Crush the party fringes. So the fights begun. While steve king, the infamous joe walsh, Rush Limbaugh, paul brown, all the inhabitants of the cuckoo nest are scrambling because karl rove is drawing lines in the sand. Rape candidates, witches, second remedy amendment types. Stop making the democrats look smart and reasonable by running candidates. The joy is that each of the rightwing fascists thinks they are the same ones. The ones who have to protect the party from the others. Tonight the duel to the death drives deeper, its do or die, fight to the death. The winners get to run against hillary clinton. The losers get to say its not their fault they lost. That doesnt make sense. Neither does the fight on the right. With me tonight are two msnbc political analysts. Joy, it really is a joy to watch this. To watch rove running around as a new matt dillon cleaning up the party, cleaning up main street from all the bad guys, when many people would say karl rove has been the problem from, well, since 2000 when he brought dubya in. I love the way you call him the cuckoos nest. Karl roves whole strategy is he found a way to convince the cuckoos nest that george w. Bush was their guy. And to convince evangelicals that george w. Bush was your guy. And convince the business wing of the party and say george w. Bush is your guy. He sold them a bill of goods, and what they got back was Medicare Part d, a ballooning deficit, and a financial crisis that devastated the country, a failed war a war in iraq that was illadvised to put it mildly, and now the cuckoos nest who he cultivated as the ground troops, the shock troops to win elections in 2000 and 2004, they think theyre in charge and theyre not going to listen to him saying theyre not. What was the big thing with karl rove . Did he start a war to celebrate the tax cut or have a tax cut to celebrate the war. I mean, he put it all together. Joy put it right. I forgot to mention the Prescription Drug thing thrown in without financing it. Right, right, right. And, you know, he did do a great job in the ots mobilizing and energizing the right wing base to get behind george w. Bush, and then he and others did a great job in the last few years under barack obama of energizing them by demonizing barack obama and pushing them to the fringe. Rove went on fox last night to defend himself and to profess his love for the tea party. What is he up to . Hes trying to trash can these people. Lets watch. I love these groups that are criticizing us saying theyre fake conservatives. Well, i repeat, we spent 30 million for Tea Party Senate candidates and 25 million. Theres no group that comes close to what crossroads has done in terms of Financial Support for tea party candidates. And we believe you. The question is not tea party or not, its a question of whether or not theyre a bad candidate or not. So what does oreilly think of these people . Oreilly has an iq. I may disagree with him, but he must be looking at rove like whats your latest stuff here . What are you selling here . Exactly. He might as well karl rove should have written on that whiteboard, i have no principles. Karl rove doesnt care what the ideology is. Hes just selling a product. Remember, hes the guy who described the iraq war as a product and said you dont take a product to market in august. This guy is into power. Hes always been into just getting power for its own sake. His first ever campaign he was involved in was in college when he snuck onto the campaign of a democrat running for Something Like treasurer in illinois and wrote those leaflets which hes distributed to homeless shelters saying, for a good time and free women and liquor, come to this democrats rally. This guy has no principles. Sliding down the iq scale here to Texas Governor rick perry. He told Laura Ingraham today that the tea party isnt at fault for the losses wracked up by republicans. Lets listen to governor perry. I would suggest to you that people who try to moderate their views to win a particular vote are going to be weaker and weaker as time goes. I think people want to see people they believe, people they trust, and people that are going to be consistent in their positions. So moderation from the standpoint of in pursuit of electoral victory is a failure in my opinion. You know, every once in a wile somebody comes along in politics who doesnt know anything about politics. Spiro agnew would talk about people being squishy soft on communism, unaware of the whole mccarthy period, 20 years of that kind of talk getting you in nothing but trouble. Heres a guy who calls himself a texas conservative who has no memory or any knowledge of, apparently, the history of modern conservatism. When he said moderation gets you in trouble, well, lets listen to Barry Goldwater who cooked his party for years with this line back in 64. I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. You know, all i can say is wow. That kind of straight from the hip, right wing talk, and theres perry with absolutely no knowledge of this kind of talk that moderation weakens you. Civility dont tell me you have any expectations okay. Im just setting him up. Let me play off are you accusing me of parroting these guys if i suggest they might have had an iq . Yes. Let me play off something joy said. She talked about karl rove in a very cynical way, and i agree with that. But at the same time there is a divide and theres always been in the Republican Party between the establishment crowd and the populist what side is rove on . Right now hes more establishment, but when a party is out of thats what a Party Establishment looks like. Exactly. But when a party is out of power, thats when these tensions come out and they start eating their own. They cant go after barack obama now, but in order to maintain their own power and to have a debate you know, lets get back to the person stuff. Rush limbaugh sided with the tea party earlier this week saying roves plan will backfire on conservatives. Lets watch. The establishment republicans, the inside the beltway establishment types, remember, these are the people that supported Charlie Crist over marco rubio. These are the brains. These are the guys who are going to protect the Republican Party from you. They also opposed rand paul. And, remember, they supported Arlen Specter over pat toomey and on and on. There are countless examples. The bottom line is they dont have any better record at picking winners than the, quote, unquote, amateur Tea Party Types do. And even when they pick winners, what do we end up winning . We get squishy republican moderates. Theres that squishy. They got tax hikes for we have to remind ourselves this is this man. They say a certain kind of bug or insect would survive a nuclear war. We dont have to use those terms, but we know which bug it is. Look at the rap sheet on this guy, karl rove. Lets go down memory lane and remind ourselves at least, if the right wing doesnt, of some of karl roves greatest hits. As a top adviser to george w. Bush, he sold the war in iraq to everybody it seems. He got off scotfree even though he was at the center of the cia leak scandal. Walked from that one. The architect couldnt help a republican majority in the 2006 midterms bring the democrats back to power in both the house and senate for the first time. He blew it all on the table. And in 2012 the Sunlight Foundation reported that crossroads had a 1 , 1 in 100, return on its election investment. So karl rove failed putting together a republican realignment, failed in holding the house and the white house and the senate, lost all that. Got involved in the cia leak case, somehow got through that where scooter did get caught and the president actually the Vice President should have been caught. Thats not a good investment, joy, and yet there he is out there telling the Republican Party what its got to do is get rid of the other guys, not him. Absolutely. Im glad you played that clip from Rush Limbaugh because in a lot of ways karl rove and Rush Limbaugh are very much the same. Theyre both using the same sort of knownothing crowd, the people in the hinterlands who are angry, who dont understand why the country is changing, who dont understand the new america they dont feel comfortable in. Theyre both using them to sell a product. For Rush Limbaugh its to get his advertisers there because terrestrial radio is dying and he has to keep his show going. For karl rove its the accumulation of power by tricking people. He doesnt necessarily terrestrial radio. Young lady, youve done it again. Youre teaching me this business im in. What is terrestrial radio radio as opposed to satellite, xm as oppose the to when is the first time when is the first time you used that term in your life . Only because i used to be in the radio business. When youre in radio its like e. T. Terrestrial radio. But karl rove needs a raison detre, a reason to exist. He needs i know french. I know you know french. He needs a reason to exist. The tea party has gotten their market share of the republican product, so he needs both of you guys, tell me this, what percentage of the regular voting Republican Party, the party that voted for dubya, were going to learn something tonight, joy, you first, what percentage of the regular republican voter, the people who vote regular republican for congress and president , is tea party oriented . In other words hard right . I think its a third. I think the Republican Party really is onethird evangelicals, onethird tea party knownothings, and onethird business types. Thanks, joy, have a nice weekend. You, too, david. How deep is the debate over drones . Critics on the progressive left, some of them, and libertarian right are taking issue with the Obama Administration drone policy. This is a family dispute in my house. Polls show most americans support, even most liberals if you will, even when it means killing americans who are plotting with al qaeda to kill other americans. Plus, four senators, two democrats and two republicans, are really working on a deal to expand at least background checks for gun sales. Two of the four senators are members of the nra. If they can strike a deal, then a big part of president obamas gun safety proposals could be within reach. Plus, the terrific movie Silver Linings playbook puts Mental Illness in the spotlight tonight. Were joined by the director of that film, the great david russell, to talk about the issue and the Oscar History the movie could make. I think its got a shot. Texas governor rick perry escalates that war with his california counterpart hes not even slightly a counterpart. Jerry brown is so much better. Thats coming in the sideshow tonight. And this is hardball the place for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. Its hard to turn off and go back to sleep. Intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you cant get back to sleep. Its an effective sleep medicine you dont take before bedtime. Take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. Do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. 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[ bop ] [ bop ] [ bop ] you can do that all you want, i dont like v8 juice. [ male announcer ] how about v8 vfusion. A full serving of vegetables, a full serving of fruit. But what you taste is the fruit. So even you. Couldve had a v8. Welcome back to hardball. Americas drone warfare got a public airing yesterday as president obamas pick to head the cia went before senators at his confirmation hearing. John brennan strongly defended the program of which hes been called the chief architect. I think there is a misimpression on the part of some American People who believe that we take strikes to punish terrorists for past transgressions. Nothing could be further from the truth. We only take such actions as a last resort to save lives when theres no other alternative to taking an action thats going to mitigate that threat. So we need to make sure theres an understanding, and the people that were standing up here today, i think they really have a misunderstanding of what we do as a government and the care that we take and the agony that we go through to make sure that we do not have any collateral injuries or deaths. Well, brennans testimony had been interrupted there you see by code pink five times, by antiwar protesters called code pink. Theyre upset about the drones. Polls show for the most part those protesters out there, and theyre legitimate, represent a small minority of the country. Most americans back using drones to carry out targeted assassinations. And while senators took issue with the white houses secrecy surrounding the program, no one voiced any objections to the drones themselves. This is going to be a hot discussion here, too. Cynthia tucker is a visiting professor at the university of georgia. Ron reagan is an msnbc political analyst. I think youre both progressives. I was driving home from philadelphia last night, and i was listening to the ed show on radio, on satellite, and he took one of those polls. Now, this question was hardly put together in a way thats justified one end of the answer, but it came out the other end i think. Do you support the policy of targeted killings of american citizens . Now, i would think maybe 1 would have said yes the way this was phrased. Do you support the policy of targeted killings of american citizens . 78 said yes. A progressive audience that watches and listens to ed. A progressive audience, 78 while that show is on the air. I think he was surprised by it. I was certainly surprised by it. Your thinking, ron. This is a progressive audience, 4 out of 5 are saying, yeah, get those bad guys. Theyre turncoats. If theyre americans, theyre not one of us, theyre one of them now. Your thoughts. I think most americans agree if there are individuals, even americans, that are imminently planning to cause destruction and death in the United States, that we ought to do something about it. We ought to interdict. The question though it seems to me is not whether we should do this at all but on whose sayso do we do it . Cynthia, you pick up on this. Suppose you get a call in the middle of the night or with a few hours notice, weve got a target, a highvalue target in yemen. We believe this person is about to conduct an operation against one of our ships in the gulf. We got to stop them. Weve got the technology, weve got them in sights. Do we do it . The judge is asked yes or no. How does he become chris how does he stop this and say i of my own volition say tough nuts, im not going to do it. Let the guy do his thing . I dont envision that thats the way e system would work. The people who are placed on these kill lists are on there for at least days, if not weeks or months, before the Drone Operators decide that this is the moment where we have the right intelligence to act on taking them out. So why not present that evidence to an independent review body at the moment you believe you have enough evidence to say, these people represent such a danger to the United States they need to be killed. I think yesterday john brennan was grilled about various aspects of this program, including the rights of americans who might be on the kill list. Take a look at how he answered a question on that from senator ron wyden of oregon. Lets listen. Do you believe that the president should provide an individual american with the opportunity to surrender before killing him . Any american who joins al qaeda will know full well that they have joined an organization that is at war with the United States and that has killed thousands upon thousands of individuals, many, many of them who are americans. I guess this goes back to, ron, to another tricky question. Wed like to believe that being born in the United States under the 14th amendment entitles you to all the rights all three of us have. Youre entitled to full rights of american citizenship. At what point do you yield that up in any kind of moral way you think youre comfortable with . When do you yield it up . I think if you put on the uniform, so to speak, of another team and are looking to kill americans and attack the United States of america, that youve crossed a line and now, you know, youre going what about domestic terrorists in this country who tried to blow up and have blown up public facilities because theyre enemies of the United States government at least. The way they look at it. This raises a very interesting question when we talk about drones. If the excuse for using drones is imminent threat to american lives, which seems to be the rationale, what if that threat is coming from within the United States . There is another point thats worth making here. The french philosopher Jeanpaul Sartre once said when you choose for yourself, you choose for all mankind. If we are okay sending drones over other countries to kill american citizens or other individuals without that countrys permission, we have to acknowledge then that when this technology spreads to other countries, and it will, its not that sophisticated, that were okay then with other governments doing the same thing in other countries, and where does that lead exactly . On the same program, both of you, we have heard the phrase raison detre, and we have heard a reference to Jeanpaul Sartre. Im very proud of our program tonight. Im going into my exostential world tonight. Thank you very much, ron reagan. Thank you. Have a nice weekend. Up next, Texas Governor rick perry escalates that fight, kind of a tussle, with californias jerry brown. Im betting on brown in this one. And this is hardball, the place for politics. We are gatho celebrate the union of tim and laura. Its amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their Car Insurance by switching to geico. They may even make you their best man. May i have the rings please . Ah, helzberg diamonds. Nice choice, mate. And now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. Oh dear. Geico. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more on Car Insurance. So we created the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. A collection of innovations designed around a bed with dualair technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs each of your bodies. Our sleep professionals will help you find your sleep number setting. Exclusively at a sleep number store. Sleep number. Comfort. Individualized. At the ultimate sleep number event, queen mattresses start at just 599. And save 50 on our innovative limited edition bed. Or treat gas with these after you get it. Now thats like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. Oh, somebody out theres saying, now i get it take beano before and therell be no gas. You ready . [ female announcer ] second kid by their second kid, every mom is an expert and more likely to choose luvs. After thousands of diaper changes, they know what works. Luvs lock away wetness better than huggies for a fraction of the cost live, learn, get luvs. Now to the siside show. Some added heat on perry versus jerry today. Earlier this week i told you about the tussle between the governors of our two biggest states, texas and california. Rick perry began running a radio ad out in california trying to lure Business Owners to texas, and jerry brown was unmoved by the fivefigure ad buy or as he put it its not a burp. Its barely a fart. Thank you. Anyway, turns out perry isnt just sticking to the airwaves. Next week he will be showing up himself in california, cities like San Francisco and los angeles, to keep up the move to texas gimmick. Anyway, a cartoonist for the Sacramento Bee is out with a pretend pitch. From perry, we got three advantages over california. First, we got your low taxes. Second, we got your low wages, and i cant remember the third. To which the other guy responds, the wide open spaces in your head. Anyway, next, its no secret that Chris Christie and newark mayor cory booker arent exactly best friends. I didnt know that. Christie kicked off the week joking about his weight with david letterman. Soon after he was telling a former white house physician to shut up for expressing concern over his health and his weight. Anyway, guess what the project project booker Just Announced yesterday . His new partnership with Weight Watchers to help combat obesity up in newark. Well, surely this one was in the works for a while, but strange about the talk and the timing. By the way, it seems like christie is still in attack mode over the comments from that physician. Yesterday dr. Connie mariano recounted the phone call she got from the governor. It was essentially the tone of the press conference but louder. Pretty much yelled the whole time. Uhhuh. If this is the way you handle stress, is this president ial . Have to think about that. Is this a president ial way to behave . Come on. Theres a political commentary from the doctor. Apparently calling her a hack at the press conference was not enough. Thats hardball for now. Coming up, your business with j. J. Ramberg. From jammin jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. See whats new from campbells. Its amazing what soup can do. See whats new from campbells. You know, from our 4,000 television commercials. Yep, there i am with flo. 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