the judge said that trump's words show that he and the proud boys and oath keepers, quote, pursued the same goal and that trump would have known his words were understood as a, quote, call to action. and that his response to the violence made it all the more plausible that he was involved in a, quote, tacit agreement with the rioters. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquade and charlie sykes, who is still here. barb, this opinion is a barn burner. i could quote from it, maybe i will, but first i want to ask you what you make of it and why it's important. >> well, legally, john, the reason it's important is it says that these lawsuits can go forward. ordinarily, a president is able to use immunity to get out from under civil lawsuits. anything he does within the scope of his presidency is covered by immunity but the courts say he wasn't acting as president. he was acting as a disgruntled candidate and for that reason, all that behavior may be the