of his base intact and made it difficult for his opponents to get a foothold. we have to wait and see what happens in iowa and new hampshire. he thinks he won both elections that he was in, including the one he claims falsely was fraudulent. he's doubling down, tripling down and surrounding himself with people who are in for it and letting the others fall away. so far it keeps him at the top of the polls. we'll see how long that lasts. >> kimberly, you referred to people who may not be trump supporters, but have a view of the court proceedings as a blur or whether it's real or whether it's politics as usual. the counterpoint to that is not only whether or not there are guilty verdicts, defendant trump is presumed innocent, but what we're learning along the way. we learned that trump's lawyer