independents and moderate republicans who deserted our party in 2016 for donald trump. you make the case to them, add to an ignited democratic base, and win big and win back the u.s. senate. that's the recipe to getting all of these things done on climate change and immigration reform. >> why do voters who perhaps share your view of this electability issue right now view joe biden as that electable candidate? >> they know him. vice president biden has been in leadership for many, many years. they don't know me as well. that's why this -- >> do you think you would be stronger than him? >> i think i would be a very strong candidate. >> you didn't say stronger than him. >> okay, i believe i am stronger than all of the other candidates or i wouldn't be running. >> fair enough. >> but i believe that when you look at the midwest and wisconsin and michigan, iowa, and pennsylvania, these states that we want to win, that we have to win. you have to go with someone that has that track record and can