striking enough to gates that he both recalls it and tells investigators and now the jury. >> yeah. it was sort of a dramatic reveal in gates' testimony and wasn't the only one. gates also said just before that pal manafort, the chairman of the campaign asked gates to keep in touch with stone and manafort told gates he was briefing trump on what he was learning about wikileaks. so there's a bunch of evidence that shows that trump despite what he says knew a lot about what wikileaks was doing, and that their entire campaign was paying close attention to what stone was saying. >> so here's the question -- the mystery at the heart of this for me. it does seem like what i've seen in the testimony that stone's in some trouble, in the case that he actually lied to the congressional testimony, that he tried to obstruct this investigation. but what doesn't seem clear is the mystery of did stone have some actual secret knowledge? did he have some back door? was he just a bs artist who is