and what you're gonna do to address the big issues that the voters care about. ultimately, the debates that work the pastoralists where you have an opportunity to positively align yourself with the sentiment of voters. ron desantis's biggest problem is it necessarily leather that he's gonna win or lose a fight with chris christie. it's whether he can say mueller liable, whether he can seem strong, whether he can talk about some of the issues that they care about with clarity. those would be the goals that ron desantis's team will be preparing for him as a way to deflect any of these attacks. >> i started the show talking about this. the big elephant who won't be in the room shall we say, donald trump. what do you do if you are these candidates, how much do you talk about trump, how much do you talk about biden, what's the balance, karen? >> this will be hard, it depends on who you are on the stage. there's people coming on this case to just have people know they exist. at this point there were four