Move ever closer to their homes. So what does this battle mean for the people of mosul itself, and for the region as a whole . Thats what we will be talking about with three people who are following events there very closely. It is a pleasure to welcome amir musawy, an iraqi journalist based in berlin. He says a military victory over i. S. In mosul means the possibility of a fresh start for iraq. Daniel gerlach is the founder and editor in chief of zen ith, a magazine about the islamic world, and he says that whoever wants to conquer mosul should rumor renumber how it fell into i. S. Hands in the first place, through political failure. Finally, a pleasure to welcome alan posener, a political commentator for the berlin daily die welt. He believes i. S. Will soon be history, but what happens next . If the west leaves the region to itself, sunni rage will create an even more brutal successor. Amir musawy, as i hear it you will be leaving within a few hours in order to go to iraq and a company and report on this offensive as an embedded journalist in the special forces unit known as the golden division. What is the mood amongst the people fighting there . Amir well, when we ask the people and the officers there on the ground what they are expecting in this battlefield, is this battlefield d the same s tikrit, or ramadi or they say it is, totally different because the city, it is bigger than the other cities. I. S. Got enough time to, almost more than two years, to prepare for this assault. Bombs, massnds destruction weapons, chemical weapons. They are expecting everything. But at thehe end of the day, thy are really insisting to put an end to that regime inside mosul. Melinda what about when you talk to family and friends in iraq . Do they truly see this as endgame for i. S. . Amir m military, yes. They see this as the end of the journey of i. S. Inside of iraq, gain in the military. But im not really sure it could be the end of their ideology inside the region and also in iraq. I think we should not forget, there is a generation that lived under the regime of i. S. , and they got all this s ideology. For could be very hard task the Iraqi Government. Melinda daniel gerlach, experts predict there will be house to house fighting of the bitterest sort. They say i. S. Has set up boobytraps in mosul, and it could well use civilians as human shields. What do you think . Will the troops seeking to liberate the city nonetheless be seen by the people who lived under i. S. Command for two years as liberators . Daniel i dont think so. If thisrtheless, mimilitary operation turns out o be successful, and i think it will be successful, it is just a question of what material and human loss will come with it, then people will accept it. Because i dont think any of the iraqi army,pt the will be staying and will be able to occupy the city and keep control over it for a long time. Also whenecome clear you are following the political debate in the last couple of months. But i think the fight on the ground, in the streets, is going to be brutal, and theres a lot of discussion about these paramilitary militias that should stay out of the city. But in fact, these paramilitary militias, please shia militias everybody is going ballistic about, are the ones who can do the job on the ground. Like it or not, they fight the same way the Islamic State fighters are fighting. Relentless, brutal, highly motivated, and thesese are the oneses who have done t the job o far. So i dont really think that the iraqi Central Government can fight daesh without them, because this fight is not about kicking daesh out of the city, kicking the Islamic State out of the city. It is about annihilating this organization. And certainly the jihadi fighters were part of it, some of them will die, many of them will die, but others will merge into society and organize a resistance, terror attacks, as we have seen them before 2014. Melinda alan posener why mosul and why now . Alan why mosul . Because it is basically iraqs aleppo. It is the mercantile city, a huge city. Whoever controls mosul controls the region, whether it be called iraq or the syrian empire or the eastern part of the ottoman empire, this was always the prize, the change between the north, the kurdish part, and the shiite part in the southeast and the sunni part in the south. So this holds iraq together. And therefore, anyone with an ambition to control the whole of iraq needs that city. So thats why if you ask why now, i think the time is right. They have been moving, the iraqis have been moving should slowly but surely up the river tigris toward mosul, and they have to do it. Its a question of credibility, isnt it . If you say you are going to do whatever daesh, isil, you want to call them, you have to act on your promise, and now is the time. Melinda there is of course an echo chamber on the internet that says it has everything to do with the u. S. Election, which is now entering its final stage. Is there anything to such theories . Alan i dont see what it could have to do with the election. Government israqi saying it will not be over until the end of the year. And the election is in two weeks. So what does this have to do, one with the other . It is just time. This has been an offensive that has been going on for months, you might almost say for a year now, and now they have reached mosul. Thats it. Its not the americans. Its not the election. Those are conspiracy serious. Daniel i think it has to do with the situation inside baghdad, between baghdad and erbil. The agreement between erbil, president bararzani. Melinda the kurdish amir yes, and the iraqi prime minister. Two weeks before the beginning of operation mosul. That made it possible that iraqi army has an access to the from the side of the kurdish area. This is, all these months we hearard about the preparation of the mosul operation. ,he Iraqi Government tried to around mosul there is a sunni tribe. These tribes should play thee main role to get control of the city after liberating. And you cannot do the job without this tribe, without the backing of the sunni tribes in the region. I have to disagree on this point, relative to u. S. Election or influence by the schedule of the u. S. Election. I agree it is not the main reason, but i think there is an element here. Those political decisions, the campaign against mosul has been announced for a long time and has been on for a long time, but im very sure the americans told those who take the decision in iraq, not only in the political but also in the military chain of command, if you do it now, or we cannot help you. Air force, which is having a lot of sorties, bombing the socalled Islamic State in mosul, can operate. But in this very critical time between a u. S. President leaving the white house and a new president coming in, this is a very critical time, and usually the u. S. Government cannot take any Major Military decisions. So i think it was important, not for political reasons to make the Obama Administration look better or make them look igaged, or in command, but think it was a very tactical decision to do it now. Melinda i want to take a closer look at the u. S. Role in this fight. President obama referred to the battle for mosul as a major step forward and a milestone. Why does mosul matter so much . Mosul lies on the banks of the tigris riverer, at the centr of a region that is rich in petroleum reserves. Ter saddamam hussein was overththrown in 2003, many of hs supporters fled to mosul. Later, they joined forces with the Islamic State organization to launch attacks against the Iraqi Government. A force of less than 1000 Islamic State soldiers occupied mosul in june 2014, after iraqi troops threw down their weapons and fled. Leadereeks later, i. S. s announced the creation of a worldwide caliphate and called on muslims to come to iraq and syria and wage jihad. Has haden, mosul tremendous symbolic value for Islamic State. President obama took pains in a statement at the beginning of this week to emphasize that it is the Iraqi Government that is calling the shots. But experts say up toto half of the u. S. S. Forces in iraq q are involveded in this battle, in se way. So how independent is the Iraqi Government really, and is the u. S. Leading the whole thing, at least from behind . Amir leading or not leading is not a question. In fact, i think the question is how much the american investing in this operation. When we go back to mr. Daniel gerlach, what he said. What would happen if this operation were not finished quickly, as they planned . This could cause problems for thee clinton in n this time. I think americansns playing a mn role in militatary operations they are giving backup from the air. They are supporting iraqi and so on. This, they are trying to balance the political situation with irans role inside iraq. Americans, i think, play the main role to bring all the shia, sunnis, in this, and they invest a lot. Melinda alan posener, you say the u. S. Election doesnt really play a role here, but what if things turned really ugly in this assault . What if we saw massive civilian casualties, knowing that u. S. Forces are involved. Could that not have an impact on Public Opinion in the u. S. , and indeed make things rather difficult for the successor to president obama . Alan yes, it could. Which is why i think that this is not determined by electoral politics. This is simple determined by necessity. The fact is, what is going on here, there is a major war, across the whole of this area, between sunni and shia. And the shia, starting from iran, going around to their allies in syria and lebanon, mr. Bella h ezbollah, has been pushing the sunnis out of the area for years now. The new thing by the Obama Administration was the attempt, by pivoting towards iran, to place america not on one side of this issue. Whereas the russians have gone fully behind iran, mr. Assad, and hezbollah. So a lot more depends on this, but a lot more than electoral politics. Its a question of, will america be seen in the new middle east as an honest broker or as someone who is on the side of one or the other . Melinda daniel gerlach, your Opening Statement reminded us that we often have short memories. The fact is, u. S. Counterterrorism partnerships in the past have not always had a good record, precisely because of the complexity of sectarian ethnic politics in this region. Mosul, as you point out, would not be in i. S. Hands now if the u. S. Had not failed in training iraqi troops. Afghanistan, the taliban have made steady gains against american trained military forces. Why should things go any different in iraq . Daniel i dont think the failure of the amemericans w wat to sufficiently train iraqi troops, nor do i think the big failure was not to stay on after they withdrew major parts of their troops. I think it is much more complex than this. I also dont believe, i see the sunnishia antagonism, but i think that is a very simplest of you to say there is a war simplistic view to say there is a war going on in the region between sunni and shia and that america does not take a side. It is more competition. The question is, why did mosul fall into the hands of the socalled Islamic State . Asul was the pride of iraq, strategically important place, economically successful, the home base of the iraqi army, and you would not find any more nationalist spirit in iraq than in mosul. Then, after the american, british, whatever Coalition Invasion of iraq, the destruction of the Saddam Hussein regime and his whole security apparatus, mosul became the disenfranchised part of iraq. Partly because of sectarian strife, but thats not the only reason. Mosul was in the hands of al qaeda. Al qaeda elements were active in mosul long before. Having mafia kind of control over the civilian population. The iraqi state did not act against that. I know that officials told me previous to 2014, to when they officially declared the caliphate, they said, i am never going to mosul. We as s state officials never go to mosul. This is an uncontrollable area, and it has been like this for years before. So for many people in mosul, not only the narrative of the disenfranchised sunnis, and those who support their interests, was successful, but there was at least one mafia organization, the socalled Islamic State, which took over control, instead of many mafia organizations all trying to get their share, fighting each other, blackmailing each other. So this is a logical conclusion. In the absence of a state, in the absence of basic protection of the civilians, every authority is better than no authority, and this is why they could create this homebase long before 2014, and this is why taking over mosul was not conquering mosul, but somebody handed over the keys. Melinda amir musawy, you told us in your Opening Statement this could be a fresh start. The fact is, iraq has had a couple opportunities at fresh starts, and has not made the most out of them. Long, long the u. S. Has been saying, this is a political problem and it needs a political solution from within, and that solution has not come to pass in the past. Why should it now . Amir i think we should go back to 2003, when the americans imposed a political system in iraq. I i think they did not put a a t of effort to establish a political atmosphere to accepting others. They just said simply, the shia have the majority in the country, they go to an election, and they are going to get control of the government in iraq, and this is wrong. This is the same point wrong that we see now in turkey. 51 with erdogan, 49 against him, and the end erdogan makes what he wants. This is not democracy. Democracy should take care of the other opinion, to give him the feeling that he is a firstclass member of society, and not different classes. I talk with the people, fromm mosul, in 2013. They said, i feel myself as a secondclass member in this society. I get a long time at the checkpoint, and so on. This has to do with the political system. At t the end of the day, now the government inside of iraq, this is a big mistake happening in the past and it should not happen in the future, especially inside mosul, where the majority of the people are sunni, close to the kurdish area, and the kurdish area, the ambition of the kurdish, they would like to suppoporting an area possible indndependence of thehe kukurds. At the end of the day, you should put a political system, give the rights for all people in equal way. Melinda some people, alan posener, looking at this very motley coalition of the the new. Forces that start we may see is a partitioning of iraq. This could be the beginning of that. Do you think that is right . Alan i dont think it is feasible. All this talk of partitioning. We had that back after the first world war, and look what happened. Since time immemorial, this part of the world has been a mix of nationalities and creeds and what have you. The whole fertile crescent, from baghdad right over to lebanon. And the most you can hope for is to impose some kind of state order within the imperfect boundaries of socalled nationstates, which are not real nationstates, and hope that people will be able to manage their affairs. But you know, theres no way you can draw a border within iraq, which will create neat kurdish areas, neat sunni area, neat shia area. Thats not going to happen. Plus, turkey would never allow a kurdish state to become reality in the north. And then we should not want it, either. Melinda where do you see the political situation developing after a liberation of mosul . One author on your website has written that the various members of the antii. S. Coalition fear each other more than they fear the jihadists. Daniel and its even more complex than this. I recently talked to a young researcher who came back from studying the fragmentation and the chain of command inside of the kurdish troops. She says, you have people from different parties, different command structures, inside this kurdish bloc, and they disagree with each other. They believe, my enemy is fighting on my left side or my right side. So even in these units, you can monolithic,ocs as but even in these there is strife and a lot of hatred. And thats also very historical. Happening in the iraq he army iraqi army. Everyone has some account to settle. But i dont think we are dealing with a partition, necessarily, but a very interesting phenomenon in state theory. That is what i have previouslyly called the nondeclared state, which is happening in the north of iraq. It might be e happening in the north of syria. Which is, somebody takes power, somebody takes on the duty of performing, of providing some kind of protection, some kind of public services, to the citizen. May he call it a state or not . Technically hes executing autonomy over a certain area, and people have the feeling of living in some kind of state, because first and foremost the concern is security, and the second is health care, wealth, a job, and all these things. So the question is not, whose flag is going to fly over what city . The question is, who is going to provide what services . That will mark the new borders of the middle east, in my view. So everythings on the table. Int like saying, we believe the territorial integrity of iraq or syria or whatever, that is the wrong answer. Melinda let me just very quickly, because we are almost out of time, and i do want to very briefly address two further issues of what happens after the liberation of mosul. First of all, i. S. Itself. Could fall back on raqqa possibly in syria. What about all the foreign fighters . Some experts, including members of the e. U. Commissssion, warned that a number of the foreign jihadists could wind up back here in europe. Is that a serious risk, and are we prepared to handle it . Amir it is a really serious problem for the western countries, in europe, because most of these fighters will already have fled to syria already. We are talking about hundreds of raqqars going back to or other cities. We should put in mind, you defefeat an organization militarily, but not the ideological. This ideological, some people find this idea is very sexy, t o have a state as the culprit and so on. We shoululd make a lot research about this ideology, and how can we face it. Melinda finally, refugees. The u. N. Humanitarian coordinator for iraqq once we could see a humanitarian catastrophe, hundreds of thousands of refugees. Do you think that is a serious risk . If so, are we prepared to handle that . Alan it is not a risk. It is certainty. I think they are preparing for 400,000 refugees, and they say it could be more. But they will be dealtlt witith, they will be received and helped within iraq, within the kurdish areas especially, and i think that can happen. I dont think we should be worried we should care about these people, we should make sure that they get what they need. But that is secondary. Melinda daniel gerlach, your title final blow for i. S. Is it one . Daniel it is a decisive one, a critical one, but not the last battle. Melinda ok. Many thanks to all of you for being here today, and thanks to all of you out there for tuning in. See you soon. ccc announcer this is a production of China Central television america. May sustainability is in, and its shaping trends all across the board, from agriculture to fashion and gourmet dining. This week on full frame, a look at the tastiest, chicest, and coolest ininnovations inin sustainability. Im may lee in los angeles. Lets take it full frame. May so, what do you need to grow thriving crops . Soil, sun, water, right . Well, maybe not. What if you could grow crops with little to no water . Jill farrant is a professor and Research Chair in the department of molecular and cell biology at the university of cape town in south africa, and shes currently leading the development of drought tolerant crops. Now, theyre called resurrection plants because they can survive in a drought and d then resurrect themselves when they are irrigated. Further developments of these plants can help provide solutions for feeding populations in dry and arid climates around the world. Farrants research has received international praise, and in 2012 she was a recipient or the loreal unesco award for women in science. Joining us from cape town to tell us more about the potential impact of her research is jill farrant. Welcome to the show, jill. Great to have you here. Jill thank you. Thank you for inviting me on. May well, jill, lets first start off with your childhood, because i know that your interest in the outdoors and plants began at a very early age, and you spent a lot of time outside. I know theres one story where you went outside once, you saw a dry plant, and then the next day it rained and it was all vibrant again. You went home and told your dad and he said thats impossible. Tell me a little bit about that moment for you. Jill interesting moment, because obobviously i was a very observant child, observant because weather drove the mood in our home. My father was a farmer, and if it wasnt raining, that was a problem, cause the crops wouldnt be watered. If it was raining with hail, that was a problem, because then the crops would be damaged. So, being observant, i actually noticed this deadlooking plant, um, came back and saw it resurrected the nextxt daywrotote it in my 9yearldld diary, anfoforgot ababout it, toe e honest, fofory years later. But there was one thing iwn n i discoverered the fact that someone else had published about this many, many years later, i said, wow, i wonder if thats what i noticed, and, yes, it was. May so, at that point, then, when you realized that there was something to this, this idea of resurrection plants, is that when you decided, all right, im gonna go and research this and see what this is all about and maybe it could lead to something new . Jill yeah, absolutely. The moment i got the understanding of how these plants could lose all of their water, remain in that desiccated state for years beforeand still be alive enough to when water comes to resurrect and start growing within 12 hours, i knew that this was a potential solution to droughts, and wasnt aware at the time, though, to what extent drought would be happening in my country. And with africa being a rain fed agriculture, this is a crisisis for us at t the mome, so, yeah, ivevery lucky t thi actually s started to do t this search some 22 yearsrs ago. May and youve kept at it. Well, jill, since im not a scientist and most of our viewers are probably not scientists, can you explplain to us in laymans terms how a resurrection plant actually works. Jill how do they work . Um, the big trick is that most living organisms go under a lot of stress if they lose water. The resurrection plants, when they first start to feel a drought, immediately perceive that somewhere down the line that it might be something that they might have to lose more water than they really want to at this point, turn on a whole lot of genes, which actually facilitate a very safe lossss of that wate, protecting membranes, protecting all sorts of things that normally fall apart when there is no water in the environment. And the nature of my research, really, is that there are other models out there that do this. Most of our crops, most of our plants, produce seeds that can dry down to very low water content and yet survive and restorore germplplasm as seeds. So the phenomenon is not often seen i in most plalants in vegetativeve tissues, but it isn seededs. Now, what i h have discovered isand lots of collaborators who work with me is that in fact what resurrection plants do is they use those preexisting seed genes that are already in the genome, they just switch them on in vegetative tissues when thats normally silenced in a crop. And so the whole trick, i guess im telling you where i think you might go for my next question, the whole trick is right now, how do resurrection plants switch on those genes in their roots and leaves . Can we mimic that in a crop so that when water losswhen drought becomes severe, the plants simply dry down and wait for the next rain. May so now thats whatthat is at the heart of your research, right . Because youre basically trying to create these crops that will mimic this behavior so they can survive through, really, any kind of condition and still produce and be bearing fruit, right . Jill thats exactly what were trying to do. I know that there are people out there going, oh, how productive will this plant be if its spending a lot of its time in the dry state . And its a very real question that we need to answer. But the reality is that as long as theres water, this plant will pick up, start growing, andinitially, at least, a little bit faster than it would have done beforehand, almost to make up for the lost time. So in a season where theres sufficient rain, we will have absolutely the normal yield we would always have. In a season with a drought, we will still have a good year. In a season with an extended drought, we will still have a crop. It might not be fantastic. May wow. So it can produce no matter what the conditions are, with very little water or plentiful water. Thats fascinating. And also you said it doesnt take as long as the normal crop. Jill well, you know, depending on where were trying to put this, if youre going to put it into an annual, which is a crop which will only grow for a short amount of time, in order to get a lot of seed for us to eat, um, we wouldwe would have to maintain that that plant can continue to grow even in a time where it would not normally be designed a normal environmental conditions. But what im thinkings gonna happen, certainly here, is that normal environmental conditions arent really going to prevail for most of the time. Were going to have extended droughts, a lot of heat. These plants withstand all of that. We will also get a lot of cold and a lot of wet. And so what were trying to do, i think, in the long term, is to get a very resistant, a resilient crop, a crop that will do well under hydrated conditions but actually wont die under the more extreme conditions. May and, jill, you know, these days we hear so much about the issue of global warming, climate change, these extreme weather conditions that were having, and one of them being drought. Uh, the lack of water. So, if we dont try to pursue things like youre working on, what are we looking at. Whats the dire future . I mean, i use that word, but i think thats probably what eveverybody figuresit could be very dire if we dont dodo something about it. Jill yeah. You know, i think what im potentially offering is only one of the many other solutions that really have to be evolved. There are going to be areas on our planet where it will be much more conducive to being the bread baskets of the world. And i guess what we must do is capitalize on those areas and this food must be shared. Then in areas where youre going to have extended droughts, were going to have to have local Food Security and subsistence farmers start growing the crops that are way more drought tolerant. My idea is to actually intercrop these. To actually use cereals with protein, rich seeds, and things like that, so that the subsistence farmer has a balanced diet that comes out, over a year, with various crops that can actually grow through various seasons to be productive at the right time. May jill, i know that the estitimates for you is that you want these crops to actually be fully functional through your experimentation in about 10 years time. So is that realistic at this point in your research . Jill its realistic dependent on one condition, that i get enough money to do this. And i think scientists all around the world always say, well, we just dont have enough money. We dont have enough money. Um, and, of course, collaborators and myself now kind of know we think we know what we need to do. Its a matter of getting the money and doing it. We are writing grants and doing all sorts of things. But given the right amount of money to complete what we think we need to do, i give proof of concept 5 years, roll out by 10. May ok. And, um, jill, in terms of what this potentially could do, uh, for world hunger and providing the proper nutrition to parts o of the world that we all know are suffering from extrememe poverty and huhunger, is thisis this the answer . Jill as i said before, i think its one answer. Were gonna have to be very creative in other ways of producing food, too. Um, iim hesitant to say that this is gonna be a great solution for all of africa. I think its going to be a small solution, a small drop in an ocean that we really need to do a lot more with it. Sorry, im feeling a bitits late at night for me. I beg your pardon, im stumbling a bit. May thats ok. Well, jill, let me ask you this, then. Once you are through with this research, because youre saying about 5 or 10 years time, whats going to be next for you . Whats on the horizon . Jill uh, im one of those people who can never say no to a new challenge. One of the big things that were going to be facing in africaand i think worldwide, toois soil stress. Because as the soils get more dry, you get a lot of increased salinity and irons and things accumulating. So one of the things we are starting to look at is crosstalk between stresses. Crosstalk between water, deficit stress drought, soil stress, because often that will go hand in hand. So, even as we speak, we are starting to look at things like that. For me, personally, um, i dont know if ill ever retire, but my dream is to use South African plants, and we have an enormous amount of variety here, for medicinal purposes, to try and start letting people be able to grow plants that can be used for food and medicine. May jill, you know, im curious. Uh, some people might look at what youre doing right now, uh, with manipulating, you know, these resurrection plants and trying to figure out how they work, and the final product being sort of frankenstein creation, uh, because youre manipulating so many things. Uh, is that the case . Are these actually safe . Jill its a question that everyone asks simply because the perception that genetically modified organisms or genetically modified crops are going to be frankenfood. I feel that the discipline has been given a very bad rap, because it can be exceptionally safe. The ethical reason for what youre doingwhat youre doing, using the technology for is what should the dririving the answer. Um, so, yes, of course, there can be, and i think with all the concern thats around now, were making sure that they are safe at all l levels before theyre released to the public. Again, longterm trials have to be done. We might be eating these things for 10 years and find that theres something crazy happens to us. I doubt it. But, you know, those are the things that we have to face every day. And some of the technology being developed, for example, to make meat, Stem Cell Research from beef, you know. Is that safe . Dont know. But working on an animal seems more desirable, and if i may say, than working on a plant, in most peoples eyes. I thinki really think that plants being the base of the food chain, we really need to look after our plants. May and, jill, from the scientific community, have you gotten positive feedback . Are theyey liking whatat youre doi . Jill in the main, yes. Most scientists understand what im trying to do and how im trying to do it, and they applaud that. Um, so, yeah, ive had very little criticism, other than people saying to me, well, youre going to make gmo foods. How is that going to affect us . May hmm. Ok. Jill, you have some plants in front of you on the desk. Can you tell me what you have . Jill so the very drylooking twigs here is a resurrection plant which has gone green in 12 hours, cause ive put some of those twigs into water. So just to show how rapidly this happens, this plants beeni harvested them two years ago, dry. So they are still very much alive. And its just one of the many species i work with. This one has got a fancy name, as they all do, called myrothamnus flabellifolius, or alias the resurrection bush. Um, its got a lot ofwell, most of these resurrection plants have incredible chemicals in them which protect against the various stresses they have to survive. And so a tea, why i brought this one particularly, because a herbal health tea has also been made from the leaves, which is good for stomach complaints apparently. High in antioxidants. May so, jill, thats amazing. So you harvested those dry plants two years ago, but then you resurrected them within 12 hours. Thats amazing. Jill absolutely. It is s amazi. I think that, to meif anyone is interested, theres some videos on my website whehere it actualal shows you the t time lapse of t these things going fm the extremely dry state to full up and healthy within 12 hours. May wow. That is incredible. Well, jill, thank you so much for joining g us today fascinatating stuff yoyoure do. Jill youre welcome. Cheers. May well, jills work is solving a sustainability challenge on dry land, but what about food crops from the ocean . Tuna, shrimp, tilapia, and salmon are among the most popular seafood eaten around the world, but thats also been their downfall. These once plentiful species are now dwindling because of our overconsumption over the last 30 years. Now, recognizing the depleting supplies, chefs around the globe are experimenting with new, lesser known types of abundant seafood, often referred to as trash fish by fishermen unable to sell them. Full frames mike walter takes a look at this growing trend. [sea birds calling] mike their hunt begins before dawn. For the past week, these commercial fishing boats harvested the sea floor, searching for the best catch. Today their efforts are paying off. [horn beeps] bert i mean, today were selling pollock for 3. 50 a pound, which was unheard of 20 years ago. It was like 5 cents a pound. So the value of our fish seems to have increased the past 5 to 10 years pretty strongly. Mike for years, popular fish like atlantic cod and haddock were the staples for new england fishermen. But overfishing and environmental changes drastically reduced these fish in their nets. Instead, they were catching whats called trash fish, species like redfish, pollock, and hake that only sold for pennies at the dock, earning them the nickname. Thats when chefs, fishermen, and scientists came together to determine how to fill the culinary void. Rauni the fishermen would suggest a species to a chef, and the chef would s say, oh, i dt think so. I dont find that delectable. Or, you know, thats going to break my knives, or, thats too difficult to handle. And then the chefs would suggest a species that was also under utilized and the fishermen would say, well, thats too far out. Its going to cost us too much money to bring in. Or, its too difficult. We have to brine it or ice it or whatever, so were not going to be able to be profitable. Mike eventually, they settled on the under loved fish that would work for both chef and fishermen, starting a broader trend in the u. S. , using species in the kitchen that are more abundant in the sea. Jen i think the real trend is in understanding why its in season, whats bountiful, and basically eating with the ecosystem and adapting and understanding how to work with the seafood and the species that Mother Nature makes available to us. Mike at the inn by the sea near portland, maine, they understand and they are adapting. Youll always find under utilized fish on the restaurants menu at this luxury waterfront resort. Steve we incorporate it in our lunch menu every day in the form of hake tacos. Were certainly working to help, you know, promote the common men, the common fishermen, and d reay the backbone of what the econony of maine once was, especially here in Southern Maine along the gulf. Mike now maines fishermen hope more diners will embrace the seafood ththey catch, no mattr what the species or ninaname, and he ushern culina tren that will kee thfishing bos afloatnd the as harve abundant. Or full ame, thiss mike lter. May cing up nt, trend shions wh an envonment consciencewe be righback. May our next guests are on a mission to return clothing manufacturing to its makers and to utilize and innovate sustainable, environmentally sound production practices. From their first biodegradable espadrilles to their bolivian alpaca sweaters and dramatic dye colors made fromom organic materials in ind, industry of all nations is creating clothing with a conscience and connecting their products with the people making them. Founded by brothers patricio, juan, and Fernando Gerscovich in 2010, the company blends their love of design with their eye for fashion and passion for creativity. Here to share more about their sustainable, readytowear tale are juan and Fernando Gerscovich. Welcome to the show. Thank you u so much. Fernando thank you. Juan hi, may. May and your other brother is missing, right . He is in miami. Juan yeah, pat is in miami. May ok. Ok. Well, tell me. How did 3 brothers from argentina decide all of a sudden that they are going to go into Sustainable Clothing and then source it from around the world . Because i think you two are trained architects, right . Juan yeah, yeah. May so, frorom architect to clothing, how did that happen . Juan well, it happenedi think it happensa lot of ingredients that created this formula for us to create industry of all nations. Our parentsour parents arewere fashion designers in buenos aires. So we grew up in the fashion business, in a way. Apart from being abeing trained architects, we be in other wayswe had a very entrepreneurial way of living and philosophy in our brains and hearts. And weve been always very curious about brands and how people consume and how people sell and buy. Andso, there was a point that as consumers, we were getting so unexcited and it wasit was, like, not making sense to us that every time we want to buy something and we would look where it was made, it was made just inlike, only in china or maybe in ain a few countries in southeast asia. Being that every country in the world produces or used to produce, but for some reasonnot for some reason, because just for the reason that it was in that country it was more cost effective, people are paid less. Fernando cheaper. May yeah, of course. Yeah. Juan yeah. So, see, also, its verysee, also its veryevery brand decided to carry all productions in every country and take it there where its cheap, where its more affordably made. May mmhmm. Because Companies Just worried about the bottom line, right . Itsthey just want to save money, and then they want to produce it really quickly to get it out. Juan yeah. May right . Juan exactly. May yeah. Fernando and it becameit became normal for us. Lets say for the past 50 years that clothes were just made in one part of the world. And the truth is as humans, wewere used to make things, you know, collectively. Make things, buy things, use things, so thats what we realize that, hey, we need to start making things again. May and care about what was being made, right . Its about the quality and how its made and, you know, the people who are making it. So, obviously, your company is about trying to source those products that are actually being made by real people. Juan yeah, yeah. Because, you know what, were buyingthe way theyre buying, like, orphan products. People that areproduct that are made by people who have no idea what theyre making. One day theyre making wool, its the same company. One day making watches. There, theyre making raincoats. There, theyre making boots. We have no connection to what theyreto what theyre making. May oh, the connection, yeah. Juan no connection whatsoever. Fernando yeah, thats super important. That the work as aas a basic activity that we do, it has to have meaning for us. Otherwise, its complete nonsense. May well, thats obviously why you started this company that has such depth to it, right . Lets talk about how you go back juan yeah, i mean, you explain very well. No, its like, basically, the main thing is to brining productions baback to theto the original makers. May y to the makers, right. To the makers. Well, lets talk about juan yeah, thats when i it alltthats s how it all star. Mamay lets talk aboutut how yu find those products, right . I mean, you go all over the world to try to find these products. For instance, why did you choose bolivia to go and get these alpaca sweaters . Fernando yeah. So, talking about wool. No clothes to wear during the winter. There isthere isbolivia, peru, this part of the world in the andes mountains, its part of their tradition. Families there, theyve been breeding alpacas or llamas for generations. And it was a matter of connecting the dots, discovering them, working with them, and make their craft available for the rest of the world. And in the case of this specific project, the alpaca project in bolivia, its a great example of the overalinindust of f al nationsononceptits creaeang the deded vae ofof, s, the places he e theithehey e gift w with w mamateals, f f exame, o or th manufacturing techquques. W, i in is casas we work with this opoperate. There e e 1,00farmrmer they allwnwn a pce o of nd. Theyllll bre theheirlpacasas and enen, thwholole cle contin f from e lalandf the alpa, whertheyeyre breeding, alththe wato the fishshed pductct, ke an alpaca sweater. Nd t thss creangng thavalulue the w wle process from the raw material all the way to the finished product. Thats a great thing that can happen and thats how our susupply chain worksks. May so, its full circle. Juan its a full circle. Yeah. May like, you were saying, juan, i mean, theres a connection there with everything. Juan yeah, and thats what we aim in every product. In most of the products that wehow do you say it . Most of the products that we fernando approach. Juan we approach is to go and produce with the people who grow the fiber,rereed t aninima. Instead , likejustst gbbingg what theywt t theyrow w wi their landndnd takit s somhere to produ i it. N letets ininude those pelele apa frorom,ike, makinghehe rawatereria makinin the finish p produ. May andt t muste grgratying for them tacactual seeee fm startoto finh whwhatheyre doing r r yourompapanynsteadad of, keke, yosaidid, eyalalof a sudden, thr r mateal i is st taken d d theyave e nodea whats s happing. G. Fernando ye. Its s grifyingg and its economiclyly perct becae thenenou have,ike, this whole chain of people of the community that are involved in the process. Not onlynot only of exporting the raw material, but the mill where theyrocess t wool, the knitte t that it the eaeatersso, th you h he this full cilele andt juanyeyeah, ats realal how all the y y fromy lilitt commitity to couount. The e y communities d d counies s ca thrive wheththey c mananufture with what th p produ frorom theilaland. May and heethe e otr befit that ieally ve about at you guydo is at thers a stainality top and issue of how sometimes clothesoftentimes, how clothes are manufactured. Terrible for the environment. Really wasteful. Theres no concern for anything but just getting it out and making that money and then just leaving. Juan yeah. So, thats athats a whole other aspect that we take in consideration as much as this conversation that were having, no. How production needs to start being more sustaiainab. And we needwe startwe need to forget to make, like, things, like, fast and cheap for a big profit. May because heres an example that is on your website. I watched a video of the organic dyes that are used in india. Righ i its memesmizing. G. His video, iitasas likartti was like artrkrk wating g the guys make this dyerom m ornic marial. Tell me thimimportce of using tho t type dyeyes versushehe conntioionaway ofof dyeing mererial. Juan ye. Wellit a allit allbefore e e indurialal revolutiindurialal volution i thinkt was s 18 or 1870beforehat, so m taing about,ike, a hundred ansomethinyears ag evercloth at peoplwear in this plane they re aroun ke, a billna bilon the polation othe eartwas arnd a bilon peopl so, these biion of pple willthworld wod dress th clothes that wh nanatully dyes. A llion pele. The industal revolion cread chical ds. So, pple, say, found a waclothinmaker nd a way toye verfast andery cheap. May yh, andery dangerous, ght . Juan ich th didncare, you knowso the plutionhat ocess wod start mang to ouplanet w not tak into consideratn becae it was illevestill no no, mor portant have st and che oducts. , when wes soon as we stted instry of l nation the secd produc were going to launch was we wanted to ma j jeansso w we started trying tfifigureut h how to make ans witht t pollingg and rting evybybody. O, that researchooook uso inindiand took ualall the, l lik magicic anwoworld naturalyeyes, wch was almost einct in dia. But thats ererebore e instrialal revoluti, thatasina wass a big clotngng andhey y ma for the pletet. Sothatats whwhwe wenthehere. , wewelland alal weind thisittle grp of m sciensts tryi to test and rearch to, le, bri, li, recrea all the. And theveeen like dng for 20 yrs. But 20 year body gave em a chae to reappltheir techque fo e mode world. Sowhen w goin conta with th, we coected ally well th our searchinand may its aming whathey do. Juanyeahah, s azing. Y it ally is. Juan figure t how to srt eing likeveryday wr for the dern world may rht. Juanwith cpletely naral dy. May nd beautul colors. Rnando ah. And ewhat are r partrs in ina, eyve been woing on f all these yes is basally to peect or tadapt the mienary teniques of dyeing wh naturadyes t e mode age whe, of cours we want to throw our clothing in the washer, dryer. May right. Fernando and the color have to stay, and it has to washed and dried like a conventional chemical dye garment. May yeah. Fernando so thats the big accomplishment. May yeah, thatsthat makes a difference, especially in Todays Society where everybody, again, wants everything quickly, everything easy, which isleads me to my next question, which is, i think this must be the tough part for a business like yours, where we do live in a society where its all about fast fashion, its all about throw away, its all about cost. How do you convince people to change their attitude to buy your product when its not the cheapest thing, you know, on the shelf . Fernando yeah. May you know, but its s about education, i suppose. But has that been a big challenge . Juan yeah. Its not the cheapest, but its also not that expensive. May yeah. Juan for example, we e tried to work with, like, the most like reasonable margins as we can. For example, an industry tshirt islike, a naturally dyed industry of one nations tshirt is like 48, may, cocomparing to a 30 chemically dyed from fast fashion brand, or maybe a chemically dyed tshirt from a high end brand, that probably cost like 3 times more. So, very much in price. May right, right. But lets put it this way, you cant compete with the, you know, the big chain. Fernando yeah, i know. May 10 a tshirt or Something Like that, right . Fernando because also, thats something thatthose price point is something thatlets call them, its an artificial value that Fast Fashion Companies were in charge of creating. And the truth is that thats the problem, and people are realizing that. So may do you thinkdo you see that change . Fernando yeah. May do you see that thats a trend juan yes, we see that. May thats becoming more popular . Juan yeah, we see that also like in the shop. Now we can see live the reaction of people when they may in your new store, yeah. Juan yeah, when they encounter our products, the conversation we have is incredible, no . How people are likesome people are completely aware and they come, likeke, shopping to o us becauae they know they want to, like, have a positive effect inwith theirwith their bubuy. May right. Juan but some people dont know about it. When they hear what we say and the conversations and the information, they cannot believe whats going on, no . Fernando i mean, people thatpeople want to know, pepeople want to get informed. D the process of choosing or deciding to buy something, the elements that come to the table are starting to be different. Its not just about like, oh, how it looks because its in trend. So, were in that prococess and pepeople e asking a lot of questions and may which is great, that people are starting to become more curious, because there is one statistic that i think is so alarming that most people dont know, right. To produce one ton of cotton, it takes 200 tons of water. Juan yeah. May right . Just to produce one ton. So, things like that, how do you get that information out to the general public . You know, again, i get so mad about this. People just dont care sometimes. They tune out, so its hard. Juan yep, not only that. For someif people knew, no, that to wear your red tshirt that you love, because you have a red chemical color on, youre polluting everything around the manufacturing place where that tshirt was made. May right. Jujuan what would people say . May and people live there. Juan yeah. May people live in that area where its being polluted. Juan people live there and thatsand that happens eveverywhere in the world. Not only somewhere far away. Companies, factories here in downtown l. A. , theyre like dyeing with poison because chemicals are poison and throwing the leftover the residual w waters right to the water streams. May ok. So, you guys, then what do you think it will take to get this message to the masses . I mean, its great that people are coming into your store asking questions, but these are people who are already are aware. Juan yeah. May what about the totally unaware . What do you think needs to be done . Juan yeah, i thinki think the message and information, you know, be getting o out there little by little, and maybe notmaybe faster a little because now with social media and howall the way from like a show like this that its watched by millions of people, and so, messages now, theyit takes very fast to spread. May thats correct. And, juan . Or, fernando, sorry. Fernando it has become such a Current Issue and the problem that were facing and the pollution environment. I guess, in every aspect of what we do, our footprint of humans in this world, it has to be considered and people are aware. Its today and everybody is talking about it. So i its up toits up to us, the companies and people who are making things, to give an example and to communicate how business can be better for the world and environment, for the people, for everybody. May and thats true. It has to make business sense, too, right . You cant just do it for charity sometimes. Juan yeah. May sometimes, 100 charity is great, but also when it comes to a business, you have to make it work. Juan it has to. May it has to make sense. Fernando it has to work, yes. And the process ofwhen youre innovating in anything, the process of making business sense, its probably gonna be different to the type of businesses that arethat have already a formula. So, thats a process and thatsmaybe the growth curve, its slower, but its necessary. May as long as its going in the right didirection. Juan yeyeah, and also is basically, we neneed towe need to stop thinking that the only reason we need to wake up and live for is to make money. I ththink everythingi think k s where you start. May yeah, yeah. Juan no . I think we need to wake up and live, like, to help each other. And if you help each other well and you solve problems, well, the e money wiwl come. But the reason to make money, that shouldntthat shouldntthat shouldnt control it. That shouldnt be the motive of ourof our humanity anymore. May i love that motto. Thank you so much for sharing that. And, juan and fernando, thank you so much for coming in and telling us all about your business. I think its a fantastic thing youre doing. Juan thank you so much for inviting us. May good luck to you. And ill come by your store. Fernando perfect. Juan yeah, thank you very much. May well, coming up next, solar power is still a relatively new technology, but its already being reinnovated in clever ways w with impressive results. Well be right back. May according to the u. S. Department of energy, the demand for electricity in the United States alone will rise by a whopping 40 by 2032. Now, the result in increase in Carbon Emissions will post economic and environmental threats. Fortunately, one Company Seems to have come up with an innovative way to produce this muchneeded power with the help of the sun. John conklin is president of solarwindow technologies, where a first ever Electricity Generating product is about to transform the worlds windows into powerful conductors that generate electricity 50 times more efficiently than rooftop solar panenels. Harnessising the suns power using the existing surfaces of structures, we may soon see a time where skyscrapers and residential high rises offset their power needs by simply generating their own and even banking energy. Joining us now from new york to tell us more about this new twist on solar energy is john conklin. John, welcome to full frame. Good to have you here. John thank you very much. Well, john, this is really, really actually very exciting stuff. The technology is Pretty Amazing. Tell me first how your technology differs from traditional solar panels. John well, solarwindow technologigies is a clean energy company. Think of taking a piece of glass, generating electricity on that glass, and putting that Electricity Generating glass on tall towers and skyscrapers to offset meaningful energy that those buildings demand. Thats what we do. May ok. Well, all right. Theres one terminology that is sort of very scientific. So i need to ask you to explain what this means. Its called photovoltaic. Is that correct . John yes, it is. May tell me in laymans terms what that means, because this is integral part of this technology, right . John yes, it is. Photovoltaic really has two root words. Photo, meaning light and voltaic, meaning electricity. So what we do is we take lightht energy and generate electricity on solarwindow. May ok. Now, you say that your technology is 50 more powerful than the normal solar panel technology. Why is that . How does it actually work . John acres of glass is the best way to look at it. When were looking at a tall tower or skyscraper, were looking at all sides of that building. And, for example, a 50story building has nearly 6 acres of glass. So, when we look at putting solarwindow on 6 acres of glass versus the really tiny footprint on the roof for pv or solar panels, then we have a tremendous ability to generate energy for that building, but more importantly, 6 acres of glass is a lot easier to put solarwindow on than taking up the valuable 6 acres of land that in most cities, like new york, would be very difficult. So, if you can imagine one 50story building taking up 6 acres of land of central park, it wouldnt take very long for a few skyscrapers to use up all that beautiful space. May right. John so, were using all that acres of glass, were not using all the acres of land. May no, youre right, john. I mean, it would be impossible to do this in a big city y because there would be no space for it. So the idea of using existing structures, thats whats so phenomenal to me. Now, tell me if im right about this, the flat glass industry, overall, is a hundred billion dollars, is that right . John yes, thats correct. May so were talking about a Huge Industry already that covers all of these skyscrapers around the world. And so if we should do that in the u. S. Alone, i mean, what are we talking about here . What kind of business are we talking about here . John the markrket potential is huge. Not only is it a hundred billion dollar business. In the United States alone, theres over 400 million square feet of glass in commercial buildings. And thats s also in taking t to consideration the over 5 million commercial buildings in the United States alone. So when we look at the ability of one single 50story building to offset meaningful energy for a building that currently doesnt have an option to do so, think of all those 5 million buildings that will have an option to generate their own electricity. May im wondering, john, why hasnt anyone thought of this before . Because, i mean, obviously, i wouldve never thought of this, and the average person wouldve never thought of this, but its Pretty Amazing. You know, everybody thought about just rooftop, but the fact that you came up with the concept of covering an entire building. John yeah. And really, solarwindow is a technology thats being developed for windows. Were not a technology thats being developed for some other application, and then, as an afterthought, lets try to put it on window glass. Since its inception, the whole concept has been talall towers and skyscrapers utilizing that vast space. But more importantly, when we look at those buildings, we want to be able to maintain the beauty of a window while making it architecturally pleasing, which hascomes in our colors. Those colors have tints that we can increase, make them darker, more transparency. That way, that gives us the ability to put this on a skyscraper and maintain the architectural beauty that these architects and the Building Developers and owners are heavily sought after. May and that, john, actually, i think, is really crucial, isnt it, for this to work . Oftentimes in the past, solar panels, people complained about them because they werent aesthetically pleasing. They didnt look very good on a rooftop house, so people chose not to go with that. In this case, when i was watching some of the video, you cant even tell that this glass is on the building, right . John thats key. Transparency is an important factor. Just imagine sitting in your office looking out the window at that beautiful city cape and just thinking of that window as thats the ordinary window that youve know all your life. Its a passive window, but now were taking that passive window and making it generate electricity. And you cant see the electricity being generated, but you still maintain that beauty. And now that window is active, producing power for your office fixtures, for building fixtures, and other functions in the building. May right, right. Got it. Thats whats, i think, is amazing about this technology. But lets s talk about cost, jo, because as i mentioned before, solar panels in the past, one of the other deterrents was that they were expensive and they wouldnt get their payback in Something Like 5 to 7 years. What about your technology . Whats the investment and then whats the payback . John right. Based on our proprietary power and financial modeling, using data that weve received for testing our modules at the United States department of e energy, nationanal renewabe energy laboratory, we took the power from those tests, modeled it in our proprietary model and we show less than one year financial payback on a 50story building. And the beauty of that is its not just that economic incentive. Its got to go beyond that. First is its manufacturability. Easy to manufacture, its liquid. The other aspect of this is the cost. We need to keep the cost in such a line that it allows us to go those to those tall towers and skyscrapapers. But more importantly, its also the environmental benefit. Were looking at 15 times the environmental benefit when compared to those same solar panels on that building, which is huge considering the importance of us controlling Greenhouse Gas emissions. May well, i was just going to ask you about that, because let me just throw out some figures for you. 70 of all electricity relies on fossil fuels and 85 of u. S. Greenhouse gas emissions come from those fossil fuels. So what kind of savings are we talking about when it comes to using your technology versus, you know, traditional utilities . John that offset is tremendous and extremely important. When were looking at Greenhouse Gas emissions, we can open this up a little bit, talk about carbon footprint. We can talk about the economic incentives, but when we look at it, for example, that 50story building has the potential to offset 2. 2 million miles of vehicle emissions. Thats a huge number. When we look at that small rooftop space, where that pv is up on that small rooftop, thats the equivalent of about a 176,000 miles. So 2. 2 milemillion miles from a vehicle is tremendous when looking at one single skyscraper. May thats one building. So that is incredible if you multiple that by hundreds. Heres a question. What about china . You know, we all know that china has a huge Greenhouse Gas emissions problem. The pollution is reaching crisis levels over there. So, is this something that youd like to introduce to china . Because, again, also theres tremendous number of skyscrapers in china all over that country and they continue to build more. The potential could be huge over there, right . John our Market Strategy is global. We feel that this technology can be put in geographic locations to help a world cause of controlling greeeenhouse gas emissions, ultimately a affecting climate d climate change. So as we look at this technology, we see this as a global application having a positive favorable impact on Greenhouse Gas emissions. May and, john, i should ask you, is this already being used or is this still being introduced to various Developers Just to see what the reaction is at this point . John yeah. Our launch is next year. So were looking at the end of next year. And this launch is predicated on a couple very important prerequisites. First is some important strategic industrial partners. Thats key to us. Theyve got the ability to hit those global markets. Second is raising additional capital. We are in the process of raising capital as this interview is being conducted. But more importantly, to bring it back into perspectives. Theres people like bill gates, warren buffett, elon musk of tesla. We are in Great Company of some of the worlds most Energy Advocates and innovators. Were using some of the brightest minds in the development of our technology and some of the most Creative Minds in finance to help capitalize this technology ultimately to build solarwindow, which may be perhaps one of the greatest single innovations in clean energy history. May i dont think thats an understatement, john, because of what ive seen and what ive heard from you. So, i bet the response from others has been the s same, excitement, thrilled that this is being introduced. John oh, the excitement has been tremendous. And this is not just from the architects, building owners, and developer perspective. The excitement goes into the glass industry. Keep in mind that this is one of the greatest innovations to the glass industry in over half a century. So the glass industry has just looked at this as fantastic, but we also need to look at it from the perspective of the chemical industry. Our technology is chemistry. Its chemistry in the making, chemistry making electricity. So theres Many Industries that have brought this with great excitement and were excited to be innovating. May and do you think, john, that this is going to change the world in terms of the way people build, but also more importantly, the environment . John well, we certaininly hope so. We have put tremendous effort into solarwindow. We have tremendous outreach. We truly enjoy working with some of our Strategic Partners in some of our discussions. And all of that is the planning for a Clean Energy Technology like solarwindow on a global outreach to help in a global perspective. May well, john, it was a pleasure talking to you and hearing all about your company, and the technology is Pretty Amazing stuff. So congratulations to you. John thank you so much. May all right. Well be right back with a look at a raging debate about Sustainability Solutions in our food supply. May the worlds oceans, lakes, and rivers are feeling the strain of overfishing. Dwindling supplies of some fish species have led to a rise in aquaculture, or the farming of fish and plants. So o whats the difference between fish and aquatic plants raised on a farm and those caught or grown in the wild . And is one really better than the other . Full frames mike walter dives deeper into this debate in portland, maine. Mike just before sunrise. Matt yeah. Today were harvesting. Were gonna do about a half a ton of mussels, just a little harvest today. Mike they leave the city far behind. Matt moretti and his crew head out to their crops i n the casco bay, just off the coast of portland, maine. Matt we harvest year round. Were going about twice a week right now. Mike but instead of using a tractor on this 3acre farm, theyll use their hands, slowly easing up ropes that dangle high above the ocean floor. Matt the mussels are suspended off the bottom, so theres a bunch of predators in the bottom like crabs and starfish, lobsters that love to eat mussels. Mike these are bangs Island Mussels. Matt bangs Island Mussels areits our brand of farmraised mussels that we grow here in casco bay. They are started in the wild and finished by us. Mike while these farmraised mussels are similar to those caught in the wild, there are differences. Matt theres practically no grits or pearls in the mussels, which you do find in wild mussels sometimes, but a lot more meat per mussel. So the meat inside the shell is gonna be bigger. I think its gonna be sweeter and have better flavor. There are known pretty much throughout the nation as really high quality, excellent mussels. Mike farming seafood in a controlled setting as opposed to harvesting catch from the sea is known as aquaculture. The practice accounts for roughly half of the seafood production around ththe globe. China, by far, is s the largest producer. Whe e experts say theres little taste difference between the two, and nutritionally theyre very similar, there is debate over whether wild caught or farmraised is better for the environment. When it comes to traditional fishing, the question becomes, it is sustainable or destructive . Gary the only way we gonna have a sustainable seafood industry in the united s statess by the addition of aquaculture. It will never happen again by all wild stocks. We will a alwas rely on other countries to produce our seafood if we dont produce it ourselves. Mike former commercial fishing lobsterman gary moretti now coowns bangs Island Mussels with his son matthew. Gary says because the worlds fish stocks are strained, the production of farmraised seafood, like his mussels, will only increase. Gary this is a possibility of growing the highest level protein with the least impact to the environmnment, and we dont have a choice anymore. Mike but not all aquacultures are good. Some have had a negative impact on the environment. In n the case f shrimp farming, its development in the 1980s destroyed widespread areas of mangrove forest and caused coastal deterioration because of waste. Its an issue u. S. Aquaculture expert michael rubino, a former shrimp farmer, is concerned about. Michael weve learned a lot in the past 2 20 or 30 years about what t to do and what not to doo that we can avoid negative issues and focus on the positive. So in the u. S. Now, a and in some other countries, we have what i i migt call smart aquaculture with the Fishing Technology where there isnt any waste and where weve got informed regulations, good regulations, that both allow the aquaculture industry to expand, but also protects our environment and allow us for healalthy oceansns. Mike exexperts say with wild fh catches stagnant across the globe and the worlds growing population eating more and more seafood, expect the gap to be filled with farmraised options. Michael but the market is so huge and the demand for seafood is so important that we neneed o complement that wild catch with responsible and sustainable aquaculture. Mike aquaculture that when carefully managed can feed billions of people and keep the worlds waters healthy. For full frame, this is mike walter. May and that is it for this week. Join the conversation with us on social media. We are cctvamerica on twitter, facebook, anand youtube. And now you can watch full frame on our new mobile app available worldwide on any smart phone for free. Get the latest news, headlines, and connect to us on facebook, twitter, youtube, and weibo. Search cctv america on your app store to download today. All of our interviews can still also be found online at cctvamerica. Com. And let us know what youd like us to take full frame next. Simply email us at fullframe cctvamerica. Com. Until then, im m may lee in los angeles. Weell see youou next time. 2 du i hope you will join me for an exciting new w televisi series, aa unique inquiry into human consciciousness itselelf. In thesese programs, we are tryg to conveyy an experience, a sene of feeling it rather than just talking about it. We join our trusted guide and host Phil Cousineau on a most memorable episode of global spirit