with him to his defense, but as politico reports today, pence's allies long believe trump played a role in the strategy and indicated trump was frustrated the justice department intervened to defend his vice-president against gohmert's suit, but unknown how involved he was in trump's legal strategy. representative jamie raskin called it a significant detail in that it was part of a plan to isolate and coerce pence. joining our conversation, carol lennig, author of the book "i alone can fix it," georgetown law professor, both nbc contributors. so carol leonnig, when i read this, and i remember covering the gohmert suit at the time and i think there was a lincoln project ad that a lot of folks thought put it on trump's radar