there's probably more going on within nato and the interpol ticks of nato than ever before. so it's a peril ess time. >> we used to sort of, you know, they were low-impact trips. now, we have to watch them like a hawk because anything can happen with donald trump. >> we're waiting for that precisely because these impeachment hearings are going on. and he might want to do and i don't even know what it is to distract us from that. so it's always a worry that we know he wants to deep six nato anyway. and how is it that he's going to do it that he undermines the entire alliance? and and we just have to say it's not normal to want to deep six nato. >> no. this is the fundamental foundational alliance of, you know, the post-war world. and this is where donald trump is not normal. is his disdain for our allies and his fascination with our enemies. is just something that i think historians are going to puzzle over for a long time. >> a long time. and i remember it was the first year that hr mcmaster and others were trying to force that