failure were ignored, or the flu from the top. we have seen in the testament that it insidiously persistence of vaccine refusal, and the grandstanding by current politicians. we are now in a situation where even after they have vaccines became widely available, around the, spring around april. we still lost more than 180,000 people, according to nbc's report. so what does that say? about where we are? mike lewis, the author of the book i just mentioned, called the pandemic and the pandemic, which idolizes the failures of the cdc and the trump administration to contain the coronavirus, joins me, now it's great to have in the studio. >> great to see you. chris >> great to see you. >> good to see you face-to-face. >> here's my big question for you. the book analyze is the structure filling up the american public health. from the top to the bottom. and it's not just trump. there's a bunch of other stuff. and then we got to a point where a lot of that stuff on the vaccine, proliferation, structurally got pretty fixed. logistically we are getting it out. and then we hit up against a