interests in trying to, you know, basically revive this long-debunked theory about the biden scandal in the ukraine which many people looked into and there's nothing there. and that's about the president's personal interests. and the giuliani channel is basically saying, let's hold up this military assistance. so you have what giuliani is doing directly contradicting official american policy. it makes it very hard to run a railroad and it makes it very hard to achieve what's in america's interests. >> ambassador pifer, thank you very much, ambassador jacobson as well. here is the president speaking on the white house lawn earlier today. >> let me tell you something. the level of unfairness for a perfect conversation with the president of ukraine, this was a perfect conversation, and frankly, had they known what the conversation was, they wouldn't have even wasted everybody's time. but this was a perfect conversation with the president of ukraine. president of ukraine and his