ukraine. i think it started to show up in donald trump's numbers. i think this story has put a whole new big pile of exhaustion onto this big, big sort of smoldering whatever it is we have. >> you can be pro-trump's agenda. >> i think that's true. i think the problem for joe biden what he had going for him is he was part of the obama administration, scandal free basically, no drama every day and he could return to that normalcy in a certain sense and now he's been made part of this drama. the risks and benefits is not only the sympathy people can feel, but if he realizes if he gives more speeches and does less campaign funding and does what a person fighting for their life does -- >> i've got the head of the nixon library over here and i've got my favorite historian over there. should biden give a checker