Conned his way into the american presidency. There are arguments that say he should have been deported as a criminal. No, his true enemies are the backers and kissing cousins of the birthers. The people like john boehner who refuse to stand up to them, who make common cause with the haters even as he positions himself as not quite one of them. Who keep their hands clean even as they benefit from the garbage their birther buddies are throwing out at the zoo. Obamas true enemies are those who back the three dozen states now pushing Voter Suppression laws to make sure the country doesnt go and elect another back president or a progressive white president. This generation is equivalent of poll taxes and the literacy tests. Anything to keep minorities from voting rights. And to this crowd the obama haters add to those who gnaw on the president S Health Care bill but offer nothing in its place except for the notions of destroying the economy stature. These are the enemies. Those who stand in benefit from all the anger, hatred, and indecency of the nasty right while claiming to be above them when they are below them. Again humming along with the true haters on the right singing their unamerican songs. Ed rendell was governor of pennsylvania. David corn is for mother jones mag sooen. Both are msnbc political analysts. I think this president has made a big mistake first of all in naming hiS Health Care bill obama care which has been used as a term of personal derision especially by those who hate him personally and use anything about his person to describe anything attached to him. But i think whats going on here is the right wing of this country has been a big part of the Republican Coalition and not once does boehner or mcconnell ever stood up and said those people are unacceptable in the way that bill buckley said antisemitism is not allowed in the conservative coalition. Nobody says it. Nobody stands up for the middle right and says we about part of your crowd. You aint part of ours. Your thoughts. I agree, chris. I think its time for the president to go on the offensive. I wouldnt bother with the birther issue, because every time some republican running for office says that the president wasnt born in the United States, all that does is get another independent voter or moderate republican to shake their head and say i cant be with these wackos. Why do the people who run for office on the republican side never separate themselves from them . Because they get their votes. Thats why. Absolutely. They get their votes. But every time a birthers out there, it helps our cause for 2014. What i do think is the president should go on the offensive on voting rights. He should go on the offensive. Make them vote on an immigration bill. Because thats a bill that really resonates. If they vote that down, theyre losing hispanic voters and i dont care who the candidates are. They can vote on a jobs bill. Well, i hope you agree with my point. The reason they dont want to do that, it forces them to choose between the haters out there who dont want immigrants and what the president is pushing. Absolutely. But make them vote on that. You know, theyre attacking the Affordable Care act, and youre right. The Affordable Care act polls better when its called the Affordable Care act than it does when its called obama care. But make them vote on a jobs bill. And another distinction. 41 times the republicans in the house have wasted the nations time voting to repeal the Affordable Care act. But they havent passed a jobs bill. Keep sending them jobs bill and make them vote on that. I agree with that. Yeah. Anyway, what i want to do is just change the conversation. Because were not going to get a report card on obama care on health care through november 30th or march. This is going to be an endless, endless woodpecker thing. The governor mentioned voting rights. I think president obama has a gopher pitch coming at him here. Take Voter Suppression. Make the party choose between honor or reince priebus. Look at this map. Under reince priebus, republicans in 35 states have advanced legislation to suppress the voting rights. Every single one of those were introduced by republicans. Theres so much ripe fruit out there to stick it to them on. Their attitudes about the birthers. I think they got away with it. They get all those voters in the south especially. Who the hell is boehner to say lets look at what he said about the birthers. Because i think hes vulnerable as hell on this. As the speaker of the house, as a leader, do you not think its your responsibility to stand up to that kind of ignorance . David, its not my job to tell the American People what to think. Our job in washington is to listen to the American People. Thats a leader. Hes speaker of the house. Its not our job to tell the American People what to think. Weve got to go to war. Theyre willing to tell us when to go to war. They tell us to vote for them. Then they say i cant tell you whether the guy is a kenyan or not . Theres a couple things the president needs to do. I think youre right. I dont think much will be heard until at least the websites working. The first three things to do for the next month im sorry. You want to hear this, chris. I dont know if its worthy of conversation until its done. Nevertheless. Ultimately going into 2014, he will be judged on how effective obama care is. They have to get moving on that fast. Its too easy to say but look at the website. So that has to happen. The other thing is weve been talking about the birther thing for four years now. In addition to that he has to come out and say america thinks that washington is dysfunctional. Ted cruz can go on jay leno last friday night and get laughs and applause for talking about how washington is dysfunctional. But its calling the guy is kenyan. No, no. Let me finish. I think the president has to get out there and say washington eess not dysfunctional. Its the Republican Party. There is a difference. You have to Pay Attention to whats going on here. But the republicans benefit. If anybody thinks washington is just a mess and he has to find a way to transcend that and whether its making the website or hes sending a good agenda. Let me just make my case. You guys dont have to agree with me. I loo k at the free ride the media has been giving the Republican Party. These birthers are treated as southern adamant people. Gohmert, hes just a joke, doesnt matter. Yet the right wing of the party, third of them, haters. It works for them. This decision to use three dozen states to go out there including pennsylvania to make sure blacks cant vote and have more whites voting and more conservative older white vote, thats systemic. On health care instead of playing defense, how about you go after the republicans who have 40 Million People they want to commit to the emergency room. They dont want to lift a finger for them. And the independent media out there never brings it up. They have discussion after discussion of obama care. Theyre scoreing onehalf of th game. When the republicans come to bat, they dont even swing. Isnt that worthy of a comment . Yes. You never heard it on the news. Youre doing it again. There isnt any republican website. Theres nothing. Listen. The medias not focusing on the hundreds of millions of americans who are benefitting. But the white house, too, has not been i want to try the governor. Governor rendell, maybe its hard for the news to cover something that doesnt exist. How do you cover the fact the republicans dont have a Health Care Plan . Theyve never had one . You have to go back to nixon who wanted an employer mandate and that never happened. I dont know how you cover somebody. How do you ignore the fact one team doesnt do anything or even hope to do or promise to do anything . Your thoughts. I think thats a great point, chris. And i think its up to elected official democrats. Mayors, governors, who do have some credibility to say come on, guys. Youre attacking the president , whats your Health Care Plan . You dont have one. So lets try to make this baby work because its all we got. And i think the president cant do that himself. I think its time for democrats and particularly local democrats. People listen to mayors. You know that, chris. They listen to mayors. Where are the democratic mayors saying the republicans havent offered you anything to help solve the health care program. The republicans have offered nothing. Governor, i want you to start on this. You know this better than anybody here. Youre a successful politician. Why doesnt the president have a tong if you will, a gang. Just call it a gang. Thats what it is in political terms. 20 or 30 men and women around the country, governors, senators, members of congress, prominent members of congress who on a regular basis go out and attack opponents for doing nothing and playing racial politics. Every every other game they play. Or its having no Health Care Plan or using government tactics like shutting down the government or risking default on the national debt. Why isnt there a chorus out there constantly pounding them . I dont hear a single is this fault he doesnt recruit . He doesnt hang out . He doesnt have friends . Why arent there people saying what he ought to be saying . I think there are people who are willing to do it but arent being recruited. Perfect simple, the day bill clinton was impeached, that saturday the Democratic National committee organized every single city. The mayors, if we had a governor, all of the state senators, in philadelphia we had had about 80 Public Officials standing behind me and we decried the impeachment as purely political, a waste of time, not what the American People wanted in government. And that happened in every major market across the country. Why arent we doing stuff like that today . I dont know if david has the answer. Because its strange. He has no friends. I mean active friends. We know on television he does well. Theyve got a lot of people that know how to make a point. Theyre not doing it. I think theyre getting out there they are . You see them on the show. Oh. I hear silence. But at the same time they come out say were working on health care. Rooer trying. By and large, i dont think the white house has fully, you know, joined the battle for the political cultural battle with the republicans. I think the president has been reluctant to do that because he sees himself as president of all america. He doesnt like coming across as the angry guy. He wants to try to make deals. He did it a few times during the shutdown. You remember that. It seemed effective. But when the shut downs over, he goes back to the eagles won last night. Congratulations. Let me ask you this. Do you notice the president s party, your party, tends to what do they do in football when ahead in points . They want to kill the clock. They fall down with the ball. Why does obamas team do that now . Did anyone tell them theyre not winning the game. Its not time to bury the ball. Yeah. I think the political acumen in the white house right now is lacking. There are people, david, who are willing to speak out. And it shouldnt be the president himself. He shouldnt be the angry man. It should be democrats, mayors, and governors to stand up and say come on, guys. Hes trying to change the Health Care System for the better. And nobody has put a decent plan on the table. Lets get behind the president and fix an american problem. Weve got to do that all across the country. City after city. It cant be the president himself. This is a time chris said he needs supporters. Thank you so much. Coming up, when 60 minutes reported on benghazi, republicans didnt see anything they didnt like so they could attack obama again and again. Now that the story has been discredited, look whos got nothing to say. Also many say they see christie as the partys savior. But not the tea partiers. Lets face it, theyre scared of this big guy. Speaking of 2016, could Elizabeth Warren go at it with Hillary Clinton . This is a fascinating thing thats buzzing now on the Democratic Party left. How about a left wing candidate on the left going against a center left candidate. I think theyd love to see that. Well see. Well get to that tonight. Finally, republicans love to compare things they dont like to slavery. The latest is the debt if you can believe that. Sarah palin is onto that brilliant comment. And this is hardball, the place for politics. Scenes of utter devastation in the philippine city. The city took a direct hit from typhoon haiyan. One of the most powerful storms on record. Witnesses in tacloban say virtually every building was destroyed. And the death toll in tacloban is thought as high as 10,000 people. Remote areas may have been hit such as hard. You can help by donating to one of the charities you see on your screen right now. So far the u. S. Military has sent in the marines, along with food, water, and generators. But much more is needed. Well be right back. Gate keeper. Heres kevin in the nissan sentra. Lamb to the slaughter. Moms baked cookies but hell be lucky to make it inside. And heres the play. Oh, dad did not see this coming. [ crowd cheering ] now if kevin can just seize the opportunity. Hes seen it. Its all over. Nothing but daylight. Yes id love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. The nissan sentra. Now get one fifty nine per month lease on a twothousand thirteen nissan sentra. Humans. Even when we cross our ts and dot our is, we still run into problems. Namely, other humans. Which is why, at Liberty Mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. See what else comes standard at libertymutual. Com. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Welcome back to hardball. Republicans are convinced they found Hillary Clintons achilles heel, if you will. Benghazi. And starting with the Senate Hearing in february. I think its inexcusable that you did not know about this and you did not read these cables. I would think by anybodys estimation libya has to have been one of the hottest of hot spots around the world. Not to know of the requests for securities, really i think cost these people their lives. Their lives could have been saved had someone been more available, had someone been aware of these things, more on top of the job. And the beat goes on. Dick cheney out promoting his book said, quote, she clearly wasnt hands on referring to the secretary of state. And now she doesnt want to be hands on. And shes doing everything she can to avoid responsibility for what clearly fell into her bailiwick. And what i always recall is her testimony saying what difference does it make . And the fact is the matter is make t a huge different. It was never answered to a satisfactory answer. Anyway, and back in may. Politico senator Lindsey Graham posted on his Facebook Page the following. I think the dam is about to break on benghazi. Were going to find political manipulation seven weeks before an election. Were going to find people asleep at the switch when it comes to the state department including Hillary Clinton. You can imagine republican glee when two weeks ago cbss 60 minutes broadcast a story on how the situation was handled. Heres that. Cbs did this story on benghazi and i see criticism from the left where they go youre covering a phony scandal. And the 60 minutes report recently that came out when i watched this report last night, i thought, well, about time. Can you imagine if we knew these things before the election . Can you only imagine. Theyre jumping with glee when 60 minutes reported initially. But big development. Laura logan delivered an apology for that story with a source that misled them about his whereabouts the night of the attack. After our report aired, questions arose about whether his account was true. When an incident report surfaced. It told a different story about what he did the night of the attack. Davies denied having anything to do with that report. And insisted the story he told us was not only accurate, it was the same story he told the fbi when they interviewed him. On thursday night, when we discovered the account he gave the fbi was different than what he told us, we realized we had been misled. And it was a mistake to include him in our report. For that, we are very sorry. Well not the republicans. The report may be discredited, but dont count on republicans to stop hitting Hillary Clinton with the very evidence thats now been discredited. Joining me now is the Huffington Post ryan grim. Ryan, tell us about this thing with what happened. The politics of it. Im not a media critic, but the politics of this. About the republicans jumped on the report and now its faded into silence since its been discredit discredited. Your thoughts . Well, the benghazi issue had faded. The second that 60 minutes aired this report and they knew in advance this report was coming. They jumped all over it. Lindsey graham said hed put a hold on every nominee the president wanted anywhere in his administration until he got more witnesses to come to the senate to talk about what happened at benghazi. They immediately jumped on this hoping they could reexploit this tragedy. So what do they got left after the eyewitness that wasnt an eyewitness disappears off to the klondike or wherever he is hiding off at. Do they have something against Hillary Clinton or not or the president . Four people died. You know, and thats an absolute tragedy. And shes secretary to have sta of state. Takes responsibility for everything that happens to people under her command. They certainly have that. But how much they have depends on who theyre talking to. If theyre on breitbart. Com or on the right wing email chain ecochamber, then they can say whatever they want. Theres no kind of constitutional Fact Checking going on. But this certainly dramatically damages them when it comes to the mainstream media. Last point on the facts because you know them. This constant demand by Lindsey Graham for people from the attack that survived it. Is that credible or is he just stretching it out. The white house has provided people for him to talk to. I think thats driving this is if you can get people to talk publicly, then it leads the nightly news. Then its back in the papers. So i think its a pr strategy. I dont think that there are really questions that he really has that havent been answered by the administration that would be by bringing these kind of people over to the senate. What do you make of this . What i see is the conflating they do all the time. Or john kerry, vivid antiwar advocate against the war, so go after the service record. What did he do wrong . Something to do with vietnam. They get confused because they dont watch the news every three hours. This way if they say it turned into an attack instead of something that began as an attack, they can say Hillary Clinton killed Chris Stevens. Because he died. Right. And that seems to be what theyre up to. What theyre up to is keeping the flames of anger alive. There are no new revelations now, chris. The only new thing 60 minutes had was the testimony of this one guy whos now been discredited. The rest of the report remember, this is not something laid out with no investigation. Weve had official investigations. We have had congressional hearings. And nothing new really has come out. Yes, four people died. But republicans are conflating the whole tragedy in ways that show who they think is going to be the democratic nominee in 2016. And whats their worst case goal . In other words, what is their ultimate dream they can get against hillary and the president . Well, of course, you touched on it before. Some kind of scandal before she even runs for president. But the tragedy, chris, is there is more to be known about the benghazi episode. But the story, whatever the real story is as it comes out, theyve already discredited it now because theyve cried wolf so much. So it becomes even less of a story now. But its a great fund raiser for the right. Let me just suggest something. Im not taking sides because it remains murky for me, but it seems Chris Stevens who was really well everyone liked him. And obviously courageous. Went into a dangerous situation, knowing that he makes decisions about where to go and what to do. They make decisions on how risky it is. He made the decision to visit that facility. How can you blame somebody back in washington for what erupted at the moment apparently . Your thoughts. Operating in a war zone carries with it certain risks. You try to minimize those risks, but, you know, you cant completely eliminate them. What you do is you put in place people that you trust to make the right decisions. They trusted his judgment. It was his judgment that he would be safe there. He wasnt wrong i mean, he was wrong and he paid the ultimate penalty. But the problem that people like Lindsey Graham have is they want to have it both ways. Either Hillary Clinton is manipulating this situation or she was hands off. I mean, theyve tried Lindsey Graham in your clip presented it as both. But it cant be both. Youre either incompetent or youre competent. They want it both ways. I think theyre gnawing on this. Thank you for that latest report. Looks like cbs has got a problem. Doesnt keep the right from using the problem. Dont let the lack of facts stop a good story, right . I think thats sadly true. Thank you Clarence Page and ryan grim. Up next sarah palin compares the debt. Why not . If you cant use hitler use slavery. I dont know what that connection is. This is hardball, the place for politics. People dont have to think about where their electricity comes from. 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Of course she could have stopped after that analogy, but she went on to compare the federal debt to slavery. Listen up. This free stuff is so seductive. Why do you think marketers use free stuff to bring people in . Free stuff is such a strong marketing ploy. Our free stuff today is being paid for by taking money from our children and borrowing from china. When that note comes due and this isnt racist, so try it anyway. This isnt racist, but its going to be like slavery when that note is due. Right . We are going to be beholden to a foreign master. Wow. Anyway, up next, fight on the right. The tea party wants to make sure Chris Christie or anyone else who might appeal to the middle wont get the republican nomination. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. [ male announcer ] if you have a dream of owning a business, find out why over one million businesses have trusted legalzoom to help them get started. 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A lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. Thats why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a Financial Consultant with charles schwab. Avo what kind of Financial Consultant are you looking for . Talk to us today. Im milissa rehberger. The u. S. Is pledging 20 million for relief efforts in the philippines after that devastating typhoon ripped across the islands on friday. The pentagon is sending uss George Washington and other navy ships to that region. Secretary of state kerry will brief a senate panel later on this week on failed talks with iran over disputed nuclear program. Lawmakers are weighing whether tougher sanctions are needed. Back to hardball. Welcome back to hardball. Republicans have a problem. Theres no one in their party right now to appeals to the political middle of this country. The one guy who might, Chris Christie, is getting pummelled by the tea party right. Joe carr borrow is out with a book called the right path from ike to reagan. Joe writes a tough critique of Todays Republican Party and says the party can get right back on the track by following a pragmatic of ike and reagan. Republicans need to broaden their appeal as those two did so successfully. They did buy compromising when necessary. He writes, quote, the kinds of compromises that led to historical greatness. At this present too imin the past or future without himself which is a great argument for being on this planet. You cannot be replaced. Although thats a dangerous thing. Let me ask you about the book. And i see this wonderful coincidence of the title of the book the right path. And then i see Ronald Reagan walking down the path. So hes on the right path. How do you find another reagan . How do you find someone who can win and not only win but win really big the second term and lead the country with a positive legacy for having been president . You know, reagan wasnt reagan as you remember very well even in the summer of 1980. A lot of people inside the Carter White House and most people in the media didnt think reagan had a shot of being elected anything. But once he got into office, its great talking to you about this because you were there and saw it up close. Ronald reagan was extraordinarily conservative. Tip oneill and he couldnt be further apart. Yet reagan figured day in and day out how to either fight tip oneill and the Democratic Congress or strike deals when he knew he could get his 80 but had to give the 20 to the other side. He was pragmatic and he always found the middle of the political system. There was this great line from the triumph of politics from way back in the early 80s where reagan turned to his advisers and said, guys, i dont wear the black hat. Reagan always believed that if he was going to be successful, if he was going to change the country, if he was going to make the country more conservative, he always had to be popular and win elections. He knew how to do it. And ike knew how to do it. We have forgotten as a party how to do it. Because quite frankly were more interested in political blood baths within our own party and conducting ideological witch trials than reaching to the middle of america. I think the only happy picture from last years election which didnt make anybody really happy, 2012, was the picture of governor christie and the president walking down the beach. It showed christie could play politics. Obviously the president wanted to be there. That was an easy one for him. But for christie to do it showed shrewdness, selfinterest, and most importantly smart politics. Yeah. No doubt about it. And you are exactly right. Thats whatnot only the people of new jersey wanted to see at that time, but the people in america wanted to see. A lot of republicans were angry with Chris Christie for doing that. I understand why people in the Romney Campaign would have been miffed. Maybe it seemed to them that he did it with too much glee. But heres the difference between mitt romney in 2012 and Ronald Reagan in 1980. If this had happened under jimmy carter in 1980, Ronald Reagan would have been the first to be smart enough to praise the president. Even if that president were jimmy carter. Romney never knew exactly how to do that. Reagan knew how to do it. When you give your opponent their 20 , sometimes that actually ends up helping you more than it helps them. Bill clinton was a master of giving us republicans our due when we came up with something. Whether it was the balanced budget plan. He embraced it, praised us, then made that idea his own and his numbers shot up. Thats why. The right wing has taken shots, of course, on governor christie since his win tuesday. And some of this potential 2016 rivals are skeptical whether christie is conservative enough to be the standard. Lets listen to some of the chatter here. The road to the nomination for a moderate is actually pretty difficult because a lot of the republican primaries are very conservative. And so i think someone whos most well known for, you know, grabbing up federal money as much as they can get probably, i think, that kind of attitude may or may not go off so well in a primary. Every race is particular to the state it is run in. There are factors in new jersey that are individual to that race. And clearly he was able to speak to that and to the people of new jersey. He was a successful governor in new jersey. Now, does that transcend into the country . Well see in later years and months to come. Were all different states. Is a conservative in new jersey a conservative in the rest of the country . I would never put my faith and hope in any one individual politician. Oh, please. Not any of them. There is no Ronald Reagan on the scene today. New jersey, a blue state has a republican governor. Right on. Beats the alternative. You know what hit me when i watched that attack on him, i said instead of thinking any one of those guys is going to win especially rand paul, and thinking of christie. Theyll see him as a rival before he gets there. Theyre thinking he might knock me out of this race. Thats what i hear from rand paul. Rand paul, im surprised by some of the things. I want to Say Something i dont say on my morning show. I agree with sarah palin. We get a blue state. Weve got a republican governor. Right on. Everybody should be embracing imjuit just like sarah palin said. And marco rubio touched on a larger truth. Yes Chris Christie figured how to win in new jersey. He figured out how to reach out to a base that didnt had not just like Ronald Reagan in california in 1966. Figured out a way to beat one of the most transformative california governors ever, pat brown. So the question is does christie have those political skills moving forward . Ive got to say one thing about rand paul. And one thing, suggesting that Chris Christie was somehow too moderate to win the nomination. Ive got to say, 2008 and 2012, we had two guys with much more moderate records than Chris Christie who got elected. And this whole idea that the hard right somehow wins nominations for the Republican Party is just wrong. They win iowa. Dont you love the way people get tagged, joe . Like bob casey of pennsylvania, he was a conservative because of abortion. And this guy because christie thought it made sense to help new jersey rather than not help new jersey after sandy, hes called a moderate. The guy is not big on construction. We know he wasnt for the tunnel going to new york. We know hes a tough tax guy. Hes tough as hell on the teachers unions. I dont get the moderate tag on the guy. Unless they want to beat him. I dont understand either, and i dont think thats going to work. Again, you see it in the republican nomination all the time where, yes, it starts out a lot of conservative talk, occupies the main street media and people in the early voting states. Then it turns out. And it goes to the midwest. This race is wide open. Heres the most important thing. Republicans arent going to win again if we only elect the Chris Christie wing or only the rand paul wing. Weve got to unite the two wings together. Weve been engaged in a circular firing squad the last few years. We had ideological witch trials. Commercials being run saying if you dont agree with our specific tactic on how to end obama care, youre not sufficiently conservative. I got an idea. This will drive you crazy. How about Chris Christie and louie gohmert. What do you think . Thats a ticket. Yeah. Youd like to ticket, wouldnt you . I would love that one. That would be colorful. A colorful ticket. Wed cover it well. You know what . We really dont know whos going to be elected. I know in 2007 we were all talking about at least on the morning show about the matchup between Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton. Were not going to know for a very long time. Heres the one thing i do know. If republicans are going to win in 2016, its going to require them to unite the party the way reagan did. What does that mean . That means were going to need a nominee that both ted cruz and colin powell can both support. That nominee is out there somewhere. Weve got to find his or her. And when we do, well have a great shot of taking back the white house for the first time in eight years. Its great having you on joe scarborou scarborough. You are my doppelganger. Thank you so much. The books called the right path. Im holding it up. Thats what you do. This is how republicans can win. If that is your cup of tea, having republicans win. Up next, would progressives stick with Hillary Clinton if Elizabeth Warren challenged her in 2016 . A little battle between left and middle left or left and center left . This is hardball, the place for politics. At red lobster, we pull our seafood from the best waters on earth. Like the cold alaskan seas. Its the cleanest, clearest water. A haven for crab. [ male announcer ] and the unspoiled coast of maine. Maine lobster is the tastiest, the sweetest. [ male announcer ] we serve it the only way seafood should be. Prepared to order by experts. If i wouldnt eat it, im not gonna serve it. [ male announcer ] and delivered hot from our kitchen, right to your table. Thats how we sea food differently. Now get ten dollars off any two seafood bakes, crab or lobster entrees. Now get ten dollars off dad dad katy perry is coming to town. Can we get tickets, tickets . Hmm, sure. How many . Well, theres hannah, maddie, jen, sara m. , sara b. , sa whoa, whoa. 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Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy happy. I love logistics. Were back. For months now the Hillary Clinton 2016 momentum has been building, of course. Major democratic figures like chuck schumer, harry reid, and nancy pelosi have publicly urged her to run. Grassroots groups have set up superpacs. Unlike in 2008 when barack obama was seen as as the democratic rock star, there isnt a real alternative waiting in the wings to go against hillary, or is there . The new republic has a provocative article out there arguing that Elizabeth Warren from massachusetts could be gearing up to challenge clinton. If Hillary Clinton runs and retains her ties to wall street, warren will be more likely to join the race, not less. Warren is shrewd enough to understand the future of the Democratic Party is at stake in 2016. At age 64, she knows if hillary wins and populates yet another administration with heirs to robert ruben, it will be at least eight years to reclaim the party. She has a sense of destiny, says a former aid. If hillary or the man on the moon is not representing her stuff and her people dont have a seat at the table, shell do what she can to make sure its represented. Joy reid is with thegrio. Com and msnbc contributor. And josh green is senior Political Editor at bloomberg businessweek. Both of you, i want you both to espouse a possible course over the next two years whereby Elizabeth Warren runs for president with or without an opponent named Hillary Clinton. Well, its easy. I mean, Elizabeth Warrens political career, her career in the senate has been all about trying to tilt the powers in washington and wall street away from big banks and financiers and toward the middle class. And shes a hero to people on the left. Shes a hero to people, but shes used her spot as a senator to harangue them and get coverage on the front page. Nothing would give her more power in the media celebrity sphere than becoming a democratic candidate. We have videos of her taking on tv anchors or speaking on the senate floor become viral hits. Here she is on the eve of the republican shutdown taking on republicans over health care in a video thats been watched millions of times online. I see things like this and i wonder what alternate reality some of my colleagues are living in. So, let me be very clear about what is happening in the real world. The aca is the law of the land. Millions of people are counting on it, people who need health care coverage, people who need insurance policies that dont disappear just when they are at their sickest. Women will get Insurance Coverage for birth control. The law is here to stay, and it will stay. Joy, whats that do for you . You know what, i think that Elizabeth Warren is undoubtedly a rock star. Shes a little star. That was extremely compelling. She represents that issue with a simil singularity of purpose that has the potential to make her a truly consequential senator on a Teddy Kennedy level and i think she has that potential in the United States senate. I question whether in terms of running for president , she would need a couple things that i dont yet see, one of which would be a huge grassroots money machine. Lets face it, Barack Obamas stardom was backed by huge amounts of money, and i dont see yet, at least for Elizabeth Warren, that kind of grassroots core. And the second thing is a breadth of a base. Elizabeth warren is a hero to the liberal Democratic Party, but mostly the white liberal part of the party, and as i look at that primary calendar and they take the primaries down south lets say she won iowa, then she has to face a huge swath of Southern States where shes going to need black and brown votes. Youve got nevada and arizona angling to maybe go earlier. Theres not another big primary like a california until potentially june. So, i see a calendar not necessarily in her favor and an infrastructure thats going to be owned by the clintons, plus the obama machine. While you have the stand, joy, her gender, you skipped the one most people point to initially, of the two you mentioned. The first ones gender. What do you make of that . Because theres no guy, if you will, out there challenging hillary, except Vice President biden, whose purposes are unclear right now, but nobody in the field, in senate or governorships whos talking about running really. Maybe cuomo, omalley, but not a huge star. She and hillary both bring that. And i believe politics is about the hungriest base. In 2008, when barack obama talked about that dream written in the founding documents, he was speaking directly to the heart of africanamericans who were hungry to have that office, and to young people who are hungry to have that office. He wasnt the liberal. It was john edwards who was the liberal guy, but when Elizabeth Warren is running as the woman, hillary has that, too, and women are the hungry base, i believe, going into 2016, and hillarys got electability. Thats a powerful argument for women. And president barack obama was also the hero to the 60s people. Im talking for them right now, okay . Yeah, absolutely. Im talking to them. That post 1964 generation, absolutely. I think its a mistake to think about this only in terms of can Elizabeth Warren win. I think the real reason she might want to run is because if she did, her platform i think would instantly become a litmus test well, thats the argument without dividing the party i would liken it to ross perot, right . Theres a man who ran for president , whose big issue, deficit reduction, was a shaping force of the campaign, taken up by bill clinton whats the occupation action on the left . It certainly helped bring mitt romney down. His 47 killed him. I think its a radical reflection of what Elizabeth Warren stands for in the senate, an anger at wall street powers, an idea that some fundamental wrong is perpetuating itself, they have too much power and the scales need to be tilted back towards middle class. I think youre making a point and Hillary Clinton will have to touch that base. Thank you so much, joy reid. As always, i think youre getting ahead of me on 2016, thinking it through. When you went to nevada, shes ahead of me again. Im not patronizing. You have thought it through more than me. Joy reid, thank you, and josh green, thank you for the intellectualism here. The was a truly amazing day. Without angies list, i dont know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. For over 18 years weve helped people take care of the things that matter most. Join today at angieslist. Com still running in the morning . Yeah. Getting your vegetables every day . When i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] couldve had a v8. 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