i think it's absolutely legitimate for the speaker to engage in this strategy. i think it can be effective for a couple of reasons. one, you have donald trump having a very different and i think frankly misguided from his own interest view in wanting to see more of a public show. that's always been i think through all of this, that's been his achilles heel. at the same time, you have a small handful of republicans who i think are quietly behind the scenes interested in a more fair trial than trump wants. and are willing to work with schumer if they don't do so publicly. so i think if she buys time for all that to play out and adds leverage and pressure to let that play out, i think it'll be a winning strategy for her in the end. >> what -- what does success look like? if everybody's success is based on what the outcome of a trial would be, that's not a whole lot of mystery in the air right now about what an outcome of a senate trial would be. so what's the importance of -- of mitch mcconnell doing the right thing in terms of a trial that seems fair to the american