overly psychological explanation for the facts that we have, but that these kind of -- these peer effects matter, the people you talk to matter. when you go and consult them, their integrity and their just sort of sense of the rule of law end up being very important, which is that dan quayle and michael ludding say are you out of your mind? you can't do that. >> right, and there were many trump appointed federal judges who said the same thing, and state judges, republican judges. but you know, when you replace brad raffensperger with jody hies, then what? are we going to accept the results of an election when the person running the election is someone who embraces the big lie that the election was stolen? i mean, what's this going to do to legitimacy if trump actually wins the election if he runs again? >> this is -- that last question is a really underconsidered one, too, because it's a two-way