arbery. he was convicted of the top charge of malice murder. could he receive a harsher sentence than the other two defendants? >> yes, craig, absolutely. and that's what i'm expecting to see at the end of the day. in terms of the three defendants and what we will likely hear from the judge, travis mcmichael has the greatest exposure, and so i expect he ultimately will be the one who has the harshest sentence. it may not be that all three end up getting probation, but i would believe that of all three of them, travis mcmichael seems to be the least likely to walk away from this, to ever see the light of day as a free man ever again. >> charles, one of the things that hasn't been lost on me since all of this started, i mean, here's a trial that if it were left to a local prosecutors initially, this is a trial that never would have happened. these are sentences that never would have been handed down. what -- what's your take away