president's side and the banks say, sure, that's what the value is. let's do our own valuations, but we'll give him the money because he's a big whale. >> you're referring to the classic, don't hate the player, hate the game defense? >> yeah, there's something to that. i think that, look, there's no hard and fast formula. he could say, you know, let's take the formula that says, take the interest rate they would have gotten had they been honest in their disclosures and give the delta, pay the difference between the application of that interest rate and what they ultimately got on the inflated financials. there's a kind of hard and fast formula out there for him to use. that wouldn't take him sky high, but i think that viscerally you have to say, it's hard to apply