we are going to start seeing soon. this subpoena is part of it. it's part of the larger precedent setting of congress' ability to have oversight. broadly speaking for the january 6th committee, they are getting information. it's not like they're sitting in a black hole of nothing. they're just not having access to what steve bannon has, which is important because we know he was in touch with the former president. at the same time, there are other people who were subpoenaed who also were. that's just as important as well. >> barbara mcwade is back with us. i'm thinking back to the conversation we were having about precedent here but also this idea that even if bannon is found in contempt and even if he's prosecuted and in fact even if he's convicted, my understanding is none of those things can compel him to speak if he wants to do his time and say nothing regardless. how important is the criminal component of this or congress following through in encouraging or scaring other potential witnesses into making sure they