2024 election, and possibly democracy itself? is that just a story that we journalists tell ourselves? >> it's for real. it's for real this time. and for the exactly the reason that you say. 2022 is a dress rehearsal for 2025. if the american people -- if they don't get it right this time, then 2024 is going to be exponentially worse. we have election deniers up and it down the ballot for all sorts of offices. there could be an election denier as governor of arizona, or maybe even governor of new york. and then you go on down from there. that's why i say the 2022 is over 2024. >> and you look at the secretary of state races. >> you never cared about anything! >> i don't think we ever knew -- >> i never knew the name of one across this country, and now we talk about them, and to them. >> and to your point, it reminds us that the election is different. if you are coming down to earth