prevented from testifying in the first place. to say the u.s. ambassador or the deputy assistant secretary of state is somehow working on hearsay, that's how the government works on foreign policy. we have to hear from the white house about what the president's views are and execute those views abroad. i don't think the hearsay argument is very credible at all. >> look ahead to next week when the eu ambassador gordon sondland is to testify. you have worked in this atmosphere, would it be unusual if you called up the president, ambassador calling him from a restaurant in kiev? >> yeah. super weird. first of all not a secure call which is a very bad thing. the russians probably knew everything that happened on that call, something we need to keep in mind, and very unusual for an ambassador just to take a phone call from the president of the united states in a cafe. that doesn't happen. usually these are on secure lines, et cetera. they're well prepared. this doesn't happen on a day-to-day basis. it tells me the president of the united states, not people around him, the president of the united states, is quarterbacking this whole effort.