the tea party contingent is creating a lot of uncertainty. >> this was an agreement between the bipartisan senate leaders and myself. it is what's doable. and i think we can get there. >> mr. speaker, is it fair to say you have a bit of a rebellion on your hands, or do you feel -- >> oh, i've got a little rebellion on my hands every day. it comes with the territory. >> you're not worried? >> never let them see you sweat. >> there you go. nbc's luke russert who never lets anyone of us see him sweat, he's been following it on capitol hill. break it down. where is the magic number for boehner, and is this bill really dead as so many senators on the democratic side have said when it arrives to them? >> well, let's start with the number that came out last night, thomas. obviously this bill will raise the debt limit by $900 billion with $917 billion in spending cuts. that is an effort to make it more appropriate for a lot of house conservativconservatives. that being said john boehner met with his conference, they admitted they do not have the 217 needed in the majority of the house of representatives, that said, they feel they have a clear path there they'll get by the time the vote is around 6:15 tonight. it was a pep rally atmosphere in the house gop conference meeting, our own producer said mike kelly stood up and said let's go knock the snot out of them and substitute another word for snot in there and everybody was yelling and screaming trying to garner momentum saying they can't not leave speaker boehner without leverage it has to pass or the house republicans will not get anything from the white house or the senate. if it does pass the house, it's expected to go to the senate probably tomorrow or over the weekend. after that it becomes anyone's guess. there's been a letter, 51 republican -- 51 democratic senators, 2 independents saying they will not let it go through. it looks like the final bill that will avert a default will be some sort of compromise of possibly harry reid attaching an amendment to the house boehner bill that makes it more appealing to democratic senators and then possibly be signed by the president. house republicans' goal, though, here, thomas, is the boehner bill to be the last thing standing. meaning go all the way to the deadline, there's no compromise and take it or leave it is the only thing to get through the house. be very interesting to see if it can get through the house today on its maiden voyage. they are confident the house gop team, they are confident they will get a winner tonight, thomas. >> luke russ certain for us on capitol hill. thank you. we told you the white house press secretary jay carney will be talking this morning and he's just arrived at the podium. let's listen in. >> -- for obvious reasons on one stalemate and there's another one that affects the economy and jobs and that's why secretary lahood is here to speak with you. he'll take some questions afterwards, and then, like i said, i will follow him. and with that, i turn the podium over. >> good morning. since congress failed to pass an faa bill nearly 4,000 faa employees have been furloughed, and as many as 70,000 construction workers across america are out of work. important airport modernization projects have been shut down in every state in the country. and let me just say parenthetically, one of the highest unemployment segments in the country is in the construction area. in the building trades. and for all of my friends on capitol hill who give speeches every day about jobs, the importance of jobs, putting people to work, this is not the time to be laying off 70,000 construction workers. these are friends and neighbors to people who live in communities. these are people who work hard and we're right smack dab in the middle of the construction season. this is -- this is not the time to be laying off 70,000 people. i have been meeting with and talking to members of congress from both sides of the aisle, asking them to pass another clean extension of the faa bill, which they have done on 20 occasions. so, they need to come back to the negotiating table. congress needs to pass a clean bill so our 4,000 faa employees, who were without a paycheck since last saturday, can come back to work. these construction projects can start again. our friends and neighbors can go back to work. i think if some of you have been paying attention, you know that i've said we have the safest and the best aviation system in the world. this is not the way to run it. to have 4,000 of our people that run the system not at their desks, not doing their work. and to have these construction projects suspended. transportation has always been bipartisan. i served on the house transportation committee for three terms. it was always bipartisan. it's always been bipartisan. and i ask congress in a bipartisan way to come back, pass a clean bill, finish the negotiations, and then get to a bigger faa bill. >> with that, take questions, erika, start with you. >> mr. secretary, do you have any advice to your former house gop colleagues on dealing with the debt ceiling? >> as some of you know, i've been in public service, in politics 35 years, 17 years as a staffer, 14 years as a member, and now 2 1/2 years in this job. during the time that i was a staffer, i was chief of staff for bob michael, who served during the time that ronald reagan was president and tip o'neil was speaker of the house. during the time that bob foley was speaker, bob michael was also the republican leader. and during the time that president clinton was president, bob michael was republican leader. that whole period of time was a very rich history and legacy of compromise. that's how congress has always solved problems, through compromise, through people working things out, through people putting aside their own agendas and their own egos, deciding what's important for the american people. this is a time that i think most of us that have watched politics have never seen before. because there are people in congress who don't like the word compromise, who don't believe in it. that's what we need today. we need for people to come together, set aside their own egos, a certain part of their own agenda, for the american people. to make sure we maintain the strongest economy in the world, to send a signal to the world that we can get big things done, we can -- washington can still get big things done. this is about continuing to have a strong economy and continuing to compromise and take maybe a couple chapters out of tip o'neil, bob michael, ronald reagan, president clinton, people that have served in this town with distinction and gotten big things done through compromise. >> jay? >> some house republicans said that they've already compromised and that's what the boehner bill is, it is a compromise. >> well, i'm going to let jay -- >> oh, come on! >> i'm going to let jay do his job here. i'm not here to take his job. i'm here to try and put forth a message that in one of the highest unemployment sectors in the country, where we have friends and neighbors all over the country that are out of work during the construction season, they ought to go back to work. they shouldn't be held hostage. these projects shouldn't be held hostage, and we have 4,000 faa employees through no -- hardworking people that come to work every day and do their jobs. >> can you explain what the bottleneck is on the faa bill, from your perspective? >> yes, certainly i can. it's the idea that there's a couple of provisions that could probably be worked out if they would pass a clean extension again, as they've done on 20 other occasions, as congresses always have done, that could probably be worked out i think within the next 30 days. in my discussions with people in leadership in both the senate and house, they believe the labor issue and the essential air service issue, those are probably the two big issues. there are a few little ones. probably could be worked out over the next 30 days, and that's really what i've been saying to members of congress. don't hold hostage common, ordinary citizens who want to work, who want to do construction jobs, who make their living doing that, and our faa employees. it's just -- it's not the way -- it's not really the way to run the best aviation system in the world. bill? >> mr. secretary, without the faa there, there's nobody to collect the federal tax on airline tickets, so what's happening to that money? is it going back to customers and consumers? >> well, i have talked to the largest aviation association here in washington that represents all the airlines, and i've told them that i'm not happy about the fact that they continue to add to citizens' ticket price. now, these are people who are planning vacations, who are planning to fly, people who live on a budget. they're collecting this money, and it's going to their bottom line, and i think that is not right, and i simply think it's not fair for them to do that. and i've made -- i've made that known to them. i think the airlines should not be collecting this amount of money under the umbrella that it's a tax. it's not. they shouldn't be collecting it, and they shouldn't be adding it on to passengers' price of a ticket. >> it's not their money. it's theft, isn't it, if they're taking money that's due the federal government and putting it in their own pocket? >> look, treasury's working on this and we're working with treasury on it, and the important point is here, passengers shouldn't have to be paying this particular amount of money. they shouldn't. dave? >> mr. secretary, can you talk about the deal that's going to be announced tomorrow between the auto companies and the administration to hike fuel efficiency standards? >> well, you know, if i want to keep my job, the last thing i'm going to do is talk about what the president's going to talk about tomorrow. >> come on. >> i know maybe i don't look very smart, but i have -- i have survived 35 years around here. stay tuned, dave. yes, sir? >> mr. secretary, you are doing a good job. >> ah, thank you! >> my question is, mr. secretary, as part of the international partners of concern, what we are hearing from them of security concern and also u.s. media has a -- where do we stand? >> i'll be happy to talk to you offline on this. i don't know that there are very many other people in this room that care about india/u.s. relationships when it comes to aviation which, by the way, is pretty good. anybody else on this subject? >> yes, on the aviation subject, sir. >> okay. >> to what extent do you think it has been caught up in the tone and the rough-and-tumble of the overall debt ceiling aspect? >> you know, that's a good question. i don't happen to believe it has. because when i've talked to members of congress, particularly those that are in leadership, this really is, i think, some people's way of saying that these two issues that i mentioned, the eas, the essential air service and the union provision, they want to get to those. they want to get them solved. i think it can be done with a clean bill, another extension, i think it could be done very quickly with the discussions i've had with people in leadership in the house and senate, and i really hope that will happen. >> well, given the current situation, is there any hope that your issue is going to be handled before they deal with the debt ceiling issue? >> we've been listening to secretary ray lahood, transportation secretary introduced by jay carney. secretary lahood is addressing the situation right now on the hill dealing with the faa and the issue that he faces because of airport construction projects that have come to a ground halt because funding has run out, 4,000 faa workers have been furloughed over the weekend and they're not coming back to work until congress can get something passed, an extension that has happened since 2007, since they don't have a complete budget, they've been getting these little extensions over the last four years. they need to make another one so that they can get these other projects that are happening at major airports around the country like in palm springs, california, kalamazoo, michigan, gulfport, mississippi, roughly projects totaling $142 million, but they're going no where right now because the debt duel is taking all the oxygen out of the room on congress' hill. in just a moment we'll hear from a house republican on the talks, but right now the heads of american banks are urging the president and the congress to get the deal done, they point out the economy remains very fragile and wall street stocks have been slipping as the debt talk rages on. the dow dropped nearly 200 points yesterday, but today a bit of a bounceback so far. cnbc's senior analyst and commentator ron insana joins me with a look at all of this. five days out, a lot of people are wondering, why does america need to be dragged to the brink when we are in such a fragile state right now in recovery? >> unfortunately, thomas, it seems that the way current washington works, you know, the notion of us being a tipping-point society is being proved on a daily basis. and i think, you know, wall street may be, you know, somewhat nervous about this and showing moments of anxiety, as it did yesterday, some of the more arcane indicators aren't showing it, many feel that there will be a debt increase and we'll avoid default, but no one knows whether we'll avoid the debt downgrade from the major rating agencies, that's a question. but most think that wall street will get through it by the skin of our teeth, it would be nice if we could withhold the pay from the elected officials like they are doing with the faa employees, but that's not the case here. >> you would think that would be the case when election season comes back around, though. when we talk about the debt downgrade, that's where it gets iffy for consumers, while everybody is watching this and saying, okay, guys, get it together, they won't feel the effects unless we get the debt downgrade. >> that's probably true. and even if we get it, it's uncertain as to whether or not interest rates will spike up and affect credit card loans, car loans, mortgages, student loans and the like. if the bond market is more worried about slowing economic growth, rates might fall even if the ratings agencies downgrade our debt, because recession would be a bigger worry than default, because ultimately i don't think the united states, however crazy this moment might seem, will default on its obligations. and it's a mixed picture right now. today we got some very good news on the employment front. jobless claims fell below 400,000 for the first time in many, many weeks and that's good news which may be one reason why the stock market's holding up reasonably well. but there is going to be this balancing act about worries about slower growth and the debt rating that could lead to higher interest rates. in event, if you get a rise in interest rates, you get smaller bond growth. higher rates or a recession that causes lower rates, i know that sounds complicated, but it's pretty crazy. >> ron, just the tone on wall street in general right now is what? >> everybody's had it. it doesn't matter if you are on main street or wall street, it's unconscionable, it doesn't matter where you are. analysts traveling overseas are embarrassed, they are hearing from overseas contacts that it's wildly inappropriate for the world's largest nation, the biggest economic superpower in the world to be behaving like in many ways countries that have much deeper problems than we do, there's a great degree of embarrassment, frustration, whether it's on wall street or main street or the business community more directly, i think everybody is throwing their hands up. i think people still assume some sort of deal will be done, it won't be optimal, but most people have hung their heads in shame even if they aren't in weren't. >> aren't we supposed to watch from the indicators from wall street to see exactly where we're supposed to be going with all this, everybody's been saying wall street is hanging on, hanging on, hanging on, they're not worried? >> i wouldn't say they've not been worried. i would say that they've been given private assurances that there won't be a default, maybe the government has another month's worth of money or a week's worth of money beyond the presumed deadline next week, there are those kind of things that are keeping the market relatively calm. if things truly break down and there's a default in sight and there's no movement on a long-term deficit reduction deal in any way, shape, or form, that's when you'll see the market worry and that's when washington may get wall street's religion. >> ron insana, great to talk to you this morning. thanks so much. i want to take you back to the white house briefing room. jay carney is now up to the podium, let's listen. >> the measure that's currently in the house. it also sets up a process, as the measure in the house does, to create a committee in congress that would address the issues that would be lost in this if we can't get a grand bargain at this moment which are the tough issues of tax reform and entitlement reform. and it would create a mechanism by which that committee would produce a product that would have fast track and status in an up-or-down vote. and it would be in the interests of all parties, and certainly this president, that the congress does take action. in fact, the committee, if it's set up through this mechanism, could use and should use that as a starting point a product that will get them very far down the road, if they're looking to find a balanced approach towards further deficit reduction through our looking at entitlement spending and spending in the tax code. and that's the plan and the compromise that was close to fruition. it was being worked on for so long by the speaker of the house, john boehner, and the president of the united states, the obama/boehner plan, if you will. that is a product that provides a lot of guideposts to how you get to a bipartisan compromise on those tough issues. so, really if we can't get that grand bargain, look, let me start, we still believe that's possible. that deal is on the table, if there's the political will to make it happen, it could happen before august 2nd. if that isn't possible before august 2nd, there are certainly -- what a compromise looks like is pretty clear. significant deficit reduction, a mechanism by which congress would take on the tough issues of tax reform and entitlement reform and a lifting of the debt ceiling beyond -- into 2013 so we do not have the cloud of uncertainty that is hanging over our economy right now and getting darker and stormier as every day passes for another three months, four months, five month, six months, ten months. we have to -- we have to -- our primary objective here has to be to protect the economy and protect the american people from economic harm. so, if everyone has that as an objective -- has that objective in mind as we move forward, compromise is pretty easy. >> and could you clarify, yesterday you said that treasury would detail prior to august 2nd who would get paid, who not, in event of a default? >> i appreciate the question, and i want to clarify what i said. i did i think, mark was sitting over there, in the radio seat, and he -- he asked a lot of questions and i said, you know, well said, and implied things, levels of specifics that i did not mean to. what i can tell you is that as we get closer to that date, treasury department will explain how it will manage the situation that is essentially an impossible situation. you know, i refer you to treasury for how that will look, but i think they will explain that when the time comes. i don't have any more specifics than that. karen? >> just to follow up on that. are you saying that you will prioritize the debt if you have to? >> look, i am saying that two things, first, we continue to believe and remain optimistic that congress will come to its senses, that cooler heads will prevail and that a compromise will be achieved. as i just spelled out, it really isn't that complicated at this point. what we need to do is get beyond, you know, voting on dead-on-arrival measures that won't become law when we have so few days left to reach a compromise. we need to get that kind of political theater out of our system and get to work on something that can actually pass both houses with bipartisan support and be signed by the president. we believe that's going to happen. it is a matter of due diligence and responsible governance that treasury will, if we approach that date as we get closer to that date, explain how it would manage a situation that would be created by the failure of congress to act and would create a situation where for the first time in our history, we have lost our borrowing authority and risked default, you know. i leave it to them to, you know, and to them and at that time to give further details on that process. >> you just said you think there will ultimately be a deal. you've been saying that all week. do you think that -- are you equally as confident that a downgrade of the credit rating could be avoided? >> well, here's what i know is that we control, we in washington and in particular in this case congress, controls our fate as regards whether or not we will lift the debt ceiling and allow the united states to continue to pay its bills and meet its obligations. the rating agencies are obviously independent, and it is up to them. what we can do is take actions that make clear that the united states is still the gold standard when it comes to investments, that it is the safest of safe harbors, as it has been for 100 years or more. and because washington functions and can compromise and can do the right thing by the economy. we do that and we think that will help enormously in terms of how international investors look at the united states and our treasuries as a potential place to put their money. >> what about staying in contact with the ratings agencies? is that something you're doing on a daily basis at this point? >> you know, i don't really have any information on that. i would refer you to treasury department for that. you know, i think treasury is the right place to answer that question. i don't know of any contact that we have here. jay? >> republicans in the house say that they're voting for a compromise, speaker boehner's bill is a compromise. >> and what is the compromise that is inside it? >> i don't speak for them, but i can tell you they say it doesn't cut as much as they want, it raises the debt ceiling, it does a number of things that they're not in favor of, they would like deeper cuts and some members of congress obviously don't want to raise the debt ceiling at all. so, if that is their attitude, why are you confident that speaker boehner can compromise any more? the president has spoken extensively about the difficulties boehner has with his caucus. >> we're confident because, jake, we believe that the american people have made clear that they want a compromise. they are so frustrated by what they see as dysfunction here, as unnecessary fighting over issues that could be and should be easily resolved. they want to see washington work on the problems that affect them directly. they don't want to see washington, because of partisan and political posturing, do things that actually hurt them economically, and there is no question that if congress does not compromise and does not act, that allowing the united states to default for the first time in its history would have severe economic consequences and would -- everyone, every family that owns a home and has a mortgage would be affected. every american who has a car and a car payment would be affected, a student loan, a credit card. and that's just the beginning of the terrible consequences. >> the facts have been true for months. >> it is. and, well, congress has a way of waiting until the last minute to do the right thing. we remain confident that it will. now, look, they said a lot of other things. if they think this is compromise, they said, as we heard today, let's stick it to them, or let's, you know, you know, speaker of the house said yesterday that his alleged bipartisan compromise bill is hated by the president, hated by the minority leader in the house and hated by the majority and leader in the senate. i think that demonstrates their view on whether or not this is a compromise. the truth of the matter is that it's not, and they've been quite clear about it. look, politics is part of this town. we understand that. we participate in it. and we -- and some of these things happen because they have to happen. part of the political process. but we are now at a moment where those americans who elected to represent people in their home districts and states need to decide, you know, about, you know, what is the greater good here. is it holding out to get exactly what you want? holding out for a bill, by the way, that creates a mechanism that would force the adoption of draconian cuts, more severe than are in the ryan budget that was rejected already by congress and overwhelmingly opposed by the american people? or is it a compromise where nobody gets everything they want, but the cloud of uncertainty on our economy is lifted and we make some significant cuts in our deficit and set up a mechanism to do even more? i think that is the compromise that people are looking for, and i believe, we believe, the president believes, that in the end that's the compromise we will get. >> isn't the boehner bill better than nothing? >> we don't believe that nothing is -- that's a false choice. nothing is not what will be the alternative here. compromise will be the alternative. everyone in this town, rather everyone who is elected in this town, is on the hook for the economy. everyone will have to answer to his or her constituents about what they did, where were they when decisions were made about whether or not to allow the united states to default, whether or not to allow everybody's interest rates to go up, whether or not to allow a situation that would severely impact the ability of the economy to create jobs. and i think in the end, enough members of congress of both parties will say we have to do the right thing here, even if it's not the ideal thing, and they will get it done. >> is there any negotiation going on specifically between vice president biden and the senate republican leader about what happens when and if the senate rejects the boehner bill, what happens then? >> well, the senate will reject the boehner bill. but the -- as it's been made clear by not just democrats but a number of republicans who reject the boehner bill in the senate. they reject it, okay? so there's no question that this bill is a political act that has no life beyond its current existence in the house. we are having conversations at every level. i'm not going to detail the individuals who are talking to members, but you can be sure that members of the president's team are continuing the conversations that we have been having for weeks and months, even, and that goes on every day. >> but there is a plan? >> look, there are a variety of ways to achieve a compromise here, and we are obviously, as are members and leaders of congress, engaged in discussions about what those plans look like and what the best way forward will be as the clock clicks down here, ticks down, sorry. yes, dan? >> thank you. plouffe this morning and also dan pfeiffer tweeting, were talking about the boehner bill and how it would mean dealing with the debt ceiling over the christmas holiday season, which is an important time for the economy. is this new narrative, then, suggesting that the administration would embrace some sort of two-stage plan if it's past the holiday season? >> no. we've always said we need to extend this to 2013. there are mechanisms, mitch mcconnell, speaking of the republican senate leader, had a proposal that would have created cycles of lifting the debt ceiling, but it would have made clear the whole idea of his proposal was to ensure that the debt ceiling -- there would be no doubt that the debt ceiling would be raised in order for the united states to pay its bills into 2013. so, there are different ways to do this. our objection is to any proposal that puts us through this three-ring circus again in any short period of time, because it's already had significant negative impact on the economy. it would only have even more and more severe negative impact on the economy. the reason why we talk about the holiday season is because as constructed now, the measure that the speaker of the house has put forward would almost certainly require this -- all of us -- to go through this again before the end of the year. in the most important economic season in the country and at a time when people don't want to worry about whether or not their interest rates are going to go up, their mortgage payments and car payments and student loan bills and their credit card payments, especially if they're buying gifts for the holidays. if we care about the economy, how could that possibly be the answer? it's not. so, we are opposed to that. for economic reasons. not political reasons. for economic reasons. you know, because one thing that's clear, dan, on the suggestion that this is about politics, i don't think anybody in this room who has looked at a poll could argue with the idea that we're winning this argument on the merits. as a political matter. but do you know what, the president's not here to win political arguments. he's here to make sure the economy is protected and the american people are protected. this is too serious a matter. we got to get this done and do it in a way that does not further harm the economy. >> are you admitting that you're losing the argument? >> no. didn't i just say we were winning it? that was the verb i used. >> okay, sorry. >> yes. >> i wondered. okay. when you talk about the -- >> i'm tired, but not that tired. >> when you talk about these conversations that are ongoing, are we talking about negotiations here or just talks, just back-and-forth phone calls? anything serious being negotiated behind the scenes? >> i think every conversation we have about this issue with every member of congress and every key staffer in congress is serious. and it's about -- and when it's about this issue, it is obviously a part of negotiations. but i don't have any more to tell you about specific ideas being traded or plans or proposals. just that you can be sure that we continued to have conversations, even as the house goes through this exercise that will not bring us any closer to compromise, because time is so tight, we are obviously continuing to have conversations with folks on the hill. >> will we hear from the president after the vote is taken in the house? >> i don't have any scheduling announcements to make about the president. as you know in this process, we have -- the president has come before you many times both to take your questions and to make statements and on occasion -- on the occasion monday night to speak to the nation directly during prime time. so, anything is possible. but i don't have any announcements to make. >> does the president still want to be part of the debate, or has he pretty much said now it's congress? >> no, i think that, first of all, he has been very visible in this, calling meetings, coming out and talking to you. the fact that he's not standing here in front of you i can assure you does not mean that he's not intensely engaged in this debate. because of his responsibilities, because of what he thinks is most important, which is that we ensure that we don't do anything that hurts the economy, that affects growth and job creation. so, he is absolutely engaged. >> what does the president and officials here believe they've achieved in the debt ceiling negotiations? the current bill that's being considered in the house and may become the vehicle in the senate does not include tax revenue, does not include the size of cuts that you'd like, does not include the types of agreements on long-term entitlement changes. what does the administration feel is achieved? >> well, we certainly haven't gotten an end result. what the president -- the president's primary goal here is that at the very least, and he said this several weeks ago, we make sure that we lift the cloud that's hanging over our economy and ensure that the united states does not default. there was a real and serious opportunity to do something far more significant, and as most of you here know, there was an immense amount of detail attached to the proposals that the president and the speaker were passing back and forth. there really is an opportunity here, if there is political will, there's a real opportunity here to do something significant. politically hard, but significant. and politically hard for democrats and republicans. and i know that's what the american people want and expect. so, that -- you know, however this short-term process ends, if you will, before august 2nd, whatever compromise we reach to lift that cloud, to make sure that we're locking in some significant deficit reduction, this conversation will continue. because what those -- in spite of the fact that the speaker walked away from the negotiations twice, they did outline together real areas of potential compromise for doing something significant, for tackling our deficits and debt in a way that would strengthen our economy, put our fiscal house in order, strengthen our entitlement programs, simplify our tax code, you know, a lot of really hard, good things. and the president will keep fighting to do that. >> you've used i've heard before about trains heading into the station. it seems like the only train heading into the station is the boehner bill. >> that's absolutely false. because the senator -- the senate majority leader has a bill that significantly cuts deficits more, reduces spending more. you're right, it doesn't include tax increases, any revenues in it up front, you know, and if you were a republican, you might say, well, gosh, that looks like a compromise to me in my direction, the size of the cuts. you might say, well, gosh, that's a compromise, the democrats have moved towards us on this. and the fact that it allows for this dollar-for-dollar requirement that is completely confected but has created a hostage situation in terms of our economy, it even does that. you might, if you were reasonable, say, as the republicans say, do you know what, i didn't get everything i wanted out of this, but i got a lot, and it's the right thing to do for the economy. that is -- look, what i know about is the speaker's proposal in the house right now, there are 55, 56, 57, 58, senators, republicans and democrats that oppose it, it ain't going anywhere in the united states senate, so we need to do start doing things that can actually pass both houses and be passed into law. >> so is one of the trains heading into the stations, i'm just surprised to hear you talk about the grand bargain again, that's now back on the table? >> it's never been off the table. you know, it's a fair question. it's never been off the table. >> spoken to the speaker in several days -- >> how do you know? i'm not going to detail conversations or name individuals. all i'm saying is the president was at the table. the potential agreement was on the table, the grand bargain, and the speaker walked away from the table. over an issue that can be resolved quite easily. if the political will is there, we can move back to those negotiations. if that isn't possible in the next five days, then there are ways that we can resolve this issue in a fair compromise that does the key things, which is lock in significant cuts and lift the cloud over our economy and ensure that we're not, you know, playing in this three-ring circus for the next six months. >> are you just raising that as sort of a hail mary pass, or could you give us any indication that that's really alive at all? >> well, look, i think i've indicated, and i will say it explicitly, that the chances aren't great that we end up between now and august 2nd with a sweeping, grand compromise between the republicans and the democrats that reduces the deficit $3 trillion to $4 trillion over 10 years, includes balance between entitlement reform and tax reform, that's not likely, but it's available if the political will is there. in the short term there are other options to do what we need to do at the bare minimum, and then we can return in a serious way to tax reform and entitlement reform. mr. henry? >> thank you, jay. i want to follow on to jake, when asked if the boehner bill was better than nothing. you seemed to indicate it's not better than nothing. so, i wanted to know what is the president willing to put on the table in the final hours if we're really in such a desperate situation, on spending cuts, will he give on having a debt ceiling vote early next year? what is he willing to put on the table now? >> i appreciate the question. the -- absent a willingness to do something big and historic on the part of the speaker and other republicans, our bill is -- you know, we have indicated pretty strongly our support for senator reid's bill, and what is he willing to do? he's willing to take the cuts put forward in speaker boehner's bill and increase them dramatically, which is what is in the speaker's -- in the senate majority leader's bill. he's willing to allow for a mechanism which he thinks is very important, if we can't get the grand bargain now, it would make it a time-specific period where the committee would consider these options. he will hand over the reams of paper to that committee that could form the basis of serious entitlement reform and tax reform in a bipartisan way and certainly is willing to consider measures that are enforcement mechanisms to move that process forward. what he is not willing to do is allow this obviously damaging situation, damaging to our economy, continue, you know, and it's -- you know, people have asked, and i can't remember if it was you or others about a previous vote. the fact that under previous presidents there have been numerous votes to raise the debt ceilings. while the fact is the votes were often unpleasant for congress, they were routine, and we never had a situation like this, where, you know, there were sometimes confrontations over this, and i read from the letter from president reagan. but the overwhelming number of times is congress acts because this was not a question. it wasn't this one-for-one thing, it wasn't a question that i am going to blow up the economy, if you will, if you don't do what i want. it's just crazy. >> what i hear you saying is he's still not happy with the boehner bill, he wants the reid bill and the reid bill doesn't get through the house and -- he's still willing to veto it and base clically all the awful consequences and the stock market crash and all the awful things, he's willing to let that happen? >> one of the things i've heard out of the house conference is the desire to stand firm and stick the president with default i think is one quote that came out of there which is really incredibly juvenile, right? is this the game, the idea here, that who can be blamed to doing serious harm to our economy? shouldn't the idea be what can we do to compromise to make sure it doesn't happen? first of all, the bill being considered in the house cannot be an option because it will not pass the senate. so, it's dead on arrival. >> it goes to the senate floor. >> well, you don't know that it can't pass the house before senator reid's measure is voted on. you don't know that -- until the votes happen that it won't emerge as a viable option. >> boehner may be the last thing standing, so if -- you'll go default? >> look, we've made clear how we feel about the boehner bill, the speaker boehner bill, because it is incredibly bad for the economy to have this kind of circus go on in washington with folks saying that we're going to force default, we will not let the united states pay its bills unless you do what we want. unless you enact spending cuts that were rejected already, that are more draconian than in the ryan bill, that would do significant damage to social security and medicare, force incredible cuts in education and clean energy programs, all these sorts of things, all these things that nobody -- nothing close to a majority supported and certainly not in the country. otherwise we'll just, you know, default. that's -- that's not a mechanism that is good for us, good for the economy, good for the american people, so that's what we oppose. beyond that, there are a lot of ways to get to compromise here, and that is what the american people i think really want us to do is to compromise, not stick it to anybody. not score political victories and see who can be blamed for the economic damage that would be done by the fight here. people want these fights to result in -- they're happy to have -- because they vote, you know, every two years, every four years for president, and obviously people feel strongly that they send representatives to congress with points of view and they want those points of views to be expressed and to guide votes. but in the end they want the fights to result in good things, not bad things. >> last thing, the 2008 campaign as a candidate the president said if he's elected, he put the health care negotiations on c-span, didn't happen, but he got the health care reform through, he later told "60 minutes" he regretted it, he said there's a price to that. people then felt that what's going on behind closed doors isn't so good for us and it hurt us politically. the last couple of days you seem to be arguing it's better to be doing it behind closed doors, because if it's public, interest groups will blow it up, right? do you have any regrets now that we're at the precipice that the president put some details on the table but if you'd put more details on the table earlier, you might be further along this process because it would have been more transparent? >> i appreciate the question, and the answer is, no, because if the president had gone into a room and said here's my bipartisan compromise, guess who would not have been in the room with him? a republican leader. okay? and his interests in the end was to sit down with the speaker of the house and other republican leaders, majority leader cantor as well, you know, and try to work out a deal. and understanding that this was politically hard, and if the only kind of compromise you could achieve would be one that was reached between the leaders and then presented to members of congress of both parties to evaluate, and then those who were the architects of the deal could say, here's why we think it is not perfect, but on balance, the right thing to do. and, you know, you're a veteran washington reporter, a lot of you here, i think we all understand how that works, that if you lay out a proposal that's politically hard -- by yourself that's extremely politically hard for your party, whether you're a republican or democrat, it's like putting a clay pigeon in the air. it's ensuring its defeat. and maybe that's a sad statement perhaps about how washington works, but it's an incredibly realistic statement about how washington works. and the fact of the matter now, ed, you know, i've talked about this and others, there is no plan that has been offered, certainly in the last several months, about which more detail is known or has been specified than the obama/boehner plan. okay? in terms of the cuts in domestic spending, the -- both defense and nondefense discretionary, the savings coming out of entigentit entitlement programs including medicare, medicaid, and social security, the kind of tax reform that was envisioned and the mechanisms by which tax revenue would be -- hard thing for republicans to accept, but was part of the deal, that would be $800 billion, that would be part of this proposal. everybody knows these details. there is -- there is -- and it's not that the people are hiding the details of the boehner plan or the reid plan, it's just, you know, there's a lot less to them than the plan that was worked on by the president and the speaker of the house. and now in the aftermath, the details of which are very well known by so many people. mike? >> you say everybody's on the hook for how they behaved in their votes on the economy and on this plan. does default inevitably arise if the debt ceiling is not lifted? >> the -- what happens if the debt ceiling is not lifted is that we lose our borrowing authority. >> that's different from default. >> correct. and we've been through this. i will at some point refer you to the transcript yesterday. but what happens then is that we no longer have the ability to borrow money, but we have bills coming due and a limited amount of cash in our pockets. even as money flows in, there's no question, because revenue flows in, it will not even come close enough to paying our bills, and that leads to a process of default. how quick that is is, you know -- depends on a lot of different factors and i refer you to treasury. and this is not -- the moment that we send the signal that the united states government has ceased -- no longer has the ability to borrow money but has bills that for every dollar we have in a bill, we only have 60 cents to pay, you've created essentially a crisis situation, what we've described as an impossible situation that leads to horrendous choices about how we go about paying our bills and making choices about which bills to pay and which not. >> i'll follow up, in your answer to air discretionary spending cuts, and mechanisms to create a committee to allow for hopefully further reductions through entitlement reform and tax reform. we remain confident that as these hours churn on and the days go by that we will get to that point and that compromise will be reached. but it is -- it is -- we are not the only actor in this play. we need to make sure that others understand the stakes and are willing to reach that compromise. we're confident they will. >> finally, you say this is a matter of economics, not politics. you're wanting to avoid another vote on raising the debt limit around christmas or whenever it is that the boehner plan would require a vote. but one of the agreements that's been on the table in virtually every compromise or every plan out there is for this super committee to come up with a way to handle entitlements and overhaul, comprehensive overhaul of the tax code by a date certain. that's no garden party right there. that would be an intense debate around the same time. that would speak to the government's ability, much like the debate we're having now, to handle debt and tell the world and rating agencies and market and everybody else -- >> no question. we would hope a bipartisan consensus and majority would be created out of that process to do something big and historic. it would be hard -- >> as wrenching as everything we are going through right now. >> not as wrenching as the potential for default in the first time in our history. that is the case. we cannot link the successful passage of further spending reductions through that process to raising the debt ceiling again precisely for the reason that you just enumerated. the reasons you just enumerated. we cannot hold the american economy hostage to that process. members of congress were sent here to make hard decisions and get things done, right, and they should be able to do that. look, we are open to and have always been open to, this was also part of some of the discussions that the president had, to mechanisms, enforcement mechanisms to force congress, whether it's through a committee or other means, to act on measures that would create more deficit reduction, entitlement reform and tax reform being the toughest ones. we are very much in favor of that, because we want the kind of damocles' sword hanging over congress to force it to act. what that enforcement mechanism cannot and should not and cannot be is if you don't do this, we won't extend the borrowing authority of the united states. so we go through this whole process again with all the resulting damage done to the economy, the uncertainty it creates. uncertainty we have been told and we agree by so many people from so many political persuasions is the number one thing that affects, that dampens economic growth or decisions made by private businesses about how are they going to invest and the kind of -- how they're going to hire. there is nothing comparable to the kind of uncertainty that this has created. let's get rid of it and move on. >> we have been listening to jay carney give a briefing this morning about what's taking place in washington, d.c. and republican congressman james lankford has been standing by patiently. he's a member of the house budget committee. good to have you on with me. i know you have been shaking your head as you listen to jay carney. first, do you support the boehner bill and during this briefing, we are hearing from jay carney this bill is d.o.a. if it gets to the senate. what is your response to that? >> it's very set. yes, i do support the boehner bill. let me tell you why. it begins to get the long-term problems of the nation, how we are going to spend structural issues. this has spending caps in it, it has a focus on the house and senate voting on a balanced budget amendment, it deals with discretionary spending. the other thing that really frustrated me with jay carney saying we need a compromise bill, how this bill came to be is we passed cut, cap and balance. the senate refused to even pick it up. so the speaker and harry reid sat down together over last weekend, worked out a compromise between their ideas, what came out of the biden commission and our ideas, and put together a compromise bill and right when we brought it out, the president contacts harry reid and says oh, no, you don't, you won't cut me out of this. he goes on television to shut it down. this has harry reid's select committee in it, it has the budget numbers from the biden talks and it has our cap and balance in it. this is the compromise bill and the president is adamantly opposed only because he was cut out of final negotiations on it. this is a compromise. >> what do you think about jay carney saying the grand bargain is still on the table? >> you know what, no one has seen the grand bargain. what i laughed about was he kept talking about no one has had more detail, there is no more detail than the president's plan. i haven't seen two pages of the president's plan. to be able to come out and continue to over and over again say reams of paper and this extensive plan. so far, they have yet to produce a plan. the senate has yet to pass anything. we are now going to pass our second thing and they are refusing to pick anything up. i don't think we're the ones not willing to compromise. the boehner plan is the compromise bill. this was worked out behind the scenes. all the details were in it that they wanted and we wanted. the president is just mad he was cut out so he's working to be able to kill it. that to me is really sad. >> five days to go. congressman, thank you, sir. appreciate it. we have breaking news we need to pass along right now. the associated press and newspapers in new jersey are reporting that new jersey governor chris christie has been taken to the hospital for tests after some difficulty breathing. christie's spokesperson is reported as saying the governor was taken to the hospital out of an abundance of caution and is doing fine. we will continue to monitor that story, get you an update in the next hour. stay right here on msnbc. contessa brewer picks things up. woman: saving for our child's college fund was getting expensive. man: yes it was. so to save some money, we taught our 5 year old how to dunk. woman: scholarship! woman: honey go get him. anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com. get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... 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