>> howard and phyllis was a retail chain owned by the family of buck mckeon. all kinds of boots, shirts, ten gallon hats, and they did very well. they expanded in the 90s, quite a bit, all over the western states. i think they had up to 50 to stories at one point. and then things went south. they hit some bad times. >> they had some bad times, then what happened? >> they filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy. >> that's right. in 1996, buck mckeon's family business took advantage of the old american right, the ability to get from under your debt. wow. so why would his committee deny