suffered from mental retardation there after. it can have very dangerous side effects. the mother was crying when she came up to me. i didn't know who she was before the debate. this is the concern and people have to draw their own conclusions. >> the suggestion that the hpv vaccination may have caused mental retardation had experts scratching their heads. rick perry was having none of it. >> you heard the same arguments about giving our children protects from some of the childhood diseases and autism was part of it. we subsequently fun to out that was generated and not true and i would suggest to you that this issue about gardasil and making it available was about saving people's lives. >> is there evidence to support what michele bachmann said this morning or is bachman using this public health issue as a line of political attack? i'm joined by dr. holly phillips who practices internal medicine in new york city. good afternoon. have you heard the suggestion or read it in a medical journal anywhere that the hpv vaccine leads to mental retardation? >> no. that is not one of known adverse effects. it's not even something that has been suggested in the medical literature. there some adverse effects that are well-known and rare, but sudden mental retardation is not one of them. >> what are are the side effects? >> the most common and this is rare in less than 1% of the population that gets the vaccine. there is local swelling and soreness of the area where you got the vaccine. some people experience nausea, fatigue and a little vomiting, but all of those tend to go away in the first day after you have gotten the vaccine. >> none of the faculties are affected? >> no. there is an organization called the va rs. they look closely at every possible adverse effect that could be linked with any vaccine. mental retardation is not one of them. we do of course feel for this woman who feels that her child was affected in this way, but it's important that we get the facts out there so parents can make the right decisions for their kids. >> we're continue to suffer the consequences of dr. andrew wakefield's research that led a number of people to conclude and believe as he suggested that taking the mmr vaccine led to children developing autism. that was a very serious outcome. is it irresponsible of politicians to stand up and make comments about medical conditions that frankly they are not qualified to make? >> martin, i feel we need to stay in our lane. congresswoman bachman is a politician. she should talk politics. when it comes to adverse effects of vaccines, scientists should be talking about that. we don't want for this sort of political jockeying to turn into fear mongering that might affect parents and their children. if you listened to what she had to say, you might feel that this vaccine leads to mental retardation and hold it back from your child. in so doing, they may contract a cancer that could have been otherwise prevented. >> you suggesting that if people take these political comments and politicians make being the comments about medical issues seriously, they could end up in a serious situation? >> very much so. one of the hot topics with the debate was what was the impetus for governor perry to radioer it for 12-year-olds? we hope there weren't political kick backs or anything else, but we can't lose sight of why the medical community is excited about this. it's the first time ever we have a vaccine to prevent cancer. it's the fifth largest cancer killer of women. imagine if we have a vaccine for breast cancer or colon cancer. we have to hope science leads us. parents should make a decision for their children. i'm not saying it's for everyone, but know the facts before you make that decision. what she gave us today weren't facts. >> dr. holly phillips. thank you for your reasonable approach. thank you. >> we followed this very closely and encouraged by what the iranian government said today. those are the carefully chosen words of secretary of state hillary clinton responding to the news that two american hikers convicted on charges related to spying could be released in the next few days. ann curry said the president suggested the country is now ready to replace shane bahher and josh fattal. >> translator: we wanted last year to free one of the three persons. we are trying to make arrangements for the freedom of the other two. i think these two persons really freed in a couple of days. in a couple of days. >> in a statement, they made a statement in which they said we are overjoyed by the positive news reports from iran. shane and josh's freedom means more to us than anything. we hope to say more when they are finally back in our arms. joining me now is the latest from tehran. the president is set to visit new york later for the un general assembly. i hate to be cynical, but is this decision to release them coincidental, accidental or related? >> i don't think it's cynical. if you look at past track records here, this is a plan with him. sarah shourd was released shortly before the general assembly. he wanted to make himself look magnanimous. there has been a lot of pressure from world powers and countries that are allies with iran to release these guys. he is making himself look more magnanimous because he sentenced them to years in prison and a harsh sentence for skying. even if they are let go with the bail or pardoned, he looks like he is putting on a soft image. i think it's very carefully cultivated. >> what can you tell us about this $500,000 bail that has been set, the same amount set for sarah shourd before she was released? >> there was a couple of aspects. it's a positive aspect. almost more positive than the word this is morning because the judiciary in iran is very powerful. the fact that they have set $500,000 bail for each of the guys shows that they are very serious about this. it has gone into a process. i don't think this is going to get reversed. this is a positive sign. there a few other aspects to consider. if these guys are convicted and they want to swap them for others, these are convicted prisoners out on jail and they may want to get other prisoners back from america. it makes it more of an even swap. these are good signs. i spoke to the lawyer for the two hikers. this has gone to an appeals court. they had been convicted. the fact that they had been bailed, they know they will come back and they want to get something out of it here in iran. not so much the money, but symbolism. >> encouraging news. thank you very much for joining us. >> coming up, the king of pop, michael jackson. the life and now the trial. plus, the president takes his jobs plan into boehner country. stay with us. bl [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. i know what works differently than many other allergy medications. omnaris. omnaris, to the nose. did you know nasal symptoms like congestion can be caused by allergic inflammation? omnaris relieves your symptoms by fighting inflammation. side effects may include headache, nose bleed, and sore throat. got allergy symptoms out of my way. now life's a picnic. [ man ] omnaris. ask your doctor. battling nasal allergy symptoms? omnaris combats the cause. get omnaris for only $11 at omnaris.com. a jet setting president obama is taking his jobs plan on tour and directly into the territory of his staunchest opponents. he started his pitch for the americans job act like eric kantor's home state. tomorrow he heads to north carolina, but today he was this john boehner's back yard in columbus, ohio. in front of a crowd of more than 3,000, his theme was the same. >> tlrs a plan that does two things. it puts people back to work and it puts more money in the pockets of working americans. >> nbc's kristin welker is here and let's start with you. republicans are are fired up saying the president is taking a my way or the highway approach with this plan. house majority leader eric kantor spoke a short time ago. let's look at what he said. >> some of the things that i think are troubling. first of all, it is his message of it is all or nothing. take it or leave it. pass my plan. >> i understand that you have been hearing thing this is morning suggesting that the president may be open to considering this bill in portions and in sections. is that right? >> we spoke to the senior administration officials that look if congress passes parts of this plan, the president won't veto and sign the portions and will press congress to pass the rest of the american jobs act and stressing that the president is committed to getting the act passed in its entirety, but say he is not going to veto parts. having said that as you said. it looks as though it will be difficult to pass. the white house saying that if it passes portions so that the president would not veto them and open to signing them. >> look, we have heard criticism of the bill and mitch mcconnell said and i'm quoting that this is a hodge podge of retread inside. this fix is permanent and daring republicans to vote against it. the willingness to find common ground has gone out the window. >> they would say that the president all or nothing approach is wrong as kantor said. they are trying to keep working with the president and you have heard this tone. john boehner said he welcomes the president to ohio and suspects he will be coming upon nice mid-western hospitality. the real issue that the republicans will have no appetite at all for the big pay fors. it also runs into the democrats that this idea of the loophole and charitable contributions. the president tried to do it in april of 2009 and not even able to pass it through the democratic house and senate. there was a lot of issues for the jobs bill as a whole. in particular, there parts of these that can pass on capitol hill. yes. that is something the republicans are willing to go on right now. the payroll tax and they may be able to bargain with the president if they can get lower things. this idea of the pass this bill and pass this bill, that's not going to happen. they have drawn the line there pretty hard. >> kristin, i wanted to pick up on that. he is urging people to call their elected officials. coerce them to vote for the bill. does the administration believe that will happen given that connell and boehner started saying? >> i asked administration officials that question earlier today and the response was they believe they have the will of the american people on their side. the president's approval ratings may be at record lows. there is still about 30 points higher than congress's approval ratings. they believe congress understands the american people want to see action on this jobs plan. you mentioned he will be in north carolina tomorrow. that's another battle ground state. the white house really right now taking the strategy that they are going to put the pressure on the american people, explain this american jobs act to the american people so that the american people can in turn put the pressure back on congress. the president in battle ground states tomorrow. the officials said he will be visiting other states in coming weeks. >> thank you for joining us. as the president takes his jobs plan on tour, there is distressing d distressing data about the number of americans living in poverty. it hit an alarming spike of 15.1%, the highest level since 1993. indeed the total number of people living below the poverty line, a family of four earning about $22,000 a year or less is the largest it's been in 52iers. my next guest has been traveling with the caucus jobs fair this summer. i am delighted to say a democrat from california joins us now. in the weeks leading up to the jobs speech, you urged him to go big. you wanted him to go bold. is this the plan that you wanted that he announced last week? >> the plan first of all is really an excellent first start. i want to see it much bolder and larger, but i understand the political realities of what he is dealing with. the obstruction of the republican tea party who have not presented any jobs bills since they have been in power. we have to move forward and have as comprehensive of a plan that we can get. when the president completes his visits to the states, i think that many of the tea party republicans will realize that their constituents are desperate for jobs. they are desperate for unemployment compensation. they want to work right now. we have only one job for every four individuals. that is a shame and disgrace. poverty rates are increasing. that's a direct result of the bush economic policies. the wealthy got all the tax breaks. >> you are pleased with the president's plan in large part. we have heard congressional leaders talking about concerns with regard to higher taxes on those making more than $200,000 per year. is this going to come down to another debacle where the president frankly is railroaded into a bunch of spending cuts, but nothing else? >> i don't believe the country can tolerate that. i don't believe the republican tea party constituents will allow that to happen. they will not, i don't think, at the peril of their constituents resist this entire package. we have to work very hard to make sure that most of it gets passed. these investments in infrastructure and making sure the school that is our children go to school with and the bridges and roads are fixed. this is not only important to democrats and republicans, but to the country and constituents. we are going to fight hard to make sure. we will have a fight. nobody expects this not to be easy, but we had many fights before. i hope that in the process that the american people call their members of congress, e-mail them and say loudly and clearly, we are desperate and need jobs and unemployment composition and with the poverty rates, i hope the 99ers get a shot at the fra 14 weeks in unemployment compensation. millions have hit the 99-week wall. they can't even survive because they are ineligible for unemployment. that's the bill. hr 589, i am asking people to call congress and ask them to support. we can't tolerate this much longer. people in minority communities, when you look at the rates, you look at 16 to 20% in the african-american and the latino and asian community and you look at a national average of over 9%. this is a moral disgrace in the richest and most powerful country in the world. it's our duty and ob ga diminution to make sure everyone has an opportunity to live the american dream. this is turning into a nightmare for many people. >> we hope there will be consensus. thank you for joining us. >> coming up, more bad news for news corps executive, james burr dock. a total recall in he said she said. there's another way to help eliminate litter box dust: purina tidy cats. tidy cats premium line of litters now works harder on dust. and our improved formulas neutralize odors better than ever in multiple-cat homes. so it's easier to keep your house smelling just the way you want it. purina tidy cats. keep your home smelling like home. helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. and i was a pack-a-day smoker for 25 years. i do remember sitting down with my boys, and i'm like, "oh, promise mommy you'll never ever pick up a cigarette." i had to quit. ♪ my doctor gave me a prescription for chantix, a medication i could take and still smoke, while it built up in my system. [ male announcer ] chantix is a non-nicotine pill proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some of these can be life-threatening. if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, tell your doctor if you have new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack. dosing may be different if you have kidney problems. until you know how chantix affects you, use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. ♪ my benjamin, he helped me with the countdown. "5 days, mom. 10 days, mom." i think after 30 days he got tired of counting! [ male announcer ] ask your doctor about chantix. over 7 million people have gotten a prescription. learn how you can save money and get terms and conditions at chantix.com. learn how you can save money and get terms and conditions wso to save money, i trained my dog and this cockatoo to play all the hits of the '80's woman: hit it, mr. butters. ♪ ♪ take on me... ♪ ....take on me ♪ take me on... anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. coming up next, his sudden death shocked the world. a jury will decide whether michael jack's doctor should share in the guilt. ♪ [ sighs ] [ bird chirps ] [ bird squawks ] ♪ [ bird screeching ] ♪ [ elevator bell dings ] [ sighs ] how mad is she? she kicked me out. but i took the best stuff. i'll get the wrench. ♪ [ male announcer ] kohler's tresham collection. life. with a twist. ♪ while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one. i'm not looking forward to my flight. try this. bayer aspirin? i'm not having a heart attack. it's my back. no, this is new bayer advanced aspirin... clinically proven to relieve tough pain twice as fast as before. what, did you invent this or something? well, my team did. i'm dr. eric first, from bayer. wow. look. it has microparticles. it enters the bloodstream faster and rushes relief right to the site of pain. better? great! thanks. [ male announcer ] new bayer advanced aspirin. extra strength pain relief. twice as fast. test our fast relief. love it, or get your money back. to the courts where jury selection is under way in the trial of dr. conrad murray. the personal physician accused of killing one of the greatest stars of music that ever lived. the king of pop, michael jackson. it was june 25th, 2009 when the world was stunned, almost speechless when news emerged that mr. jackson had been found dead in a mansion in california. they determined his death was caused by a lethal dose of propofol that he had been using as a treatment for insomnia. it came three weeks before he was due to launch a major come back tour that included no less than 50 concerts worldwide. sadly not a single concert took place. dr. murray is charged with involuntary manslaughter and could face four years. for more on the case, i am joined by jamie floyd, the attorney and the managing editor of the world report. given michael jackson's worldwide fame, i guess the idea of jury selection is challenging. >> to say the least. the judge asked any among you who never heard of conrad murray or this case, please raise your hand. i guess you will be not surprised to hear not a soul in the room raised his or her hand. every person has heard at least something about the case. the constitution doesn't guarantee you a group of ignorant people who know nothing, but a jury of your peers who can be fair zeechlt seen in recent high profile cases, casey anthony and robert blake and going back to o.j. simpson. you can get a fair trial. >> in the casey anthony case, the jury was sequestered. >> yes. here they will not be. studies have shown that it doesn't always benefit the defense. they can go home and relax and put it aside. they cannot consult the internet and media and they are not supposed to sweet or look at facebook, but the judge may have made the right decision for both parties. >> there is some suggestions and rumors from the defense, they are shaping up to suggest that mr. jackson may have died as a result of self administering drugs, maybe propofol or other drugs. is that viable given that he is supposedly the qualified doctor. he is paid to care for him. >> if you look at the papers and the pretrial motions, that's part of what we have thus far. it's early. we haven't even gotten to the first bit of real evidence in the case. this is a legitimate defense. this is a manslaughter case. part of this isallied by the prosecutors. this is not a bar fight which is one of the classic involuntary fact patterns. what are the other possible defenses? that the victim was an independent actor who interfered in a way that caused his own death or that third party actors now caused his death. third party doctors that have been suggested by the defense papers and others. or others that are thus far unknown. >> the until community made it clear that anesthetics like propofol which is so lethal should only take place in a hospital setting. what possible defense does he have for allowing this to take place in someone's residential home? >> involuntary manslaughter is about recklessness. it's about criminal negligence. that's how a lay person would about it in and an absence of malace. every doctor that i talked to said you would never administer this in a home. only a support setting. thatoes to his license as a doctor and not necessarily to criminal culpability and not to a guilty verdict. >> thank you very much for joining us. we will be following the dr. murray trial throughout. for the latest, be sure to follow us on twitter. as always we invite you to follow the show on facebook where this interview with jamie floyd will be posted shortly. >> if james murdoch thought one appearance before the house of commons of enough, you need to start preparing for a second. he had given evidence in july to a committee investigating illegal phone hacking on news of the world newspaper. that harp has been shot down. a string of news corps executives contradicted the testimony and they decided they would like to clear up the confusion. this latest coincides with the news that the australian government is also taking steps to launch an inquiry into murdoch's news limited that currently controls some 70% of the newspapers in australia, including the nation's only national newspaper. the terms of the investigation are still unknown, but it's understood that the main focus will be on privacy and adding strength to those who keep an eye on the media's behavior. in the northern and now the southern hemisphere, the media empire is under scrutiny. the british parliament recalled his son for questioning. they decided against recalling rupert murdoch himself. an attack on the em bagszy in kabul. stay with us. [ telephone rings ] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa auto repair. gary... he hung up. ...why do we have so many a's in our name? so we're listed first in the phone book. ya know, gives us an edge. you know fedex can, give us an edge. how? well, fedex ships auto parts from factories around the world, they clear em through customs, and that'll help us fix cars faster. great idea. you know you got a bright future here at aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... [ male announcer ] supply chain solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. whose non-stop day starts with back pain... and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach. ♪ why did you buy my husband a falcon? thanks for the falcon. i didn't buy anyone a falcon. sure, you did. you saved us a lot of money on auto insurance. i used that money to buy a falcon. ergo, you bought me a falcon. i should've got a falcon. most people who switch to state farm save on average about $480. what they do with it, well, that's their business. oh, that explains a lot, actually. [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] another reason people switch to state farm. aw, i could've gotten a falcon. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. [ falcon screeches ] . >> milissa ray berger is in the newsroom. >> nato aircraft are providing support for security forces as they battle insurge epts in kabul. at least seven were involved in a series of coordinated attacks targeting the u.s. embassy, nato headquarters and police buildings. the white house said the attack will not deter their mission there. the search for gadhafi continues as nato pounds a number of key targets in progadhafi strongholds. they struck eight surface to air missiles and several armed vehicles near the hometown of sert. in a brief message on television yesterday, they urged loyalists to keep on fighting. it has been three weeks since the revolutionary forces captured tripoli. >> thank you so much. coming up next, made in manhattan nchlt it's not just wall street to blame for this financial mess. stay with us. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion. they're making him triple double. why? this! new triple double oreo. ♪ yo stufy, come here! [ shoes squeaking ] looked better on paper. [ strike! ] is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. >>. >> let's take a look at how stocks are doing. we are to the positive. you have the dow up by 35 points and the s&p up by nine. a 33-point gain with the nasdaq. the number of people living in poverty has climbed to more than 15% and the heightest levels since 1983 in close to home numbers. that means in six is poor and uninsured. that is it from cnbc. back over to you. >> thank you, amanda. for more on the economy with stung new figures revealing a depressing sign of the economy. america's poverty rate reaching an 18-year high. now standing at 15.1%. the news hasn't been much better on wall street. it was bank of america announcing the layoffs of 30,000 employees. every day the market swings wildly with so many families struggling to rebound and with stand this economic crisis. what can be done to protect our economic future. the next guest has written a book that examines the big picture. how we got into this mess and who is to blame from maine street to wall street. all the devils are here. the hidden history of the financial crisis. i am delighted to say that bethany joins us now. you are quick to point out that people tend to blame the crisis on wall street and bankers. you say there is no specific group responsible. why? >> the causes of this crisis are multifacet and stretch back decades and span a range of people from politicians to regulators to bankers and in some cases homeowners. it spans the continent from wall street to washington to the epicenter of southern california. >> it was almost as if you were saying this is about the psychology of groed and egos. a entire to make more with the single homeowner. the shares like this. >> the way in which this psychology from greed leads to a mass delusion. they say wasn't it obvious? it becomes almost a form of delusion. >> since 2008, there have been attempts to introduce protective measures, new legislation. do you think any of the measures that have been introduced since 2008 would prevent this from happening again? >> i don't. the dodd frank reform legislation and important parts of still bogged down and congressional wrangling and we don't know what it will look like. i am wary in general of the ability to ever fully protect us. they tend to regulate to fix the crisis before. regulators are important to. it's will to regulate that was missing the last time around. >> as you look out into the future, this is more about human nature and the propensity to do the wrong thing as opposed to the government upon us. >> it's about human nature and one of the things that makes us more inclined to do the wrong thing was the lack of responsibility and incentives that are oriented towards the short-term gain. i don't think we are going to fix anything. >> author of remind me of the name of the book? >> all the devils are here. >> thank you very much for joining us. the republican field we well know is hardly set in stone. at last night's debate. they throw punches and do some damage and rick perry was everyone's favorite target and the punches seemed to land. a republican strategist and a columnist with the hill and julian is a democratic strategist and if i can ask you both, let's go through the greatest hits. why not start with a controversial topic like social security. let's watch. >> the question is, do you still believe that social security should be ended as a federal program as you did six months ago and returned to the states. >> we will have that conversation. >> we're are having that right now. we aare running for president. >> rather than try to scare the seniors and other people, it's time to have a legitimate conversation. >> the term ponzi scheme is what scared seniors. >> did rick perry make any headway in getting away from the issue and clearing it up? >> mitt romney did himself a lot of favors. he shows he can go on the offensive. that should serve him well should he be the nominee. rick perry is sort of trial by fire now. he is new to this and he sort of ahead his own. the reason they were going through this exercise is to get the myths out of the way. what was said and what wasn't said and give them an opportunity to pivot and talk about what they may look to do to fix the system. even if it was uncomfortable. >> do you think that perry took bad hits? are step back for a second and look at the entrance into the race changed. a month ago all of the candidates were talking about the obama economy. now all anybody is talking about is which republican candidate is going to go after social security harder. this is what happens when you cater to the tea party. the tea party has a favorability rating of 31%. it has an unfavorable rating of 51%. it seems as if to use the line from the one flew over coo coo's nest all of them want to cater to the extreme. the dilemma for govern nor perry is that he is on record saying that social security is a fraud and odd to be ended. he is trying to back out of that. he has the option between an extreme and untenable position or flip flopping on the other hand. this is one of the three threads that are going to bring his numbers down. o we want nothing more than a perry nominee. >> they are sure to be part of this presidential campaign. take a listen to this. >> that is the american way. no matter how you got into that state from the standpoint of your parents brought you there or what have you. that's what we have done in the state of texas. >> the american way is not to give taxpayers benefits to people who have broken our laws and here in the united states illegally. that is not the american way. >> he was talking about the tea party and which have those two was more reasonable and more attractive to tea party supporters? mr. perry's position or miss bachman? >> the whole thing about the tea party existing as a party is a myth. >> we are aware of that. don't worry. >> the debate last night was specifically for the tea party. it was not the republican party. the issue of illegal immigration, the polar opposite of immigration which is democr course, is securing the borders. and that's what the american people want and there's not really a party label with that. >> julian -- >> people are then going to be willing to look at other measures once you show that you can secure the borders. >> indeed. julian, i got the impression that mr. perry's view on immigration would be attractive, particularly to independents. >> well, to independents, martin, but also to hispanics. one of the things that's killing the republican party, one of the reasons their favorability, their brand is so low, at 33% according to a poll yesterday, they're scaring away the independents with all the extremist talk regarding to the tea party and scaring away key demographic groups like the hispanics. governor perry, the one instance he steps into a moderate position by saying that children of illegal immigrants ought to at least be able to have an education, a fair shot at education, he gets booed by the entire audience. that just lets you know exactly where the tea party is and why they're dragging this republican party to an untenable position. they're getting killed because of the loss of hispanic support. >> you've made that point. take a listening to congressman ron paul now, talking texas taxes and he injected a little bit of humor into the debate. >> my taxes have gone up. our taxes have doubled since he's, in office. our debt -- our spending has gone up -- our debt has gone up nearly triple. so, no, and 170,000 of the jobs were government jobs, so i would put a little damper on this, but i don't want to offender the governor, because he might raise my taxes or something. >> now, cheri, we've been sold this line by governor rick perry that he's a genius when it comes to state economics and yet there you have a fellow republican, ron paul, casting some aspersions on his success. >> oh, i don't think that governor perry has gone around claiming to be a genius, but there's no question that jobs have done -- they've done pretty well with job creation under him, whether in the private sector or government or government policies, rather, seems to be where the debate is. this would have been a really great opportunity, however, last night, for these republican candidates to start talking about the abysmal job that the current resident of the white house has on jobs and this rather untenable bill that he's come up, where he wants to now tax people who make only $200,000 a year to pay for another, yet another failed spending program. so now he's hitting the consumer class, not even the very rich. and that's what they should have been talking about, is obama's war on now consumerism that feeds the economy. so i think they really missed an opportunity last night. >> there you go, criticism from cheri. but julian, what do you think of the attacks on the president last night? >> well, that's the point. they're not attacking the president, they're attacking each other. the record in texas, as ron paul was pointing out, higher taxes, higher debt, mostly government jobs. the question is whether romney, whether perry can withstand the infratricide that is occurring right now. it looks as though perry's numbers are going to drop. again, rather than talking about obama, they're going after each other, and from a democrat's point of view, that's great. >> cheri jacobus and julian epstein, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon and we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] do you know how you will react when someone changes lanes without warning? or when you're distracted? when you're falling asleep at the wheel? do you know how you'll react? lexus can now precisely test the most unpredictable variable in a car -- the driver. when you pursue perfection, you don't just engineer the world's most advanced driving simulator. you engineer amazing. ♪ you engineer amazing. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. whose non-stop day starts with back pain... and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach. ♪ our neighbors putting their lives on the line. and when they rely on a battery, there are firefighters everywhere who trust duracell. so, look for these special packs to see how you can help your local volunteers. duracell. trusted everywhere. it's time now to clear the air. all the pundits had been speculating that after her decline in the polls and her less than scintillating appearance in our own msnbc politico debate last week, michele bachmann needed to deliver a big performance last night in order to reestablish her candidacy, and boy, did she give it a try. perhaps unsurprisingly, she built her strategy on criticizing the front-runner, rick perry, especially on the issue of vaccinating young women to prevent them from contracting the hpv virus which can lead to cervical cancer. it was her view that mandating parents to do so was wrong and that young girls should not be subjected to such an approach to public health. now, of course she's entitled to her own opinion, but it's worth noting that medical experts around the world are persuaded by the evidence and many governments believe that this vaccine is an important weapon for women in the fight against cancer. and this is politics, and i guess michele bachmann decided this was her best hope for making an impact. but this morning, the candidate went much further. much further. she made an assertion on the "today" show which could have very serious ramifications if allowed to go unchallenged. she claimed that following the debate a mother came up to her in tears and made a disclosure about her own daughter's experience of the hpv vaccine, and here's what michele bachmann claims the mother said. >> i had a mother last night come up to me here in tampa, florida, after the debate, she told me that her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. >> if it is true that serious mental illness has been caused by the hpv vaccine, then this is a staggering consequence and is likely to influence millions of parents. although he was struck off and had his license revoked many years ago, the bogus research of dr. andrew wakefield on the mmr vaccine, which he claimed was the cause of autism, has continued to confuse parents and even led to the rise in some potentially fatal conditions. and that's why michele bachmann's comments this morning are so serious and potentially so dangerous. we contacted the department for health and human services and were told that the very worst side effect that they had seen were rare cases of an flak sis, that's an allergic reaction to the vaccine. but not a single case of mental retardation has been reported anywhere by anyone. now, of course, the parent who apparently spoke to miss bachmann may not be a doctor and her observations are understandably difficult to verify. but as for michele bachmann, this is no longer about her own political aspirations, it's about her own truthfulness. she needs to refer that mother and daughter immediately to medical experts so that a proper clinical assessment can be made, and then they can inform us as to whether there is any basis for the suggestion that a child became mentally retarded after