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mulvaney heard about these investigations into burisma and the 2016 election, is that right? >> i don't know what mr. mulvaney heard or didn't hear. i think there's been a huge amount of exaggeration over my contact with mr. mulvaney. it was actually quiteul limited. >> well, he certainly didn't indicate -- he certainly indicated a familiarity with what you were talking about in this july 19th email, is that right? >> right, because i think mr. mulvaney was in the may 23rd briefingrd with president trump. i don't remember, because there were people sitting behind us when we were sitting in front of president trump's wdesk. >> you've said you don't have a recollection of saying -- referencing mulvaney in the july 10th meeting in ambassador bolton's office, is that right? >> i don't recall. >> so when both fiona hill and

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