they made that quest to meet, and frankly people were quite skeptical about it, to be honest, clearly the idea that they would meet in belarus just seemed so unlikely. and the ukrainians, understandably, saying, well, why would we go there when they're a part to this conflict. as cal is setting out, they seem to have found some kind of neutral ground. but again, talking to one former official with close ties, close contacts inside the kremlin, his view, i was speaking to him earlier today, is that, to be honest, this is kind of russian trolling, as he described it. you pose as if you want to negotiate because you're trying to manage the message, but actually you're not really that interested in negotiating. the other thing to point out is that there have been negotiations. there were multiple talks with world leaders running up to this. and we know what the fundamental demands from russia are and