Connection with violence by russian fans during a match against england at euro 2016. And now the ban on russian athletes. Some Russian Sports officials are suspected of encouraging doping or at least covering it up. Many russians say the treatment is unfair and they feel the country is being singled out. How widespread is doping in Russian Sports . Thats what we want to talk about on quadriga with three guests following the story closely. It is a pleasure to welcome our guest who covers germany for the russian newspaper. She says collectively punishing all russian track and field athletes without individual proof of guilt would be very wrong and only deepens the divide between russia and the west. We have the reporter who is an author of an acclaimed seer oins doping. He says the doping crisis utterly discredits sport. Russia is an egregious example but other countries are just lucky no onone hass checkcked om so far. And the political commentator or the newspaper says doping corruption and hooliganism are roblems that go beyond russia. A warm welcome to all of you. You say a blanket ban is wrong but the decision was unanimous and in fact gave russia plenty of time to react. Russia had six months to clean up a clearly tainted system of checks and balances. Now i know that you were a runner in earlier years. You did also compete if you look back on that time wouldnt you say that for an athlete it is nearly impossible to go into a race against others where you dont know whether the entire system theyre working within might tolerate doping . There is plenty of time the olympics. The committee has said russia is uilty of doping. I think it is probably true that some have taken doping but i ont know this measure is very profitable for the rest of the athletic world. It was your film in fact that exposed doping corruption in russia and thereby trig led the waas investigation. Would you say the ban were now seeing is the right way to get a grip on the problem . I think in a federation the Russian Federation is obviously part of the system and in terms of dope org supporting doping then you dont have any other chance because of the credibility of the whole federation is failing. What can you do . You cannot trust the athletes. It is not the fault of the atathletes but the federation. What you can do is not guarantee a level Playing Field for the olympicscs. So i think thehe only real possible decision was to say we have to suspend a Russian Federationon which means we hav also to exclude russian athletes from the olympics. The International Olympic committee itself is not always the most upstanding organization around. How fair is it that it now turns on russia after having awarded russia the Winter Olympics in 2014 which now appear to have also been a scene of massive doping on russias part . To what extent is the ioc here omehow indirectly complicit . Well, that is a difficult question for which you would have to have more knowledge than i think any of us here has. The ioc is known to be corrupt. Actually in its very highest excellence theyve admitted such. I think we need to look very carefully at the awarding of the Olympic Games in the past and in the future. I think we need to ask ourselves a lot of questions in that respect but not the question whether, you please, oh, we know there are probably doctorsome of them were corrupt. We think the whole system is probably more corrupt than we know so therefore they cant make any decisions on things which we know about like doping which they have found out which people like this have found out and proven. This would be just throwing your hands up in the air and saying let them go to it. Which is a position you can take if you like. But then it means that the biggest criminals get the biggest prizes. A very good be outcome. Which takes me back to my opening question whether we can still talk about sport in the presence of what is said to be systematic doping. Let us take a brief look at how widespread doping appears to be in russia. Lets hear what the iaaf had to say. Because the system in russia doping from ted by the top level down, we cannot trust that what we call, and people might call clean athletes really are clean. It is a difficult task but the systematic doping that has been ongoing in russia is difficulul to pick the clean athletes. Of course that is unjust and unfair. One of the universally recognized principles of law is that responsibility should always be personified. If some members of your family committed a crime, should all family members be held liable including you, personally . We just heard there the statement by the iaa world athletics governing body saying the system is tainted from the top down in russia and referring to a very deep culture of tolerance for doping. Would you say thats true, and if so, do russians simply see this in a way thats different, perhaps, from any of us in the west . I have heard nothing about the tolerance of a russian state. Its only information off western journalists and the they are is only one its country that will make guilty of theirrussia because mode probably on the time to its onlya guilty and one country that cant answer probably. You of course were among those western journalists just referred to. As i said, your film, your series put this matter on the table and provided a lot of evidence that was the basis for the investigation. The Opening Statement saiaid russia was an egregious example. Weve just heard anna rosa s sa russia is being singled out and in fact everybody does it. It is true that everybody does it. The problem is to which extent . If it is state supported at least that makes a difference. We had the same problem in germany 30 years ago. East germany. A really huge, systematic doping. State supported, state run system. There is no doubt. Up, it has further to be done and now we have a similar situation with russia. It is really important to point the finger on that andnd to say this cannot be accepted in the world of sports. If you want to have a level Playing Field we have to single out sports or countries. We have to name them. Otherwise the olympics are tainted and you will have results no one can believe in. And the problem is, she is right when she says this also happens in other countries. But, again, the difference is it is not so huge, not so widespread, and what is also important is that we dont have proof. If you have proroof you can wor on it. If you dont have proof there is no proof that russia has doping. We talk about two Different Things and we shouldnt distract from the facts. I tell you, clearly, now, that we dont talk about staterun doping. We talk about the reason for the suspension of the Russian Federation. Can i continue please . Thanank you. And it is clearly s sad and prudent becausese the World Antidoping Agency has all t the evididence. Every single proof checked. In full length. No doubt. For this reason the Russian Federation has been suspended. Only for this reason. Not because of staterun doping. Because of the proof they have. And i dont know what we are discussing. Can you give us just a couple amples perhaps how you in your film with regard to say the complicity or active involvement by coaches or possibly political officials . For example coaches that have said they are not woworking anymore in the public domain, not with athletes working anymore, a Russian Sportsman, acclaimed claimed in an interview with me in moscow a few weeks ago said really the most infamous coach in russian not working anymore. We find them with athletes in the forest somewhere hidden in a forest. Excuse me. They dont do what they promise to do and what they pretend to do. That makes it complicated. This has been proven from other organizations. As a journalist, this is an nder statement that you do now and its not proven. It is proven and checked by the International Athletic federation. What is the difference if it has been proven . Give me an answer on that. There is not prove that it is not a concern for russia being singled out in the competition. So great competition and olympics. Its only two cases that you have investigated and singled out from the picture of russias part. Weve seen widespread doping for example among cyclists in europe and also in the u. S. Are we ultimately talking here about differences in degree rather than in kind . No. I dont think so. With cycling you might have a point. What has been shown with regard to russia are not only in athletics but in football, too, in weight lifting weve seen it firstly, is that, the federation which runs the sport actively promotes doping. This federation is totally controlled by the state. Whichate uses the results the athletes gained through unfair means in order to promote its own status. So it is a circular thing. If, you know, mr. Putin was saying, should you youre in a family. You dont all get punished as a black sheep. He is right. The point is the main black sheep is sitting at the top of the russian state, mr. Putin, himself, who runs the media, whose cronies sit in the chief of the football federation, whose cronies sit in all of these federations and who use what their athletes do to further their own ambition. This is why they have to hit them because it is going to hurt them. It is also going to hurt the athletes. It is not people like the western media who are responsible for that. The people who do these things who are responsible. You shouldnt blame individuals. You shouldnt blame athletes. We should blame the people who are in charge of them who are supporting and forcing them to do that. I know ththat fromm germany, ea germany, ive read books and documentaries about the east german doping system. Athletes have been forced by the coaches, by doctors to use forbidden substances. It is a crime. You mentioned there is still some time until the rio olympics. The i. O. C. Is now saying there might be a possibility for individual athletes from the russian track and field team to have individual testing done and if they can prove theyre clean they still might be able to compete. Does that go far enough to remove what you see as scapegoating and singling out russia . Yes. Its enough. I think so. Sportsmen other ve prepared for olympics anand and sts have been made they are now clean and nobody knows that they are clean and they are excluded from t this competition. And so i dont think that probably to take the teststs in this short period before the olympics and prove if they are really clean or not. What do you think . Is this a workable solution or compromise that the i. O. C. Has come up with . And should at any rate one person definitely be allowed to compete mainly the whistle blower who is seen in your film . We have to make it very clear here they y dont talk about people who can prove that they are clean. That is not correct. Because if you have a tainted system then you have a problem to bleeve people that arare reay clean. No positive test doesnt mean automatically you are clean in that kind of system. That is the first point. I. O. C. D point is the confirmed that under certain circumstances athletes who are living abroad who are not part of the russian s sports system d not part of the russian doping control system, for years, they can ask for eligibility for t t games in rio under certain circrcumstances s as i said andt is interesting that there might be a back door open for her because she is living abroad, has all her testing in the United States and germany. She is not part of the system anymore. There might be a kind of loop hole or back door to get in but that is one thing. The other thing is if the i. O. C. , whether the i. O. C. Really wants that. Just imagine the political situation in rio that you have in track and field. , a russian, but the whole team is excluded. That means from a political an pective it would be such embarrassing moment. I think the i. O. C. Twoonts avoid that problem. I am not very optimistic shell be allowed to compete. Meanwhile, a sports minister in russia is saying that after the i. O. C. Meeting this week we will do everything ththe i. O. C. S asking. What do you think exactly that given the fact this is the same sports minister we saw in the film apparently covering up a doping situation, directly involved . I t trust him at the first a second i think there are russian athletes excluded from the olympics, itss a great loss fo the sports. It is a great loss for the olympic committee. Dont know if the american sportsmen, the chinese sportsmen have not been docked and they laugh about this. You dont have proof. You just claim. I dont know. You say they i am very sorry. You say this. No. I said there are proofs. There are proofs. No more. Your statement. Let us take a brief look at another issue which has also been tarnishing the image of russias sportsmen and their fans. Last week russia was threatened with exclusion from the european soccer championships after russian hoolgans turned violent before and during a match in marcia. Here, too, there appear to be indications of political contact and complicity. Lets take a look. Violence on the streets of marseilles. N apparently spontaneous riot. But some british claim the attacks by russian hooligans were by no means random but were organized in advance with support from Russian Politicians and sports officials. Why would hooligans who were known to the Russian Police be given permission to leave the country and attend tournament . Why were they let on charter flights to and from france without any Police Interference . Afterward the Deputy Speaker of the Russian Parliament tweeted, well done, lads. Keep up the good work. He said these young men had efended their countrys honor. Are the russian hoolgans directed by state authorities . If so, what was russia hoping to achieve . Let us think back to the remarks by Vladimir Putin we heard a bit earlier in the program. He talked about the plitization of sports and scapegoating of russia. The fact is as you said in your Opening Statement doping is widespread not only in russia. So is hooliganism. Given the fact that eastwest tensions are quite high and we need russia to solve Important International issues like iran, like syria, is it perhaps time to back down a bit on all of the russia bashing . No one is bashing russia. I didnt see your the clip we just said as bashing russia. Look. As a brit, hooliganism, i am not defending doctorwe have a tarnished record ourselves as great britain. I dont think you ever saw a british cabinet minister or minister responsible standing up and saying, well done, lads. Youve defended britains honor. Its always been this is a disgrace. Theres been bans on british hooligans attending matches and so on from the british state. The point is that hooliganism is the principle of russian polititics. That is why of course they feel that what, you know, i dont think russian hooligans in france are worse than what mr. Putin is doing in the ukraine quite frankly. If that is your idea of politics, that anything goes in the interests of greater russia, then, you know, how can the west deal with that to say oh, yes, okay. Put that behind us here. We cant. We have to call a spade a spade, a hooligan a hooligan and political aggression political aggression. What can we do . And it was among the hooligans expelled from france with the head of russias fan association. In the 1990s a leading member of the russian neo nazi scene known to have extensive ties to russia and politicians including the man we just saw in that report, the legislator. Clearly, again, a political tolerance at least for hooliganism. It is not understood that he is known to have ties with the neo nazi scene in russia. But what, a proof of what . Proof that apparently there is political complicity in the kind of hooliganism that we saw. Is it political . Is it organized from the state . Yes, in the legislature, in the do you meana, and as we saw in the report he actually praised the hooligans. H he is a member of one part, liberal party, very nationalist party. And it is not the state. I would like to say also david camemeron hasnt said, i am ver disappointed in our english fans and nobody has said cameron has not said that he is very isappointed at niece events in marseilles. Putin has said he iss disappointed. Is this not bashing of russia . He also seemed to have a certain pride in the fact that only 200 russian hooligans were able to attack nearly 2,000 english fans. What can we expect at the world soccer championships that will be held in 2 2018 in russia . Will you expect a lot of fans to think twice about making the trip and should fifa perhaps be thinking twice about whether the championship should be held in russia . I dont think that is the right step. I think if there is legal proro forr statete systematic interference in sports affairs, doping for an e example, we hav to consider that. Hooligans, i agree this is not a problem with russia and you can be sure in 2018 the russian authorities will do everything to avoid any detriment to russia so the problem wont be moving on to 2018. Thanks for being with us and thanks to you for tuning in. See you soon. 8uxunndqwueeex host this week, global 3000 heads to mumbai in india. 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