Are reported since the gang rape of a woman on a bus shocked the world in december of 2012. Women are being oppressed, subjected to genital mutilation, sentenced to death by stoning. In many places, they are considered near possessions as fathers of the fathers, husbands, and brothers. Why do women not have the same rights as men . Your host this week, melinda crane. Hello and welcome to quadriga. Became themalalal youngest person ever to receive a nobel peace prize. She nearly paid with her life for insisting as a girl, im ok going to school. What is genderbased violence so prevalent . That is what we want to talk about today with three women who are following the situation of women in regions around the world. It is a pleasure to welcome martina sombra. She has worked as a journalist in the middle east and north africa for more than 20 years. She primarily covers migration and human rights. Our next guest is a professor at the university of southern denmark. She is of polish origin. A pleasure to have catherine bluff with us. She is a Research Associate at the global Apollo Public policy institute. She is a Public International lawyer and has worked in the area of genderbased violence in both germany and latin america. I would like to start out with a quick tour and ask each of you to give us a snapshot of the situations of women in the regions that you know best. I will start in the middle east with you, martina. Certainly, it is the region that malala comes from, and it has produced many graphic images recently of genderbased violence. Give us a picture. The region are usually working is the socalled arab world, north africa and the middle east. I think it is important to mention that there are big differences when it comes to talking about women between these countries. The media is by far the most progressive country, a legal situation where women are almost legal. They are very free. They have chances in the labor market to work. Whereher is saudi arabia women are not even allowed to drive a car themselves. There is a huge difference already within the arab world. Issues at stake are patriarchal mentalities, which are prevalent not only with men, but also with women. They pass on these mentalities through generation. In many arab countries, not all of them, and there are discussions in Different Countries like morocco and others, in many arab countries, islence against women sanctioned by the law. The most recent department, the abduction of a great number of yazidi women in syria and iraq. We want to come back to that in just a moment. I would like to ask catherine about east and central europe. Eastern europe, there are a lot of differences. When we analyze and go deeper, there are a lot of similarities. For example, russia. It is equal when we are talking about labor markets, when we are talking about women working all places and present at universities. During the communist step, the status of women was equal to citizens men citizens. In comparison to western europe, it is not really equal. It is the same as martina mentioned. Women should be pretty and should be present in the society but should not really do it at the same level as the men. Ordinary people, they say, yes, russian women, they are really equal, and we would like to have the same status as russian women. They are allowed to go in public and to be pretty and to be present. This is what is not possible in azerbaijan. We are very focused on violence. What about the prevalence of genderbased violence in central and eastern via Europe Eastern Europe . It is different from what martina described. As we talk about violence in Eastern Europe, it is present when we talk about prostitution, for example. In both regions between poland and germany, germany and the czech republic, poland and womene, we have a lot of. Ho work as prostitutes have prostitution. This is not the case in Eastern Europe. We have prostitution, and we have violence. Thank you very much. We will come back to some of the issues you raised. Lets continue to latin america. Area, inworked in this both places. Give us a snapshot. After listening to both of you and the experiences you shared, there are many parallels, which shows this is a structural and global problem. Yet the manifestations are different. Inn i walk the streets berlin, i feel more or less safe. Yet i do get comments, i do get harassment, and i do have to look at some any sexualized women and advertisements and newspapers. When i think of latin america, i had a very similar feeling in urban areas where i felt like my physical integrity in public [indiscernible] ,hen i moved to rural areas there are very different manifestations. To give a crude example, one that touched me very much, the case of Indigenous Women being raped who then have to marry the rappist. Even though the numbers arent that different, 35 in germany, up to 70 in rural peru, the manifestations are very different. Weve got a couple of snapshots of our own, starting with one story that made the headlines this year, namely that zidi women who were coerced and objective. In propaganda videos like this one, isis jihadists talk about slave market and serial rate. They revealed an official pricelist for women. Women related what they went through in syria. There were 130 of us in a single house. They bought and sold us. I just wanted to die. Those men raped our bodies and souls. My heart is dead. We lost everything. Many Young Mothers were abducted. The isis man threatened to kill our children if we didnt go with them. What could we do . Another genderbased of production that shook the world this year, schoolgirls kidnapped by boko haram. Than 200il, more mostly christian schoolgirls were kidnapped in the northeast of nigeria by islamist militants boko haram. Calls for action came from around the world. Americas first lady was one of those to express for support online. Eight months later, some 50 have escaped, but the majority remain in captivity after having been forced to convert to islam. Haram has conducted a Violent Campaign to establish an islamic caliphate in nigeria. Thousands of lives have been lost. Unconfirmed local reports state that some of the girls have been sold into slavery as forced wives. Cap karen, lets talk briefly about the consequences of that kind of violence. I know you have worked in that area. One of the yazidi women said, i basically want to die. Those men raped our bodies and souls. Do the experiences mark women forever . Of course, they mark women forever, and they mark their whole societies. Women are attributed a certain role in society just as men are, but men are supposed to protect these women, especially in more traditional societies. This is why they are used as objects of war rather than subjects. As a consequence, this affects People Society because the victors will have claims that the men could not protect their women. I would like to point out one thing. I think we need to be careful when we talk about the dignity having been destroyed. In my opinion, it is the rapist who has the lack of dignity. I think we need to reinforce that image. It is the rapists fault. Certainly, that would seem to , butterly correct subjectively of course, there are deep scars. The who says that violence against women is a Major Public Health problem. It is a Major Public Health problem. It affects not only the women. It affects women physically. It affects women psychologically. Also, it affects the entire families. It affects the children, the husbands. It destroys the entire social fabric, especially violence and rape. It is a weapon of war. It is a cheap weapon of war, and it is really meant to destroy the social fabric. In the specific context of is, there is another side to it. It helps to recruit men. Lust not really the sexual that is behind these mass rapes, but in this case, i would say that there is a side to it that foreign fighters are being attracted by telling them that this part of the loot is yours. The main aim is to send a message to the enemy that, you are not able to protect your women. You are a loser. We are able to take them. Messagea very important. It doesnt cost anything. It doesnt need ammunition. If i can just bring in the link between genderbased violence and conflict you have something you wanted to add. Perhaps with staying with the question of consequences if the consequences are so great, if this is a Public Health issue, why is it that societies dont see it in their interest to correct the problem . After all, women are potentially 50 of the workforce. Sure. This is a very important issue. This is not only for politicians and scholars who have to understand this. People in society, societys in transition talking about Eastern Europe, its been a transition. We have to understand that it has not been so easy in my years. I have visited more than 50 countries. Many are from Eastern Europe and pakistan and other countries, so when we talk about and thel systems we startf democracy, talking about a problem. Students agree with this role of women that is not really equal. They explained to me, no, women should stay at home. They should really be help for the men. Ive noticed i have to start from the beginning from the development of democracy to make people understand things. Its not so easy. Many of those victims that we it, butt really want they havent had the experience of being really equal and free. This is what we have to learn. I agree with you. This is not the problem of victims. Is problem of we want to underline the border between women in the position of victims and men in the position aggressors. I agree, we should be careful. She just mentioned societies in transition. Societies in conflict, of course, are in a form of transition. What is going on there that creates this link to genderbased violence . Suggest that looking at it as structural violence again is what helps us analyze the problem and find solutions. Is we have by that to look at how colonialism and the introduction of capitalism in certain societies reinforces. R changes gender roles latin america, we have a multilayered aspect of patriarchy, of which easement. Machismo. Hismo, which is western patriarchy. Achismor the old m system, was there is much genderbased violence, or is it a function of the transition from old to new, or the uncertainty of men about their new roles . Conflict definitely aggravates the problem, but i think we have to be very careful and appoint to much towards others but also look at what is going on in our own countries. Women being raped in europe. In the european union, theres not much in transition. We have to start looking at what is happening in our societies. If i look at the w agilysys statistics on genderbased question there is no that some regions have much higher incidence than others. The number one is the middle east and the mediterranean , as the w h it, including africa. 37 of women say theyve been assaulted by their partners. We are talking about Domestic Violence. If i look at those two films we saw, the yazidi women, the boko haram schoolgirls, the common denominator is conflict but also islam. Conflicts,e also huge conflicts where islam doesnt play that much of a role. Hundreds of thousands of women have been raped during the last year, and islam is not there, except for some courageous women, like lauren wolfe. She goes there regularly and reports. The congo is huge. There is a real health problem, as well. As you rightly say, there is a big problem with Domestic Violence. The figures are not much lower than the west and europe. The point is, genderbased violence becomes a real problem when it is being tolerated. There, for example is research on genderbased lence [no audio] issuemeans that one big is the attitude. Do i allow for this . Do i push morals away, push them aside . This also goes for Domestic Violence. If the society tolerates this kind of violence, which is the case in many patriarchal societies, and at the same time, does not have a Legal Framework that allows them to go to court, then to the police, Domestic Violence is much more prevalent. Perhaps it is not so surprising if we see a correlation with islamic societies. Entrenched in quite in those societies . I am hesitant to make this intrinsic link between islam and violence against women. We have violence against women and all monotheistic religions. Hinduism, for example, is very patriarchal. Jainism is very misogynist. We find this in all religions. In some respects, islam is even more protective of women. Measures,tection which exist in islamic law, would be applied. You are so right. We sauntering concentrate too much on islam and violence. The connection between religion and violence, or perhaps not only violence, but this patriarchal system. A very long debate, which i found too long. A law was just abolished a few years ago. Its not a question about islam. [laughter] with not agree [indiscernible] catherine, you have written in the past, it is not about islam. It is about patriarchy. When i went to law school, we is not a crimepe of sexuality. It is a crime about power. Would you say that is right . I completely agree. One example that shows that is the example that was previously shown on india. India is a country in which women are getting stronger and stronger. They are more and more empowered , educated. They know employment is very high. Now we see men are scared. Men are scared of women becoming more empowered. Certain men, not all men. We see that there is a power struggle going on. This is why the rape in the public sphere usually, rape happens most in the private sphere, as most Domestic Violence is. I think this illustrates the power struggle going on. If we talk about india, you mentioned earlier the countrycity distinction. In india, in the past year and a half or so, we have seen brutal rape both of right in urban metropolises and rural societies. How do you counter that . My opinion is that we have failed to implement policies that work with boys and men. Europe, we had a very of feminism. You want to add something. It is always present during the war and after war, and for example, after the second world war. Rape was very present. Russian soldiers in occupied berlin. Prague. Aud in all regions. Becausen most cases not it was like who would be the winner. Froms violence against men the other nationality. I would just like to add on urbanoint world versus i think it is not that easy. It is more complicated. There might be more violence in rural areas because there is a lack of education, also a lack of control or accessibility of institutions for women to protect themselves. The same time, different researchers have shed light on the fact that organizations are in favor of genderbased violence because there is much more anonymity. It means you will be protected by the public space. Square in tahrir swuare, they were able to rape women, strip them of their cameras. In the end, they were discovered. Four of them were put on trial. , urban contexts do not make it easier for women. Women. El free to harass rise,ment is on the especially in some arab countries. This is a good time. In india and other countries, womens protests are on the rise. They have all kinds of ideas. They create their own defense mechanisms. Societies in conflict, also any correlation with islam. What about with poverty . What is the link . Poverty i think we tried to create causal links because it is so difficult to understand or grasp the magnitude of this problem. From what ive read and experienced, poverty, alcoholism, unemployment, remoteness, lack of access to justice are all manifestations of fundamental societal problems and are aggravating factors but not causal. A lot ofy with rape, times, the question is, what was she wearing . Was there alcohol . I like when people say, there is one reason for rape. It is the rapist. I think sometimes we need to be a bit more careful about creating causality. When we look for solutions, dont we need to explore causality . Yes, but we need to understand what is causal and what is the reason for the manifestations. Same with rural and urban. Its a problem we experience everywhere, in berlin as well as kosovo. The manifestations are different, and we have to address the manifestations with different solutions. Go ahead. On the other hand, there is this correlation. When you analyze Eastern Europe, thereases, alcohol are no rules. The example i give from Eastern Europe, a border region between germany, poland, the czech this borderd in who dont really have this problem of prostitution and violence. System, a democratic control. A very well developed society. It looks different in Eastern Europe. We dont really have democratic systems. We are still in transition. We arent so rich compared to western european regions. In my opinion, there is this correlation. Briefly. It is important to differentiate. Yes, they are poor. They are under stress. They resort to violence more often. This is clear. What we know from our research is that this is a phenomenon across classes, which means a can beat their wives. A poor woman maybe doesnt have a choice. She cant get out of a relationship. This is where the correlation is. It is structural. It is not by making this women richer or giving her different income that the violence will disappear. The violence will disappear when we create mechanisms and new mentalities and new laws. Lets talk about some solutions now. I would like to return to the story of malala who told the nobel audience that change is coming. 17yearold Malala Yousafzai is the youngest person to ever win a nobel prize. She is also the first pakistani. She shares this years prize with a fellow childrens rights activist. Those attending applauded the recipients for their selfless work. A Prize Committee commended malala for her clear vision and tireless courage. Malala grew up in northern pakistan. From an early age, she spoke out in support of girls writes, g irls rights, but her advocacy nearly lost her life caused her to lose her life. In 2012, taliban boarded her school bus and shot her in the head. Malala was lucky to survive. Malala said that she will. Ontinue fighting for her dream martina, is education a key part of the solution . We know that women who have been better educated tend to have fewer children, have less of a tendency to live in poverty. Would they have less of a tendency to become victims of violence . They can protect themselves better. I think it is important to have these figures, a brave young woman to break the silence, who speaks out loudly. This is the most important thing. It is important to help them. Education is a factor. Education can also create new problems if the men are not with us in the boat. Education makes women stronger. Really a real gender approach, that means men and women are being targeted. Men with their mentalities and women with their mentalities, and men have to be with us in the boat, i think. What kind of measures did you see being put into practice in latin america that you consider to be effective . I know you worked there on genderbased violence. Were any of the Solutions Working well . I think so. Working well is difficult to determine when you work on societal changes. Until youcenturies see results. The program i worked for had three components that consisted of Economic Empowerment, improvement of access to justice, at the same time, creating general public awareness. In that sense, combining efforts, looking at different sectors of society, i think that is what we need to look at. For mee thing malala is a positive image for that. We dont have a lot of young women talking for being heard. We dont have a lot of nonwestern women being heard. I think this is something that we still need to learn before we go in somewhere and listen, not just listen to some prime minister, but listen to women on not as victims but as actors and what they need and want. You worked with Development Organizations on an international level. A who and the u. N. They both recommend Prevention Strategies such as microfinance, which you mentioned, Economic Empowerment, combined with training for boys and girls in communication and relationship skills. How many men would be willing to participate in a program like that . How many boys . That depends a lot on how you go about the whole thing. It is difficult because when you really believe in something, like womens equality where womens rights, you want to go in there and change the world. Sometimes, you just have to take a step back and learn to use other peoples language, learn not to use certain words, learn to adapt to cultural circumstances. I think that can work. We talked some about the importance of rule of law. Its quite interesting for me i was looking at when policies against Domestic Violence were adopted in different regions. In latin america, it can pretty much directly after the 2000s. About 10 years after the iron curtain has fallen, those laws began to be put on the books in eastern and central europe. The big question, they are on the books, but are they being adequately enforced . You are right. They went on the books too late. Is researchoblem and political analysis and whetherecisions they have been accepted by the society. You are so right when you say we have girls who learn about this perspective and other points of view. Again, this example of my students for me, it was so that women and men have to. Have to be equal. It wasnt clear for my students. How do you want to teach about our common values . The public may not agree with your view. It is so fascinating. Her vision, whether it has been ited in her country has been criticized so much by other women. It is so depressing. This is when we start to understand that we have to know other points of view and other understandings before we start western values of democracy and equality. Apparently she is seeing many people as something of a trojan western values, perhaps serving as a mouthpiece for outside interests. What is that about . How can that be changed . That is propaganda that is whog put forward by people condemn western values. This is an excuse. This is a cultural list argument that i do not accept. Have different colors. They may look islam. They may look buddhist. There are certain values like the declaration of human rights and all of the conventions that came after the declaration of. Uman rights her choice is very important, but it may take time to swallow it for many people. Think thats important in so many countries, many things have changed. I used to work not only as a inlist but also for genderbased violence. I had the privilege to witness the unfolding of the Womens Movement in morocco in the 1990s. In 1993, there was a single century where many women were being beaten by their husbands. They are being created by different groups of women in morocco. Development is very important to create protection mechanisms. The rule of law is very important. It is even more important than ballot boxes and elections. The rule of law is crucial, but , Economic Empowerment and protection mechanisms at all levels. The regional levels, lower levels, but also at the u. N. Level. You are a Public International lawyer, and you specialized in the International Legal system that includes treaties. What can we do at that level to help ensure real change . That is probably the most difficult question you can ask an international lawyer. Regional,ational, national, and local law it is a pingpong game. Make have to take the ascension that once we have a treaty, we will reach an impact here. We have to look at every different level with our implementation measures. Fundsmportantly, how many during need, how much money do we need, and who do we have to ask . Who are the people on the ground that need the services we need to provide we want to provide . Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you for being with us today and for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. Thanks to all of you out there for tuning in. Goodbye. Qm . Xq pnnc