. >> or not going to work for dave. >> oh, my. >> good christian values, being homely, or if you're me, a little bit of both. >> it was a little bit of both. "30 rock" tonight. tina fey is the best. >> we've got to mention this. cal tan lou albano, one of the great figures in the history of wrestling, died yesterday at the age of 76. you'll remember him for wearing rubber bands in his beard. one of the great managers and wrestlers. really one of the best trash talkers we've ever had in wrestling. you might remember him when he made his big crossover move with cyndi up lauper in this video. ♪ >> captain lou albano, a good man, dead at the age of 76. >> let's just file that one under the awful grace of god, drip by drip. >> i don't know what to say, willie. >> i love captain lou. that's what i will say. his brother, carl albano, was my driver's ed teacher in high school. everyone wanted to get in the class because they thought somehow you would meet captain lou. >> you know who else was taught by that driver's ed teacher? howard dean. he's been standing by and is fascinated by this discussion. >> hope he doesn't leave. howard, please don't leave. >> is it okay to love a man as much as i love howard dean? because i feel guilty about it. >> it's a little weird. >> i know it makes everybody uncomfortable, but come on, he's from vermont. i'm from northwest florida. >> that's funny. maria bartiromo is also at the table. >> hey, maria. love you too. >> top of the hour. i don't know what just happened. let's look at the news. >> try to read this straight. >> thanks. marking a milestone to the nation's economic recovery, this morning the dow jones will open above 10,000 for the first time in more than a year. >> yay. oh, wait, it has no impact on americans. i'm sorry. >> all right now. let's get this straight. big earnings from jp morgan helped push markets higher across the board. today asian markets following the trend with stocks there at a 14-month high. and president obama is welcoming the news from wall street while acknowledging the job market still has a long way to go. >> here's the bottom line. we're moving forward on a number of economic front, and we're going to continue to explore each and every avenue that i can think of that will lead to job creation and economic growth, and we are going to keep on going until we make sure that every single l american in this country who's looking for work is going to be able to get the kind of well-paying job that supports their families. >> i think, maria bartiromo, what we need to look at is the reality here, which is stadata a number of different levels. president obama is calling for a new burst of payments to more than 50 million americans on social security. the one-time payment of $250 aims to compensate seniors who will not be receiving a cost of living adjustment next year. that's because the recession is keeping prices down. the white house plan would cost the government about $13 billion. >> right. i'm sure the president is doing this for all the right reasons, but i also am sure it helps the president a bit because his health care reform plan is going to be extremely unpopular with seniors, and they're going to be seeing commercials talking about big cuts in medicare advantage. this comes at -- again, i'm sure it's all serendipity, but it comes at a good time for the president, giving away money to seniors. >> while president obama continues to hold a steady approval rating, a new gallup poll shows he is less popular than his secretary of state. hillary clinton has a 62% favorability rating, six points higher than the president. sharp reversal from january when obama topped clinton by 13 points. still the secretary of state is dismissing any talk of an ongoing rivalry. >> he said, i want you to be my secretary of state, and i said, oh, no, you don't. but we kept talking. i finally began thinking, look, if i had won and i had called him, i would have wanted him to say yes. and i'm pretty old fashioned, and it's just who i am. so at the end of the day when your president asks you to serve, you say yes if you can. >> would you have called him? >> absolutely. absolutely. oh, of course. in pakistan at least 37 people are dead today after teams of militants and a suicide bomber attacked a security site in the eastern city of lahore. the coordinateded strikes lasted for more than an hour in what officials are calling a guerrilla war. the taliban has vowed to launch waves of attacks as the government clamps down on militant strongholds. according to the washington times, treasury secretary tim geithner is facing the challenge of not only leading recovery efforts he's doing it without a full staff. >> unbelievable. >> still nearly nine months after president obama took office, more than 15 of the highest level positions in the treasury are still not filled. although it's not unusual from other administrations, the recession is putting extraordinary strain on the department. >> you know, i'm just looking at the newspapers. by the way, we had "the new york times" story earlier today, they're not going to sell "the boston globe" because "the boston globe" is doing well. this used to be the most read newspaper in america daily. it was overtaken, according to reports yesterday, by this newspaper. "the wall street journal" now the most read newspaper in america, which is very interesting. what's going on with "the boston globe" and "the new york times"? is the globe doing better? >> it's not doing better. but the times extracted so many savings in dealing with the unions, paring back union costs and everything, that they can lose less money than they were losing. and i think they, like a lot of people in this country, looking at the economy, thinking there might be a slight rebound here. advertising dollars might come back a bit slowly. but will come back nonetheless. so they decided to keep it for, i would say, a while, maybe a year or two. >> and see what happens. with us now, the anchor of cnbc's closing bell and the host of the wall street journal report, maria bartiromo. and in washington, former governor of vermont and former chairman of the dnc, howard dean. also the author of "howard dean's prescription for real healthcare reform." maria, we'll start with you. the dow over 10,000. am i fair to say that's going to have no effect on americans? >> there is a wealth effect. people are richer. even if you don't cash out and collect the money, you do have more money on paper. there is something positive about the stock market rising. >> people's 401(k)s. >> people's 401(k)s and large institution holders and individual holders, you have nor more money. there is a wealth effect. you feel richer. at times you will spend more. it's a positive. >> howard dean, do you feel better this morning because the dow is over 10,000? >> the stock market has predicted 10 out of the last 4 increases in wealth. i think it's better at 10,000 than 6,000. people haven't given up on the economy. i still continue to think there's going to be a dip, but certainly not back -- i for a long time thought we were going to go back and test the lows. i think that's going to be hard to do unless something really awful happens. >> let's talk about health care reform for a minute, dr. dean. you've obviously written a book about it, and you've lived it your entire life as a doctor. you had said earlier you couldn't support a health care bill that didn't have a public option. does that mean if you would have been on the finance committee yesterday or the day before, you would have voted against the baucus bill? >> i would have. from a procedural point of view, it makes sense to move the bill along. it gives several billion dollars of the taxpayers' money to the insurance industry. this is not health care reform. if you want to see what's going to happen, you can look at massachusetts. massachusetts has a system very much like what's in the baucus bill. the number of uninsured people in massachusetts has dropped dramatically, but the finances are completely out of control. >> mike barnicle, you've told us it's a mess up there. in massachusetts the costs have exploded. >> governor dean is absolutely right. on paper it looks great. the number of uninsured have dropped precipitously, but the state budget is exploding as a result of the legislation. >> i saw, maria, the other day wall street collapsed as the insurance industry -- the insurance companies collapsed as the insurance industry put out a report saying they were going to have to increase costs for people buying health care insurance. >> no doubt about it. i think the insurance companies in any scenario are going to be the ones that get hit, and a lot of people feel that, if we were to get legislation early next year, we're going to see the insurance business become smaller as an industry, and we're also going to see those companies face higher expenses. so that's why every time you hear talk about any legislation and the bill getting closer and progressing, you see the insurance companies take a hit. >> you know, mika, i think costs are going to go up. >> they have to. >> but i think they're going to go up regardless whether we pass health care reform or not because health care costs are exploding. >> dr. dean, or howard, why don't we ask him. whatever health care reform plan takes shape is going to cost in some way. are we getting an honest report from congress and the president on that? >> i think the cbo, within the confines of what they do, they're honest. sometimes they make republicans mad and sometimes they make democrats mad, but they do their best. they have specific rules the way they cost things out. that was one of the bright spots of the baucus bill, that it's actually paid for. . look, i don't want to beat the usual drum, but i will for a second. you've got to have a public option. give americans the choice between two systems and let them choose. if you do, the american people will reform health care. congress is not going to reform health care. you're going to give the american people a chance to reform health care if you give them a choice. >> you talked about the cbo, the congressional budget office, which came out with a study saying americans would save $54 billion in tort reform is enacted as a part of this bill. don't democrats in washington, d.c., look silly when they talk about health care reform and stay as far away from real tort reform as they have in this debate. >> we should be fair. if you want tort reform, you've got to do it at state level. probably 95% of all the tort actions against medical facilities are not ever filed in the federal court. to think the federal government is going to go in the state constitutions and change them around, i think, is unfair to the american people. >> governor, i used to say that, but the fact is this is a national crisis. if anything impacts interstate commerce, it's health care costs. it's 18% of our economy. we've got to look at it wholistically. we can't allow a state legislature like mississippi five years ago, six years ago, ten years ago to be a place where there's forum shopping and everybody goes there. we have to have a nationalized tort reform, approach to tort reform, don't we? >> this is not a universal problem. it's a universal problem for three or four special advertise -- neurosurgery, anesthesiology, obstetrics, maybe ophthalmology surgeries. everywhere you go, those premiums are too high there, and they're a big problem. but in a lot of states for primary care people, the premiums are not too high. some of them have done tort reform. some of them like mine never have to do that because we don't have juries who make those kinds of awards. >> why do democrats like to federalize their shoes, but in this case you're talking about states' rights here? >> because you can't -- the supreme court would rule that the government doesn't have a right to overrule the state constitution except in rare circumstances, where this clearly -- it's clearly at odds with the federal constitution. so this is a state issue, and it's going to have to be resolved at the state level. >> i disagree. >> okay. >> i do. try the supreme court. you look at how this impacts commerce across the country. you're talking about 16%, 18% of the costs that are shouldered by our economy. i just can't believe this isn't an important enough issue. the cost of medicine that is practiced is staggering. i know this as a lawyer who actually defended doctors on appeal. a doctor can get hit with a $500 million jury verdict. even if he wins on appeal after two, three, five years, it's destroyed his practice. >> that's why you see fewer and fewer doctors who want to go through the long haul of medical school unless this is addressed. >> that had to be a florida case unless you were practicing in federal court. congress has no say in it. i agree. there are solutions. i had put one out in my campaign for arbitration and allowing the verdict and the arbitration panel to go to the jury. i think that would certainly have an effect on what happens without removing people's right to a jury trial. there are things you can do. but i think the states -- and some of the states have stepped up and done some and some haven't. >> mike, what do you think about tort reform? in this debate and not hearing about it enough in this debate. >> well, i think a couple of things. i think, "a," the democrats have run away from tort reform for far too long. >> why? >> because they get an enormous amount of money from lawyers -- >> and the lobbyists. >> campaign fund-raising. but i'm inclined to agree with the governor, that you have to do it on the state level. that's where it happens in state courts. that's where people file against the doctors. as a result of the threat of no tort reform, you go in to see a doctor, 25, 40 years ago, take an aspirin and go home. you're going to be okay. now the doctor will give you a battery of five tests to cover himself in case you gets sued. >> by the way, we have a special guest with us here. michael moore, of course, is a documentary filmmaker, who's latest film "capitalism, a love story," is in theaters now. i ran into him. where were we? san francisco. i ran into michael moore in san francisco. tall guy. >> yes, very. >> you see a lot of people on tv, and they wind up being 5'4" and you're disappointed. michael moore -- >> no disappointment there. >> we just asked howard dean, if he were on the finance committee, would he have he voted for the baucus bill a couple of days ago. he said he wouldn't. let me ask you the same question. if you were on the finance committee, could you support this health care reform bill that's in the senate now? >> no, this bill is worse than the status quo. this is a huge, big wet kiss to the health insurance industry, and it's just deplorable that it comes from somebody who calls himself a democrat. i understand why a lot of the democrats voted for it on the committee because they're just desperate to get anything out there on the floor and then hopefully they can put amendments on it and they can get it right. but i'm not -- i'm very unhappy with this. can i just point out one reason why? the new bill says, we're going to get rid of insurance companies being able to deny people help because they have a preexisting condition. right. that's what it says. what's the fine that thinker proposing if an insurance company does this? what is it, like something like $5,000 per incident? i mean, the insurance companies are going to go, gee, should we pay for this person's $50,000 operation or take the $5,000 fine? it's a travesty. the democrats pushing it should be embarrassed. and everybody should get behind keith olbermann's plan to hold these free clinics in the states where these senators, these so-called democratic senators are blocking the true kind of health care reform that president obama and others who support single payer want. >> this is a perfect day to have you on, of course. we've been talking about what happened on wall street yesterday. the dow hits 10,000. >> i haven't come down yet. i've just been partying all night. 10,000. i mean, you know. >> happy days are here again. let's pop the champagne. >> it's so incredible. 15 million people out of work. >> isn't this a great example for you? isn't this a great example of what you're trying to say, how there's a disconnect between what's going on on wall street, 10,000, and on main street, 10% unemployment? >> it's not a disconnect. it's connect very well. it's connected just the way our economic system is set up. it's set up so that the pyramid scheme that we call capitalism has become a pyramid scheme now. the very few at the top get away like bandits, making billions and billions of dollars, and everybody else in the lower parts of the pyramid are told to work really hard and maybe someday they can come up and be on top of the pyramid too. guess what? there's only a few people that can sit on top of the pyramid. i mean, it's just -- it's so revolting and so immoral. we live in a country, the wealthiest country on earth, 15 million people unemployed. one in every eight homes right now is in foreclosure or delinquency. and they're celebrating on wall street, and they're paying each other bonuses? >> i couldn't agree more. >> last night mika and i were at the 92nd street y, and actually christopher buckley, conservative christopher buckley said, aristotle said there should be a four-to-one ratio between the best paid and the worst paid. he said our system has maybe 500-to-1 ratio. it seems the ratio between the richest and the lightest gets more and more. >> i agree with you, michael. morality should play a role, especially now when so many people are hurting. and these bonuses -- i think you would agree with this -- the latest round we reported yesterday just seem unacceptable right now. >> for instance, bank of america, we gave them about $30 billion of our tax money and t.a.r.p. money they got. guess how much they're handing out in bonuses? $30 billion. that's our money. this is absolute thievery. they shouldn't be handing out bonuses. they should be putting out warrants for arrest. a year later, and no one's been picked up. no one's been charged with anything. we, the american people, allow this to happen. in an hour or so, i don't know when they open up the congressional switchboard, but people should be calling their members of congress, burning that switchboard up, sending e-mails. call the hot line. the public comment is 202-156-1414. call and just say that's it. >> i have to insert here. on the one hand, i'm a big fan of michael's, but i have to disagree that capitalism is a pyramid scheme. i actually think that's absurd. on the bonuses, obviously compensation did get way out of hand on wall street and for some individuals at the top. i agree with that. let's not forget the millions and millions and millions of people who have benefiteded who have pensions, who have mutual funds, who are invested in this market and may not even know it, who have made a lot of money over the years. it's not necessarily just the people at the top making money when the market goes higher. that is also absurd. having said that, the compensation should not fall particularly in the wall street area and financial services firms. >> michael? >> no, i'm sorry. i understand what you just said. that was the old days during "leave it to beaver" and andy of mayberry. that is the way it used to work. here's how it is now. the wealthiest 1% right now in this country have more financial worth than the 95% under them combined. 1%, more than 95% combine. that's capitalism now. it's a system of legalized greed. it's way out of control. and when you talk about people and their pension funds, people watching this right now, nobody even knows if they're going to have a pension, what's going to happen to it. everybody is full of anxiety. people don't know if they're going to have a job next year. that's just not how you run a country. this isn't how you create the next great thing and put people to work when you've got everybody going around so full of fear and just not knowing what's going to happen and not knowing if they can pay the mortgage next month. i mean, there's a foreclosure filing once every 7 1/2 seconds in this country right now. >> let's go back and see who is overseeing all of this. there is a structure in place and there has been a structure in place in terms of regulating the banks, in terms of overseeing the risks. >> there is no structure. >> you can't just say, oh, these guys were just given the go ahead to do whatever they want. who is watching the store in terms of the regulatory environment overseeing the financial services. >> isn't that the problem, though? cox at the s.e.c. had a complete hands off approach. we republicans for too long were confused. i think this is important that republicans, that conservatives get their arms around this. >> absolutely. >> because i finally have. we campaign, and we talk to small businesses who are hurting that have all these really stupid regulations put on them. so we have -- we throw this blanket over all regulation. we're against regulation. >> right. >> that's true. >> and we let wall street go wild. we have a crash in '87, '88, '99, 2000. worldcom in 2001, enron 2002. and 2004 we've got fannie and freddie collapsing. 2008, everything collapses. you can be against regulation with small businesses. you can help people grow their businesses in michigan or pensacola, florida, but i think we all need to grow up. understand we've got to be tough on wall street. we've got to regulate. >> that's a great point. can i just say that, first of all, don't just beat up yourself for being republican. it's the democrats too. this went on under clinton. >> oh, sure. a lot of this started in '99. >> right. and before that, of course, all the deregulation ideas started back during reagan. but right now here's -- you're right. they used the cover of, oh, the poor small businessman has too much red tape to go through. that's true. but the reality is that the top seven banks right now have 75% of all the banking assets in this country. whereas the 7,000 community banks, the small banks in this country, they lost nearly $3 billion last year. okay. that's not true, though, with the big boys. the ones that took our t.a.r.p. money. and i tell people, if you have money in any of these banks that took t.a.r.p. money, take the money out. take the money out of those banks. don't reward them. don't ever trust your money with these people again. put it in a bank that didn't take t.a.r.p. money. put it in a credit union. just refuse to participate in this. >> michael moore, thank you so much for dropping by. let me just say, even though we disagree with each other politically about 99% of the time, if flint, michigan, is ever awarded an nfl football team, dammit, i want you to run it. all right, baby. >> i promise to do that, and i promise not to make any racist comments or take too much oxycontin. >> good. grand funk railroad lives. michael moore, thank you so much for being with us. >> howard dean, let me ask you. how do we balance this regulatory deal? you're a governor. you understood that you had to help small businesses in vermont and midsize businesses grow, but there's this delicate balance, and we haven't quite got it. democrats in the past have regulated too much. republicans haven't regulated enough. how do we thread that needle? >> it will be interesting to see what maria has to say about this. i think we have to do something special with big banks. i disagree with michael. the problem is capitalism isn't failing, the problem is we've lost the balance. capitalism works just like everything else, when you have a good balance. we have to have a special oversight for these big mega banks that are too big to fail because they are too big to fail. the taxpayers are always going to be at risk because they are this size. >> also, we've got rules on wall street that the most educated people in america that come around this table every morning don't understand. it has gotten too complicated, and we've got to figure out a way to break it down. >> comes from education. nobody ever teaches you this stuff as a child. >> it's interesting to me that the banks resist stuff like transparency, like exchanges with these derivatives and credit default swaps. they a they need to trade on open markets so everybody knows what they're doing. i know the banks don't like it, but that's going to be the price of having capitalism survive. >> thank you, howard. by the way, if there were billions and billions of dollars given to bank of america, i hope you get a big slice of it. >> i've got it right in my left hand pocket. lunch on t.a.r.p. money today. >> we'll talk to you on the radio 10:00 to noon. wnbcradio.com for more of that. chuck todd has been listening in on this conversation. >> chuck todd is here. going to be talking about rush limbaugh. >> he's going to be talking about the dodgers. >> oh, lord. >> and he's got a guarantee gamble. >> silly string as well. with us now senior white house correspondent and nbc senior director chuck todd. nbc's correspondent jake tapper said, if the dodgers win, he is going to grow a goatee. and if the phillies win, you are going to shave yours off. >> reporter: that's what he said. i'm just trying to figure this out. he's got to put a little more skin in the game. i think we're going to work something out with maybe we could have a plan "b." >> a soul patch. >> reporter: there is some thought i could just save this part, and he has to just grow that part. that would be helpful. by the way, are you aware that lee major, the $6 million man, is selling bionic hearing aids. this is the 21st century. god love him. god loves cable. >> i don't know if i would buy a bionic hearing aid from a man that trusted ryan o'neal with my wife. >> chuck, how cute are you? >> that's chuck without the goatee. let's put that picture up. in 1999 when this picture was taken on c-span, the goatee was actually in. in 2009, now that it's out, it's dated as a billy ray cyrus mullet, you've got a goatee. explain. >> he's a trendsetter. >> reporter: i'll tell you what, it might come back. i've got my rubber bands out. >> why is that? >> reporter: captain lou. maybe we can start using the rubber bands in the goatee. >> i need it to stop, please. >> the whole office is flush with rubber bands now that captain lou died. >> reporter: president obama heads to new orleans, and i think the most amazing part of this trip is how underplayed it's being. you know, new orleans was such the symbol frankly of the downfall of the republican party and the beginning of the rise of the democratic party, about competency in government. here the president, this new democratic president making his first trip down there, hasn't been there since february of 2008 before he was even the nominee of the party. it just sort of seems like there was a time when new orleans was the centerpiece of why the democrats believe they should be in power and why the republicans shouldn't be. it's just fascinating that today is so underplayed. >> talk about tone deaf. he's going to be in new orleans for a couple of hours, and then he's going to fly to san francisco for a dnc fund-raiser. i'm just curious. >> reporter: playing right into republican stereotypes of democrats, right? whenever they get a chance, jet off to san francisco to do fund-raising. >> did george w. bush's staff actually schedule the president today? this is as tone deaf as it gets. >> reporter: what i find interesting is you know who's in charge now. the republican governor bobby jindal has done nothing but praise this administration and what they've done on recovery efforts. what i find fascinating about today is the president's going to do a town hall. remember we saw all those town halls that he'd done before. i think in all of them but one, it was only democratic officials in attendance. well, at this one, bobby jindal's going. it's one of those rare occasions where we're actually seeing leaders from both parties appearing together at a town hall. that in itself is an interesting picture. >> by the way, people see bobby jindal on the national stage. this guy started as a kid in liu government. he was unbelievably effective. forget ideology, just effective in what he did. i remember during hurricane katrina, i started criticizing republicans before anybody else on the slow response. one of the only other republicans out there who would do it? bobby jindal, and one other name, david vitter. people are asking, why is david vitter surviving this scandal that he had? it's because vitter was one of the first guys out there telling the bush administration, wake up. you guys are not taking care of our people. and mary landrieu, the same. >> reporter: on vitter, i would just say this. he doesn't face the voters. he has yet to face the voters. i wouldn't assume anything yet. >> he's got better approval ratings than harry reid. >> reporter: well, that's true right now, but i wouldn't -- don't assume vitter. we watched what happened to tim hutchison in arkansas. we all thought he survived his sex scandal and found out four years later, voters showed up, he did not. so i think vitter's still got a long way to go. >> the bigger point, bobby jindal took care of people in louisiana and was rewarded for it. >> chuck, thanks very much. why is lubriderm® daily moisture a favorite among dermatologists? one reason, lubriderm® daily moisture contains the same nutrients naturally found in healthy skin. lubriderm® moisture matches the moisture in your skin. skin accepts it better. absorbs it better. and has its natural balance restored for a clinically shown 24 hours. for skin that looks and feels truly comfortable. dermatologist developed lubriderm®. your moisture matched. go online to save $2 on lubriderm ® products like new intense skin repair ointment hi! trick or treat. weren't you guys just here? 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we're ally, a new bank who always gives you a great rate, with nothing buried in the fine print. it's just the right thing to do. the front page of this morning's new york times says u.s. math tests find slim gains across the state of new york, according to federal test scores released yesterday. however, it's not all bad news. for example, 100% of the eighth graders at new york city's harlem village academies are proficient in their math skills. >> amazing. >> that's where i spent the day yesterday with the founder and ceo of harlem village academies, dr. debra kenny. she joins us now. it's a remarkable story. i went in there. you took me to fifth graders first. >> right. >> and these fifth graders, as they come into your school, they can't add. they can't subtract. they can't multiply for the most part. it's a first grade level in math proficiency. they leave a couple of years later, it's unbelievable. 100% math proficiency. >> how do you do it? >> if you had to answer in one word, the word would be teachers, and everybody knows and understands this now. they didn't understand it 10 or 20 years ago that teacher quality is the be all, end all answer. >> how do you get the teachers -- i walked room to room. there were young teachers. it was like a commercial for teaching. they were so excited. >> exactly. >> how do you get great teachers at this school? >> that's exactly the issue. we have to create a culture at the school that attracts people to it and keeps people excited and supports them. you create a culture in your school that supports great teaching. and it's also a culture of accountability. so people know that we're going to be looking not at what did i teach but at what did the kids learn every day. >> these kids come from some of the most economically disadvantageded families in new york. and probably america. and yet, again, at your school, 100% proficiency in math. this is a story that america needs to know about. >> that can be the case everywhere, and it should be. we're excited because the president and the new secretary of education are setting the bar and saying, it should be that way everywhere, and it can be. >> one thing that they're doing -- first of all, joe klein is really leading the effort, the new york schools chancellor, towards charter schools. one way to do it is to approach teaching the way you approach a business. that is, accountability, monitoring the teachers, using technology toward that effort, and also being able to put your best players on the field. in business, that's what you do. you put the best people around you. >> you can't do that in too many schools. >> they're doing it in charter schools. >> it a teacher succeeds, you can reward them. if a teacher doesn't fit into this culture, they can move on. you have the power to move them out and bring somebody better in. >> that's correct. there's this culture of accountability. there is absolutely reward -- >> accountability for students and accountability for teachers. >> and teachers. >> for everybody. >> and for principals and for everyone talk to bottom. and so the culture of accountability actually attracts really smart, passionate, intelligent people who believe in themselves and who are excited about teaching. >> so explain more about how you do this and how behavior -- you get these kids. they are high risk. they have issues, and they have a long way to go academically. and you get them to the level where you've gotten these incredible scores back. does it start with just educating them? how do you weave in dealing with the behavioral aspect of things? >> i think that's an issue everywhere. i don't think it's just in harlem. i think behavior is an issue across the country and across the socioeconomic spectrum. it's really about teaching kids character expectations from the very beginning. it's not only behavior, which is a matter of habits. as we talked about, looking at someone when they're speaking and being respectful. but it's also about character. you know, we try to instill in the kids a passion for are learning. we try to instill in them it's not just about here are rules and you have to follow all the rules. but how will all of these habits help new life? >> let me tell you. i've been in because, when i was in congress, i went and spoke to classes. i bet i've spoken to hundreds of classrooms. the second i walked into this classroom, i knew it was different. here we had 30 kids, 35 kids, eighth graders, who i said as i went in, that's the worst year. middle schoolers are the hardest people to talk to. they're not paying attention. >> you didn't have any trouble tackling one of them. >> i tackled them all. he said he wanted to be a power forward. i said, baby, come take me on. so anyway, as i was speaking to this class, all 30 eyes on me. if one eye wandered, you stood up. and she'd have these techniques, and she'd go like this. and then that student would make eye contact. if their head slumped down, she'd go like this, better look up. they behaved better than any eighth grade class i've ever spoken to, and i've spoken to tons of eighth grade classes. >> and there is a lot of this going on in the city. i told you my mom works at harlem academy. one of my best friends helped found the new york harbor school. what do you say to schools who don't have a deborah kenny or struggling with public schools, struggling with financial problems. how do you do what you've done there at these other schools? >> it's interesting you both were talking about new york city. i think new york has led the way. we're incredibly lucky because we have a mayor who gets it, and we have a mayor who decides i'm going to take a leadership role. >> is it bloomberg and klein? are they the major stories here? >> so is klein. >> exactly. >> but you're excited about barack obama too, aren't you? that barack obama is saying all the right things. that his secretary of education, arne duncan, these guys seem to get it too. >> this is a crisis. we have to get it. this is unbelievable that education is so weak in this country. we're hit with a crisis right now. >> can you imagine if schools in harlem and south central l.a. and gary, indiana, could start scoring 100% in math proficiency? is that won't just change the inner cities of america, that will change america. >> that's exactly right. it's a moral outrage we allow this to go on. it's not like cancer where there's no cure. we know how to educate children. we know exactly what to do. we know that it works. we know that children of any socioeconomic level can be educated at the highest level. i'm not talking just about passing a test. people get all excited about 100% passing a test. i'm talking about passionate, engaging, high quality instruction. it can happen here. >> special interests -- and we've all said it around the table -- need to get out of the way. it's got to be about helping these kids. if we make children the priority like you guys have done at your school, instead of making education a jobs program, this can happen everywhere. it can. >> dr. kenny, thank you so much for coming in. great work. >> we'll all go out there. >> i would love to. (announcer) we call it the american renewal because we believe that ideas are limitless. that's why, everyday at ge, thousands of scientists and researchers at our global research centers and throughout the company are redefining what's possible by creating the advanced technologies that create jobs. the american renewal is happening right now. we are moving in the right direction. our economy is in better shape today than it was when i took office. >> the other day, the american people are looking at the stock market in terms of putting food on the table. they want jobs, and they want them now. >> with us now, the editor in chief of the economist magazine. starting today in new york, the economist is hosting the buttonwood gathering, named after the original tree on wall street where traders met. it's a forum to discuss fixing the global financial system. among the many guest speakers, tim geithner, larry summers, and our very own maria bartiromo. >> how do we fix this? >> that ought to be good. >> you bring in geithner, larry summers, and maria. >> so what do you expect? >> i think it's one of those efforts to try and open finance up. i think it's partly about bringing together some of the wall street people. we've also got students coming. we've got people coming who have got nothing to do with finance. i think that's what finance needs at the moment. you've got the dow at 10,000, bonuses at record levels again, and yet you've got unemployment at 10%. you can see people hurting. i think the big thing is people don't understand it. >> we talk about transparency. how about simplicity? why is it some of the best minds in america sit around this table and have no idea what happened on september 15th? >> i think what happened is people had a good idea that things were overvalued, but they didn't sense quite the scale of the problem. it has to do with people not understanding the product. it wasn't just the general product, it was the people at the very top of institutions. >> how would you characterize the national sense of confidence in the national finance system right now? >> very low. >> and how do we restore it. >> some of it has to do with explaining it. you find out that maria was doing it, with that wall, that objective view, and you find out that we have done a good job at some things. >> i think one issue that we're all talking about over and over again is unemployment and how this is really the main issue in terms of getting this recovery back on track. and the problem is that there's a lag time. it takes time between the time that somebody loses their jobs and stops paying their bills, and so muches paying the mortgage, leading to a default and leading to a foreclosure. and we can't find an end to this. and people are excited about the dow at 10,000. but the fundamentals really have not kept pace. >> i don't think there's an element where the market's always rebounded a bit too much. there's elements of we're not having the depression recovery at the moment. >> judging from your accent, you're not from alabama. >> no. >> can you explain why americans don't fear inflation the way they should w the dollar collapsing, should we not be scared to death of inflation right now? if you're worried about the economy really tanking. if you don't deal with these problems, if you don't get money into the system. you can end up with years of deflation. you have the slightest hint of deflation, you have to keep stimulating. do you think there will be another stimulus package. >> the bulk of the money is being paid out now. it's a very difficult balancing act. if you're optimistic, who's pushing the dow to 10,000 higher. you have to notice that the people in washington know how to fight inflation, try to help banks to get money out to the system, it's trying to pull capital away from them. >> tell us what you have to accomplish today. >> it's an element of bringing people and getting them to talk. you want to get bankers to understand what people outside feel. you also want people outside to go through the website. going to places like marias. you want people on the outside trying to understand some of the bad things. it's that level of incomprehension which you talked about at the beginning. >> john, thank you so much. great to have you, hope you'll come back. >> i would love to. >> up next an exclusive look at the new cover of "time" magazine with managing editor richard stengel. you're watching "morning joe" brought to you by starbucks. they say imports always get the best mileage. well, do they know this malibu offers an epa estimated 33 mpg highway? 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>> i did. >> you did great work adding up to that constitutional. >> national constitution. i love philadelphia, it's a great place to live, great place to raise a family. the constitutional center is a great national institution. >> it really is and you walk into that room where you've got all the people that helped draft the constitution, life size figures. >> life size figures so you stand up next to george washington and he's about your height, joe, and you see how he dominated that room and martha is next to him. >> i see that dillon is here. >> he just kind of snuck. >> i didn't see you. let me give you a kiss. you're looking lovely. >> right off his ankle bracelet and made it on set. >> with my teeth, i chewed it off this morning. >> if you ever get an ankle brace le bracelet, let me know. >> time for news. >> time for a look at the today's top stories. for the first time in a year, the dow jones is back above the 10,000 mark. unemployment continues to creep toward double digits. earlier on "morning joe," filmmaker michael moore discusses those two figures while comparing capitalism to a pyramid scheme. >> the very few at the top get away like bandits, making billions and billions of dollars and everybody else in the lower parts of pyramid are told to work really hard and maybe they can sit on top of the pyramid too. but there's only a few people who can sit on top of the pyramid. and it's so revoting and so immoral, when we live in the wealthiest country on earth, 15 million people unemployed. one in eight homes right now is in foreclosure or beginning gde and they're celebrating on wall street and they're paying each other bonuses. >> we used to host the closing bell 20g9 and she used to lean over and say this is a ponzi scheme. only at commercial. >> by the way, i said, i said it was absurd and i would like to know what mile mooichael moore doing with the proceeds of that movie, that's capitalism. >> capitalism, again, it's an ideal world, capitalism is an ideal world. and you know this as well as i do. has investors competing to invest. it's crazy, trying to put money into the economy, so that people can create things, jobs, it's madness, and then innovators competing to get that madness, okay my idea is the best, give it to me. that's capitalism, that's what you want. here's what happens. >> in 50 seconds or less. >> they switched the game, and instead of making money over time, which is hard to do. they created all these offmarket, offexchange, markets called credit derivatives. some of which are a great bay to perpetrate insurance fraud and they started taking money out of the economy. it was like a leaf blower sucking the money out. >> and they were paying based on profits that actually were not realized. >> they're using $24 million in taxpayer money. >> by the way, the money that citigroup got from the government, the government made huge money ona. so let's not forget that while the government put money into some of these banks, the government is going to make money on this. >> so you would be okay if i went to vegas on your checking account and made money, you wouldn't care? >> with us now, "time" magazine's managing editor is here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. of course msnbc's morning meeting, dillon rad began. >> nod off hiss ankle. >> -- gnawed it off his ankle. >> this is a wild and crazy group. >> cnbc know that the people on cnbc have this very, very radical view of capitalism. >> radical? you think it's radical? >> actually radical means going back to the roots. you both say that you should go back to the early economy, better than the modern derivative economy that we live in now. so the derivative economy is just a vehicle for steel. and rick has agreed to say that. >> he works across the street, every thursday he goes into his desk and he walks across the street wit. he comes up here. he puts it on the table. and he -- >> does he wear robes or anything? >> he tells us where -- >> listen to dan brown's voice. >> he tells us where "time" magazine is doing next week. >> no, our cover this week is a special national poll we did with the rockefeller foundation about the state of women in america and it's a national poll of more than 3,000 people, it's our women's issue and it is fascinating portrait of where american women are right now. >> love it. >> what is your stake? >> the headline is that american women after a long period of time of feeling disenchanted because they didn't feel equal now feel equal, but they feel the disenchanted and upset by this economy, by this idea that, hey, we now have a lot of equality in the workplace, women will be the majority of workers very soon. they get almost 60% of college degrees now, but they're reckoning with all of the issues that men have reckoned with all of these years about dealing with the uncertainty in the economy, about child care, about education. so there's kind of good news and bad news. women feel in some sense both more powerful and less secure at the same time. >> this is so on point, this cover of time because women right now are soaring. it's amazing to me that 60% of the higher degrees are going to women around the world. even in iran, they're all covered up, they're getting 60% of the higher degrees and men are dropping out. women want to do it all. they want to be the superperson, with the family, with the career. men are saying, you know what? this is too much, i'm out of here. and they are dropping out. >> there's a whole lot of other talents because there are, because of the women before us who have paved the way, more choices. and more things to balance. and i think that comes with -- >> and more choices that make you more happy. >> exactly. >> let's go through some of the findings in the poll, very interesting question. should women behave more like men to get ahead in the marketplace. talk about this number. >> one of the things i found interesting about our poll, whether you agree with the -- with the results, what you'll find is that men and women actually have an incredible amount of agreement on all of these issues, for example that, you know, that men agree that basically the battle of the sexes is over and that women won. women agree. that's the good news and the bad news. so there's this kind ofamaze -- >> and most disagree that women have to act more like men to be taken seriously. the next interesting question, are women harder to work for as bo boss? what are the poll results. >> the question is women believe, looking at this, 45% of women agree, and only 29% of men. maria, why is that? >> i don't know why that is. but i think there's a huge elephant in the room, that we're not discussing, huge. women are soaring, doing very well, going up the professional ladder, but are they now comparable to men as far as what they take overwhelm in compensation? no. so that's the elephant in the room. women are doing better, getting higher degrees, getting the corner office. but they're still under paid relative to men. >> thank god that that was the huge elephant in the room. >> but isn't that the irony in that as women have aspired to get ahead, and as men have been and as society has welcomed them in, it has also exploited them, saying i can pay you less. >> where are you, by the way. >> whatever it is, but you can pay them less to do the same job. >> they take time off to have babies, they take care of family, they come back, they're not paid as much. >> in 1972, men's average salary 46,000 median salary, women 27,000. in 2008, men 46,000 and women 35,000. and mika, you said several weeks ago that women were d proportionate paid less in the workplace because you can pay them less. >> women are getting better jobs and more in the workplace because we're cheaper and because we don't have to be paid as much for some reason and it's wrong. and it would be very interesting to take any company, any company and just open, transparency. hold on, and show the difference between the salaries men and women comparable jobs. it's a joke. >> until women negotiate for more salary, until women refuse to take the lower paying job, in other words isn't the onus on, it's not like people are running up to joe saying, let me give you more money, joe's just a pain in the neck and he negotiates until they pay him more. my point is that women are being exploited and you just go down the line, all the way to exporting inventory to china, companies will always take cheaper labor until the people start demanding more compensation. what do you think? >> i think honestly, companies should on many levels, everything from bonuses to moral responsibility, but also because it's right. >> women take time off, they take time off to have a baby, they take time off to take care of family and loved ones and then they come back, and the job was given to somebody else, they start at a lower level, they start at lower incomes. it's true about the fact that women are taking off. >> you know, i can tell, rick, that this issue is going to sell a lot. you hear the conversation around the table? i have never heard people as wired about a magazine cover. there's not interesting fact that in 1971, zero supreme court justices, zero cabinet members, zero governors. and zero ivy league presidents. now 2009 two supreme court justices, seven cabinet members, six governors, 2,396 fbi agents, and four ivy league presidents. it's kind of pathetic that we only have two supreme court justices out of nine. >> it's a huge improvement and one of those things that those statistics reveal about our poll is that women are actually not -- the feeling of equality is one that they feel like, well, we have won that battle already. and in a way, the consequences of that as yet, now we have equality, though not in terms of equal pay, but in terms of achievement, so now women are reckoning with some of those issues, like i don't feel that secure even though i have achieved all of this power. i don't feel, you know, very safe necessarily even though i'm in the corner office. >> everything you were describing, secure, safe is because they're not paid as much. they feel completely vulnerable still. >> it's shown that women are less happy than they have been in a couple of generations. >> would you be happy if you did a job and everyone around you who was a man got paid 18 times as much, would you feel safe? >> one of the things we have seen drg during the recession, a disproportionate number of jobs that have been lost over the last year or so are men's jobs, 70% or 80%. what would be interesting to look at is terms of the remuneration, is are those higher priced jobs that companies are getting rid of is because women are paid less or was it the type of jobs, rather than the gender. >> forget media companies for a minute. let's talk about wall street. do women on wall street feel -- and do women in fortune 500 companies feel like they're being paid the same amount they would be paid if they were a man? not on the jobs you're talking about. because you're talking about highly paid jobs on wall street. i do think that your average man on wall street and in business will make more than your average woman, but there are a lot of women that are making much more than some men. so it's really -- i don't know that there's an cross the board answer in terms of wall street. because the jobs you're talking about are highly paid. there are plenty of women on wall street making a lot of money and highly paid, and possibly higher paid than some of their male counterparts. but that's not across the board in business. >> i was just watching mika make evil eyes at me across the table. >> no evil eye. >> there haven't enough women's jobs. there aren't enough. >> women in hedge funds a tiny, tiny fraction, women are underrepresented in wall street. but in some of the categories they're overrepresented. but they tend to be lower paid categories. but the people who are negotiating the contracts. the people that are running the boards, it's a men's club, i don't care if you're talking about a fortune 500 company, a media company, but the good news is that from what "time" magazine is saying is that culture is changing. not enough, but we may be halfway there. >> women will become the majority of the workforce in the next few years. i mean what are the consequences of that? we don't know. i'll be working for you, i'll be asking for more salary. >> get used to it. coming up, arlington's buried secrets, a must watch on "morning joe." ( music playing ) get the taste of a home-cooked meal at work with new marie callender's home-style creations-- a delicious meal made fresh from your desk. just cook them, strain them, mix them. marie callender's home-style creations. a little touch of home for lunch. find them in the soup or pasta aisle. welcome back to "morning joe," salon national correspondent mark benjamin has conducted an extensive investigation on arlington national cemetery. it's amazing, this news, and he writes this, behind the pristine lawns, the dignity of and respect for arlington national cemetery or tattled, sadly arlington's internal problems have started on the grounds themselves. despite nearly 10 mens and countless dollars spernt on computerizing it's operations the cemetery still relies on mostly paper burial records that in some cases do not match the headstones. there are numerous examples of discrepancies that exist between burial maps, the physical location of headstone and the burial grave -- in a row moat area of the cemetery where 6 4u7b service members are iraq and afghanistan are laid to rest, personal mementos are left to rot out in the rain for days, workers with power washers or tloern into a trash bin. >> how bad is the situation right now at arlington? >> the situation is pretty bad, joe i must say and the other thing that just recently happened is now they are admitting that they are not doing such a good job of keeping track of exactly who is under each headstone, and in fact, just recently put up the first unknown headstone in response to our reporting over a grave since 1984. >> so they may be based on these reports, they may be burying the wrong soldiers or marines or sailors under the wrong headstones? >> horrifyingly, that seems to be the case. they're using these pieces of paper to keep track of where everybody is as opposed to computerized records like other cemeteries. they dug down to bury a service member recently and there was already somebody there, they don't know who it is and they don't seem particularly interested in finding out who it is. they put a headstone on there that said unknown and they don't be particularly worried bit. >> there may be a lot more soldiers buried in the wrong grave? >> that's right, the workers there say that this is a frighteningly common occurrence and that the concern is that if they dig this person up and it's joe snuffy and they figure out that it's joe snuffy and they realize that joe snuffy's headstone is already out there, then the obvious question is, well who's under that headstone. and if you dig that person up and that headstone is somewhere else, well, who's under that headstone,'s a chain reaction. >> how do they not get this right? >> it's a good question and i would like to ask that question. given the state of the dna and the recovery remains, we have in hawaii the greatest dna facility ever, how does it happen that arlington national cemetery which is a treasure in and of itself, that this is allowed to go on. is it the top management? is it one person? is it the collective bureaucracy, how does that happen? >> the top management has spent 60 million that would track graves by satellite, just like a lot of cemeteries, have done much quicker and with a lot less money, the cemetery just can't seem to pull it off. the cemetery management keeps paying the same group of contractors who are very close to some of the top management there and they don't get anything done. and so, yeah, it just seems to go on and on and on. and now we're seeing a situation where, yes, they do not know who is underneath some of these headstones. >> the other, it would seem to be a rather common sensical question, given the way military funerals are conducted, with many members of the military buried in their uniforms, why is it not possible for this unknown soldier to get the casket up, exhume the body, take some dna, or take a look at the uniform? >> such a good question, and you mentioned this wonderful program that the military has. one of the reasons we haven't buried an unknown in 25 years, we just have basically the military has committed to not doing that anymore. they fly around 50 missions a year to go to vietnam and laos and korea and germany to dig up fragments of bones and they will not bury those people as unknowns. they work very, very hard to do these dna analysises to figure out who these people are, so they don't have to do this anymore. and the fact that the military is just unwilling to go out with a backhoe to figure out who this person is and use google to figure it out. maybe they don't want to know who it is because then they would have to dig up the next person, and the next person, and the next person, it's a can of worms they don't want to get into. >> if they made one mistake, it's a chain reaction, and how far does that chain reaction go? >> i don't know the answer to that, but i would pose another question in a way, which is that obviously the military has got on so much better at this over the decades. if you go back to the worst war in our history. the civil war, i don't know the answer to that, but the majority of them were buried in unmarked graves. we have gotten so much better at this than we were before. aren't we talking about a very small percentage of guys who may be buried in the wrong place? >> the answer frighteningly is we don't know. when i went to the cemetery and said, look, you know, the workers are saying that because you failed to computerize your operations you don't know where everybody is, and they said, yes, we do, we know that all the headstones are on top of the same people. i said here's one, you don't know who's here, they said, no, no, no, that's the only one. now they're saying if that's the only one, we don't want to dig that guy up, even though we'll go to vietnam and dig people out of the dirt and save their dna and we won't bury them as an unknown, we're just going to stick a marble head stone here and call this one unknown, it's just an anomaly. >> thank you very much for bringing this to light. >> coming up, big earnings reports out from goldman-sachs. erin burnett after the break. plus rush limbaugh denied in his action to buy an informal team. ♪ (announcer) thanks to our everyday low prices, halloween costs less at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. but i wasn't ready to give up taste. sometimes, sacrifice is the name of the game. well i've heard eating whole grain oats can help lower my cholesterol. it's going to be a challenge... sure we want to lower our cholesterol, but let's be real, being healthy is tough yea (announcer) honey nut cheerios cereal tastes great and can help lower cholesterol. be happy. be healthy. 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>> ordinary people have not participated as much as some of the institutions, i would say the money on the sidelines is probably institutional, meaning hedge funds, big institutional holders. inspected money is a little bit, but you're not seeing the kind of participation you would like to feel that this market has legs. >> the numbers out there, new jobless claims falling unexpectedly, 514,000, continuing claims, what is it, chris? >> falling below $6 million. >> i think unemployment is still an issue, even though jobless claims are down. this is a weekly number. i still think unemployment is going to be a problem. and that's one of the cruxes of this economic recovery. the fact that we're not seeing job creation, we're not going to see job creation until well into 2010 if we do. and the market is up despite that. and that's why i feel like, and a lot of people feel like this market could be in store for a pull back. >> is there a sense on wall street that the market gets 10,000, off the highs of 14,000 a year and a half ago, is there a sense that there might be a new there there for the dow high? it might be 10,000 or 11,000? >> i think that people feel like the market is going to stay strong because of the momentum in the market right now. people feel good that we are past the moment of collapse, which is where we were a year ago. but again, at some point we need the fundamentals to catch up. and that's why we're so focused on revenue growth as opposed to earnings group. they cut to the bone, they cut spending and we haven't seen -- and that's why the fourth quarter is so important. holiday spending, we'll see if the fundamentals catch up. >> more numbers for you to break down. u.s. inflation up .2% in september, energy up, food prices down. >> and that's a nonevent. 2,000% in terms of inflation is really not a problem. we'll see when the fed stops the easy money and once the stimulus package and going into 2010 if commodities stay as high as they are. at some point inflation does become an issue. it's not an issue yet. coming up, congresswoman maxine waters will be here for our political round table. keep it here on "morning joe." ñ i wish i knew then what i know now. get what dermatologists now recommend to fight aging... in new aveeno positively ageless multidefense. a combination of a high spf and powerful antioxidants... designed to reduce lines and wrinkles in just 4 weeks. new from aveeno. live pictures of minneapolis for you. welcome back to "morning joe." time now for our political round table. here with us now is democratic representative from california, and member of the financial services committee, congresswoman maxine waters. it's very good to have you back. >> good to be back, mika, how are you doing this morning? >> just great, joe is here now after doing a radio interview. would you like to say hello to your friend maxine? >> we are concerned around this table maxine about the fact that unemployment is at 10% and yet you have a lot of these financial institutions on wall street that were bailed out and they're handing out record bonuses. how do you explain that to people in your district, in my old district and across america? >> it's not explainable. there are a number of things going on. first of all, we bailed out banks, they have tightened the credit, our small businesses can't get any assistance, they can't buy inventory. even for just individuals, we find that the credit limits have been reduced, in addition to that, you have wall street acting as if nothing happened, they're acting as if we didn't have a meltdown in this society. and you're right, they continue to pass out those bonuses and aig just should be ashamed of what they're doing. not only did we bail them out and save them and they turn around and pay some of our bailout money to one of the wall street firms, goldman-sachs, but they continue to act as if nothing has happened. we really must be tough in this regulatory reform that we're doing. >> congresswoman, i want to ask you about the president's quick trip to new orleans. >> yes. >> he's not been there, i think for a few hours and then headed to a fund-raiser out west for the democratic fund-raiser. the optics don't look good, that perhaps he ought to spend more time in new orleans. >> i'm glad he's going. it was a campaign promise and he's going to go down with a charter school and then he's going to hold a town hall meeting. i like the idea of a town hall meeting because you'll get people who will be coming from all over that area and they'll tell him what they think about what progress they're making or not making. i have been spending some time in new orleans because as a chair of the subcommittee on housing and community opportunity, i'm concerned about housing. we have a lot of housing needs there. >> but they do, maxine and you have been down there, other people have been engaged. weren't you surprised that it's taken the president nine, ten months to go down to new orleans and he's going to go down there for an hour and then he heads to a fundraiser? wouldn't you have preferreded that he at least stayed there overnight? >> of course. a lot of new orleansians would like him to stay there. but in addition to dealing with afghanistan and trying to come up with the answers about what we're going to do there, this economic situation that we have been involved there and as you mentioned, unemployment, all of these issues are issues that he's had to try and manage and deal with. i'm glad he didn't forget about new orleans. i'm glad that he's spending some time there and hopefully he will spend more time there in the future. >> all right. sounds good. >> all right, maxine, thank you so much for being on as always, great talking to you. >> great talking to you, have a good morning. >> maria, let's talk about the banks. the banks were forced in the past to give loans to people that couldn't afford loans. credit is tight now. and washington, you heard maxine saying banks should loosen up credit. and i don't want banks to give credit to people that can't afford to repay loans. but i talked to a lot of small business people. they had a pretty damn good risk that aren't getting loans. >> businesses are still really struggling in terms of access to credit, there's no doubt about it. >> why is that? >> one of the issues we're facing right now is that regulators were asking the banks to raise their capital levels. obviously we don't want to get into a situation where we were before where the banks need capital and are hoarding their cash. but that's exactly what's happening again. because the capital requirements are higher, but at the same time regulators are saying you need your capital requirements are up here, but you need to be lending here. what would you do, if you're being told to lend your capital levels, are you going to lend that money? >> the banks are doing the same thing, mike barnicle that the midwestern people a american people are doing. it seems like the banks are saying we're not going to be caught when the tide goes without any clothes on again. >> maria just mentioned the critical point, every time one of the banks who have t.a.r.p. money say we can repay the t.a.r.p. money. the bror rock si, you have to raise the amount of cash that you have on hand. so you can't repay us until you have that much money left in the till. so you're absolutely right. >> i don't necessarily blame sheila baer, because we do need capital levels, obviously because we had such a crunch, but it takes time in order to get those capital levels up. but the small business is really getting squeeszed in the process. larger businesses have the assets, they're raising money through stock offerer iing. >> we haven't paid attention to the real problem, is that all the silly mortgages handed out for a couple of years because banks were being forced to hand out mortgages. >> rush limbaugh is not going on the an owner of the st. louis rams. >> he was putting together a -- not only from outside, from al sharpton and others, but also from inside the nfl, where we heard the commissioner two days ago saying we don't want someone as divisive as rush limbaugh associated with our league. >> do you think the players were complaining to the commissioner? >> no. i don't think the players give a damn where their paycheck's coming from, quite frankly. they want to make sure it's signed. but i think the national football league did not want to be associated with this and they have the right not to be with someone who's been critical of their league, somebody who's going to cause controversy at at every turn, denigrating the league and the association. >> the nfl is risk averse. you had o'brien who was one of the -- they're one of the most based conservative risk averse organizations you have ever seen. >> and one of the most image conscious institutions and at the end of the day, this proves one thing beyond doubt, that in this particular instance. al sharpton has more clout than rush limbaugh. >> do you remember on espn where they had the show that talked about the private life of the nfl players, the nfl killed it, told espn take it off, or you don't get the highlights at half. espn took it off like that. >> the huge money makers, it changed networks. i you're critical of the nfl, you run the risk of not getting it back. >> nbc, sunday night, it's changed nbc. so it makes a huge difference. >> up next, how critical is the national debt to turning around the economy? and was paul krugman right about the stimulus when he was on "morning joe"? >> the guy who runs over a pedestrian in his car and says oh, let me fix it and so he backs up and runs over the pedestrian again. the fact that we had a bubble, because we had easy money, doesn't mean we have to have tight money now, it means we have to keep the economy afloat. how much do you pay when you buy a stock? does the rate change depending on how often you trade or how much you have in your account? at td ameritrade, there's only one price for online stock trades--$9.99. now matter how often you trade. no matter how much money you have in your account. straightforward pricing from td ameritrade. independence is the spirit that drives america's most successful investors. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. get what dermatologists now recommend to fight aging... in new aveeno positively ageless multidefense. a combination of a high spf and powerful antioxidants... designed to reduce lines and wrinkles in just 4 weeks. new from aveeno. announcer: there's having it done. then there's doing it yourself and saving. it's about sawdust in your boots, paint in your hair and no holes in your wallet. - man: whew! - we've lowered prices throughout the store, giving you all the tools you need and the bragging rights you deserve. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. save 20 bucks with a new lower price on the kohler forte kitchen faucet. with this political economy, the author of the new book "canes, the return of the master white." he's the most important economic thinker for americans. nanks for being with us. let me start by insulting you. >> yes? >> you sound like dick cheney. you say deficits don't matter. explain. >> well, i think it's ironic, but it was a republican leader of the republicans that said deficits don't matter. it's the republicans that have been the biggest splurgers in the history of deficits. >> that doesn't make it right, does it? >> no, it doesn't make it right. >> but you say we should follow change and ignore deficits. >> i think keynes never said that, he said you have to have deficits on -- you need to replace shrinking private deficits. he said normally you would should run surpluses. >> we have doubled our debt under the past eight years under george w. bush, under barack obama it will go from $10 trillion to 11 trillion. >> you can't ignore the debt. but you can be too alarmist by the debt. we're amazed by trillion. we think it's in some stratosphere which is beyond our imagination. the debt shrinkses a -- as a proportion of national income, the debt shrinks and all these huge debts have sh running over time without people raising taxes enormously because it's automatic. if the economy grows by 2% or 3% a year, and we assume that there will be some growth at some time, the debt will just shrink. >> does it scare you that we have -- we have an economic/political system in this country where you have deficits and occasionally you have surpluses, but in between and constantly, you have what seems to be an economic illiterate, politicians who are largely economic illiterates who are trying to address this situation. >> all politicians are economically illiterate. you have politicians who don't understand everything they need to understand about economic policy but they get advice. but they're great consumers of ideas, and the idea that i would say, that the ideas of post reagan period have actually produced, both the very large deficits and also the present crisis. >> but as i understand it, from just listening to you speak with joe, is that i should be telling my children don't worry about these trillion dollar deficits, things will going to be fine for you, when my kids, my oldest kids in their 20s have an instinctively awareness that things might not be as fine for them as they were for me or mika or joe. >> if the economy doesn't grow, if it's so feeble that it won't grow for 10, 15, 20 years, then the debt will be a huge problem. but if you assume normal growth and it grows about 2% a year when it's off it's life support system, that's just healthy growth, the debt will shrink. >> can we assume that? >> we can assume that. the japanese assumed in the mid 1980s that they would be growing soon and nay had about a decade of stagflation. >> economies have different levels of dine missile. and i think the u.s. has been historically one of the most dynamic economies in the world and to say at this point all prospects of growth are over, we're just left with this huge debt for future generations to pay off is very, very pessimistic. >> so your advice to me is to throw out all of my hyatts book and start reading keynes? >> that would be a start. i don't think keynes has the answer to everything in the world today. he obviously died 70 years ago. but on this point, that deficits shrink automatically when economies grow healthily, that is correct. >> so ignore the deficits, grow the economy, it's going to take care of itself through growth, we're going to grow ourselves out of this? >> when the economy is shrinking and then you need a stimulus. and a big stimulus. the american economy has shrunk by more than 12% in the last year. >> so you did take an insult. is as a liberal, or as a keynes, you and dick chain are the same on deficits. >> thank you so much, we appreciate it. >> up next, what did we learn today? why does lubriderm® work so well with skin? one reason? lubriderm® contains the same nutrients naturally found in healthy skin. skin absorbs it for a clinically shown 24 hours. for skin that looks and feels truly comfortable. lubriderm®. your moisture matched. that's great, hey, kids, what have we learned today? william, what have you learned? >> i learned that it's mike barnicle's 75th birthday. >> you got me a birthday present, let's see what it is. it's a nets t-shirt and i got a card that said, you're a loser too. >> that is's cool. >> what have you learned? >> that's what i learned, he turned 75. i also learned that the captain of bono died yesterday. mika, what did you learn? >> the incredible picture that we just had up on the screen, i'm horrified. mike barnicle, happy birthday, that's all i can

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