but, this is all familiar propaganda territory. this is the go-to story that russian propaganda has told about their armies, and crimes, for nearly a decade now. there's always a journalist, and foreign member of ukraine parliament, a cofounder of the public journalism lab, and a journalist, and sociologist. she was living, and working, in keith. having since evacuated to germany, and they both join me now. i know you both worked on this exact issue for a while. let me start with you. it does seem like this counter narrative, really, ramped up today. president zelenskyy started to talk about it today, directly, that the kind of russian propaganda had roared to life. what do you make of that? >> well, unfortunately, russian propaganda is super efficient, and was efficient during the last 20 years. now, we see that the russian people, the russian population, and putin support, is the best evidence.