So the challenge is out there right now right there in tonights news packed and ready for tomorrows newspapers. Will it explode into action, light a firecracker under the republicans . Will it detonate an avalanche of action driving teeth into the reform, ending the perennial talk thats led to nothing or to the old bogus reforms of the past . Will the politicians get real or play more games of ethnic fear, economic exploitation, and wedge politics . Was today the end of all that . Could that be possible . Lets take a hard look with chuck todd. You heard all my questions. Im older than you, i have been through simpson mazzoli. I know were laughing about i love its getting a comeback. Weve tried it all before. Weve passed bills that said its got teeth in it and its got amnesty for people who have been here for awhile. Is this going to work politically and substantively . Politically i think its definitely going to work. Politically theres the tune of the immigration debate, the fact you have business that needs this, whether its agricultural, whether its hightech. Business community is demanding at washington to do something about this, and then you have the politics simply of the hispanic vote, so politically this is going to happen. I kind of republicans control the house. What do they get out of it . Stop having the hispanic issue as a wedge. To actually begin to have a conversation when the new generation of hispanic voters like george w. Tried to do. Republicans make the point, the number one issue with hispanics is not immigration. Theyre right. But theyre not listening to you. The number one issue for suburban working women isnt contraception. If youre saying weird things like legitimate rape, then that voting bloc isnt going to listen to you on education, on taxes, on any of this stuff. Thats whats going on. So thats the issue. What do democrats get out of it . Why are they pushing it . Hispanics have been demanding something on this, and at some point but do they want the teeth, the tough requirements of worker verification . Do they want the tough part of the bill . I think yes, because if you actually go to places like arizona and new mexico, and i have seen surveys of hispanicamericans, hispanicamerican citizens who say second, third, fourth generation, saying i did it legally. These folks should have to do it legally. I think that there is a i just dont hear that from the latino groups. No, they i dont hear the Interest Groups pushing for real teeth. Lets take a look at the president today. The Interest Groups arent. Im talking about rank and file hispanicamericans. Thats positive. Lets look at what he had to say. He came out for what he calls comprehensive Immigration Reform. It was at a speech in las vegas. He said the bipartisan plan put forward by eight senators was in line with the principles hes for, which is very interesting. Bipartisan approach. Lets listen. Here he is. But the principles are pretty straightforward. First, i believe we need to stay focused on enforcement. That means continuing to strengthen security at our borders. It means cracking down more forcefully on businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers. We need to implement a National System that allows businesses to quickly and accurately verify someones employment status. Second, we have to deal with the 11 million individuals who are here illegally. We all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship. But for comprehensive Immigration Reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a pathway to citizenship. Okay. Your strength is in politics. Went to a largely Hispanic High School in las vegas you wouldnt know that. They applauded all the positives. They didnt applause any of the enforcement stuff. Youre pointing out the flags. I think visually whats amazing, politics is a visual game sometimes, and what message is someone trying to say if you turn the sound down . I guess the president is patriotic, hes sitting in front of american flags. Beyond that would have been better if we could have seen the young Hispanic High School kids . I think it would be. This is about a Younger Generation of hispanics who, why are they coming to america . Theyre coming to america for all of the right reasons that we want america to be, the shining city on the hill, particularly lets talk about the key guy here. Besides the president , who is always the key guy. Here is marco rubio. I think he may have split ambitions. If he does it right with the eight senators, four democrats, four republicans, and they coalesce with the president , the president will get credit. He may be willing to share the headline here. Here he is. He spoke to Rush Limbaugh today. This is marco rubio of florida. Here he is. I know this is a tough issue. I do. I know why people are uncomfortable about it. It doesnt feel right to, in some instances, to, you know, allow people who have come here undocumented to be able to stay. I know for some people theyre uncomfortable with this notion. This is a tough issue to work through. I think this is a significant challenge we face. I know the president is going to take us in a direction i would not be comfortable with, and i dont think its good for america. Im trying to do the best i can with whats already a tough situation. Hes probably the only guest on the show to say undocumented workers rather than aliens. Which is limbaughs favorite. Listen to how limbaugh looked at it. I have seen a number of research, Scholarly Research data, which says the vast majority of arriving immigrants today come here because they believe that government is the source of prosperity, and thats what they support. Its not about conservative principles and so forth. Not the way it used to be. Look, i dont know. I dont have i havent done a scholarly study on the makeup. I can only tell you about the people i interact with, and i can tell you that the folks i interact with, once they get into this country and they start to work and they open up their own business, they start to understand the cost of big government. Theres such a thing in politics and Public Affairs and commentary thats a lie. And what he just said was a lie. If you look at any road gang in america out there working on the roads, hispanics, if you go to the guys doing housing, roofing, guys doing lawns, guys doing sophisticated craftsman work in this country all over the burbs and the country. Beverly hills, chevy chase, theyre all Spanish Speaking and the idea they call came here for welfare checks. They come here to earn money. To send it back. To take that money, and theyre sending, say, half of it they live on what they have to, and theyre sending it back to try to support family i dont think hispanics are big on government anyway. I think theyre trying to get away from lousy governments most of them. Every immigrant, and i have studied this, and you have too, over 200 years in this country, its been the same thing. During garfields election, i love to bring this up, during james garfields election, the state of california almost, you know, was teetering on the edge over the issue of illegal chinese immigration. We go through this as a society. We have these issues, but every immigrant population thats come to the United States has come here for the same reason, looking for work. Thats all. The chinese were the most crimefree community in history. They dont cause anybody any trouble. Thank you, chuck todd. Lets turn to somebody who knows. Hes a member of congress from that part of the country right down near the boarder, joaquin castro, democrat from texas. This is hardball, and were talking about whether they will get a bill that passes both houses, the one controlled by the senate and one by the house. Youre a minority member. Do you think the majority led by people like, well, john boehner and cantor are actually going to put their fingers on an immigration bill and pass it . I think they will, chris, and i hope they will. I think especially with the november election, the American People made it clear, i believe, that they want the congress and they want the president to tackle this issue and to finally get it done. I think what weve seen in the last few days is very promising, first with the Senate Proposal and now the president s proposal. At least we know were having a serious discussion about it and were more or less on the same field. I have always liked schumer politically and rubio, the fact hes with them, lindsey graham, i respect them all. Given who they are. Theyre all different politics. Are you surprised that rubio, who is obviously gunning for the presidency, has been able to make a deal with someone like Chuck Schumer of new york who is a liberal . Is this something that can be done across the country, liberal conservative compromise with teeth and also with something for people who have been here a long time and want to become american . Theres no question. Its a wonderful turn of events, especially because of all the stalemates on a number of issues weve had in washington over the last few years. And so i was a bit surprised to see all eight of them standing up there at the podium locked in arms, coming out with this bipartisan proposal. So i think it bodes well for the issue. Do you think were going to get to the point if this thing is in effect or Something Like it where we wont be embarrassed by People Racing across the border down the arizona line, texas line, People Racing for their life to get jobs. I know their motives are good, they need a job. But the idea of a country where you race across lines and fences and you have to come in illegally, is this ever going to stop you think . I know its petered down because of the economy. Will we have people become guest workers or applicants or longterm stays here where its actually done like a modern society ought to operate . I hope that we can get to that point. You know, as you and chuck were talking about, these folks who come over, 90something percent of them come with the best of intentions. They want to work and support their families and, quite frankly, chris, these are folks that are desperate people often times whose kids are starving, dont have much to eat. Theyre not able to make a living in mexico or another country where theyre from, so they come to the United States in the same spirit that the irish and the germans and the italians came, and that is for opportunity. And its not to get rich. Its an opportunity just to survive. Let me ask you about guest workers. Its always been a tricky thing because in the old days of nixon, it had a negative connotation. Is part of the answer temporary workers that come up here for the season, they may work in agricultural, make a bundle of money by their standards, head back with it to their families, that way you dont combine working with immigration in every situation. Are you happy with that or does that seem discriminatory to you . How do you react to it . Well, i think, and you see in both proposals this path to citizenship, i think that path to citizenship should be available for undocumented immigrants. There should be an option i think or there could be an option for them to have temporary worker status if theyre choosing not to become residents or citizens, but, you know, when you think about the dreamers and other folks who are not, you know, kids who are dreamers but maybe have been here 10 or 15 years and paid taxes and essentially have lived out many years as americans, we should give them a path to citizenship. You know, the hardest thing about this is trust. The conservatives, and you know it better than i do, you represent people down there in that part of a country where its a touchy issue, a lot of conservatives will say i want enforcement first, and then well talk about amnesty or whatever were going to call it. Longterm path to citizenship. Wait a minute, if you do that, if you seal up the border right now and, which is maybe not the most important thing, you insist on everify working, you cant work unless youre here legally. What happens to the 12 Million People in the meantime . They cant work . In other words, its the chicken and egg problem. How do you get to a better world in this country step by step in a way that conservatives will go along with, middleoftheroaders, and liberals who really want to see something done in terms of helping the people here. How do you stop the illegal action in the meantime . Tell me what you think about the sequence. I think its going to be a hot part of this issue, what comes first. Sure. And i think youre right. The argument that you have had mostly from folks on the right is, look, we cant create any Guest Worker Program or a path to citizenship until we secure the border, and that argument has a lot of resonance, but we have got to consider the moment that were in. Its a fact that this president has committed more resources to the border than any president in american history. In 2004 when president bush was reelected, there were 10,000 Border Patrol agents on the border. Today there are more than 21,000. There are 652 miles of border barriers, including fencing, along the border. So this president has committed not only money but also manpower to securing the border. If were going to hold this thing up, a path to citizenship, until we secure the border, then weve got to have objective measures about what that means because i promise you if you put rick perry and jan brewer on that Southwestern Commission to determine when the border has been secured, theyre never going to approve it because its not in their political interest to approve it. So weve got to be very careful if we operate in phases. Be interesting how we do this. I hope it works. We tried it before with simpson mazzoli. It didnt get enforced. I think you need enforcement plus the opportunity for citizenship. I think we all agree on the elements. Its putting this thing together that will matter. Its great to have you on, by the way, congressman, joaquin castro. Your brother is great, too. Thank you. He gave a great speech at the convention. Coming up, civil war in the Republican Party. One side says only a moderate sensible gop will be able to compete. In the northeast and midwest of this country. On the other side are wingers like glenn beck. Who celebrate the death of the establishment wing of the Republican Party with cake and confetti. And i think a dead body. Plus, who is behind the Strange Alliance of neocons and gays trying to kill chuck hagels nomination for defense secretary . Were going to get into that one. Thats a favorite of mine. Among those opposing hagel, a Shadowy Group who says its progay but buys its ad through a Top Republican firm. And argo, lincoln, the good wife, veep, theres no denying it, movies and shows about politics are suddenly hot. The great kevin spacey sits in this chair in a few minutes. Hes got a new political show called house of cards. It reminds me of what might have happened if john kerry had not been made secretary of state. Let me finish with kerrys confirmation. It happened just an hour ago as secretary of state and thursdays hearing for chuck hagel as secretary of defense. I support both of them. This is hardball, the place for politics. [ woman ] ring. Ri. Progresso. Your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i cant stop eating em whats. That. On your head . Can curlers tomato basil, potato with bacon. Weve got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. You gotta taste this soup. As i mentioned john kerry has now been confirmed by the United States senate. Happened late this afternoon. Hes the next secretary of state. In fact, he is secretary of state. The vote was 943. The only no votes came from both texas senators john cornyn and ted cruz and oklahomas james inhofe. What a trio that is. The Foreign Relations committee, which kerry chaired for the past four years, voted for him unanimously. Tomorrow Massachusetts GovernorDuvall Patrick is expected to name kerrys replacement to the senate. That will be a big headline, the new senator from massachusetts. Well be right back. U are a bus. Executor of efficiency. You can spot an amateur from a mile away. While going shoeless and metalfree in seconds. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. Now this. Will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. Just like you. Go national. Go like a pro. Thor gets great rewards for his Small Business your boa [ garth ] thors Small Business earns double miles on every purchase, every day ahh, the new fabrics. Put it on my spark card. Ow. [ garth ] why settle for less . The spiked heels are working. Wait [ garth ] great businesses deserve great rewards. 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Nothing. With coverage checker, its easy to find your perfect policy. Visit progressive. Com today. Welcome back to hardball. For months now weve been watching the growing gap between the establishment Republican Party and the tea party wings of that party. The Tea Party Types are now the partys dominant force, of course. They have little use for Establishment Republicans who preach moderation and compromise. Well, here is what david brooks wrote in the New York Times today. Quote, its probably futile to try to change current republicans. Its smarter to build a new wing of the Republican Party, one that can compete in the northeast and midatlantic states, in the upper midwest, along the west coast as well. It could be filled with people who recoiled at president obamas second inaugural address because of its excessive faith in centralized power, but who dont share the absolute antigovernment story of the current gop. Would a coastal and midwestern gop sit easily with the southern and western one . No, but majority parties are usually coalitions of the incompatible. This is really the only chance republicans have. The only way to build a second gop. Good question for this my two guests. Michael steele, former rnc chariman, now an msnbc contributor, and bob costa, washington editor for the National Review. The Democratic Party for years was an unbelievably absurd coalition, northern liberals, minorities, southern segregationists, and they put together for people like Adlai Stevenson and roosevelt and harry truman and wilson. Can the Republican Party rebuild itself to get a majority by building a coalition where they dont all agree with each other, where you have the rural people plus the more, if you will this will drive people crazy sophisticated suburbanites. I think they can and going back to my days as a county chairman to being national chairman, i preached that same thing. Northeastern republicans are not southern republicans arent midwestern republicans arent western republicans. They all wear a different hat. But they wear them in their own style. All politics is local. All politics is local, and the more the party recognizes that this is not about a national Republican Party but a coalition of independent, you know, minded individuals who happen to be republican in some cases what about all those moderates that are told they could join the party and be part of the coalition . You know, thats nice, bob, but if theyre not prolife, if theyre not against gay marriage, if they dont buckle to the rural Republican Party, the Tea Party Point of view, they arent ever going to be on the national ticket. Why would they join a party that wouldnt join them as a member . Its a fair question. Something the republicans are going to have to grapple with over the next few years. How do you grapple with it . We both grew up in the philadelphia suburbs. My big question is will the party elevate leaders from the northeast. Is a Chris Christie going to be able to be a True National voice in leading the party in the coming years or is it just going to be the republicans from other parts of the country, the dean i know the answer because we had governors like tom ridge, war veteran, combat veteran, worked through harvard, admirable person. He wasnt right on abortion rights. Didnt go anywhere nationally because cheney zapped him. You name me a guy christie is okay because hes prolife supposedly, but all the other guys in the northeast arent. So theyre not eligible. Its a fair point. I know, i keep making fair points. You have to answer them. They had a big summit over the weekend in washington. We had a lot of people come and speak. Prochoice people, prolife people, social issues, economic issues, republicans are grappling with all these issues. Are republicans going to be open on gay marriage and abortion . Whats the answer . The answer is unsure. Here is bobby jindal. Whos really got an ambition going. He took on his own Party Last Week at an rnc meeting when he said it was time for the stupid party for the stupid party talk to end. Lets listen. Weve got to stop being the stupid party. Im serious, its time for a new Republican Party that talks like adults. Its time for us to articulate our plans and visions for america in real terms. Its no secret we had a number of republicans that damaged the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. Im here to say weve had enough of that. Mourdock and akin. He was talking about. Last night karl rove, who is now an umpire, he agreed and said republicans must have more than an antiobama message. Lets listen to the oracle, the architect. I think hes right. He was talking about todd akin of missouri and Richard Mourdock of indiana and their terrible comments on abortion. The republicans cant be in mindless opposition to president obama. It has to offer a vision of the future that is attractive and compelling for americans to associate with. The problem is that the vision jindal and rove are talking about hasnt changed. Only their messaging has. While jindal talks a good game, paul krugman pointed out yesterday jindal is proposing eliminating louisianas income tax, which is paid primarily by the wealthy, and replace it with a sales tax designed to hit the poor and working poor. Youre doing the same old hoover stuff, tax the people that get hit the hardest by economic recession and exempt the top people who make incomes, big incomes. But thats not necessarily been borne out in states like texas and New Hampshire and elsewhere that dont have a state income tax, that do have a higher sales tax. So, you know, i get if you have a lot of tourism. I get the partisan line, and i think louisiana has a bit of tourism. So the fact of the matter is, you know, bobby jindal represents i think, as Susana Martinez does and others, this next generation of Republican Leaders out there who are doing it. Whats jindals message theyre creating the laboratory in the states, which is why i go back to my point which this is not about national messaging. This is finding and accepting republicans where they are. You buy this as an intellectual who writes for the National Review . You buy the fact that the Republican Party can become a coalition party, not a homogeneous right wing party . I think can you answer that question yes or no . Yes. I think the Republican Party can succeed, but if you listen to Bobby Jindals speech, hes asking a big question. Too often he says the party is becoming the fiscal conservative party. Hes saying republicans arent going to back away on their position on taxes, talk more about growth, more about tax cuts, less about austerity. One way to kill prosperity is to tax people for what they spend. Thats the dumbest thing in the world. Raise the sales tax so if you save your little money, keep it in your pocketbook, you have more money. If you tax spending, youre bringing down consumption. Here is jindal and Chris Christie and marco rubio who are thinking about bringing the party together, and then look at glenn beck dressed as a doctor pronouncing the republican establishment dead. Lets watch glenn beck. Here is what the media and the president still dont understand. Were celebrating the death of the establishment gop right along with them. Yeah. I have got a cake and hats and like Party Streamers and everything today because theyre dead. The gop hasnt stuck to its guns or its policies or its principles in i dont know how long. All they are is about winning. Who should be in the tent . We need a bigger tent. Thats the wrong angle. While the elephant may be dying and its not dying, its dead, what isnt dying in america is personal responsibility. Is he part of your crowd . Glenn beck . Is he part of the republican big tent, that guy . That train wreck . If he look, see, im not going to make a judgment on what brings and motivates people to join the party he in or out . I dont know. I dont get to make that judgment. He gets to make that decision for himself. If he wants to pronounce the party as dead, thats fine for him. I would have a my issues. Youre hearing this from a lot of conservatives. The party is struggling. Do you like him . Not like glenn beck but they want i dont like him. I dont know how to make an answer work. No, i dont like but thats your but you wont answer the question. I did answer the question. Is he part of your party or not . What is his Party Registration . I dont know. He seems like he doesnt want to be a part of republican who did he vote for . Mitt romney or obama . Youd have to ask him that. I dont know. I think i know. I think he voted for mitt romney. Michael steele pretty good guess. Robert costa. Who is cruz to criticize john kerry when he never even saw a uniform up close. Back to hardball. [ male announcer ] when was the last time something made your jaw drop . Campbells has 24 new soups that will make it drop over, and over again. From jammin jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. See whats new from campbells. Its amazing what soup can do. Its part of what you seeslove about her. Essing. Lls. But your erectile dysfunction you know, that could be a question of blood flow. Cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moments right. You can be more confident in your ability to be ready. And the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. 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First up, texas senator ted cruz is pushing the idea that if president obama supports something, it means a weaker america. Hes talking about the nominations of john kerry and chuck hagel. Here is cruz speaking at an event put on by the conservative National Review institute over the weekend. Okay. Weve got two pending nominations, john kerry, chuck hagel. Both of whom are very prominently antius, less than ardent fans of the u. S. Military. My view of the military and Foreign Policy is exactly that of reagans, that it should be driven by the National Security interests of the United States, that we should go in with clear, defined objectives, overwhelming force, and then when were done, get the heck out. Does anyone believe Paul Ryan Ronald Reagan would have taken us into a hawkish war like iraq . By the way, john kerry and chuck hagel arent fans of the u. S. Military . Oh . Or remind the senator from texas that both hagel and kerry volunteered to serve in vietnam and have been awarded five purple hearts between them. Senator cruz has no experience personally in the u. S. Military and, as i said earlier, was one of the three senators who voted against confirming john kerry earlier today. Also, Hillary Clinton reunited with australian comedy duo hamish and andy. She first met them back in 2010 during a visit to australia, and today they popped up at whats being called a global town interview or townterview with the secretary of state. Madam secretary, obviously a lot of good questions we had were taken earlier tonight by some of the wonderful participants around the world, but luckily we still have a few. Probably the big question on everyones lips is when you step back from being secretary of state well, she wont be able to be called madam secretary. Youre no longer madam secretary. I think on behalf of all the global citizens, which of these three names would you like to adopt . We spent three or four months on this. Incredible hillary . The artist formerly known as the secretary . Or just hill clinton . But it does sound a bit like your husband. I think were going to have to work on that list. None. None . Okay. We will need another four or five months then. Secretary clinton took questions from young people around the world over the course of that event. Up next, a Strange Alliance of neocons and gay groups trying to kill chuck hagels nomination later this week. Thats ahead, and youre watching hardball, the place for politics. Twins. I didnt see them coming. I have obligations. Cute obligations, but obligations. I need to rethink the core of my portfolio. What i really need is sleep. Introducing the ishares core, Building Blocks for the heart of your portfolio. Find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. 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The air force says rescuers have found debris believed from a f16 that went missing after taking off from an air base in italy. No sign of the pilot. The head of egypts military said the conflict could lead to the end of the new government there. Back to hardball. Welcome back to hardball. After new york senator Chuck Schumer gave his blessing to the nomination of chuck hagel for defense secretary, his path to confirmation was essentially cleared. But the hawks who oppose hagel have only dug in deeper and the latest evidence comes from a newly created antihagel group called use your mandate. A group that has no website and an address that exists only as a p. O. Box and anonymous backers who claim to be obama alleys. Here is their antihagel ad. Its been on tv. Lets watch it. Chuck hagel, hes been nominated to be secretary of defense, and president obama nominated him with the best of intentions. But its still a bad choice. Hagel is antiwoman, antichoice, antiisrael, antigay, and proassault weapon. Thats just not what we voted for in november. Chuck hagel doesnt share our values. There are other people who can do the job. Why do we need someone like this . We dont. Urge your senator to vote no on hagel. So why the antihagel backers in the group use your mandate so shy in a source close to the group told Huffington Post, quote, those involved are choosing to stay anonymous because theyre allies with the Obama Administration and hesitant to criticize the president publicly for fear of retribution or pressure from the white house. The source characterized members as a concerned group of people who have some questions about chuck hagel, including individuals who have fought for lgbt rights for a long time. Oh, really . That just doesnt sound right to a lot of people, including many reporters and our own rachel maddow. Lets listen to rachel. Probably theyre asserting theres some kind of broad democrat opposition to chuck hagel. Were just not allowed to know who it is. Im not buying it. I call bullpucky. I say its even money that this is the right running ads against hagel while pretending to be the left. I might be wrong but i call bullpucky. If i am wrong, theres an easy way to prove it. Come out, come out, whoever you are. Rachel as smoky. Joining me right now two reporters who have done the legwork to investigate who is behind this group and what they might be up to. The great Jim Rutenberg and andrew kruczynski. Jim, thank you. I appreciate you coming on tonight. I was curious when he saw the log cabin ads. Theyre not a wellfunded organization but they seem to have an enormous amount of money to pay for a New York Times ad. I said where is that money coming from . Its apparently, i dont know if you know this, but its 140,000 to put a fullpage ad in. I said, well, thats interesting. Somebody is feeding them from the back room. Whats going on here . Are these hawks, neocons, socalled people that just want to go to war, they dont like hagels geopolitics . There are definitely hawks who dont like his politics who are out in the open saying we dont want this to go forward. But then there are people in the shadows who are giving a lot of money for these ads who dont say who they are so were only left to speculate. You were able in your reporting to come across the ad group out of the group that makes the ads which is a republican group. Theres also a group called the emergency committee, whatever it is, for israel. Thats two pieces, one partisan, one ideological to tell you where theyre coming from, right . And they happen to share the same firm to buy their media. These are the firms that kind of put Television Ads on the air and some of the firms are partisan and it so happens the group they use, smart media is a republican group. They buy for republicans and republicans only more or less. Let me be the most naive person in the history of television and ask you why dont they come out and say who they are and why theyre opposing this guy . Well, i think in the Huffington Post report they said theyre gay rights democrats okay. But hrc, a group i have worked with for years, almost two decades, is with them, they accept the mans change of heart as part of the countrys change of heart about gay rights and certainly Marriage Equality and who are these people that stay in the shadows and say they have a problem with his positions on guns, on israel, on gay rights, on everything . It just seems like quite a potpourri and, therefore, suspicious i think. I mean, you look at the list of groups that would oppose chuck hagel who are gay Rights Groups who would be willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars who dont want to alienate the white house, and you think maybe the list is down here. You think of conservatives who are willing to do that, and the list is a little bit higher. So, i mean, i think the point is people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. We dont know who it is. Theyre saying theyre gay rights democrats but the fact they use a media farm with ties to the rnc, christine odonnell, i mean, its very sketchy. I think people want to spend all this money to oppose chuck hagel, thats fine but the fact we dont know who it is is a little disconcerting. Here is a statement from a friend of mine chad griffin, president of the human being rights campaign. One of the largest gay Rights Groups. He was conciliatory after hagel apologized for acetie gay comments. He said his apology and statement of support for lgbt equality is appreciated and shows just how far as a country weve come from a former conservative senator from nebraska can have a change of heart on lgbt issues. There they are. Talk about conciliation there, jim. The Lgbt Community and under the name there of the Great OrganizationHuman Rights Campaign are accepting him as an ally. Let me get back to you. Youre a student now as a reporter of media. You have always been a great reporter of media. Now how media works into politics. Are we seeing more of this subterfuge of this, apparent subterfuge . I think this is just the way its going to be unless theres a new law, the disclose act in the senate that were talking about that would make the donors have to step forward. If that doesnt happen, this is the way its going to be done now definitely for the next few years. Expect more of it in the next two campaigns. People like the koch brother, i have heard them, i dont think adelson is the same, but the Koch Brothers believe they have the right to influence american politics big time with lots of spending, big promotion of certain candidates, big opposition to people like the president , and not to have any investigation of who they are, any exposure of their own personal or political involvement. Is that a reasonable thing to believe in . They can have this power without any identity . Last question to you, andrew . I think there are a lot of i mean, someone like Sheldon Adelson or other groups, you think about do they mind spending tons of money against chuck hagel . No. I mean, but are they going to do it disguising as lgbt democrats and you wonder if theyre willing to go that far, but like i said, who is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and not have their name out there who is powerful enough that they dont want to alienate the white house . I mean, it really it doesnt its very sketchy like i said. We dont know who is behind it. Well, theyre not the first wolves in sheeps clothing. That probably doesnt fit but it sounds like a historic combination. Thank you Jim Rutenberg and andrew kaczynski, congratulations for coming on. Just a reminder, tomorrow Andrea Mitchell will interview the outgoing secretary of state. Thats coming up at 1 00 p. M. Tomorrow here on msnbc. Well be using parts of that but if you want to catch the whole thing, watch andrea at 1 00. Political movies are hot stuff, and when can he come back, the great kevin spacey will be here. Hes going to sit right here. He has a new political show called house of cards which is almost ripped from tomorrows headlines if these headlines had occurred. Maybe they wont occur but his show will. This is hardball, the place for politics. O fun to drive. Now, heres one that will make you feel alive. Meet the fivepassenger ford cmax hybrid. Cmax says ha. Cmax says wheeee. Which is what you get, dont you see . Cause cmax has lots more horsepower than prius v, a hybrid that cmax also bests in mpg. Say hi to the allnew 47 combined mpg cmax hybrid. Email marketing from Constant Contact reaches people in a place theyre checking every day their inbox. And it gives you the tools to create custom emails that drive business. Its just one of the ways Constant Contact can help you grow your Small Business. Sign up for your free trial today at constantcontact. Com try. Weve decided to were all having such a great year in the gulf, put aside our rivalry. cause all our states are great. And now is when the gulf gets even better. The beaches and waters couldnt be more beautiful. Take a boat ride or just lay in the sun. Enjoy the wildlife and natural beauty. And dont forget our amazing seafood. So come to the gulf, youll have a great time. Especially in alabama. You mean mississippi. Thats florida. Say louisiana or theres no dessert. Brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. Senate republican leader Mitch Mcconnell famously vowed to make barack obama a oneterm president , and now mcconnell finds some tough sledding in his own bid for reelection. A new poll by the louisville carrier journal finds just 17 of kentucky voters, about 1 in 6, plan to support the senator when he runs for reelection. Not a good start, mitch. Twice as many say theyre going to vote against him. Again, not a good start, senator. And to make things worse for mcconnell, democratic groups on the left if there are any in kentucky are vowing to work with Tea Party Groups on the right to oust him during the Republican Party. Primary. Theyre going to doubleteam this guy. Good luck there, mitch. Well be right back. But we can still help you see your big picture. With the fidelity guided portfolio summary, you choose which accounts to track and use fidelitys analytics to spot trends, gain insights, and figure out what you want to do next. All in one place. Im Meredith Stoddard and i helped create the fidelity guided portfolio summary. Its one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. Now get 200 free trades when you open an account. Ooh baby, can i do for you today . [ female announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance . Align can help. Only align has bifantis, a patented probiotic that naturally helps maintain your digestive balance. Try align to help retain a balanced digestive system. Try the 1 gastroenterologist recommended probiotic. Align. Welcome back to hardball. Anybody who watches hardball knows i love politics. Another thing i love are movies and tv shows about politics, and i cant remember a time when there were more great films and shows to choose from. Look at this. Lincoln, argo, all on the sbig screen. Sitcoms like 1600 penn and dramas like homeland, the president s favorite on tv. What this tells me is im not alone. Americans are into politics right now, including the dramatic kind. Now, the great kevin spacey has joined in with his entry the Political Drama house of cards. He plays a House Majority whip who has been passed up for secretary of state. A slight to tease up the conflict to come. He didnt like being treated like this. Lets watch. Is the president elect running late . No, he couldnt make it. Ill brief him though. Okay. This is the memo ive drafted on our middle east drafted on our middle east policy weve been drafting. Id lucky to borrow from reagan. Im going to coin the phrase trickle down im going to stop you there. Were not nominating you secretary of state. I know he made you a promise, but circumstances have changed. The nature of promises, linda, is that they remain immune to changing circumstances. I love that face. Joining me the executive producer of house of cards, kevin spacey. I was thinking of john kerry because i thought john kerry was going to be secretary of state and then susan rice. Right. I couldnt tell if there had been some internation from the president that he was going to get it. So when i watched that tease there, i said oh my god, this is going to be like wag the dog when they knew the girl was wearing a beret before the girl was wearing a beret. This is going to be the art preceding life. So what is this . Where did you get the idea . I heard its richard iii. The original book that was written by michael dobbs, he based his character largely on richard iii. I think because he was in margaret thatchers government, he was her press secretary, i think when he got out it was with a bad taste in his mouth. So he wrote this based on revenge and richard iii and iago. It came from david rebooting the series to the United States. We thought it would transfer incredibly well. It was a big hit series in britain in the 1990s. And they called him francis ercott. Im francis underwood, the initials still fu. You played ron klain. Right. You played an inside guy, inside, not king, not president. Those characters seem more interesting today, the ones that seem inside the woodwork, the guys, the men and women that make the calls that hope for this, hope for that and do have these intramural fights going on. Its been really fascinating to me to learn about. The current majority whip Kevin Mccarthy met with me, was really generous with him time. So did steny hoyer, the minority whip in congress. And thinking about what it must be like to corral 218 senators to vote the way you want them to vote is kind of crazy. Obviously weve seen in the last congress it isnt that easy to do. But ive learned a lot. What have you earned about ambition in politics . I think even secretary clinton, who is massively admired by me and everyone else, never talks about what she wants. She can never say i want to be president , for example. Right. And you are doing a study in gross ambition. This guy wants to get ahead, get even with people who dont help him get ahead. Look, its really interesting. There have been incredible political figures in the past who now are sort of being reexamined, like lyndon johnson, for example. You start to look at how people are saying yes, he was ruthless, but he was also remarkably effective president in a very short number of years. So i think what our show has attempted to do on some levels is to have that moral conundrum of, you know, what someone does to get something done. Its like watching the film lincoln now. Its so fascinating that this character who for most americans is perhaps the most saintly of all president s in terms of the way he is portrayed in history was actually doing back door deals because he needed the votes. He wanted to win that and get slavery abolished. And its an amazing question about if someone does something that is dastardly and diabolical, is it worth it in the end. Whats the connection between great actors like yourself. Ive seen you do inherit the wind for three hours. That was very kind. I thought it was worth coming across the atlantic to see it. The amazing ego it takes to command the stage for three hours, bill clinton, that amazing confidence. Its not just reagan who was acting in politics. It seems all politicians have a dramatic ego. And some are better actors than others. Some are not very good communicators. Nixon, you could see right through him. Yeah. And to some degree i think clinton is probably one of the best communicators weve ever had. And i think to a certain degree i think there is in the legal profession, i think in politics, obviously what you do, whenever youre in a position where part of your job is to convince your audience of an idea. Yeah. Thats true from an actors perspective. You try to get a playwrights ideas across to an audience. You want to connect with my audience right now . Sure. Do you like obama . I love obama. Thank you. Youve done your thing. Kevin spacey loves obama, has 13 episodes on netflix, house of cards. It starts friday, february 1. Go for it. When we return, let me finish with john kerrys confirmation as secretary of state and the upcoming hearing on chuck hagel. Theyre already going at him surreptitiously. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. Change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the Aerospace Industry in the u. S. . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 75 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. 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Let me finish tonight with this. John kerry was just confirmed as secretary of state. The decision by the senate left only three members voting nay. Who they are tells you a lot. Most importantly, how excellent this appointment was for the president. One is ted cruz, the guy who opposes both kerry for state and chuck hagel for defense. How interesting. Two people who have fought for their country, the vietnam war, been awarded medals for their service. Ted cruz was never serving in the military, but insists these two gutsy veterans dont deserve the office to which the president has appointed them. Dont you just love these people . They dont like the military enough to join it, they dump on people who served and have the nerve to ask for more war. Ask the typical hawk what he thought the war was looking back, a bad idea. Putting our marines into lebanon, somalia. My appearance experience is they like them all. Not only that, but they are always, as i said, ready for another. Iraq, yes. Afghanistan, yes. Iraq again, yes. Iran, lets go. Why do people listen to these types . Why the kneejerk salute every time one of these armchair hawks itches for another conflict . Im glad we have kerry now as the same reason im glad there was an anwar sadat, a yitzhak rabin. And out of the disastrous suze campaign. Im glad the hawks arent going to be able to stop