to employees who were paid by a private for-profit company could simultaneously be on the corporate dole -- government dole so they don't have to pay actual fair wages. so the actions we have yet to see are really going to tell the tale. >> christopher, maybe is this a great first step? these 200 ceos are opening the door to say we care about all stakeholders and providing real value to our employees. now that they have said that, can't one put their feet to the fire and say, all right, let's go, deliver. >> well, one could. again, we are talking about two realms here. action and rhetoric. as you just pointed out, ceo pay is the highest level it's been in decades. the business roundtable has been diligently lobbying to increase ceo pay for decades. that's what they do. now the question is what comes next. and a lot of options are on the table. for example, in germany, you have members of labor who can sit on the board of directors