>> right. i mean, so, first of all, i agree with garry that putin did achieve one objective in having this phone call, which is having the phone call, showing his relevance, showing, you know, russia's a power, coequal power with the united states, hinting at the possibility of having spheres of influence in deciding ukraine's fate without ukraine there, so that is a victory for putin. but in addition to that, i think putin was looking for some intelligence. he was probably looking to test president biden's resolve, and it sounds like what he got back as an answer was that president biden is very resolved and working closely with our european allies to make sure that, number one, we protect -- we help ukraine protect itself and in that piece that we -- that i coauthored with a large group spearheaded by the atlantic council, we were beautiful arguing that right now, we should not wait, that the administration should continue its arming of ukraine right now, that the administration should continue working out sanctions packages