Halt. And he can do it using a Senate Protocol that allows for any single senator to block any nomination by placing a hold on it. But thats how Lindsey Graham is able to block all nominees, not why. To understand why graham wants to bring government to a halt, you have to meet Lindsey Grahams primary challenger, South Carolina state senator lee bright. Patrick henry said give me liberty or give me death. Weve got folks in our country thats getting above 50 that say give me liberty or give me a card. Lindsey graham, like john boehner and the House Republicans before him, is threatening to essentially shut down part of the government so he can defend himself from a tea party backlash. Recent polling found only 53 of South Carolina republicans have a favorable view of graham. For some context, grahams unfavorables in the state are 30 points higher than its fellow Senate Republican tim scott. Needing to turn around his numbers, graham is turning back to benghazi. Were just beginning on benghazi. And to the families, were not going to let this go. Lindsey graham is just doing what the modern gop does best, using political feeder to placate the base and leaving the American People with the damage. Talk about benghazi. Graham is going to block important, substantive nominations so he can win his primary. Did you want someone to run the federal reserve, the worlds most important economic body . Well, sorry, benghazi. I havent forgotten about benghazi. Did you want someone to run the department of Homeland Security . That cant happen because benghazi. What happened in benghazi. Did you want an undersecretary for Nuclear Security . We havent heard from one person in benghazi. Benghazi. Benghazi. Benghazi. Benghazi. You mentioned benghazi. Yeah. Americas news may not be secure, but at least Lindsey Graham will be reelected. This Administration Needs to be held accountable for benghazi a story of americans abandoned by their government at a time they needed their government the most. Joining me now, david brock, founder of media matters for america, and author of the newly released ebook called the benghazi hoax. And david, take me through the almost tultemic resonance that benghazi and the deaths of those four americans in that american consulate that night has taken on among the right. Well, sure. So, in this book, we outline 15 what we call hoaxes. And i think today, in your leadin, we saw the 16th. You know, behind every bully is a coward, and Lindsey Graham made a big deal of making friends with Hillary Clinton earlier in his days in the senate. Then he switched course on benghazi and basically accused her of having blood on his hands, and what changed there . Why is he playing politics with National Security is the primary challenge he has from the tea party. The Tea Party Challenger referred to him as a Community Organizers for the Muslim Brotherhood. And the truth is, and we try to get to facts in the book wait a second, he actually called him the Community Organizer for the Muslim Brotherhood . Thats right, so this is posturing. There are benghazi truthers at all levels of the Republican Party, starting with dick cheney, who went on talk radio last week and lied about secretary clintons role in this to the nut who heckled her last week. So, Lindsey Graham is looking at the benghazi truthers who are primary voters in South Carolina. And the fact is, the people he wants to hear from, chris, they were interviewed by the fbi, they were interviewed by the state Department Accountability review board. Those transcripts are available to the senate. And Lindsey Graham even met with some of them. So, this is like your 16th hoax. There was a report. I think part of the reason why Lindsey Graham timed this announcement to this morning where he went on fox friends and made this big deal about it, and im going to talk about what this means. I mean, hes putting a hold on all the nominees. He will actually block people from getting a confirmation, et cetera. There was a report on 60 minutes last night i want to play you an excerpt of, because i think the conservatives i read seem very excited that this is going to bring back this issue. Take a listen. Its now well established that the americans were attacked by al qaeda in a wellplanned assault. Five months before that night, morgan jones first arrived in benghazi. But on his first drive through benghazi, he noticed the black flags of al qaeda flying openly in the streets, and he grew concerned about the guard force as soon as he pulled up to the u. S. Compound. There was nobody there that we could see. Then we realized they were all inside drinking tea, laughing and joking. What was your reaction to the 60 minutes spot, david . Well, look, i think that they pose lingering questions about benghazi. And the truth is, there were 157 attacks on u. S. Diplomatic facilities since 1998. Most of those were under george w. Bush. Weve had 18 congressional hearings and 25,000 administration documents produced, no evidence of wrongdoing by the president , by secretary clinton. Even republican senator bob corker said months ago, we know what happened in benghazi. Hes satisfied that he knows it. So, in this report, i mean, ill Say Something about two of the sources in the report. One of them, gregory hicks, was presented as a socalled whistleblower by darrell issa, and you know, he previously lied and said that there was a military standdown order in benghazi. That never happened, didnt stop fox news from airing 85 prime time segments saying there was one, but all the testimony from the military officials said that never happened. And the other witness appears to be some type of british mercenary who, apparently, in conversations with fox news, asked for money to talk. And so, you know, fox news even drew a line there, but it was good enough for cbs. David brock from media matters, thank you very much for your time. Thanks. Joining me, former governor of minnesota and former president ial candidate, republican tim blunty, now with the services roundtable, represents Financial Services companies. The last thing you did in politics was attempt to navigate the mind field of a republican primary, a National Republican primary, it should be noted in running for president. Put yourself in Lindsey Grahams shoes. There are drern things he cannot back away from. He is one of the architects of the comprehensive Immigration Reform bill. He is on the record being quite angry at ted cruz and his ilk for the government shutdown. If you are him, if you are Lindsey Graham, how do you go out and win that primary in South Carolina . Well, chris, good evening. And first of all, before we talk about the primary in South Carolina, lets just make sure we understand Lindsey Graham and his motives. Ive known lindsey for years. Hes a member of the United States armed services. Hes been involved in security and military matters with passion and sincerity for many, many years. And to say, you know, his concern about benghazi is somehow a concoction around the South Carolina primary, first of all, isnt true. It isnt the Lindsey Graham i know, and i dont think anybody who really knows him would say its lacking in sincerity. And number two, if you were going to think about benghazi as a primary issue, you know, most of the tea party or many of them, libertarians or tea party types, are noninterventionists. Lindsey tends to be interventionist right, which is why its a politically expeditious issue for precisely that reason. On to the first point irks dont think he is faking that he is concerned about benghazi. Im not saying that. I dont doubt his intentions. But of course, the trick in politics is a matter of emphasis. There are a whole lot of issues that Lindsey Graham did not get up before the nation today and say that he would hold every single president ial nomination hostage to other than benghazi, right . So, the choice that a politician decides to emphasis at certain point are partly the product of the circumstances theyre involved in. But your premise is, look, this is a concoction in precipitation for a primary fight and hopefully a primary victory, in lindseys case, but this ignores a decade or more of committed history on exactly these kinds of issues taking essentially same or similar positions that Lindsey Graham has put forward. And to assign political motive to that and say its insincere and inconsistent with his past record doesnt withstand scrutiny. By the way, chris, less than a half hour ago on your network, not fox, on Msnbc Brandon Webb was on Chris Matthews show, yes, absolutely. I watched the interview. In fact, i know brandon quite well. Raising, though, chris, legitimate questions about the issue. Yes, look, right. So, the point, though, is, show me the other issues that Lindsey Graham had said he is going to put a hold on every single president ial nominee, including the federal reserve, which i imagine your clients in the Financial Services roundtable cant be crazy about, any other issue where he is going to put a hold on every nominee other than this one issue. Well, i dont know of any others that hes done that, but i do believe he feels strongly about this. And just because he threatens to put a hold, or in fact, puts a hold on certain nominees, doesnt go to the issue of how long he will keep the hold on or under what circumstances he might release them. Look, hes frustrated. He thinks this is an important issue. It has a lot of people on both sides of the aisle raising questions. Usually when theres a debate like this, a good way to open, you know to address it is just open it up to the facts. So, thats all hes trying to do. And again, i dont think its insincere, and its consistent with a decadelong service on these issues. Do you honestly think honest question do you think a politician faced with the situation Lindsey Grahams in, which presumably, he wants to win reelection, that there is nothing about his behavior that changes because of a primary challenge to his right . Well, i cant speak to how he thinks each day because i dont talk to him each day no, but a republican take a republican member, a standard republican member of the senate or the house of representatives, are you telling me that the threat of a primary challenge has no effect whatsoever on their Political Behavior . Well, if the standard, though to answer that question is are you willing to engage in abnormal procedural activity in the United States congress, then every one of them or nearly every one of them would be guilty of that charge. You know, the senate hasnt passed a budget in nine years. They passed financial matters or budgetary matters on extraordinary procedural maneuvers. So, if your standards going to be invoking or ignoring procedures in an abnormal way, then they all have dirty hands. Well, i agree with you that the abnormal has become normal. Former governor tim pawlenty, appreciate your time. Thank you. John judas with the new republic where he just wrote the cover story on the future of the tea party. John, i want to begin with a Little Senate hate, because i think its something you and i see eye to eye on. Can we get rid of the hold . Why is it the case that any member of the senate can singlehandedly block a nominee by not giving unanimous consent . Its not in the constitution. Its a part of the tradition of the senate. So is the filibuster. I think that those kind of measures make it very hard for our democracy to function. And not only that, right, there is a way in which in the past, those have been bound by a certain kind of institutional norms, traditions, et cetera, that we have gotten out past recently, particularly from the Republican Party . In the past, for instance, filibusters were extraordinarily rare. What i remember from my childhood was over civil rights. That was the main issue. But they happen once in a decade, maybe. But in the last 20 years, theyve happened repeatedly, and its become so that you cant pass a bill without 60 votes. Thats an extraordinary thing, and i think that thats happened largely because of a change in the Republican Party which has polarized the parties in washington and made it very hard for the government to function. Just little bit of data here. So, were about to enter, i think, into a protracted battle over a nominee to the d. C. Circuit appellate court, which is considered the sort of most Important Court in the land beneath the supreme court. And in terms of nominees, clinton had 77 of his judicial nominees confirmed at this point of his presidency, bush 92 and barack obama coming in third at 75 . And heres a great upside down example of what this obstruction looks like. You have a situation now in which senator Chuck Grassley is basically saying that president obama, in trying to appoint a nominee to fill a vacate seat on that court is engaged in courtpacking. Are we officially through the Looking Glass . Well, i think we are in a period where its going to be very hard for the government to function, and really, youre going to have to see a change in the parties. In california, the solution turned out to be the democrats getting the kind of majority where they could pass things without worrying about the filibusters or blocking. So, maybe thats the solution. Yes, you just wrote a piece in which you basically think the path out of the wilderness from this sort of deadlock of destruction and obstruction and dysfunction is basically just winning all the way around. You point to california, the only way out of this is just overwhelming maximum majorities, but thats not plausible nationwide, is it . Well, theres two paths. Thats one path. I think its very hard to imagine that, especially because of the house of representatives. I think you could imagine the senate, as happened in 2008, getting a vetoproof majority or 60 votes, which are necessary to get past the filibuster. The other possibility is for the republicans to become more of a centrist party. That also might happen, and it might happen in the wake of the shutdown and the reaction of the Business Community to what occurred and to the danger, really, that the republican right poses to the country. So, thats the other possibility, that youll see a kind of a change where the people who are now dealing with the obama people, people like senator corker, senator ayotte, will become the norm, and the ted cruzes will become marginalized. In order for that to happen, of course, and this gets back to the point i was just making with tim pawlenty, there has to be a shift in political incentives so that Lindsey Graham and others face people essentially to their left in primaries, rather than a man like lee bright, who says tyranny is what barack obama, harry reid and the rest of the liberals are trying to force upon our land. John judis from the new republic, thank you for your time. Thank you. Coming up we need a responsible, permanent solution to the problem of those who are here illegally. But first, we must follow through on the broken promises of the past to secure our borders and enforce our laws. During this address that republican senator marco rubio famously took that famous sip of water, which inspired our continuing series i see you, marco rubio, to retract his constantly evolving position on Immigration Reform. The latest twist. Wed love to hear from you on twitter and facebook. The obama care fearmongering continues. Now its sharply focused on the initial implementation of the Affordable Care act. Tonights question whats the latest myth a rightwing buddy has told you about the healthcare. Gov site or obama care. Ill share your replies later on the show. Stay tuned. The secret is out. Hydration is in. [ female announcer ] only aveeno daily moisturizing lotion has an active naturals oat formula that creates a moisture reserve so skin can replenish itself. Aveeno® naturally beautiful results. [ male announcer ] rocky had no idea why dawn was gone for so long. But hed wait for her forever and would always be there with the biggest welcome home. For a love this strong, dawn only feeds him iams. Compared to other leading brands, it has 50 more animal protein. To help keep rockys body as strong as a love that never fades. Iams. Keep love strong. Now you can keep love fun with new shakeables meaty treats. Big news from marco rubio today. In the latest installment of our recurring series, i see you, marco rubio. For a while now, weve had our eyes on marco rubio, and his backandforth on Immigration Reform, waiting for the morally bankrupt ending to the saga of rubio trying to please the partys donor class while not alienaing primary voters. Heres a recap. Is there something that happens in this debate, the amendment process, additional opposition from conservatives, that causes you to step back and say i can no longer support this compromise agreement . I dont anticipate that. I think its a very good piece of legislation, a very good law. Will you yourself support the bill that emerged from judiciary, senator rubio . Well, i think if those amendments dont pass, i think weve got a bill that isnt going to become law and i think were wasting our time, so the answer is no. This is hurting america. This should be about helping the United States, and if nothing passes, then this disaster we have now, thats whats going to stay in place. There are many things on immigration that we can agree on, and i think we should move on those and make progress on those issues, and there are a handful that we have no consensus on in this country yet, and those issues may have to be, you know, delayed at some point until we can reach a consensus on how to approach them. Okay, so, today comes news that rubio is basically opposing the passage of comprehensive Immigration Reform in the house. Instead, hes now calling on his colleagues in the house to pass a budget piecemeal bills, the house gops current favorite strategy for just killing reform outright. The only approach that has a realistic chance of success is to focus on those aspects of reform on which there is consensus through a series of individual bills said a rubio spokesman. Otherwise, this latest effort to make progress will meet the same fate as previous efforts, failure. Now only did he trumpet the piecemeal approach, he instructed the house not to pass anything that can go into Conference Committee with the senates bill. The senate, of course, passed with great fanfare a bipartisan bill that rubios quite familiar with because he helped write it. Here in america, generations of unfulfilled dreams will finally come to pass, and thats why i support this reform, not just because i believe in immigrants, but because i believe in america even more. I like that speech, but just to be clear here, rubio today came out against that speech, came out against his own bill and also came out against even the possibility of the house passing a bill that could ever be merged with his own bill. If youve been following this saga, you probably knew this was coming. And the worst part, this is the worst part, is that while it might tangibly hurt the chances for reform and the 11 Million People living in limbo, it will do nothing for rubios own political fortunes. It is purposeless destruction at this point. Hes already rightly taken a political hit for crafting and promoting the gang of eight bill. Now hes going to take another hit, understandably, for his inconsistency, or as one of the republicans who plans to lobby for Immigration Reform in washington tomorrow told msnbc finding a politician whos one on the i was for it before i was against it tragedy. To use the recurring metaphor, todays news is the part of the episode where rubio tries to put the bottle back on the table after having taken a sip. The problem is that everyone saw what he did. Joining me now is morella praeli with the united we dream network. As an activist, you have worked in opposition to and with marco rubio. Youve met with him. Youve come on our show before, defended him and his integrity and good faith. How are you feeling in reaction to the news today . I guess the first words that come to mind, chris, are irresponse library and cowardly. Not how im feeling, but really the perspective we currently hold of senator rubio after his backandforth on immigration. I mean, talk about working on something for months, coming to an agreement, taking a vote for it, and then completely saying no, House Republicans, you should just ignore this and move in a different direction. The other irony of today is that the same day that marco rubio did this, and its getting a fair april press, representative jeff den yam of california becomes the first republican to sign on with 185 democrats to cosponsor a house plan to adopt most of the senates bill. Im the first republican. I expect more to come on board. Theyve told me were going to have this issue on the floor by the end of the year. Take those two developments into condition, marco rubio, jeff denham. Where are we on this right now . I think during the shutdown, there wasnt a lot of progress in congress on Immigration Reform. Our movement has been very loud from day one and continue to do so through august recess and through the shutdown. We continue to come out and press members of congress to really get behind an Immigration Reform bill that really honors the dignity of our people, and that means that it would have to include a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million. Okay, but heres the problem. Im sorry to cut you off, but heres the problem. That argument, which i find very persuasive, why is that going to be persuasive to members of the House Republican caucus who are looking at the same political incentives marco rubio is . You have members who have come out for citizenship. We have the votes that we need. And if it were not for what we call the hasser excuse, we would have a vote on either the senate bill or a modified version, hr15 right now. Thats the senate bill, plus bipartisan policy that was voted out of committee in the house that addresses the Border Security issue. So you know, i think we have people like representative denham coming out in support for this bill. We have other folks. We now have 29 House Republicans who have come out for citizenship. This weekend, representative franks from arizona, from the 8th congressional district, also came out for pathway to citizenship. So, while you have some Forward Movement in the house, you know, as they figure out procedurally how they want to move forward with Immigration Reform, you have people like senator rubio coming out trying to defeat a measure he worked on trying to move forward. And to me, thats not leadership. I also dont want us to be overly focused on him, because i think the people who really matter right now at this point in the debate are House Republican leadership, and that means Speaker Boehner has to really address this issue. Do you think that you have the votes . You just said that you think you have the votes. If john boehner we did a segment on this last week, where he basically said this is the same dynamic as the shutdown, which is, the analogy is, you know, the whole time john boehner could have ended the shutdown like that, brought a clean cr to the floor it passes with all the democrats and enough republicans. Do you think that dynamic is in play right now on some version of the senate bill . Yes. I think that if it were not for the haster excuse, right . This rule thats not really a rule in the house, we would be able to have a vote on this bill now. We have 185 democrats who have signed on to hr15, to the Immigration Reform bill in the house that has a pathway to citizenship, that addresses the Border Security issues, et cetera, and i think that we can probably see 195 to 200 democrats on that bill. We now have 29 republicans in the house who have come out. Thats over 218 votes. Right. In the house. I want to play something for you that senator john mccain actually said about the politics of this issue this morning at a breakfast in chicago. Take a listen. Lets say we do pass it. It will not gain us a single republican voter, but what it will do for the Republican Party is it will allow us to compete for the hispanic vote. It will give us a Playing Field where we can argue for lower taxes, less regulation, smaller government, strong military, et cetera. But if we dont pass it, we will not compete for the hispanic vote. If we dont pass it, we will not compete for the hispanic vote. Do you think hes right . Yeah, i think hes absolutely right, and i actually would make an argument for not only the hispanic vote but also for independent voters, right . So, Immigration Reform and the current moral crisis that exists in our community because, you know, 1,100 people are getting deported every day that president obama doesnt halt the deportations and every day the House Republicans dont act on this bill. So, i think americans have tuned in to that. I think americans understand the crisis that our community is faced with every day, and they tie that to the inaction. I mean, but republicans have now this track where they have to first fail at something to then realize that its political suicide for them to continue on that destructive path. Thats a good point, and that is exactly the dynamic that had to happen with the shutdown, and hopefully, i hope that youre right, that enough failure will convince john boehner to do the thing he did with the shutdown, the thing he did with sandy recovery, which is bring it to a vote. Lorella praeli from the united dream network, thank you so much. The story in california where hundreds of thousands of middle class americans are finding sticker shock. The president has some credibility problems, too, because he goes out and says these things that have right from the getgo been untrue, and he knew they were untrue. That was karl rove on fox news earlier today doing his best to contribute to the not quite all the Information Campaign on obama care, and im going to explain, coming up. Do you remember that weird moment at the g8 summit in 2006 when president bush gave an unsolicited shoulder massage to german chancellor Angela Merkel . It was one of the more bizarre moments of the bush presidency, a moment that was pretty much seared into my brain. And i cannot be the only person in america who immediately thought back to that moment when i heard some of the most recent revelations about nsa surveillance. Thanks to edward snowden, we now know the nsa monitored the phone conversations of 35 world leaders. That includes merkel, who is object sensibly a u. S. Ally. Merkel was reportedly livid about the surveillance and called president obama to register her displeasure. But the spying may have begun as far back as 2002, the early days of the Bush Administration, before merkel even became chancellor. And that timeline makes this clip from 2006 even creepier i cant help but wonder if bush had gotten a tip from the nsa about how merkel mentioned on the phone she enjoyed the occasional back rub. Heres the craziest part about this whole thing, its not that we were tapping the german chancellors phones, which is not necessarily that surprising, even though it involved an ally, it is that, apparently, president obama did not know we were doing it, according to a report from the wall street journal out today. The spying on merkel was part of the massive surveillance operation put in place by president george w. Bush after the september 11th attacks, which members of the Bush Administration continue to defend to this day. We do have a fantastic intelligence capability worldwide against all kinds of potential issues and concerns. We are vulnerable, as was shown on 9 11, and you never know what youre going to need when you need it. And the fact is, we do collect a lot of intelligence, and without speaking about any particular target or group of targets, that intelligence capability is enormously important to the United States. Of all the dangers that come with this really massive, sprawling surveillance state that dick cheney and george w. Bush helped construct, the erosion of personal privacy, the damaged diplomatic relations, the biggest may be this. The apparatus itself is so big, it cannot be adequately overseen by the person who is dramatically accountable for managing it. The wall street journal reported, the president went nearly five years without learning u. S. Spies were bugging the phones of world leaders. He only discovered the spying due to an internal review that started this summer. Officials said decisions like this, to, you know, for instance, spy on world leaders, are made at the agency level. Perhaps the best way to think about the nsa is the way we think about the banks that got us into the financial crisis. They are institutions that are so massive and complex, they cannot actually be managed. Their very existence in their current state threatens epic destruction when inevitable human error occurs. Thats where weve gotten with our surveillance state. It has to shrink or we will eventually find ourselves living through the surveillance version of the great crash. Perhaps thats what we are seeing right now. Have you heard that hundreds of thousands of people are losing their Health Care Coverage because of obama care . Well, thats not really the whole story. Were going to bring in an editor at Consumer Reports to separate myth from fact, so tell your favorite rightwing uncle to watch, because its next. First, the three awesomest things on the internet today. We begin with an answer to a question that probably shouldnt need to keep asking. Actress Julianne Hough made a name for herself on dancing with the stars but enjoys all kinds of shows, including orange is the new black. Reportedly, she dressed in a Halloween Costume as one of the shows africanamerican characters. As you can imagine, her blackface was not well received. Hough was quick to apologize on twitter for the costume, but i started thinking about a way to prevent these incidents in the future. I asked on twitter, can someone make a microsite at shouldidressinblackface. Com with no as the only text on the landing face . And twitter user Leah Doolittle relied buying the name asap. I encourage everyone to visit the site and take in its subtle message. And while im at it, id like to wish for some other things that will be granted by the magic twitter pixies singlepayer and one . The second awesomest thing on the internet today, the band is back on the field. Last week, the ohio state marching band received kudos for their tribute to michael jackson, complete with the moonwalk. For this week, they had to top itself and they did with a tribute to multiple blockbuster hollywood movies. Theres clark kent entering a phone booth only to emerge as superman with cape flowing behind him as he stops a building from falling down. Seriously. There was harry potter riding a broom as he chased down the golden snitch. Nice form. And although we only have a few seconds, we thought wed show you this Jurassic Park dinosaur devouring an unlucky victim. Delicious pity the team that has to follow that halftime show. Might as well stay in the locker room. And the third awesomest thing on the internet today. You know what they say about imitation, its the greatest form of flattery and Edward Norton hosted saturday night live. Norton is becoming a wes anderson regular. In our wildest imaginations, we never thought wed see him in Something Like this, a trailer for a new horror movie as if directed by wes anderson with all the whimsy and flights of fancy weve come to love. Norton makes a spoton owen wilson who is trying to protect his family from quirky knifewielding psychopaths at his door. The story of one determined father hey, kids, come on, lets go to the panic room. And his two precocious children. We have to protect ourselves or well die. Quick, lets gather all our weapons. Rock, hammer, swiss army knife, sling shot, firecracker, ship in a bottle, protractor, picture, assault rifle, little flack. The sketches were all amazing, Production Design was off the charts, all of which begs one question, when are they actually making this movie and can the answer be immediately . You can find all the links for tonights click 3 on our website, allinwithchris. Com. Well be right back. Lifes an adventure when youre with her. And it always has been. But your erectile dysfunction it could be a question of blood flow. Cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moments right. You can be more confident in your ability to be ready. And the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid longterm injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30tablet free trial. In california, Kaiser Permanente terminated policies for 160,000 people. In florida, at least 300,000 people are losing coverage. That includes 56yearold diane barrett. Last month, she received a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield informing her as of january 2014, she would lose her current plan. She pays 54 a month. The new plan shes being offered would run 581 a month. Okay, youve probably seen a lot of coverage like that, and heres part of the problem with what you just heard. That kind of cheap 54 Insurance Plan, the kind i had when i was 24, that Insurance Plan that diane is going to lose is probably what Consumer Reports calls junk Health Insurance, the kind of plan that is huge deductibles, the kind of plan thats cheap but provides bare bones coverage and leaves the consumer with huge outofpocket expenses if they ever actually get sick. The price difference between dianes 54 plan and a new obama care plan also fails to take into account the possibility of available subsidies designed explicitly to help people shoulder the cost of health care. More on that in a moment. But there is underneath all of that a basic truth here. Insurance plans are being canceled. If, for example, your health Insurance Plan does not cover ten essential benefits required under the new Affordable Care act, stuff like prescription drugs, Maternity Care and Mental Health care, and if that policy was sold to you after the law went into effect in march of 2010, then that policy may, in fact, end january 1st of next year. And to understand why the right is making so much hay out of this, why they are obsessed with it, why its leading drudge, the source of the uproar, you have to understand two basic truths about American Health care that guided the entire design of the Affordable Care act. All right, are you listening . Number one, the American Health care system is way, way too expensive and leaves too many people uninsured. It delivers the worst value of any system among developed countries. Thats number one. Number two, the majority of people do not want to change their health care. Those two ideas were always very much in tension with each other. But the design of obama care was to leave as much as possible of our existing Health Care System in place while also covering the uninsured and bringing down costs. What we are seeing right now is the front edge of where attempts to deal with truth number one run into truth number two. Under the Affordable Care act, you will no longer be permitted to buy a really crappy Health Insurance policy, just as under financial reform, lots of folks are no longer permitted to buy heinously destructive adjustable rate balloon payment mortgages. Joining me now to explain this is nancy metcalf, Senior Editor at Consumer Reports, dr. Menisha shermana, medical director at Evergreen Health care, part of a new insurance provider in marylands Health Exchange and jonathan coombs, Senior Editor at the new republic, author of sick the untold story of Americas Health care crisis and the people who pay the price. All right, theres two issues floating around. I saw it really explode this weekend. One is people are getting their plans canceled. What is going on . We were all told nothing would change and now things are changing. You sold us a bill of goods, Barack Obamas a tyrant, i hate you. Then the other is, the prices in the exchange. So, i want to take them in order, because theres actually some really interesting and important truths to be told here, and i want to have you guys with your expertise explain whats going on with these cancellations right after we take this break. [ sponge ] now for the main event. In this corner, the reigning lasagna dish, the big cheese. And in this corner, the best generation of dawn power, platinum [ bell dings ] here we go [ female announcer ] dawn platinum power cleans microscrubbing enzymes give you the power of an overnight soak in 3 minutes, and 3 times more everyday grease cleaning ingredients. For all your dishes. So if you like dawn, youll love platinum. [ sponge ] the champion [ female announcer ] dawn platinum does even more. [ sponge ] so its not a chore. Were back. Im here with nancy metcalf, dr. Money nisha sharma, jonathan cohen. Jonathan, explain to me whats going on with these plans being canceled. I actually like the way you explained this tension between trying to create a better Health Care System but recognizing that a lot of people have insurance that they like. So, the basic approach of obama care, the Affordable Care act is to look and say, well, who has stable insurance right now . And predominantly, thats people, you know, with insurance from a Large Employer or from medicare or from medicaid. And thats actually the vast majority of americans. So, for them, you know, very little changes. But you have this group of people who are buying insurance on their own, and these are where you have all the problems, this is where you have all the problems, all those plans that you mentioned that dont cover things. When you can buy a plan on the individual market, it might be really cheap, but it wont cover maternity it wont cover Mental Health, it will have huge deductibles it wont cover prescription drugs. And basically, the law says, look, we want to set a standard, a minimum standard that all plans must meet these, you know, must provide these things. And if there are plans out there that dont, you know, Insurance Companies are going to have to come up with something new. Now, that means that the people who have those plans now eventually are going to have to give them up. That is what were seeing. It is that very small number of americans who have to give up those plans. Nancy, the individual market was kind of a wild west before this bill, right . I mean, as someone at Consumer Reports, have you interacted with the individual market . Extensively, and its been a nightmare for consumers. They dont understand it. Its been tremendously easy for them to end up with horrendous insurance that doesnt talk about not covering prescription drugs, not covering hospitalization, not covering doctor visits, not covering xrays. Its just been horrendous, and its been very difficult for people to navigate. The Affordable Care act is going to change that. Youre not going to be able to buy a junk plan anymore. Theyre against the law. Do you think thats a good thing . Absolutely, because its doing for people on the individual market what big, huge Human Resources departments have been doing for years for people who get insurance through their jobs. So, the employerprovided health care, the people who are negotiating these big, bulk contracts, they also put in minimum standards into those big contracts when you get employerprovided . Yes, absolutely. Dr. Sharma, youre now active in Health Care Provider in maryland thats setting up this exchange, and the other thing besides plans getting canceled is the idea of rates going up. We are hearing any time there is an american out there, looks like their rates are going up, they will be on your television set. What is your sense in the early going of on balance whats happening to folks that are going into the exchanges . So, you know, i think that when we look at insurance policies being canceled and raising prices and premiums going up, i think those are really great headlines for people who hate the Affordable Care act. But the fact of the matter is, is that you have to look under the Sticker Price. The Sticker Price may be that its, you know, x amount of dollars, but theres a lot of subsidies that go on with these Sticker Prices. And underneath it is giving comprehensive health care. Prior to the Affordable Care act, lets not forget that Insurance Companies were not regulated, they were not held accountable for giving people Proper Health care access. And so, with the Affordable Care act and the Sticker Prices that may look at the first blush as being expensive, youve got to look under the hood of the car and be able to say, hey, this is what were getting. Right, and the big question is subsidies. We dont know, for instance, in the woman profiled on cbs, we do not know if she applies for subsidies. Even that being the case, jonathan, it is true, right, there will be some people in the future world who will pay more for insurance. That is not an absolute outright falsehood about some set of human beings under the Affordable Care act . No, its absolutely the case. There are going to be people who pay more, and there are going to be people who pay less. There is no way to design a Health Care System where everybody pays less. What i think is important to remember, though, is that the best estimates ive seen say that if you look at the people who buy insurance now and what they will be paying later, the most likely, the majority will be paying less. So youll have more winners than losers. If you want to think of it that way. And even the people who will be paying less and this is what i think everyone is saying tonight is the people who are paying more, theyre still getting much better insurance. Theyre Getting Better coverage. And you know, in the long run, they may actually spend less on their medical bills because theyll have better coverage. Does that more or less jive with what youve found . Yes, and the problem is, people dont realize theyve got these subsidies coming to them. If i can do a little ad. Yes. Consumer reports created an online interactive tool. You put in a couple pieces of information, its anonymous. If you cant find it out right now from healthcare. Gov, you can come to our site and find out whether you have one of these subsidies coming to you, or maybe even have your kids be eligible for c. H. I. P. , maybe even be eligible for medicaid. Right. So, thats because its a thing that a lot of people are really missing. This is a really important point that not just subsidies in the market, but there is medicaid expansion, there is c. H. I. P. , a variety of things people may qualify for if they can make it through the thicket. Whats your experience been like, dr. Sharma, in maryland so far . I know the exchanges run into problems there. As a frontline provider, are you confident about where this is headed right now . Yes, i am. I think, you know, all good things have time to cultivate and work out the kinks. The Insurance Exchange is a great place for folks to get quality, lowcost health care. Evergreen coop is a it came to fruition because of the Affordable Care act, because its actual mission is to be able to say, hey, were all about patients health. We care about what matters to patients. Their voice counts. Prior to the Affordable Care act, lets not forget, im not an insurance expert, but im an everyday doctor, everyday people, and i can tell you with all of my patients that have not had Health Insurance and would come and see me because they were really, really sick, this is the first time where theyll be able to have actual access to health care that they can afford. And you know, its a step in the right direction for it