Transcripts For MSNBC Martin Bashir 20131021

Good afternoon to you on this monday afternoon. We begin as washington shakes off its post shutdown days. And turns its focus on to the troubled rollout that spurred all that republican ire in the first place. A little website known as healthcare. Gov. And today in the white house rose garden, the president voud to deal with the technological flaws that have made signing up so difficult for so many americans. There is no shoeiugarcoatin. The website is too slow, people have been getting stuck during the application process. Nobody is madder than me about the fact that the website isnt working as well as it should. Which means its going to get fixed. The president said a tech surge is already at work, 24 7 to address the website issues. But while the kinks are being ironed out, he urged people to sign up by phone or in person. And offered a reminder, that online glitches cannot be allowed to overshadow the monumental benefit of the law for millions of americans. We did not wage this long and contentious battle just around a website. Thats not what this was about. We waged this battle to make sure that millions of americans in the wealthiest nation on earth finally have the same chance to get the same security of affordable, Quality Health care as anybody else. And naturally, republicans are still heartily engaged in their effort to prevent that horror from happening. Before the president even finished speaking. Senator ted cruz blasted out an email statement, quote, we already know obama care cant live up to its promises. Congress should act immediately to stop obama care from inflicting anymore damage on the country, on our hardworking citizens. He dashed it off so fast, he didnt have time to correct his grammatical errors. As for senator cruzs gop colleagues, they have been brushing off stacks of wired magazines, fancying themselves as the savvyist iest of gurus. A trip to the website is like a trip to the department of motor vehic motor vehicles. Where people can go on and buy something is not that complicated. Send air force one out to silicon valley, load it up with some smart people, bring them back to washington and fix this problem. Its ridiculous. And while republicans have plenty of criticism for healthcare. G healthcare. Govs technical woes, what they dont have is any plan of their own to cover uninsured americans and rein in Health Care Costs overall. No, that would be quite challenging. Much easier to hue and complain and call for Kathleen Sebeliuss head on a platter. She will testify before congress on the rough Health Care Rollout as early as next week. Ted cruz, unfortunately, could not be reached for comment. He was too busy wiping the drool from his lips. Lets get right to our panel. With us from washington is dana milbank, political commentist for the Washington Post and in new york, msnbc contributor jared bernstein, also a senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities. Dana, i have to start with you. You were present at the rose garden event today. And there was this moment when a woman standing behind the president became a little bit wobbly, and needed to be escorted out with an assist from the president himself. We understand her name is carmel allison, both pregnant and a diabetic, but doing fine. Republican congressman Steve Stockman couldnt help himself, tweeting, quote, the guy who made a pregnant diabetic woman stand until she faints now runs your health care. Dana, doesnt that speak to the bigger problem for Affordable Care act opponents . Here is a woman who stands to benefit from this policy, but all republicans can think of is attacking the issue or her, indeed. Yeah, im surprised we didnt have Michele Bachmann coming out after that saying, i told you obama care would kill people. Look what its doing. Of course. You know, i mean, theres theres any number of crazy things that people are going to say there. The president gave what was, you know i think the strongest sales pitch since they did the info mercials for the ginsu knife. This mess up with the website has given republicans an opening to say we told you so, there is something wrong with this. No sales pitch is going to work until and unless they get this fixed which is why that has to be his priority. Js. Even though, dana, you know states have set up cooperative websites and have had far greater success. Could it not be said that republicans are actually partially responsible for the breakdown in the technology . Well, clearly. And in many cases, whats happened here is the republicans have worked very hard to discredit obama care, and then when as a result of the misinformation thats been spread, people get nervous and think that obama care isnt working. They say, ahha, i told you so. I told you that was going to be a train wreck. So its become sort of this circular thing. But thats why the president and this white house cannot afford to have the kind of technological problems they have, because it gives these guys an opening. Yeah, i get that. Jared, the president himself said there are no excuses. He accepted with his hands up there have been serious issues. But can you tell me, what is the republican excuse for continuing to demonize the law, to call for secretary sebelius head . What is their excuse for opposing health care for millions of americans not covered . Its a very important question. By the way, its one i keep hearing from people i talk to in other countries scratching their heads about a lot of American People like me. Okay, for example. Here we go. Because in all other oh advanced economies, Health Care Reform has taken place many, many decades ago. And they realized, a long time ago 1946 in the u. K. Correct. So these these countries realized a long time ago, that this is not something that you can exclusively turn over to the majori market, because its a different kind of good than that. So in every single advanced economy, there is a kind of Public Private hybrid that delivers health care to people far more efficiently. Remember, they spend a half to twothirds of the share of gdp on health care with the same or better outcomes. So the question i think comes from people who really, a. , dont understand the nature of what Health Care Reform is supposed to do. And, by the way, is doing in terms of already bending the cost curve. B. , just want to attack the president for anything he says. And c. , view this as an expansion of the role of government without recognizing that government has to play a role in the delivery of health care in every single advanced economy across the globe. Right. Dana, according to the New York Times, 8 million poor americans will not receive health care under the Affordable Care act. Thats because, as i said earlier, 26 states dominated by gop governors are refusing to participate in medicaids expansion. Even though 58 of the poor and uninsured live in those oh very states. And even though the federal government get this, dana would pick up the entire cost for three years. Does that not indicate both a level of callousness on the part of the Republican Opposition, but also a brazen disdain for this particular president and this policy . Well, it certainly indicates a willingness to cut off their noses to spite their faces. And the president got at that in his remarks today. He talked about oregon, where they have been able to reduce the number of unemployed in that state by 10 by i think he said uninsured. Uninsured, sorry. Overnight, 60,000 or some number close to that, simply by accepting this Medicaid Expansion. So you have in the other states not participating, unfortunately the majority of them. You have governors willingly saying, no, were going to keep these poor people uninsured. Just because i dont like that law. And it has no actual financial benefits to them in not implementing. Absolutely. Jared, i accept that we live in a culture where everything has to be immediate. Everything has to be perfect. We have no tolerance for any delays. We cant cope with any kind of suffering. We run away from all these things. How is it possible, though, that a website has become the very focus of this issue, when, in fact, if this is a provision of health care that currently does not we have millions of people who are not covered. Right. And this is surely the answer to that. Its as if we built a very Good Shopping center, but the road to get there is filled with potholes, and now everybody is talking about the road. And i actually understand that. Because that is the way that people are interacting with this. They dont necessarily know, you know, the architecture, the way that people who are steeped in Health Care Reform do. So the president is 100 right. They have to fix this right away. But i think what is so important to focus on we kind of blew by this statistic that dana mentioned. Within three weeks, the number of uninsured in oregon has come down 10 . Okay . I dont thats because of the Medicaid Expansion. Part of the Affordable Care act. I challenge you to find another time in history when youve all of a sudden covered 10 of the uninsured in a state in three weeks. And if you look at some of the cost advantages, if you look at the people that are already benefitting, the kids on their parents plans, the prevent active care, the prescription cost for seniors, you can see the benefits rolling out. Here is a real glitch. And the glitch has to be fixed. The good news, the Shopping Center at the end of the road is highly functional and will do what its supposed to do. But weve got to fix the road. We certainly have. Dana milbank and jared bernstein, thank you to both. And before the president spoke today, he gave the floor to one of the Health Exchanges first enrollees, who was not shy about the pros and cons of her experience. I have the privilege to say that im the first person in the state of delaware to enroll for Health Insurance through the new marketplace. Like many like many consumers out there, it took me a number of frustrating attempts before i could apply for and select my plan. And im delighted to say that janice baker joins us now from the white house. Good afternoon, mrs. Baker. Good afternoon, martin. Its a great privilege for us to have you with us. As i understand it, you spent Something Like seven hours on the phone and on your computer trying to sign up. Now, what was the problem for you personally . I started applying online right on october 1st. Knowing that there would be glitches, knowing that there would be holdups. But i kept on trying. And i was unable to enroll oh because i could not get past the first page. It kept saying, you know, keep trying to enroll. And i kept trying to do it, and i could not i could not get logged in. So i did pick up the phone, and i tried the 800number twice. And both times after an hour and a half each time, i kept running into a frozen computer. They said they were unable to complete the form. So that was quite frustrating to me. And yet you did actually explore what the problem was. And as i understand it, it wasnt the actual website itself. It was a problem on your own computer, is that right . Thats correct. I noticed at the bottom of the first page, theres a thing that says trouble logging in. And i pressed on that button, and it explained how i should clear the cookieses and clear the cache on my computer, which i dont know what that is, but i did what they instructed. And it brought me to a point where i was able to get in on the computer, make my application, and enroll for a policy. Right. Well, thats great news. We should note, you are a Small Business owner, 24 years running the heavenly hound hotel, a boarding and grooming kennel. A great place, im sure. And so im assuming, youre no stranger to paperwork. And having been through the arduous process of signing up, was the pain worth the gain . How much cheaper is your Health Coverage now as compared with what it was previously . It is well worth it. I am paying 150 less per month. The deductibles are much lower. And the policy itself covers a lot of Preventative Health care, which i didnt have in my previous policy. So given your experience and youve now successfully enrolled, indeed today, you introduced the president. What would you say to the American Public about this provision . About the problems with the website and so on . What would you say . You know, as i have to keep telling myself, youve got to have patience with it. Its a tremendous endeavor for, you know, anybody to take on. Even if you have they say theyre ready, there is going to be glitches somewhere or another. And in my case, it was in my own computer. Right. Janice baker, thank you so much for joining us. And i thank you for having me. If i had a dog, would i certainly bring him to you to board. Thank you so much. Coming up, samesex couples are married in new jersey. Thats 14 down, 36 to go. And later, the chickens come home to roost for Ken Cuccinelli. The whole country is watching to see if the rights of women and girls will be respected. Especially over our own bodies and our health care. So so if you have a flat tire, dead battery, need a tow or lock your keys in the car, geicos emergency roadside assistance is there 24 7. Oh dear, i got a flat tire. Hmmm. Uh. Yeah, can you find a take where its a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah . Yeah i got it right here. Someone help me i have a flat tire well its good. Good for me. What do you think . Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Her busy saturday begins with back pain, when. Hey pam, you should take advil. Why . You can take four advil for all day relief. So i should give up my two aleve for more pills with advil . Youre joking right . For my back pain, i wa my aleve. [ babies crying ] surprise your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise your car needs a new transmission. 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And when he asked the assembled audience to speak now for forever hold their peace, he was met by the objection of a single protester, to which he responded, thus and not hearing any substantive, worthy objections new jersey now becomes the 14th state to legalize samesex marriage. And as we have predicted here before, the 36 remaining states will ultimately follow suit, whether driven by principle or politics. Consider once again the candidates sponsoring samesex marriage, mayor booker, cruised to a Senate Victory against a republican opponent who not only opposed samesex marriage but crudely questioned the Sexual Orientation of his opponent. But the bigger bellwether likely came from governor Chris Christie, a man who knows a thing or two about winning votes who today with drew his states legal appeal to samesex marriage. And to the newly married, a word of congratulations. And a little bit of marital advice. Dont let the sun go down on your anger, its always better to stay up and fight. Stay with us. The days top lines are coming up. And it is a dog eat dog world, especially deep in the heart of texas. Having spent the past month up in d. C. , it is really great to be back in america. Have a little bit of selfrestraint. It might politically be a better approach. Max and penny kept our bookstore exciting and would always come to my rescue. But as time passed, i started to notice max just wasnt himself. And i knew hed feel better if he lost a little weight. So i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. I just fed the recommended amount. And they both loved the taste. After a few months maxs special powers returned. And i got my hero back. Purina cat chow healthy weight. Man [ laughs ] those look like baby steps now. But they were some pretty good moves. And the best move of all . Having the right partner at my side. Its so much better that way. 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Daddy youre not just looking for a house. Youre looking for a place for your life to happen. Theyre the days to take care of business. When possibilities become reality. With centurylink as your trusted partner, our visionary Cloud Infrastructure and Global Broadband network free you to focus on what matters. With Custom Communications solutions and responsive, dedicated support, we constantly evolve to meet your needs. Every day of the week. Centurylink® your link to whats next. From rifts to gifts. Here are todays top lines. Just watch out for the mule, okay . The question now is, will the Republican Party have a civil war. The Republican Party is almost in a civil war with itself. Are we seeing a war now for the soul of the Republican Party . This does cause a rift in the party. I dont see it so much as a real rift. There are times when theres a new wave, if you will. The Affordable Care act took us off message. You have senator Lindsay Graham this weekend calling the shutdown. The political gift of the president by the Republican Party at a time needed most. Thank you. Jeb bush said republicans should have shown a little selfrestraint, and let this happen a little more organically. Mitch mcconnell said i think we have fully acquainted our new members with what a losing strategy is. Again, listen to mitch mcconnell. Second kick of the mule. One of my favorite old kentucky saying. There is nothing to be learned from the second kick of the mule. She falls in a well, eyes go crossed. You said you thought the tea party was a positive influence. Do you still feel that way . I do. The president who bows down to allah. Its an uprising. Heck i cant. And the good thing, its taken place within the Republican Party. Youve seen epic disaster. I dont see it as a negative. Our brand name is at the lowest ever. Its better to have that kind of ferment and turmoil and change in the Republican Party. Does ted cruz hurt your party . He represents the thinking of an awful lot of people. You made some enemies. The shutdown should be in our Rearview Mirror as republicans, dont do this again ted. There are so many people funnier than i am, especially here in washington. Lets get right to our panel. Joining us now is goldy taylor, a columnist for thegrio. Com. And ryan grim of the huffington post. Ryan, here is a quick list of republicans being targeted by other republicans. Their senate leader, mitch mcconnell, being targeted by jim demint. And then there is senator thad cochran of mississippi, targeted by the club for growth. And then you have a republicanhouse member, mike simpson of idaho, who is also a club for growth target. So ryan, when people say theres a civil war in the Republican Party, is that what they mean . Well, maybe its more like a rebellion. Or a revolution, where theyre trying to overthrow overthrow the elites. What you have to remember, though, is that a lot of these folks are going to survive. Like mitch mcconnell, for instance, is very likely to survive this challenge. Hell be blooded and may end up costing him the general election, or at least contribute to it. But he will survive. And if you look back at 2010 and 2012, a lot of the establishment senators who were challenged from the right did survive. On the other hand, several of them did lose. And if it hadnt been for those challenges, its very likely that the senate would be in republican hands. All be it, established republican hands, which probably wound make the ted cruz base voters of the world happy. So what youre saying, ryan, is that all of these challenges by club for growth and heritage ultimately, if history is to be our guide, will benefit democrats. And will also benefit club for growth. And jim demint. So, you know, the you know, the incentives are lined up such that the democrats could give money to jim demint and club for growth to do what theyre doing, they certainly would figure out a way to do it. Absolutely. Goldie, would i like you to listen to david brooks of the New York Times on the subject of the gop civil war. Take a listen. The question now is, will the Republican Party have a civil war. Over the nature of the party. And i think were beginning to see rumblings of that. The problem is, to have a civil war, you actually have to have two sides. The tea party has a political movement, think tank, donor base, others want to compete in california and new york and along the east coast and illinois. They dont have a side. They have american crossroads, a pact. They have a cocktail party. So i guess, goldie, you can have a lot of republicanon republican violence. But does that make it a true civil war . You know, i have stay with ryan about this, it does not feel like a civil war as it does a rebellion. It seems more like a purging, Like Tea Party patriots across this country have got the backing of this grass roots money, 5, 10, 25 at a time, the kind of conversation you have around your Kitchen Table if you live in a deeply red state. Theyve got that on their side and they can take that and fight Establishment Republicans toe for toe. There is a risk for that. For having this kind of purging happening. For instance, here in georgia, we have some very conservative congressmen who want to run for u. S. Senate here and take over chambliss seat which he is vacanting, and paul browne, who is a deep, deep red waca loon from the far red state. It gives someone like michelle nun running as a democrat a chance of winning. So there is a chance this purging may take them too far. But on balance, youre going to find Establishment Republicans are going to survive these races. But when you find close races like the one that may happen in georgia, then youve got something to talk about. Okay. So to that point, ryan, is ted cruz a stooge for jim demint, or is jim demint running the Republican Party . Well, i think i mean, theyre both generals in this rebellion. Lets call them that. But i dont think you can dismiss crossroads so easily as a cocktail party, as david brooks did. Thats an organization that, you know, has a couple hundred Million Dollars every election, representing giant corporations in the extremely wealthy. Theres not just them. You also have the addlesons of the world who might get involved in this, and the establishment direction. You have the chamber of commerce whose interests are stretch in preserving the status quo, rather than seeing it up ended. They dont want to see the debt ceiling breached. They dont want to see all of the different chaos that the tea party is bringing. So i dont think you can kind of, you know, discount the business wing of the Republican Party as easily as david brooks seemed to want to. Yes, there is not a lot of kind of, you know, poetic ideology behind the business wing. But they do have a lot of raw power that they can bring, if they decide to. And they flexeded it in the past. Ryan grim and goldy taylor, thank you so much. Still ahead, with the sun possibly setting on Ken Cuccinelli, why the governors race is the ideal place for one Hillary Clinton to make her own political return. If Hillary Clinton does run, shell be one of the best prepared people. And she will win, i believe, if she runs. Shell be one of the best prepared people to enter the white house in a long time. [ male announcer ] when you have sinus pressure and pain, you feel. Squeezed. Congested. Beat down. Crushed. As if the weight of the world is resting on your face. But sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief. So you feel free. Liberated. Released. Decongested. Open for business. 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In part because of the republican platform voters appear set to reject next month. And in part when the former secretary of state makes comments like this. So were coming down to the home stretch. Ive been in a lot of elections. And joining us now is erin carmoan, National Reporter for msnbc. Com and jonathan capehart, Political Writer for the Washington Post. John, virginia is in a bit of a political position to field the philosophies. It was hammered by the shutdown and also felt the sting of mr. Cuccinellis koeshl agenda against gay rights, climate change, women i could go on. What do you think it will cost the gop come 2016 . If Terry Mccullough looks like hes going to do around ten points ahead . Right, and becomes governor, it certainly puts the state in play as a place where democrats can add it and keep it in the win column. I mean, what the republicans did with the shutdown, i think, was horrible for their electoral chances. They needed settle there is a slimdown, john. A slimdown, thank you. But it was a shutdown. A ted cruzinspired shutdown. And all those people who live in northern virginia, urbanized northern virginia, gives them an incentive to come out and vote, and vote against the republican, which could swamp the more republicanleaning voters that are outside of the beltway further south in the state. So not great. No. Cuccinelli today is holding an anti obama care Affordable Care act event with other attorney state attorneys general. People seem to forget that just minutes after it passed into law, mr. Cuccinelli or the kooch, as he is known, rushed in and filed a lawsuit against it. How has that worked out for him, do you think . Well, obviously, it didnt work out well, because the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care act. And i think more broadly, it shows how Ken Cuccinelli is a true warrior of the conservative right, whether its on Economic Issues or on womens issues, on gay rights issues. Hes trying to bring us back on gay rights more than a decade to when the Supreme Court struck down sodomy statutes. Trying to shut down abortion clinics, clinics that provide vital care to women in virginia. He is very enthusiastic about going after contraception. So i think that shows that this is really where his heart is. And hes kind of a leading brand of that kind of republican conservatism, isnt he . Right. He seems to be standing to thwart progress. Hillary clinton said thatterry is there to represent progress. Ken looks like he is trying to thwart. John, two conservative editorial boards in the state have refused to endorse ku cuccinel cuccinelli. Let me read why. On social issues such as abortion and homosexual rights, cuccinelli not only takes stands we find objectionable, but pursues his divisive agenda with a stride en see that was unbecoming in an attorney general and would be unbecoming in a governor. So what do you think about that . As a reflection of the fact that cuccinelli represents so much of the tea partys philosophy as erin said, on economics through to social issues . Yeah, its Pretty Amazing that, you know, they would go after cuccinelli. So Ken Cuccinelli goes too far for a conservative newspaper. Right. It shows there are limit. And on Election Night maybe, you know, the people of virginia will demonstrate clearly what those limits are. And look, inger rain is right. Cuccinelli sits athwart progress, modernity, and what were seeing is what were seeing from the 2008 election, the 2012 president ial election and this, that voters, whether theyre going to in the state of virginia or nationally, are moving forward on a whole host of issues. And anyone who stands in the way of womens health, gay rights, and any of the other issues that cuccinelli is against, is going to is going to be penalized, will not be rewarded. And yet despite what john says, one of the narratives coming out of Republican Party circles is that the governors conservative governors in Republican Party, are actually the future of the party. That they have seen some success down that road. And they have, havent they . Look at rick perry. Well, i think if i were a republican, i might point to Chris Christie instead. I think that in many of these cases that was a joke. Its okay, erin. I am allowed to laugh at rick perry. I mean, i would say rick perry is very much the kind of governor that i think ken cusp can cuccinelli would be if he somehow manages to beat the odds. In fact, just today, the laws he pushed through, through special session in texas ended up in court. So i think if somehow Ken Cuccinelli becomes governor, we can expect a series of lawsuits, basically saying everything he has pushed in unconstitutional. But rick perry is an old he has been in office since when . 2000 . If you look at republican governors like casich in ohio, scott walker in wisconsin, they came in as fire brands. They got pushed back by a lot of the things they wanted to do and have sort of reformed. But what youre seeing from those republican governors is that theyre learning that compromise is not a dirty word. And if youre going to get anything done, you must compromise. And if i were republican, i would point towards Chris Christie, who just let go of the appeal in the gay marriage case and susana martinez. Even jan brewer, people who have accepted the Medicaid Expansion and are willing to not just block obama and willing to say, fine, we have these uninsured people in our state. Erin carmoan and jonathan capehart. Coming up, a 13 billion fine. The running of one wall street bull, straight ahead. I am so damn proud of this company. Thats what i wake up thinking every day. How worried are you about the possible ramifications of criminal charges . Were going to try to move on and then move on and serve our clients. Ive got to go. Okay. Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty oh wont you please take me home [ alarm sound for malfunctioning printer ] [ male announcer ] youve reached the age where youve learned a thing or two. [ metal clanks ] this is the age of knowing what youre made of. So why let erectile dysfunction get in your way . [ gears whirring ] talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. Ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in Blood Pressure. Side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. To avoid longterm injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. Stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. [ cellphone beeps ] this is the age of taking action. Viagra. Talk to your doctor. A tentative 13 billion settlement. If finalized, the largest penalty against a bank since the 2008 financial crisis. And yet many are saying that this punishment against jp Morgan Stanley chase for its roll in sales is simply not enough. Some feel that there needs to be a face to this crime, and that that face should be jpmorgans ceo, jamie dimon. And while this settlement doesnt necessarily close the door on criminal charges, if history is any indicator, it seems unlikely. For his part, well, mr. Dimon, doesnt seem too concerned at all. Were gaining market share, doing great stuff, trying to get behind us. I am so damn proud of this company. Thats what i wake up thinking every day. For more, im delighted to say were joined by dennis kelliher, president and ceo of better markets, a Nonprofit Organization that acts as a watchdog of wall street. Good afternoon, sir. Hi, martin. Good to be with you. Thank you for joining us. Jpmorgan and jamie dimon, as its ceo, has a reputation for being one of the more responsible banks on wall street. Many of the securities in question were actually inherited, and they were bought from bear stearns, washington mutual. So is jpmorgan the right target for this recordbreaking settlement, or are they just the first of what you think will be many others . Well, lets hope theyre the first of many others, not just for us, but all the americans who have paid the price for the worst financial crash since 1929, and the worst economy since 1930, which they caused. Largely caused by this dozen or so too big to fail banks on wall street. And Jpmorgan Chase is supposed to not only too big to fail and too big to jail but too big to manage. Remember, theyve got assets between 2 and 4 trillion. They have more than 250,000 employees and more than 60 countries operating in more than 4,000 legal entities. No one can manage that bank. And as you say, even if theyre the best in the business, they cant manage it. You see, the problem for many people is that weve just been through, as you said, this horrendous recession. And for ordinary americans, there was no tolerance for failing to satisfy their mortgage bills. They were thrown out of their houses. People were prosecuted for not paying their bills. And yet what the public repeatedly see are these hugely successful banks, with leaders at the top, who perpetrate all kinds of frauds, and nothing ever happens. What is a 10 billion bill as a fine when your over all earnings are 104 billion . Well, youre exactly right. And it is absolutely inexcusable that the prosecutors and regulators in this country have done virtually nothing but occasionally slap on the wrist some of the worst, egregious wrongdoers we have seen in almost a century. And finally, it looks like at least there is going to be some amount of accountability at the money level. So keep in mind, 13 billion sounds like a lot of money for a settlement. But not when jpmorgans revenue last year was 97 billion. Not when they have 23 billion in reserves today, and not when you look at the amount of damage and recklessness that they have caused. Keeping in mind that some of this is from their acquisition at bear stearns and wamu but not a lot of it. So really what has to happen here, just like on main street, people on wall street, real people, executives, officers, directors, supervisors, have to be held accountable. They should be criminally prosecuted. They should be personally fined and they should be barred from the business when they commit wrongdoing in criminal conduct, just like everybody else. This double standard of justice, up with for wall street and another for main street, must end. Well, its absolutely horrendous. I mean, in light of what youve just said, do you think someone like jamie dimon, for example, should lose his job . Well, i dont think theres any question that its objectively true he should lose his job. You are looking egregious systemic wrongdoing in many parts of this bank, including many under his watch. For example, the london whale. But thats not all. Also, Jpmorgan Chases own conduct and connection with alleged fraudulent mortgages being sold to the federal housing agencies, which is being investigated by the prosecutors in california. Thats entirely related to Jpmorgan Chase, according to public reports. So anyone else would already have lost their job. But they are creating this myth through talking points that jamie dimon is being picked on, and that this all relates to stuff at wamu and bear stearns, and its not true. Yeah, no, they have done a brilliant job at the pr, as they always do. Thats true. What is your sense then . Is it your feeling that unless we do see some kind of culpability from these individuals, then they are just as likely, further down the road, maybe next year, maybe in five years, to develop these obscure transactions that then again boost their own profits, make them huge amounts of money, and ultimately crash the economy . Well, its not likely. Its guaranteed. Wall street has been on a crime spree for about a decade. And theres been no accountability for what they have done. And how can we know everywhere else, crime unpunished is not only crime undeterred, its crime encouraged. Yet on wall street, because they have computers, they talk in jargon and have fancy suits, well thee and wellconnected, there is a different standard for them. But there isnt there has been, but there shouldnt be. Crime unpunished rewards crime and incentivizes more crime. If everybody here gets away with what they did, and what they did was absolutely wrong, greej rousely wrong, almost certainly criminal in many cases, if that is not punished and punished clearly, at the individual level, and at the ceo, supervisory and executive level, youre going to see it happen all over again. And why not . The rewards are huge and the down side is zero. They respond to incentives like everybody else. Absolutely. And should be culpable. Dennis kelliher, thank you, sir. Thank you. New details on another shooting on an American School campus. But first, mandy drury has the cnbc market wrap. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, martin. Mixed close for the markets today. The dow losing 7 points, but the s p closing just fracturely higher after a record high. The nasdaq adding almost 6 points. Thats it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. [ male announcer] surprise youre having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise your house was built on an ancient burial ground. 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Vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6symptom cold flu relief. Were following a developing story out of nevada involving yet another shooting on an American School campus. Police say a student opened fire at Sparks Middle School this morning, just east of reno, killing a teacher who was attempting to protect other students. That teacher is already being hailed as a hero. He has been identified as 45yearold mike lansbury, a former marine. Two other students remain in critical condition. The gunman is reportedly dead. The motive remains unknown. Officials say the middle school will stay closed for the remainder of the week. And well be back in a moment. The recent increase in cafeteria prices is not cool. When you vote for flo, well have discounts. Icecream discounts. Multicookie discounts. Pizza loyalty discounts [ kids chanting flo ] i also have some great ideas on car insurance. [ silence ] finding you discounts since back in the day. Call or click today. I like her. 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I feel like im doing my part to help out the environment. Its time now to clear the air. And as the president explained earlier today, Republican Opposition to the Affordable Care act has been and will continue to be relentless. I recognize that the Republican Party has made blocking the Affordable Care act its signature policy idea. Sometimes it seems to be the one thing that unifies the party these days. In fact, they were willing to shut down the government. And potentially harm the Global Economy to try to get it repeal repealed. Interestingly, the charge against the Affordable Care act has been encouraged by former senator jim demint, who is now the president of the conservative heritage foundation. And even after republicans had surrendered last week, mr. Demint was still at it, attacking the lawyer in the wall street journal and praising those who brought the country to a standstill. It is why so many are thankful for the courageous leadership of people like senators ted cruz and mike lee and conservatives in the house of representatives, he wrote. Unfortunately, that group clearly does not include republican senator orrin hatch, who had this to say about heritage. Theres a real question in the minds of many republicans now, and im not just speaking for myself, for a lot of people, that is heritage going to go so political that it really doesnt amount to anything anymore. It really doesnt amount it to anything anymore. Thats a particularly pertinent statement, because the Affordable Care act, with its individual mandate, is not the work of the current president. In fact, the individual mandate was first proposed by two conservative think tanks, one of which was the heritage foundation. Back in 1989, stuart butler, a distinguished fellow, explained why everybody should be required to sign up for health care. If a young man wrecks his porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate, but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a health care in the street, americans will care for him, whether or not he has insurance. And there you have it. Heritage was strongly in favor