Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20160329

340 others were injured. A Splinter Group of the taliban has claimed responsibility. We will speak with author and activist tariq ali. Then as the fbi drops its lawsuit against apple after claiming it successfully hacked into the iphone of one of the San Bernardino shooters, we will speak with fillets are prizewinning journalist Glenn Greenwald about the fight over encryption. Do you think there should be anyway for human beings to communicate without u. S. Government being able to access that . That is the critical question we face. Amy and the state of North Carolina is sued over its sweeping new antigay and antitransgender law. Were asking the court to overturn house bill 2 because it because ittutional, violates the equal protection and due process clauses of the 14th amendment, because it discriminates on the basis of sex and sexual orientation, and because it is an invasion of prprivacy for transgender men ad transgender women. Amy we will go to North Carolina to speak with one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, transgender student Payton Mcgarry as well as chase strangio, staff attorney at the aclu. All that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. The Justice Department announced it has succeeded in unlocking an iphone used by one of the San Bernadino shooting suspects and dropping its attempt to force apple to break into the phone. Legals a highstakes battle, but lisa broader debate over encryption unresolved. The fight between the fbi and apple had grown increasingly contentious as the tech giant refused to help governrnment authorities bypass the security features of its phone. Well have more on the story with pulitzerwinning g journalt Glenn Greenwald later in the broadcast. In North Carolina a the american , Civil Liberties union has filed a lawsuit challenging a sweeping new law banning local governments from passing laws prohibiting discrimination against lgbt people in public accommodations. The law, house bill 2, commonly known as the bathroom bill is widely considered to be the most wideranging antitrans laws to take effect this year. It was introduced after the city of charlotte passed its own ordinance seeking to protect the right of transgender people to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity. Equality North Carolina executive director executive director chris sgro announced the lawsuit. Announce thatto we have filed suit against the state of North Carolina in federal court, in the states middle district. Other plaintiffs join us as well in the suit. Hb two is the most sweeping antilgbt bill in the nation and it will not stand the testst of time or the test a federal court. Amy meanwhile georgia , republican governor nathan deal announced he would veto a socalled religious liberty bill critics said would have allowed discriminanation against lgbtt people. The measure would have allowed faithbased organizations in georgia to deny services and jobs to lgbt people. He had faced pressure to veto the bill from about 500 businesses and the National Football league, which implied georgia might lose its bid to host the superbowl if the measure was enacted. We will have more on the measures in North Carolina and georgia later in the broadcast. A mexican transgender woman and activist who has been living in phoenix, arizona, for more than a decade has been detained by u. S. Immigration authorities and placed in a Mens Detention Center, despite identifying as a woman. Local activists said Nayeli Charolet was given three choices live at a Mens Detention Center or in solitary confinement or in a segregated unit for transgender women. Activists say the segregated unit in santa ana, california, is known for its abuse of transgender women. Women have complained of degrading strip searches by male guards and the denial of hormone therapy and other medical care. Charolet is being held in allmale facilities at the forprofit eloy Detention Center in arizona. A man claiming to be wearing an explosive belt hijacked an egyptair flight and forced it to land in cyprus over what authorities said appeared to be a a personal matteter, not a teterrorisist attack. The flight was en route from the egyptian city of alexandria to cairo when it was diverted to the cypriot port city of larnaca. After negotiations, the alleged hijacker allowed m most of the papassengegers to walk free. He is not reportedly arrested and Authorities Say he wantetedo talk to his s estranged wife in cyprus. In b belgium, a man charged wiwh terrorisism and identified by belgian media as the third bomber in the deadly Brussels Airport bombings last week has been released. Faysal cheffou, described as a citizen journalist, was picked out of a photographic lineup by a cab driver who said he drove the three bombers to the airport. Two of them blew themselves up, the third escaped. Authorities released cheffou saying they lacked evidence monday, against him. They have now released Surveillance Video of the e thid bombing suspect at the airport, seeking help to identify him. In washington, d. C. , police shot a man they say pointed a g gun t them in a screening area in the Visitors Center at the u. S. Capitol. The man, identified as larry dawson of tennessee, was taken to the hospital, as was a female bystander who suffered injuries. Dawson faces charges including assault wiwith a deadly weapon. He is said to be in stable but critical condition. Police say he acted her own alone and have ruled out terrorism, saying there is nono reason to believe that this is anythining more thn a criminal actct. Retired cuban leader fidel castro has published a letter criticizing president obama after obama wrapped up a historic visit to cuba last week. Castro invoked the multiple u. S. Attempts to overthrow and subvert the cuban government, from the bay of pigs invasion to the economic embargo. Saying we dont neneed the him hard to give us anything. Responding to castro, white hohouse press secrcretary josh earnest said his words show obamas visit made an impact. The fact the former president felt compelled to respond so forcefully to the president s visit i think is an indication of the Significant Impact of president obamas visit to cuba. We were quite pleased with the reception he received from the cuban people. Amy the Guardian Newspaper has revealed the cia took nakeked photographs of people it sent to Foreign Countries for torture. The photographs, described by one u. S. Official as very gruesome, were reportedly taken to protect the cia from ramifications if the prisoners werere tortured after being transferrered to f foreign cust. Huhuman rights groroups saidid g naked phphotographs of p psoners nsticotesexual hililiation and could evenen be a wawar cri. California governonor jerry bron has formally announced a deal with lawmakers and Union Leaders to raise the state minimum wage to 15 an hour by 2022. The move avoids a November Ballot measure that would have raised the minimum wage faster. On monday, Governor Brown said california is the first state to take such a step. Among key labor leaders, legislative leaders, and my administration to raise the minimum wage over time to 15 an hour, making california the first state to do that. It is a matter of economic justice. It makes sense, and will help our entire state do much better for its citizens. Amy walmart has won a legal victory against puerto rico after a u. S. Judge struck down a tax puerto rico tried to impose on the retailer. This comes as puerto rico faces a massive 70 billion debt. After mondays ruling, puerto rican governor Alejandro Garcia padilla vowed to appeal, saying tthe judge jusust took away 0 million frfrom the people of puerto rico and gave it to walmart. Argentntinas new righttwing, procorporate government is cutting funding for the regional, spanishlanguage Television Network telesur. Telesur was launched in 2005 by a coalition of leftist governments, Media Outlets and movements, led by venezuela under president hugo chavez. Now the administration of argentine president Mauricio Macri will to dump its nearly 20 stake, citing a lack of influence over financial and editorial decisions. In other media news, the Al Jazeera Media Network has fired about 500 employees, most of them at its headquarters in qatar. This comes after al jazeera announced in january it was shutting down its u. S. Offshoot. Al jazeeraamerica. In wisconsin, six people were arrested while protesting republican p president ial frontrunner donald trump. Dozens occupied the lobby of the Holiday Inn Express in janesville and six of them , locked themselves together with pvc pipe. The protesters demanded holiday inn not be a host for hate. The Hotels Convention center is set to host donald trump at an event totoday. In arizozona, protests erupted inside the legislature during a hearing over last weeks primary voting day, when tens of thousands of people were unable to vote and many waited hours in line. One person was hauled away in handcuffs. Maricopa county recorder Helen Purcell addressed arizona statae lawmwmakers after ththe number f polling places in the county was slashed by 70 from 2012. Purcell apologized for the mayhem that resulted. A as i said, we made somome horrenendous mistakes and d i apologizize for that. I cannot go back and undo it. I wish h but i cannnnot. I can oonly say that we felt we were using thehe best informrman andat we had availablele to us in past history. Amy in one county alone a maricocopa county, there had ben 200 polling places in 2012. It was cut to 60 for this past primary. In news from the financial world, a former top official at the massive private equity firm blackstone group, has been arrested on criminal fraud charges for what u. S. Prosecutors called a brazen scheme to defraud investors of up to 95 million. Andrew caspersen was a partner at the park hill group, which until recently was part of the blackstone group. His father, finn m. W. Caspersen, committed suicide in 2009 while under federal investigation on allegations of concealing millions of dollars in a tax shelter. R. About seven Million People in the United States live in areas at risk of an earthquake induced by human activitity. Thats according g to a newew rt byby the u. S. Geolological surv, which said states including oklahohoma and kansas are now at as h high of a risk as eaearthquakepronene californiaa devastating earthquake. The central United States has seen a spike in seismic activity due to the injection of wastewater from oil and gas drilling deep underground. A record swath of Arctic Sea Ice failed to o freeze over the e wr amid recordshattering heat. The snow and Ice Data Centre said the sea ices maximum expanse this winter was the lowest since Record Keeping began nearly 40 years ago. This comes after nasa announced two new missions to explore the disappearing sea ice in the arctic. Nasa scientist walt meier described the problem. You have probably heard it has been a recordbreaking winter in the globe, but it is been turbocharged in the arctic. Record warmth, to mr. s 15 degrees fahrenheit above normal, and then we have seen the arctic cis that grows in the cold winter, dark winter in the arctic has been growing more slowly because it is so much warmer than normal there and it is covering less of an area than it normally does and it is one of the lowest t weve seen in or satellite recocord goingng back almost 40 yeaars now. Amy and utah has become the first state to reqequire womenen having an aborortion at 20 weeks of pregnancy to receive general anesthesia. The measure signed by republican governor gary herbert is based on the debunked claim that the fetus can feel pain at that stage. Doctors warn the law could force them to anesthetize women who have to have their labor indndud because of problems with their pregnancy. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Pakistan has launched a paramilitary operation following the easter day bombing in the countrys second largest city that killed 72 people, including 29 children. Another 340 were injured. A taliban Splinter Group has claimed responsibility for the attack on a crowded Amusement Park in lahore, the capital of punjab, the countrys richest and most populous province. The attack occurred as members of the minority Christian Community gathered to celebrate easter sunday. A spokesperson for the attackers said they targeted christians, but most of those killed were actually muslim. Eyewitness ikram arif gave a harrowing account of the attacks aftermath. I came here to the park yesterday. I was standing at the park area while parking my motorcycle. My friend was with me. We suddenly heard the sound of an explosion from inside. I parked my bike and range rushed inside. They picked up the injured to move them away from there. I saw bodies with blown up heads and legs and intestines coming out of their abdomen. Many injured people, men, women, children were lying there. I picked up a blown leg of an infant who mustve been about six months old. I still have bloodstains on my leg. I picked up many injured people last night and move them to an ambulance. I was not feeling well after that, and i return home very tired. Just my body was no longer responding. Now i have come to see what the situation is. Pakistansmbing was deadliest since 2014 massacre of 134 school chihildren at a militaryrun academy in Patricia Woertz the crop to the government crackdown on psalmist islamists he. Pledged to crack down. It is been made clear to all concerned departments any patrons or facilitators of terrorist, wherever they may be room whatever disguise they may be hiding, they will not be spareed from the clutches of the law. Amy to talk more about the implications of the lahore bombing, we go to london does the quit tariq ali, the strength of activists, and an editor of the new left review. His most recent book is, the extreme centre a warning. He is also the author of several books on pakistani politics and history. Welcome back to democracy now can you talk about what happened in lahore . Basically, what has been going on in pakistan now for two to three decades is that religious schools have been created in large parts of the country, used as transmission belts, added to that there are camps which are supposedly educational camps for some of these groups which exist in different parts of the country, not just on the afghan border, and it is not a secret that in parts of the countrys largest and most important province economically and pololitically, and the southern part of this province, there have been a number of camps set up by these groups which have not been dealt investigated or investigated seriously by the governments. The Prime Minister of pakistan, nawaz sharif, every time there is a terrorist outbreak, says exactly the same thing this will never happen again, this will not be allowed. He is beginning to sound like e broken record from old times. No one takes him seriously, which is why i think the army and the rangers are moving in to try to see what can be done. But even they face a very difficult task because many, many years ago, during the first afghan war against the russians backed by the United States, all of these groups were created. A whole number of religious schools were set up were the curriculum was very militant in terms of suggesting violence against unbelievers, etc. So what we are now witnessing is the result of all of those dragon seeds that were so no over three decades ago, and which any politicians at the time in the frontier province near afghanistan warned would make pakistan uninhabitable unless something was done. Well, it wasnt done, and we w have another outbreak in lahore. The one thing, amy, which i think it is important to understand, is purely on the logical front, it is utterly grotesque of any group claiming there islim to suggest institutional hostility to christianity within islamic writings. Jesus is one of the most revered of profits in the muslim pantntheon. The only woman mentioned and praised and regarded as oran is mary,the kopra jesus his mother. There are more references to her in the koran than the new testament to show these religions are linked to each other, they believe in the same sok, the old testament, and are logically, there is absolutely nothing to justify this. This is a political assault on the countrys culture. Jihadi,nd create a Islamic Statetype republic. And this Splinter Group has expressed its admiration for the Islamic State or daesh, and regard themselves as its followers in pakistan. So were announcing the internationalization of the conflict that began in iraq and created this group, now attracting others because it carries out these terrorist attacks in the middle east and of course, in paris and in brussels. Parcel of the same problem. Amy so this group, that claimed responsibility, faction of the ttp, what is it . You say it is connected to isis come to the socalled Islamic State . I dont know whether it is connected in a concrete way, but it certainly influenced by isis and regards this group with some admiration because theyre doing things. They dont talk about what theyre doing, but they talked about doing things. It is a form of very strong sunnifundamentalism, which is disregarded and alienates most sunnis in the world, rich regards a particular type of onelam, which is the only except a bowl. The demands of these people when they actually bother to make them is a State Government exclusively by sharia, but sharia has many interpretations. Theres no single interpretation of the sharia or islamic law. Some of it are to exist an echo and the significance of this taking place in punjab . Very much so. This is the area where the bulk of the recruits for the pakistan army, the Pakistan Police force, and the rangers come from. This is the most populous province in the country. Ad if they are posting as leader did yesterday, yes, we have decided to take the war to the punjab. The question is raised, how come the government, the provincial government, the Central Government were not aware of this . We know, and it is not a secret either in pakistan or in europe or anywhere else, that these groups are infiltrated by intelligence people who keep a watchful eye on them. They have people in there who report to them. What do they report, that they re were attacks are going to take place . We know someones ago the lahore literature festival was not allowed to use a particular government venue because they were fearful of terrorist attacks, so one assumes theyy were aware that this group was up to something. And it is a complete breakdown of the Intelligence Networks that they could not predict these attacks. I dont believe it myself. I believe the Muslim League of nawaz sharif, elements within it, did not want to take action against these groups because they have indirect or possibly even direct links with them. They dont want to upset the province. Which is their power base. And now theyve seen the result. Amy tariq ali, a would ask you that what is happening in the capital of islamabad. Thousands are staging a sit in outside the parliament to protest last months execution. F qadri you grew up with the Punjab Government governor . Yes, we were schoolfellows and very close friends. ,hough we lost contact later on except occasionally. But he was, on these questions, he was very openminded. And the reason they touted him was targeted him, was because a poor, christian woman was accused of blasphemy on the basis of nil evidence, locked up in a prison. There was a big deal about it. You press raised the issue. A month after he was a governor of the punjab, he decided to make a symbolic point and he actually went into the prison and sat next to the woman and talk to her. This was regarded as blasphemy itself. Involvedious group decided to punish him. He was shot dead by qadri, whoo is o one of his specialllly t td bodyguards, put into place in the police force to defend him. And all of the other guards stood quietly and watched as this guy pumped bullets into taseer. The judges were scared to he was in limbo for some time, sentenced to death. No one would carried out. The judge who finally said that the sentence had to be carried out has fled the country and is now in dubai. So this is his supporters of the killer, the assassin, or demonstrating against what was done to him on the 40th day after his funeral which isa day for prayer and religious memeditation, etc. C. And they organized system instruction, demanding that qadri be declared a martyr and a hold of her brother totally ridiculous demands which no serious government can even think of accepting. And yet ministers, etc. , have been talking and negotiating with them. M. So the country is inin a total mess, amy. I cannot extract express this too much. People dont like talking about it, but unless and until the countrys social structure improves and people see an alternative both on the level of education, health facilities, housing there is going to be huge vacuum which some of the Islamist Groups fill. And i think it has to be e poind out that this is not only poor people who are behaving like this, they can sometimes be duped. This is a middleclass phenomenon. Over pakistan, including in lahore, the capital of the punjab, particular middleclass women preaching a message of hate to middleclass people. They have nothing else. Their life is empty, so they go on this t turn and there b beeny cases of a woman taking her three children from a a pro isis family and according to syria. No one knows what has happened to her when shes coming back or not. The government is aware of all of this. If im sitting in london, thehey know much better than me. Unless something is done to change the country from the top, nothing is going to change. This will carry on in a few months or a few years. We see politicians repeating the same. Amy following the attacks in lahore, the killing of more than evident to people, injuring close to 350, the president ial front runner, of the Republican Party donald trump tweeted to , his 7 million followers another radical islamic attack, this time in pakistan, targeting Christian Women children. At least 67 dead, 400 injured. I alone can solve. Tariq ali . Complete fantasy, amy. What can this guy do to deal with the problem in pakistan . He doesnt even understand it if he speaks of only christians being killed. That is bad enough. You saiduslims, as earlier, and as the country knows,s, more muslims than christians have died. Why didnt he mention that . Why is a sears politician did nisei these terrorist attacks do not only take place in europe or north america, they actually target other muslims in Muslim States regularly and more people die there . It is simply this one got more publicity because it came soon after brussels, so it made the front pages of New York Times and various european publications. For trump to be so completely ignorant of what is going on his harley a surprise. Desk emptyt into the bravado. I can do with it. How can you do with it, by nuking the country . It is ridiculous. Amy donald trump advertisement credit controversy as it demanded a ban on muslims entering the United States while vowing to decapitate militant group isis. Well, i mean, how can you decapitate a group that has been created as a result of your own actions . Everyone knows it is not a secret, and trump himself actually has said it obama has saidid it, too, that have we not invaded iraq, there would have been no isis, which is absolutely true. So it is u. S. Policies which create these groups, and then more wars are proposed to do with them to decapitate them, when the actual problem isnt understood. Trumpsink, amy, that popularity, whether we like it or not, doesnt come from stupid, absurd remarks like this, but comes that he appeals to a layer which feels sosocl layer in american political life which has been ignored by mainstream politicians, poor white workingclass families. That is where his appeal is coming from. And thank god we have Bernie Sanders come also a billing to this layer, and others come and saying there is an alternative on the other side. My fear is that if bernie is. The president ial candidate of the democrats, which might be the case, but i hope not, and trump has to deal with hillary on the issue of war, on the p and all of these trade treaties that have been signed, on the issue of doing something for poor whites, trump, to use an awful pun, he will do better than her. She is absolutely no reply on any of these issues or being a creature of wall street. Amy you have the interesting political phenomenon in britain of Jeremyy Corbyn rising to the labor leader. The independent just reported that Jeremy Corbyn overtakes David Cameron leadership satisfaction ratings. If you can very quickly comment on Jerry Josh Jenny Corbyn as his tenure as labor leader . Amy, ive written a long essay on his progress in the last london review. He is doing well, carries on meetings, similar in many ways to Bernie Sanders, except he is actually the leader of a political party. If the playwrirights stop snipig at him frorom inside the labour party and let him get on with it, i dont think it i is at all imimpossible that Jeremy Corbyno be the countrys next Prime Minister because David Cameron is in a fix with the euro referendum coming up, with his own party divided, so we could have an election sooner than 2020 any unified force behind jeremy could actually propel him into downing street. Amy tariq ali, they could for being with us political , commentator, historian, activist, filmmaker, novelist, and an editor of the new left review. His latest b book the extreme , centre a warning. He is written in number of books on pakistani politics and history. When we come back, glenn versussd on the fbi apple. Stay with us. [music break] amy pashto lullaby by deeyah. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. On monday, the Justice Department announced it succeeded in unlocking an iphone used by one of the San Bernardino shooters and dropped its case against the legal battle. But it leaves debate over encryption unresolved. The fight between the fbi and apple had grown increasingly contentious as the tech giant refused to help government authorities bypass the security features of its phone. The fbi wanted apple to build a backdoor into the phone but , apple said such a move would put the security of other iphones at risk as well. The fbis decision to drop its case now raises new concerns about the strength of security in apple devices given Law Enforcements ability to unlock the iphone without apples assistance. After the brussels bombing last week, democratic president ial hopeful hillary clintoton delivered a mamajor address at Stanford University y and addressed the fbiapple fight. Impenetrable encryption provides significant cybersecurity advantages, that may also make it harder for Law Enforcement and counterterrorism professionals to investigate plots and prevent future attacks. Isis knows this, too. At the same time, there are legitimate worries about privacy, network security, and creating new vulnerabilities that bad actors, including terrorists, can exploit. There may be no quick or magic fix. In the apple case, the fbi may have found a workaround, but there will be future cases with different facts and different challenges. So the Tech Community and the government have to stop seeing each other as adversaries, and start working together to protect our safety and our privacy. Amy that was democratic president ial candidate Hillary Clinton speaking last week after the brussels attack. We turn now to Glenn Greenwald, cofounder of the intercept. Last week, democracy now s Nermeen Shaikh and i talked to him and asked about the fight between the fbi and apple as. Ask what lot of people really has changed as a result of Edward Snowdens revelations and sometimes people express the view that not much has by which they mean theres not a lot of wall laws that event has limiting the nsas ability to spike, but one critical change, really fundamental and significant one has been that prior to the snowden waslations, Silicon Valley companies, like apple and facebook and google and yahoo, were fullscale collaborators with the nsas effort to collect everything, essentially, to turn the internet into an unlimited realm of surveillance. And they were able to do that because nobody knew they were doing it, and so there was no cost. Once we were able to shine a light on the cooperation between Silicon Valley and the nsa as a result of edward snowden, there was a huge cost to these companies, which was that people around the world would be unwilling to use their services and would instead move to south korean or germrman or brazilian social Media Companies that protected their privacy. And so these companies needed to say, we are willing now to protect your privacy by putting encryption products into our products that will not let the government invade your communications and see what youre doing. And there is now a serious wedge between the u. S. Government, on the one hand, and Silicon Valley, on the other not because these companies suddenly care about privacy. They dont care about privacy at all. Its because they perceive it as being within their selfinterest to demonstrate a commitment to privacy. And that has created a real difficulty for the nsa and for its allied agencies around the world to be able to intrude into peoples private communications. The other interesting aspect of this is that in the 1990s after the Timothy Mcveigh attack on the Oklahoma City courthouse, the Clinton Administration what may be the first Clinton Administration actually initiated the campaign to demand a law that said that no one was allowed to sell encryption products unless it included a backdoor for the u. S. Government to enter. And now, 20 years later, after that campaign was defeated ironically, by the republicans in the senate on privacy grounds, who said, we are not going to let the government have a backdoor into our encryption you have Hillary Clinton exploiting these terrorist attacks to insinuate although she hasnt said it outright that there needs to be, quote, greater cooperation between Silicon Valley and the government, by which she can only mean greater cooperation to allow u. S. Intelligence agencies access to overcome encryption and to enter peoples private communications. And so ultimately, the question is do you think there should be ever any way for people, human beings, to communicate without the u. S. Government being able to access that . That really is the critical question we face. And politicians like Hillary Clinton are trying to exploit the fear of terrorism to get people to say therere should ner be any communications out of the reach of the u. S. Government. Amy and what do you see is the difference between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, and also the effect that Bernie Sanders is having on Hillary Clintons positions . Its interesting because if you look at Bernie Sanders political career, questioning and challenging and opposing u. S. Militarism and imperialism was at one point a central plank of his political identity. That was why he went to nicaragua and cuba and talked about u. S. Interference in those regions. For whatever reason and there may be valid reasons he has shifted his focus away from Foreign Policy to income inequality and the control of the political process by wall street and by banks. And to the extent he talks about Foreign Policy and Civil Liberties, its often in this very kind of tepid way, very minor differences with the standard democratic platform. Hes recently become again clearer and sort of more aggressive about critiquing u. S. Foreign policy, as we heard in the clip that you played earlier of his criticisms of israel. Hes become more, i think, categorical and vehement about condemning clintons hawkish positions. But the difference hasnt been all that great, because his Foreign Policy message has been muddled. And to the extent that he has changed Hillary Clintons posture politically as a result of his primary challenge to her, theres this common perception that hes dragged her to the left and made her become more liberal. You know, i think its really critical to understand that politicians and this is the lesson we ought toto have learnd from barack obama what they say in political campaigns doesnt necessarily correspond to what they actually do in once they obtain power. And so i think the effect on sanders has been to make clintons rhetoric in the democratic primary be a little bit more leftwing, be a little bit more attentive to liberal constituencies. But i think you see her already, now that shes confident shes going to beat sanders, already moving her rhetoric more to the center. And by the time shes a general election candidate, will almost certainly revert to the kind of rightwing posture on foreign policies and Civil Liberties that shes long had and the centrist approach to economics and domestic policies, other than social l issues, where she tends to be a reliable liberal. Nermeen well, i want to ask about the controversy around trumps statements endorsing torture tactics. Last month, speaking to hbos bill maher, former nsa and cia director general Michael Hayden, said the military would refuse to follow trumps orders on torture and extrajudicial killings. Let me give you a punch line. All right . T . If he were to order that, once in government, the American Armed forces would refuse to act. What . Oh, well, thats thats quite a statement, sir. Its a violation i thought the whole thing was, you have to follolow order. You cannot you are not committed. Youre not required. In fact, youre required not to follow an unlawful order. Ok. That would be in violation of all the International Laws of armed conflict. Nermeen then during the republican president ial debate earlier this month, trump said the military could not refuse his orders. He was questioned by fox moderator bret baier. What would you do, as chief, as commanderinchief, if the u. S. Military refused to carry out those orders . They wont refuse. Theyre not going to refuse me, believe me. But theyre illegal. Let me just tell you, you look at the middle east, theyre chopping off heads. Theyre chopping off the heads of christians and anybody else that happens to be in the way. Theyre drowning people in steel cages. And he now, were talking about waterboarding. But targeting terrorists families . And and im a leader. Im a leader. Ive always s been a leader. Ive never had any problem leading people. If i say, do it, theyre going to do it. Thats what leadership is all about. Nermeen Glenn Greenwald, your response first to what former cia director Michael Hayden said and then to trumps endorsement of torture . It was one of the most bizarre exchanges i think ive witnessed in a while. I mean, donald trump was absolutely right and michael , hayden, what he said, is completely absurd. The idea that the u. S. Military, in mass, refuses to follow orders if they constitute illegal conduct or war crimes is negated by the entire history of this country, including very recently. You do have isolated members of the armed forces who periodically refuse on grounds of conscience or legal and moral duty. They denounce certain tactics. They resign from the military. They refuse to follow orders. But overwhelmingly, the u. S. Military has been continuously willing and not just the u. S. Military but also the cia to , engage in all sorts of war crimes and illegal behavior. Who is it who instituted the worldwide regime of torture because they were told to by the Bush Administration . Or who was it that instituted a policy of kidnapping people without trial from around the world and putting them into dark black sites outside of the reach of the red cross and other human rights organizations . Or who is it who carpetbombed cambodia and laos and vietnam . Its this really selfpleasing fantasy to believe that the u. S. Military and Intelligence Services would nobly refuse to follow the orders of their commanderinchief if they constituted war crimes and other illegal conduct. But everything in u. S. History, including as recently as the war on terror, tells us that donald trump is absolutely right. That in fact they would follow , orders. As far as trumps, you know, specific advocacy of things like torture is concerned, we talked about this earlier, but the reality is, is that what hes advocating, although he uses words for it that are noneuphemistic and therefore sound really extreme, even radical, is actually mainstream american political and military thought. The cia, under the same general hayden who said, oh, these are war crimes, and the u. S. Military would never do it, instituted and applied a policy of waterboarding while Michael Hayden ran the cia. A lot of those techniques were terminated by the time he took over the cia in 2005, but many of them persisted after that. And so, again, you have donald trump using language a little bit more honest and noneuphemistic, but hes advocating policies that are very much within the mainstream of the United States. And polls show that americans largely want torture to be used when it comes to people the u. S. Government regards as terrorists. Amy pulitzer prizewinning journalist Glenn Greenwald, cofounder of the intercept. When we come back, the state of North Carolina sued over sweeping new antigay, antitrans law. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. In North Carolina, the american civil libeberties union has fild a lawsuit challenging a sweeping new law banning local governments from passing laws prohibiting discrimination against lgbt people in public accommodations. The law, house bill 2, commonly known as the bathroom bill is widely considered to be the most wideranging antitrans laws to take effect this year. It was introduced after the city of charlotte passed its own ordinance seeking to protect the right of transgender people to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity. In response, the North Carolina legislature convened an emergency oneday session, at the cost of 42,000, to push through the statewide law hb 2. Within hours of its introduction, the bill was pushed through both the house and the senate, despite the fact that Senate Democrats walked out in protest. Senate democratic leader dan blue issued a statement saying, this is a direct affront to equality, civil rights and local autonomy. North Carolina Governor Pat Mccrory then signed the legislation Late Wednesday night. On monday, aclu North Carolina legal director chris brooks announced the organization was challenging the law constitutionality. Corks were asking the court to overturn hb 2 because it is unconstitutional, violates due process clauses of the 14th amendment, because it discriminates on the basis of sex and sexual orientation, and because it is an invasion of privacy for transgender men and transgender women. The law also violates title ix by discriminating against studentsts on the basis of sex. Amy on thursday, the nba released the following statement saying the passage of hb 2 in North Carolina comes amid a spate of similar bills being introduced into state legislatures. South dakota, tennessee, kentucky, minnesota, washingtonn state, wisconsin, and other states are all considering similar bills aimed at , prohibiting transgender students from using the bathrooms that correspond to their gender identities. For more were joined in new york by chase strangio, a staff attorney for the aclu. Lets start in North Carolina. The significant of this bill being put into effecect and the aclu now suing . They keep are having me. I want to say what an honor it is to continue to have these conversations and to be in a position to tell a legislature in a government likike northh carolina, you pass an unconstitutional law wednesday night and were going to see you on monday morning. It is important we have this tool, but the larger context in which these laws are playing out is deeply disturbing and the North Carolina is almost a greatest hits of all of the terrible things if seen in the almost 200 bills that have been introduced targeting lgbt people this year. The law strips away Legal Protections for lgbt people in jurisdictions across the state and mandates discrimination against transgegender peoeople. We fileded this lawsuit a basically say this law is unconstitutional and invalids law that prevents sex discrimination in educational students receiving federal funding. Amy last wednesday as the nortel on a legislature convened an emergency session to put through1, or americo spoke o ou. Through true emergencies and publiccrolina a subpar schools, the need for clean talking water, the special centnter session is henry my rights. It is also hindering charlottes ability to govern itself. This is not how taxpayer money should be spent. Amy that was laura americo. Talk about how this always push ththrough. 42,000 . It was s anomalous with unbelievable amounts of procedural live rarities irregularities. Some did not have a chance to see the village a was before them and they were charged with voting on it. In addition, the discourse around the charlotte ordinance and the fall really are incredibly harmful for transgender people because they rely on a myth and a lie about who trans people are and what it means to ask the prohibit dissemination against amy after hb 2 was passed, North Carolina governor pat mccrory tweeted i signed Bipartisan Legislation to stop the breach of basic privacy and etiquette, ensure privacy in bathrooms and locker rooms. Chase . That is a complete lie. It does nothining to protect privacy in bathrooms or to protect the Public Safety. Experience has shown in the 200 cities and other jurisdictions that prohibit discrimination against trans people, theres never been a single incident of anyone using the law to go into a bathroom to harm a another persrson which would alrereae illegal experience has also shown that these conversations actively harm the Trans Community who are vulnerable to violence, who do have suicide attempts close to 50 . While our conversations are distorting the reality of what is laws are doing, theyre contributing to an epidemic of violence that trans people are living under across the country. Amy can you talk about georgia . As i mentioned, there been many bills targeting the Lgbt Community that have been introduced and georgia passed through the legislature another sweeping piece of legislation that would have authorized discrimination against lgbt people in a host of context, one of those licensed to disseminate bills that allow the religious bases were discrimination and the governor under pressure actually decided to veto that piece of legislation. Amy lets go to Georgia Republican governor nathan deal, announcing he would veto the socalled religious liberty bill kicks of would allow dissemination against lgbt people. Whats i do not think that we have to discriminate against anyone to protect the Faithbased Community in georgia of which i am my family have been a part of for all of our lives. 757actions on house bill are not just about protecting the Faithbased Community or providing business friendly climate for job growth in georgia. I believe it is about the character of our state and the character of our people. Amy that was Georgia Republican governor nathan deal. The nfl had weighed in on georgia as well. What were seeing is businesses in the nba and the nfl, theyre not going to just tolerate this type of discrimination. The problem with North Carolina was, that no interest in hearing from other people or assessing what would mean for their state, they just wanted to pass through in the matter of 12 hours a sweeping piece of legislation that actively harm particularly trans people, but the entire lgbt comommunity. Amy the north cararolina bill goes i into effect immediately. What does it mean for trans people . Trans people have to live in a state in which they know their government is willing to actively dissipate in the harassssment and bullying of th, but also means trans people are completely unable to participate in public life because trans people have no idea where they are supposed to go to the bathroom. With a supposed use the bathroom that is listed on abrupt certificate that in no way matches who they are, which will be uncomfortable for them and others or risk potential arrest or other advdverse consequencesy continuing to use the bathroom that accords with their gender, which is now illegal in North Carolina. Amy the North Carolina general assemblys passage of hb 2 came the same week the city of charlotte was marking the First Anniversary of the death of transgender ststudent blake brockington, who was the first openly transgender homecoming king in a North Carolina high school. This is blake speaking in a Short Documentary about his life. I grew up in charleston, south carolina, a Southern Baptist home. I have always been kind of different and it was always a bad thing in my family, but they never really said anytything. When the homecoming stuff happened, it was like, youre still not a guy to us. Guys and girls, you know. T has been really hard high school is been really hard. To me, perersonally, it made me feel likike for oncece i could t be a normal teenaage boy. Guy doing normall teenage things. Homecoming king. That is normal. We all want to do it, kind of. Amy that was blake brockington. What happened to blake . Is heartbreaking because blake, like so many transgender people, took his own life. In part because of the ways in which h society is continuing to tell the horrible distortions about trans people that really cut us out from public life and make vulnerable transgender peopople who are such beacons of our, like blake, for community, and dying by suicide. Its another trans people are being murdered on the streets. This is the context in which we are having these conversations and they are impacting the opportunity for young trans people like blake to survive. Amy we just got this news from down the street, actually, from the stonewall, this iconic place where the bar that really launched the modern day gay lesbian trance movement, that he young trans woman was reportedly raped their this pastst weekend. What do you know about this . She was 25. Collect im also hearing the young trans woman was raped in a bathroom at ththe stonewall in d i think this is a reminder that if we need any more, the vulnlnerabilities of transgender people, particularly women, to violence, and here we are with officials across the country talking about how somehow allowing trans people to live our lives is going to threaten the Public Safety or privacy of others andnd meanwhile, a as trs people, theyre being assaulted on the streets, raped in bathrooms and otherwise experiencing terrible harm. Amy chase strangio, you just wrote a tease dont forget, trans people are loved. I came on the show to talk about south dakota listening to the young people are working to stop this gold that was ultimately vetoed by the governor there, and i was in tennessee also working with young people to lobby against the legislators and every time ththe lawmakers make these horrible statements, it impacts young people, trans people. We have to listen to these distortions. I think it is important we have lawsuit and advocacy, but at the same time, were ultimately going to be more transformative if we continue to tell our stories. Amy i want to turn quickly to Payton Mcgarry who we just got in the student studio, a unc having grins broke, a plaintiff in the lawsuit to challenge the new north h carolina law. Can you talk to your own story and i why this means so much to you and what do you think of the law that was passed . Absolutely. First and foremost, thank you for having me. My own story, im a 20yearold at the sophomore university of North Carolina in greensboro. I started my transition while i was in high school. I realized pretty early on through puberty at the age of 16 years old that something wasnt quite right. I came out to my family and started undergoing therapy is 17 years old. At 18, started hormones. Here we are. It means a lot to me just because of the experiences i have had with opposition to my inder, particularly bathrooms and even more so ive been fired from jobs for being transgender. Eyewitness all caps of discrimination just based on my gender identity. Amy were going to leave it here because this is the end of the show. We just got you up and were sorry we were not able to get a satellite earlier, but we will continue this conversation and post it online at democracynow. Org. Payton mcgarry, thank you for being with us. Plplaintiff in the federal lawst filed against North Carolina and, chase strangio, of the aclu. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed