legislative agenda. is the third achievable? and sorry state of affairs. last week it was joe barton. this week general mcchrystal. suddenly public figures everywhere seem to be saying i'm sorry. why sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word anymore. can you name the last president to support a mustache? here's a hint. he was elected in 1908 and succeeded teddy roosevelt. william howard taft. is 100 years since they were in the white house. let me finish with afghanistan. who are we fighting for against there and why? let's start with lin ral opposition to the president's afghan war strategy. democratic strategist gym from massachusetts sent a letter to pelosi asking she hold off on war funding. and -- from new york has also signed onto that. gentlemen, thank you for joining us. i guess the question is what are we fighting for in afghanistan? can you discern the president's strategy? let's hear your best version, congressman mcgovern, of what you believe is the president's war policy. the same thing i'll ask of congressman adler. >> of all the problems this president inherited from george bush, the war in afghanistan is getting more complicated with each passing day. in the last month i've lost two of my constituents. two brave young men who lost their lives fighting in afghanistan. we need to get this right. the mcchrystal interview and the comments by a lot of leading military experts have raised a lot of questions. the president is fudging on the date we'll begin withdrawal. we need to get this right. >> congressman adler, your thoughts. give me a perspective. who are we fighting? what do we hope to achieve? what's your sense of the actual war strategy now? i know we have rules of engagement that basically says don't shoot anybody unless they're shooting at us because that means they're a civilian. >> i don't think there are any good answers to any of those questions which is why i think we ought to rapidly withdraw from afghanistan. because i don't understand the strategy or the goal. we originally went to afghanistan because we said al qaeda has base camps there. we need to get rid of the base camps. we have to eliminate them. we did. okay, the taliban are helping al qaeda, we punished them. now the situation seems to have morphed into we need to remake the government of afgs, we have to put it on a solid footing. we have to remake the whole government. that is beyond our capability, and frankly, it's none of our business. >> well, i guess the question is can we do what the british couldn't do, what the soviets couldn't do? could we create a government wide or country wide government for the country? here's what the president said yesterday about the timetable for withdrawal yesterday. it's quite different from joe biden. let's listen to the president. >> we did not say that starting july 2011 suddenly there would be no troops from the united states or allied countries in afghanistan. we didn't say we would be switching off the lights and closing the door behind us. we said we would begin a transition phase in which the afghan government is taking on more and more responsibility. >> well, that seems to run counter to what vice president biden told author jonathan alder. he said in july 2011 you'll see a lot of people moving out. bet on it. so joe biden seems to be talking to the democratic left, if you will, the base. while the president seems to be talking to the sent r or the right. are they talking about cowboy movements with a fork tongue here? >> we need an initiative. which we don't have. when you go to war there's a mid beginning, middle, transition period and an end. there's mixed signals for the white house. the republicans just yesterday told the american people that we can't afford to extend unemployment benefits for those out of work right now. many of our fellow citizens because we don't have the money. yet when it comes to supporting president karzai, a corrupt leader, we're a bottomless pit. we need some clarity here. that clarity needs to include an exit strategy, which we don't have right now. >> let me ask you congressman nadler, what's the difference between the bush strategy in afghanistan and the obama strategy? we know we have the same secretary of defense. now we have the same field kmanter petraeus. we have gates, petraeus, the only thing missing is "w" himself. what two policies can you discern? >> i cannot discern a purpose other than a stated intention to begin withdrawing either small numbers or large numbers of troops with an august of 2011 date. both the obama administration and the bush administration seem intent on using american military force to prop u a corrupt government and to bring a settlement to a 30-year civil war in that country. i don't believe as i said before it's our business to do that. i don't believe it's our capability to do that. we need to use our business and our funding to protect the united states and our allies. al qaeda is an enemy. wherever al qaeda is it makes sense to disrupt the operations. we are told there are fewer than 100 al qaeda in the entire country. >> let's go to what general petraeus said. he seems to be the authority figure, gentlemen on the whole issue. here he is on june 16th a few days ago. he testified on the hill. here's what he had to say about the timetable. let's listen. >> it is important that july 2011 be seen for what it is. the date when a process begins based on conditions, not the date when the u.s. heads for the exits. >> who sets the conditions? general petraeus is a hawk. congressman mcgovern and congress nadler, or the president? who decides when conditions have been met? >> well, the president of the united states is our commander in chief. he makes the decisions in consultations with general petraeus. there is no exit strategy. petraeus' comments amplify that fact. we don't know how this will end. we've been there ten years. we were originally going after al qaeda. al qaeda has now moved to other places. what we need to do is find a way to extricate ourselves from afghanistan, get the afghan government to stand up and do its job, and we need to then go after the enemy. those who are responsible for killing so many of our people on september 11th. al qaeda is our enemy. we need to redirect the efforts to getting to them. >> congressman nadler, last word. >> the taliban are not nice people. i would hate to be an afghani if they were ruling. it's not our job and it's not our capability to set every country right. we have to invest our resources where it's important to defend us and our allies. right now i don't see afghanistan as being one of those places. >> thank you very much congressman mcgovern and congressman nad ler from new york. congressman mcgovern is from massachusetts. please note, "meet the press" with a whole hour on afghanistan. coming up, president obama is on the verge of another big win. wall street reform set to pass next week. after health care reform, it's the second of three big campaign promises he's delivered on so far. he's got the energy bill. it's called the spill bill. may be a small bill. but we'll see if he can get the triple crown. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. 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neutrogena® cosmetics recommended most by dermatologists. welcome back to "hardball." president obama has a hot hand of domestic issues today. first health care reform passed. now wall street reform looks like it's going to get through, and there might even be an energy bill before the election, believe it or not, because of the spill. something's got to give. will voters reward or punish democrats for all of this. congressman, i don't know whether -- it used to be the members of congress would get a card when they went home on break and say here's what was accomplished here. how do you do that on the face of the spill and the face of a lousy economy zm. >> i don't know. we're really not getting talking points for the white house. but there's a lot to talk about. this may be the most successful last six months in american history. i can't think of time when we'ved as much as we have. in the last six months more jobs were created than bush was able to generate in eight years, chris. people don't understand that. >> but you have 41,000 civilian jobs in may. is that a good number. >> you know, we had a lot of census bureau employees, granted. but the fact is, the economy has come back from the brink. a lot of that is because of presidential leadership. it is the economic stimulus that pumped money into the economy. it worked. health care reform. that's transformational. and it was an enormous legislative victory when you figure the republican party will vote against everything. they're going to vote no against anything he offers. yet, he got that through. in the house we got the energy bill through. i think we're probably going to get an energy review. now we have wall street reform. those are enormous legislative victories. i know people think it's not enough somehow because president obama doesn't get on and stomp and rah-rah, but he's kind of an understated guy. i think there's a lot of reasons for that. the fact is he's shown a whole lot of results. then when you look at foreign policy. i know we're in an intractable situation in afghanistan. but the reputation the united states around the world has improved immeasurably. he's going to the g-20 summit. they're also going to listen to him. they take him seriously, which was not the case in the last eight years with president bush. we're getting out of iraq, and we're going to figure out what to do with afghanistan, too. even though it's perhaps one of the most difficult foreign policy that any president has faced. >> i don't know. congressman has a megaphone giving a real sales pitch, jim, as a journalist you put this in context. the legtdive victory on health care. the legislative victory coming up on wall street which everybody is going to support. we have to do something about long-term needs. yet we have the weak economy and we have the oil spill. how do you put it all together? is it better that he got this done than not? >> i think politically getting this bill done obviously helps the president, probably helps democrats, and i don't think anyone can dispute what the congressman said as far as how much obama has done during his presidency. what the pushback will be from republicans is, yes, he's done a lot. he's done too much. he's grown government way too big. if you look at the cumulative size of the deficits, if you look at the expanding size of washington, the question for independents is did they do too much, too fast, for too little? i don't think we're going to know until people hit the campaign trail, start to argue about health care, start to argue about the economy, and we see the results of this, which won't come in until after august. so much has happened in this counted in the last couple months that nobody has had a chance to digest it and make a firm opinion of obama. there's been very little talk of health care in most of the key races so far despite the fact it was a trillion-dollar program and one of the biggest expansions we've seen in many, many years. >> the big issue republicans love to talk about is big spending. it's in the "wall street journal" poll. admittedly with a terrible record under bush. even jack kennedy back in '62 as you know at the yal speech made the case for bad economics. when there's bad economics there's a sluggish economy. the government has to compensate for that. they have to run a deficit. if the president doesn't make the case i just made in ten seconds, nobody is going to make it. the republicans run as in the deficit is a mistake. wait a minute, the worst thing we can do is balance the budget. >> ezra klein made a great case in sunday's post business section. the fact is a lot of what the federal government is doing is being negated by states and localities. they're saying, hey, i'm holding your taxes steady as opposed to what the federal government is doing. the reason they're able to is because of the stimulus. almost 40% of the money they have available is federal money. now they're coming to us saying hey, you've got to continue the stimulus. we're out of money. 300,000 teachers going to be given their pink slips this summer if you don't give us another stimulus. same with police and firefighters. some of the members of congress say, it's about time you gave us a little credit for it. because that's where all the push back is coming politically in these congressional races, we're spending too much. we basically bailed out the states and localities. but their retrenchment has negate ad lot of what we could have achieved in terms of recovering this economy, chris. >> that's an interesting point. it looks to me like a lot of jobs the president has created are jobs of state and local levels. counties that would have laid off firemen and teachers and all kindsover first responding haven't had to do so because of the stimulus bill. yet, the mayor gets credit for not firing anybody. the president gets none. isn't that the reality? >> it's a reality. this is going to be the challenge for the next few months. if people feel like the economy is not improving, that the potential for new jobs is not on the horizon, then democrats suffer for it. there's certainly a feeling in the country now that things aren't going the right way. people are ticked off at washington. they're ticked off at wall street. they're angry with institutions. i don't think the fact that there's been a lot of accomplishments alone is enough to galvanize voters around democrats at this point. for voters who want a choice, there could not be a more clear choice for voters heading into this election as far as the varying size of the views. yes, republicans are being hypocrite call when they talk about spending given that bush had a $6 trillion debt when he took office, left with more than $10 trillion in debt. now they're talking about cutting spending. they're opposing every single thing that obama does. voters will go to the booth and see two very, very different world views. >> isn't the smart thing the republicans did is cashier president bush? they deny he exist. the latest polling shows no support among people for bush because no republican will defend him. because by not defending bush anymore, republicans can walk around with a clean slate and say we're against government waste. we're against government spending. by not defending him. a brilliant move. >> i don't know how brilliant it is. but it's effective. bush never existed. those eight years, they're gone. when you bring them up, oh, that's the past. we're talking about the future. gosh, thanks, guys. that's why we're stuck with what we're stuck with. our pitch now is that things are not as bad as they could have been. even to say things not nearly as bad. that's not -- >> why do you let the tea party people attack you for the bailout, when the bailout was bush? i'm amazed by that. he did the bailout on wall street. he did the bailout of the automotive industry. >> his bail jng out went to the banks. ours went to states and localities. >> you started off by saying, all right. we have a low-key president. he won't brag. isn't that a problem? >> well -- >> isn't it a problem? if you don't blow your own horn, who will? he won't blow it. >> the reality is as an african-american who has got as far as he's gotten, he's not a rou rouser. he's not a grand stander. that's his personality. he's reflective. we need to do a little more grand standing because it's our necks on the line in november november. we have a very good president. we've accomplished a lot. let the chips fall where they may. we may lose ten or 20 seats. i don't think we'll lose anywhere near 30. we're going to continue to accomplish a who whole lot in the next year, two and a half years. and i think he's going to get reelected. it's a tough time. you have a political party that will vote no on anything. >> somewhere along the line somebody has to say the united states government is based on the idea you have a minority an a majority. not the idea that one is trying to kill them. one is a senior partner, and the other trying to get its oar in and make amendments and change things. the minority's job is not to destroy the united states government every time it gets up in the morning. yet, the republicans are able to get up in the morning every day saying our goal is to destroy the government. that's our job. and somehow the cheering section back homes says good work. >> i don't know if they're out to destroy the government. but to destroy any policy from obama. no doubt. >> isn't that new in american politics to try to destroy anything that comes out of the white house? >> it certainly works. part of it -- it's worse now because most of the moderates that used to live in the republican party that lived in the northeast were purged out of the party over the last three or four elections. there's very few moderates per se left. there may be three or four left in the senate. those are the ones democrating are working over to make sure they have enough votes to get the financial bill through. the only way you'll have any republicans who want to work with democrats or if republicans pick up a bunch of seats in the swing districts and bring in some voices of moderation that want po to work with democrats. right now there's no incentive in the mind of republicans to do anything to help obama or to help democrats. they feel they have the momentum. they feel they can pick up 30 seats and pick up many for they play the cards right. >> to what effect? what good does it do the country for the republicans to pick up 30 seats in the house? >> i don't know if it does anything good for the country. but it might -- you may have more people that would be willing to work with obama, and you may have obama more willing to work with republicans. right now we have an entire system. we have a media system. we have a culture. we have technology that really rewards conflict. and therefore, republicans right now don't see any incentive to work with them. that's not going to change between now and election day. it may not change election day. heck, it could get a lot worse if you look at senators getting elected from the republican side. >> a suicide bomber is the new political role model. kill everything, destroy everything. blow it up. nothing gets done. you're dead, but who cares? jim moran, thank you. up next, after falling out of fashion, this is so lightweight. it's friday. give us a break. the mustache is back. it's friday. we're having fun tonight. in a side show at least. which politicians are starting to sport the 'stache? you think this is below you, jim? 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[ whistle blows ] but 6 months later, when you've been broadsided by an suv, who do you call? not the name of the company, but the name of the person. i'm sorry. what was your name again? at allstate, you get a licensed professional who'll stand by you. not just a voice at a phone bank. you deserve a real relationship. that's allstate's stand. [ whistle blows ] [ dennis ] are you in good hands? msnbc. back to "hardball." first a man with one name. you know the movie and tv cowboys with one name? you know sugarfoot and ringo and poncho. add rory to the list. he's running for governor of nevada. by the way, it's nevada, dude. he's the son of majority leader harry reid. you've heard of the man with no name. this is a fellow with no last name. watch. >> when we choose our next governor, we should remember to ask. >> do they have the highest ethical standards? we should remember to ask. >> do they follow their own instincts? >> do they understand that a stronger economy depends on stronger schools? >> and do they have a plan to totally transform our schools? >> my plans as governor are all about them, and when it comes to their education, i'll never, ever compromise. >> that's rory. zero, zip, nada mention of his last name. what was the lone ranger's last name. reid. the mustache has been out of fashion for a long time. especially in politics. but politico reports it could be making a comeback. you have north dakota governor john hoven. his mustache has gotten him to facebook. his own page with 750 followers. the only to support the stache, the last jon corzine of new jersey with a full beard. you have two familiar faces from the obama team. eric holder and david axelrod. tom selleck has one, too. not many. tomorrow starts the 60th anniversary of the korean war. north korea is demanding a for $65 trillion for the united states. yes, that's trillion. for a perspective, by the way, the americansous gross domestic product, gdp is exactly $14 trillion. north korea calculates they owe it $65 trillion in compensation. tonight's absolutely insane crazy big number. up next, last week it was congressman joe barton. this week, general stanley mcchrystal. why are so many public figures saying i'm sorry these days? it's the fusion proglide challenge. whoo! hey man, how ya doin'? how's your shave? kinda like tuggin' and pullin'. see how shaving can cause irritating tug and pull? 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[ male announcer ] now, fusion proglide has been engineered with gillette's thinnest blades ever so it glides for less tug and pull. turns shaving into gliding. and skeptics into believers. new fusion proglide. and warm up before you shave for incredible comfort with new proseries thermal scrub. this is your cnbc market wrap. stocks bouncing back with struggling. the dow jones industrial is ending nine points lower after being down more than 60 points around mid morning. the s&p 500 tacking on three points and the nasdaq adding six. banks, of course, seeing some of the biggest gains as congress reach ad deal on financial reform. the bill waters down a proposal to make banks spin off their trading desk. analysts predict little short-term impact. and earnings news. research in motion shares skidding almost 11%. the blackberry maker missed a sales target and is feeling the heat of a highly competitive smart phone market. and kb home shares tumbling 9% after reporting a wider than expected loss. analysts it's losing the luster as the earnings compared to last year is winding down. now back to "hardball." it's friday night. i could listen to that all night. back to "hardball." republican congressman joe barton, general stanley mcchrystal and now jd hayworth now going public with their culpa. you know, i don't know what -- barton, nobody ever went down harder than he. he wanted bp to be the good guy. he went out there and took their side. everybody tackled him at once. you better apologize or you're a dead man. >> it's rare you have to apologize for an apology. he managed to pull it off. his second apology wasn't a real apology. it was a non-apology. it was one of those things that says, you know, if anything i've said this morning was misconstr misconstrued, i want to apologize for that misskrux. that's what he said. >> he used it twice. >> so it's the fault of the listener. maybe the listener should apologize. >> here's what he said at last week's hearing. here's what he said about bp being forced to pay that escrow fund under influence from the president. here's what he said the first time out. >> i think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be suggested to what i would characterize as a shakedown. so i'm only speaking for myself. i'm not speaking for anybody else. but i apologize. >> well, that's what a bleeding heart republican sounds like. just hours later congressman barton was forced to retract his apology to bp or bring up a new apology for having apologized. here's this. >> if anything i've said this morning has been misconstrued in an on sit effect, i want to apologize for that misconstructi misconstruction. >> in defense of joe barton -- >> you notice the hair messed up the second time. somebody was beating him up in the back room. >> the republican study committee the day before had described the president's action towards bp as a chicago style shakedown. tom price's group. so what he's apologizing for is, well, number one he apologized to bp. but he's apologizing for creating this embarrassment. not so much for what they believe. >> can i ask you a you're not supposed to ask? which is the real joe barton. the one who thought they should be nice to bp or the one who thought he made a mistake? >> the one who thought he should be nice to bp. that's the thing. no matter how many apologies, they say they were forced to make the poll ji. negating the purpose of apology. >> it is under duress and carefully constructed. you say, i'm sorry. >> those fools that didn't master miz the points. here's one that really does matter. this is general stan lea mcchrystal was relieved of duty after his article in "rolling stone." before that he put out this statement. quote, i extend my sincerest apology for this profile. it was a mistake reflecting poor judgment and should never have happened. there's a statement. poor judgment. when a guy messes around with somebody besides his wife, he says poor judgment. i thought it was my wife. >> i give him credit for doing a straightup apology. you're right about the judgment. how drunk do you have to be frank in front of a "rolling stone" reporter? is that the time and place? >> by the way, there is a story here. somebody in public relations at the military trying to do their job said we have a recruitment problem with young counter culture bling. the only way to reach them is to get into the rolling stones. so spend some quality time. loosen up. have some fun. you don't think general mcchrystal is the guy to read and hang around with "rolling stone"? come on? >> once again, he doesn't apologize. he doesn't say he was wrong for what he believed. he said he was wrong to agree to say it to rolling stone. >> the revelation is the military does have a problem with policy in afghanistan. >> i thought it was the more devastating part of the rolling stone interview. >> let's look at this one here. we have john mccain's right wing, jd hayward. in 2007 a 3-year-old infomercial hyping ways to build the federal government. this is mr. sound money. h hayworth said i should not have made the ad. it was a mistake. i believed this to be a reputable firm. but i did not completely check out the organization. rog roger, he knew what the organization was. >> then he said later, let the buyer beware. maybe that goes with voters, too. >> when stockman went out for "rolling stone" and told the whole reagan fiscal policy doesn't add up. instead of it being a revelation, they fell for the wood shed thing. he told us what was really going on. >> if you say something that gets you into trouble in politics, you can do two things. you can say i was right. listen to me, of say i'm sorry. please forgive me. it's smarter to make an apology. >> then they say afterwards you were forced to apologize. i've been there. i know how it works. it's very unpleasant. we're kidding about it. nobody enjoys this process. >> you only know about about sincere apologies. >> i have a case to say things i shouldn't have said. incomplete truths. is this going to go on? with is brenda lee going to sing us to bed tonight? >> the public likes to see it. we like to see people brought high, brought low. >> didn't woe enjoy -- mcchrystal week was like, i wrote a chapter in one of my books. no one is late for an execution. this town loves executions. you know, the joy of an upcoming execution where somebody is about to get canned, about to get fired. about to get divorced. every time pain happens in the town people have a thrill out of it. >> but mcchrystal's comments went far. >> we're kidding about this. but i think j.d. hayworth is funny. >> the classic case is bill clinton. lied to everyone. lied to, you know, the american public directly. his wife, his daughter, the congress. everybody. >> i am bullet proof. >> all he did was apologize. he kept his job. he's a hero today. >> the economy was booming when he was prosecute. everybody was swimming along. everybody was happy. we weren't at war. why blame him for that? nixon got in trouble for a stupid break-in coverup in the middle of stagflation. >> i don't think nixon said he was sorry. >> you didn't see the movie. thank you. happy friday. it's good to have you back again and again. roger simon. ♪ im sorry >> this is friday night. couple beers. listening to this throughout the night. enjoying your pain. we'll be right back. this is "hardball" on msnbc. this is america. to make the morning coffee. so world's best mom was more than happy to make a cup of delicious starbucks via. she got to the office just in time to save best friend forever from the office coffee. best friend forever bravely shared starbucks via with don't talk to me until my second cup before he even had his first. he shared it with i hate mondays who had three cups because it was, after all, monday. premium starbucks via ready brew. now available wherever you buy groceries. ♪ tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to help with my investments. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if i could change one thing... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we'd all get a ton of great advice tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just for being a client. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i mean, shouldn't i be able to talk about my money tdd# 1-800-345-2550 without it costing me a fortune? 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[ dog barking ] [ sniffing ] [ male announcer ] missing something? like 2 pairs of bifocals for $149.99 at sears optical, with progressive lenses for just $25 more per pair. hurry in to sears optical today and don't miss a thing. back to "hardball." this week in the blagojevich trial the jury heard some choice phone conversations. we're going to play them for you and get reaction from jim warren, a columnist from "the new york times" and carol marine, plitico columnist from "the sun times." here's rod blagojevich getting word on the senate seat held by the president. let's listen. >> hey, how are you? >> so. valerie is out. >> yeah. i just got a call from rob. >> rahm wanted her. >> three issues. >> go ahead. >> he wanted to hur up. i'm available to speak to him if he'd like to. >> go ahead. go ahead, quick. >> he found names acceptable not in any rank order. . >> later in the conversation blagojevich gave his opinion of that list. let's listen. >> wow. it's a b.s. list is basically what he said there. you're all chuckling. jim, you first and then carol. what do you make of that sort of asking for who the president wants. put the line out there to see what he jumps at. what's he up to? >> well, he's fishing around, speaking of lines. it's also clear that can sense increasing difference between themselves in one hand and the obama transition team on one other and there is a suspicion which is manifested by that earthly language as to what the motives are in passing out those particular names. distinctly, mainstream diverse group. you almost get the sense that they sort of feel like they are being played and the obama folks want those names to be leaked. but clearly that also dovetails with this sense of how should i sell myself, too, and that gets into what seems to be a little bit of the almost sociopathic narcassism that goes on. >> it seems what he's saying there is that he's saying that they are putting out the usual diversity list. they are not really serious about any of these people because they are all so different and they are not putting out a favorite, clearly. if you want one person, you put one name out, let's face it. that's how you do t he says, i can get this. i can give it to myself and nobody is going to be mad at me. your thoughts? >> let's remember, he doesn't care what barack obama wants. rod blagojevich in 2002 when he got elected governor was already planning to run for president himself. he thinks barack obama is guy that suddenly jumps over him, eclipses him, becomes the favorite son of the world, and he's not particularly enamored of barack obama. >> let's take a look at this. i'm going to ask you, where is the criminalality in all of this. here is what he is saying. let's listen. >> jim, you first. where the criminality? what is the important here? >> a bunch of things heard this week were absolute manifestations of his unceasing, plotting, and scheming. his virtual disinterest in policy and the administration. >> but where is the crime? >> so far this week it got fairly close when one had a racetrack owner extorted for a potential campaign contribution return for the governor signing a particular bill that would bring him $1.5 million a year to each of two racetracks but it didn't -- one doesn't have the governor himself saying that. >> here's the skug, carol -- i'm sorry. go ahead. >> and he didn't get the money. what you're raising is exactly what the defense is raising. what they are ultimately going to try to do is say that this rod blagojevich is the original three-g network. he's greedy, greg gar yous, he's a nut, but he didn't do anything that is illegal. >> let me ask this question. is it possible this that said you can't go to jail, can't go to prison for denying your public services to people, this general catch-all case, is it possible that he will not have a prosecution successful here because that's not the law anymore? >> no, because they knew they were going to lose that case. they reindicted him. so, no, there's no problem with that. >> is this guy any better off because of the supreme court ruling the other day? >> no. and right now what jim is saying, when they recast this indictment and put in attempted bribery and extortion, all they need to prove the case is that an tempted was made and one act in its further rans. so i don't think so. >> thank you very much, jim warren, carol marin. when we come back, the war in afghanistan. who are we fighting there and why? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. your father is suffering. ♪ [ male announcer ] honey nut cheerios cereal tastes great and can help lower cholesterol. bee happy. bee healthy. i'm in pain... 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[ whistle blows ] [ dennis ] are you in good hands? you can do this... get the ball. get the ball, girl. hmmm, you can't do that. but you can do this. it's the simple things. new scientifically formulated bengay pain relief + massage with penetrating nubs gives you the targeted relief of a massage plus the powerful, long-lasting pain relief of bengay. bengay pain relief + massage. visit bengay.com/relief for a $3.00 coupon. love the nubs! let me finish tonight with a bag fat question about this war's policy. we're at war in afghanistan, right? who are we fighting? the one led by karzai? but aren't we told that karzai is corrupt? he stole the election. okay. we're backing him even though he's corrupt and stole the election but we don't want taliban to govern because that means they may take over pakistan. doesn't pakistan think that karzai is corrupt? he's seen as the enemy by people we're actually trying to protect. pakistan. but isn't there word out there that karzai may be cutting a deal with pakistan? okay? so we're back to corrupt, stole the election, and don't trust him and he may be working a deal with the taliban? this is a land where anyone without a rifle shooting at that moment is a civilian. the second they start shooting at us, that may be the soldier's last second. okay. so we're really fighting in afghanistan for a stalemate between karzai, who we don't trust, and the taliban cheered on by our number one ally, the pakistanis. if it's hard to explain much less defend why we're fighting over there, isn't this why the american people are having a hard time getting used to the word victory? as thomas of the "new york times" put it this week, you know you're in trouble when you're in a war in which the only objectives are clear whose rhetoric is consist sent and will to fight never