clyburn on this, all right? my question for you is based on that, that sense of moral urgency and historical context, you said at the beginning you want to see a plan. what do you suggest that joe biden do about joe manchin and kyrsten sinema other than what jim clyburn did, which is call them out, rightfully so? if it doesn't change their mind, what should the white house do to force their hand in some way to get this filibuster rule changed? >> so we all agree that bipartisanship isn't a virtue in and of itself. it's not more important than protecting our democracy. i haven't given up on the fact that there isn't a single patriot in the republican caucus. so there may be an opportunity there, if there's something that someone wants. if we carve out the filibuster and it's a straight up and down vote, that it is possible that there is one, just one patriot in the entire gop criminal