decen decency. and trump sometimes seems like somebody who has no moral sense, like moral rules and things don't seem to -- >> more a moral than moral. >> it's like telling a color blind person this is purple. i think he's just perpetually surprised because he doesn't have awareness of this. this is a case where people in the military i knew, trump voters, were deeply, deeply offended. >> this is the type of story that could penetrate. this is sometimes where i wonder, this was deeply offensive and a nonidealogical way. >> that's a challenge for democrats, is that it's very difficult from sort of a messaging perspective to launch this challenging impeachment process and also to be able to have this focus on these other issues. the story of the secretary of the navy being ousted or resigning has been totally covered up. or pushed to the side by the impeachment story. >> thanksgiving, too. >> exactly, but the impeachment story is dominating the way democrats talk about the president, and it's not without an opportunity cost. >> and this is where the president, he understands this