Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20150331

Switzerland. Well also look at how israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu opposes the deal as part of an escalating standoff with the white house over its mideast policies. Prime minister netanyahu this deal of cash appears to be bearing out our fears. Amy then, boycotts are underway against indiana as the state faces fierce criticism over its new religious freedom restoration act that could sanction antilgbts termination discrimination. It does not openly allow discrimination. No. What it does is it creates a roadmap, a path to get us to discrimination. Amy connecticut is the first state to officially boycott indiana over the move. San francisco and seattle have also enforced bans on citybundled travel to the state. Then prison officials told his supporters that he is in diabetic shock. We will get an update. All that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Six days of historic talks aimed at a nuclear deal with iran are wrapping up in lausanne, switzerland. Today marks a selfimposed deadline for the deal between iran, the United States and five other world powers. The Associated Press reports the talks will conclude with an agreement to continue a new phase aimed at reaching a comprehensive accord by the end of june. Speaking before he rejoined talks today, Russian Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said prospects for a deal looked good. Mr. Lavrov the prospects are good. I would not say 100 , but you cannot be 100 sure of anything. The talks are doable if neither of the parties raise the stakes, hoping to gain something extra. Amy the pentagon has rejected reports a u. S. Drone strike killed two Iranian Military advisors who were aiding iraqi attempts to retake the city of tikrit from the selfproclaimed islamic state. Iran said the two men were killed on march 23, two days before the u. S. Said it began airstrikes. Saudiled forces have intensified their aerial bombardment of yemen and launched strikes from warships around aden in a bid to prevent Houthi Rebels from advancing on the city. On monday, at least 40 people were reportedly killed when an airstrike hit the al mazraq camp for displaced people in a houthicontrolled area in the north. According to doctors without borders, about 500 new families had arrived at the camp over the past few days, fleeing bombings in other parts of the country. In nigeria, former military ruler Muhammadu Buhari is leading in the president ial election. With over half of states declared, buhari is leading by about two million votes, threatening to make president Goodluck Jonathan the first incumbent to lose at the polls in nigerias history. The polling took place amid Violent Attacks which killed an estimated 50 people. Addressing the u. N. Security council by video stream, mohammed ibn chambas, head of the un office for west africa, described the ongoing threat from the militant group boko haram. Mr. Ibn chambas the Group Continues horrific acts against women and children. We have received reports that children particular have been recruited, objected, maine, and killed. Schools are no longer safe places of learning, and many continue to be attacked, looted, and destroyed. Several schools in the area also remain close. Amy meanwhile, two nigeria journalists covering boko haram and the elections for al jazeera have been detained in their hotel room in maiduguri for a week. Nigerian authorities have accused ahmed idris and ali mustafa of operating without clearance, but al jazeera says they are accredited. In bangladesh a secular blogger has been hacked to death with machetes. Two children have been arrested for killing Oyasiqur Rhaman over his criticism of islam. Rhaman had expressed solidarity with avijit roy, another secular blogger killed last month, posting i am avijit on social media. Farmworkers have reportedly rejected the offer of a 15 raise. In quebec, an 18yearold student says she will press charges against a Quebec City Police officer after she was hit in the face by a teargas canister. Naomi trudeautremblay was taking part in protests against austerity cuts in the provincial budget when an officer fired the teargas canister into her face at pointblank range. She described what happened. Naomi i was gasping for breath. I did not realize right away that i was swollen like this. I just put my hands like this. I was trying to catch my breath and then i lost consciousness for about two w will minutes not too long. When i got up, i touched my face, and felt that it was burned. Amy here, in the u. S. Police at , the National Security Agency Headquarters in fort meade maryland, shot and killed the driver of a car after it approached the area and failed to stop. Authorities say two men dressed in Womens Clothing drove a stolen car down a highway exit reserved for nsa employees. The nsa says the driver failed to stop and accelerated toward an nsa police vehicle. Police opened fire, killing the driver and injuring the passenger, identified as 20yearold kevin fleming. An officer was also injured. Police found cocaine and at least one gun, they say. Its unclear whether the men intended to approach the nsa. The germanwings copilot who crashed a plane in the french alps, killing all 150 people on board, reportedly received treatment for suicidal tendencies. A german prosecutor said Andreas Lubitz was in treatment for the problems over a long period before he received his pilots license. Officials are also looking into reports lubitz suffered from vision problems, which may have been psychosomatic. In pennsylvania imprisoned , journalist and former black panther Mumia Abujamal has been taken to the intensive care unit of a local hospital after he was removed from prison for a medical emergency without any notification to his Family Friends or lawyers. Friends say they were told he was in diabetic shock, but they have so far been unable to visit him or obtain any details. Noelle hanrahan, producer of prison radio, which distributes abujamals commentaries from prison, spoke to democracy now from the hospital. Noelle we are standing in the icu waiting room. We are at the nurses desk. We can see his room. We cannot see him. I am looking at Police Officers guarding his room. He is trying to access whatever health care they have for him and it has been woefully inaccurate, and we deeply, deeply concerned about this. They do not take people to outside hospitals. This is not standard operating procedure. You have to be extraordinarily sick to be removed period. Amy abujamals transfer came the same day as a hearing on pennsylvania law he says tramples his free speech. The law was introduced after abujamal gave a pretaped commencement address at vermonts goddard college. It authorizes the censoring of prisoners public addresses if a judges agree the speech would cause mental anguish to victims. In indiana, purvi patel has been sentenced to 41 years in prison for what she said was a miscarriage. Patel was convicted of feticide and felony neglect last month after prosecutors accused her of taking drugs to induce an abortion, even though no drugs were found in her system. She said she miscarried and disposed of her dead fetus in a dumpster, but prosecutors, using scientifically contested evidence, claim the baby was born alive. A judge sentenced her to 30 years for neglect and six for feticide, plus five years probation. The sentence will be served her conclusively. Effective sentence is actually 20 years, since the two terms will run concurrently, and 10 the two charges appear mutually exclusive. Feticide applies when a fetus dies in the womb, while felony neglect applies to live children, but patel was convicted of both. In arizona, meanwhile, governor doug ducey has signed the firstever law requiring doctors to tell patients they can reverse the effects of a druginduced abortion, despite a lack of any Scientific Evidence such a step is actually possible. The law also prevents women from buying insurance policies that cover abortion though the federal marketplace. And Comedy Central has announced a successor to jon stewart, who is stepping down this year as host of the daily show. Trevor noah, a 31yearold comedian from south africa, will be the new host. He debuted on the show last year with the line, i never thought id be more afraid of police in america than in south africa. And those are some of the headlines this is democracy now, democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Aaron and i am aaron mate. We begin todays show in lausanne, switzerland, where six days of historic talks aimed at an Iran Nuclear Deal have reportedly concluded. The Associated Press says negotiators plan to issue a general statement that enough progress has been made to continue negotiations in a new phase aimed at reaching a comprehensive agreement in june. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said u. N. Sanctions against iran should be lifted if a nuclear deal is reached. Mr. Lavrov i think sanctions should be lifted if a deal is completed. There are different ways. In practice, it should mean that sanctions should be lifted. It should not interfere with legal trade and Economic Activity between iran and foreign partners. Amy meanwhile, congress has vowed to impose additional sanctions if negotiators fail to reach a preliminary deal. Well, for more we go to lausanne, switzerland, where we are joined by trita parsi, founder and president of the National Iranian american council. He has been following the negotiatons closely. His book is a a single roll of the dice obamas diplomacy with iran. Welcome back to democracy now can you talk about the agreement that has been worked out just now . Trita actually, no one can, because the details have not been released. All we know is there will be a statement of understanding, and the reason for that is the iranians will not agree to a tw opahse phase agreement. The reality is it is a framework until we have the details that are scheduled to be released. Aaron what was irans bad experience, that you mentioned and what are you looking for to happen next . Trita in 2009, they sat down during the first year of president obamas term, and they discuss the principles of a swap deal. The iranians agreed, and later on they had a conversation about the details. At that stage, it turned out the two sides had irreconcilable differences when it comes to the details. The narrative that came out of that was at the iranians first agreed, and then backtracked. It was very easy for the west to put the blame on the iranians which later on became a critical component towards imposing new sanctions on iran. That is what the iranians are trying to avoid here they do not want to agree to anything that is unclear at this point and later on when additional negotiations are taking place, find out there is a disagreement, and then get the blame for it. Amy can you talk about the significance of putting this off . What does it mean to say that it is a selfimposed deadline, and what you see as the major Sticking Point . Trita it is important to keep in mind that this is primarily an american deadline of march 31, primarily because of the Pressure Congress has been putting on the president of the United States. Look at june 30 as the real deadline, mindful that the interim agreement is valid for another three months. They could have walked away with nothing, and the interim agreement would have still been in place. What that means is the way congress has been putting pressure on the u. S. Team has not work in such a way that the iranians are pressured. Rather the pressure is on the american side, and adding pressure in a way that others are not feeling. Nevertheless, it seems they will be able to walk away with something that will enable the u. S. Team to come back and resist the pressure from congress. The next step would be to continue the negotiations and work out a real framework, a real final deal with a deadline of june 30. Aaron you mentioned the potential obstacles from congress. There is a measure from senator bob corker that will come up that would give congress the ability to kill the deal, basically. Do you see that as a significant factor here can Congress Stop whatever deal would be reached . Trita on april 14, it is scheduled to be marked up in the senate. This is what is called an oversight bill, but in reality it contains measures that is more of an interference in the negotiations than mere oversight. For instance, the president does not have his suspension rights for sanctions for the first 60 days after a deal is struck in order for the senate to review the deal. That is actually a direct interference because what the two sides are negotiating right now is precisely the schedule of sanctions relief. If they come to a conclusion on that, and the senate says hold on, we are withdrawing your suspension rights for 60 days that is directed fans that could cause the blame of the collapse of talks to fall on the u. S. Side. Amy what is surprised you the most trita parsi . You are a close follower and other countries are involved in this as well. Trita there is something absolute unique and historic going on here. The p5 1 have their own disagreements and conflict between the u. S. And russia, and the eu and russia in particular, yet they have maintained a professional unity toward getting some sort of agreement on the nuclear issue. It shows the importance of finding this agreement because it truly is a matter of war and peace. I think, that casts the opponents in the senate, israel, or elsewhere, as even more isolated because they are united towards trying to get the same deal the president of the United States is pursuing. Amy trita parsi. The speaker of the house, john boehner, has taken a delegation to meet with Benjamin Netanyahu to israel. And a peck spokesperson has the israel project. What pressure has israel brought to bear here . You think netanyahu is succeeding in scuttling the time the the talks . Trita the israelis have put on an enormous amount of pressure since the moment president obama came to office, but i would say the israelis have less influence right now than they could have had had they play their cards differently. The very aggressive tone of Prime Minister ben yahoo netanyahu and attempts to sabotage the talks has pushed him to the margins, and given him less opportunities to be able to sabotage it, but make no mistake, the israelis are against the steel and are trying to do everything they can do to stop it, but there is an air of inevitability that something will come out of these talks. Amy thank you. Trita parsi, founder and president of the National Iranian american council. His book is a a single roll of the dice obamas diplomacy with iran. When we come back, well go to florida. We will be joined by former senator George Mitchell, who is the former envoy under president obama to the middle east. We will talk about iran and israel. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Aaron as historic talks have reportedly closed ahead of the deadline, the Israeli Government oppose the deal. It emerged that israelis spied on the talks, and now the proposed terms are even worse than thought. Speaking on sunday, netanyahu appeared to put out the axis of evil moniker. Prime minister netanyahu this deal bears out all of our fears. The access is very dangerous to humanity, and this must be stopped. Aaron he refers to the swiss town where the Nuclear Talks are taking place, apparently putting the u. S. Inside of the access that netanyahu opposes, along with the five other world powers negotiating with iran. Amy netanyahus comment was the latest in an escalating standoff with the white house over its mideast policies. President obama and other top officials have vowed to reevaluate their approach to the israelpalestine conflict following netanyahus open rejection of a twostate solution. U. S. Officials have suggested they might take steps including no longer vetoing u. N. Security Council Resolutions critical of israel. Some predict a major shift in u. S. Policy. A headline in the Washington Post describes it as, quote, obamas next earthquake. And the first test of the new u. S. Approach might come in the next few weeks. France has announced plans to put forward a u. N. Security Council Measure aimed at encouraging peace talks between israel and the Palestinian Authority. The measure would include parameters for negotiations, presumably based on an israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories and the establishment of a palestinian state there. For more we are joined by a guest who has been deeply involved in u. S. Efforts to seek a peace deal between israel and palestine. Senator George Mitchell served as the u. S. Special envoy for middle east peace under president obama from 2009 to 2011. He previously served under president bill clinton, as the special envoy for northern ireland, where he helped broker the belfast Peace Agreement of 1998. Before that, mitchell served as a democratic senator from maine for 15 years, including as Senate Majority leader from 1989 to 1995. Welcome to democracy now let me start on the issue that proposed measures the United States is considering against israel particularly for what might happen in the united nations. Mr. Mitchell i do not think it is possible to know. I doubt very much any decision hasnt made in the white house. I think it is all under review, as the president has said. It will depend on the circumstances that exist at the time any such resolution is introduced in the united nations, but the language of the resolution is the reaction both from United States and from our allies. I think the president is appropriately reviewing our policies given the developments of the last past few weeks particularly the various statements of Prime Minister netanyahu, but i do not think anyone should draw any final conclusion from the discussions that are now underway, particularly since we do not yet know what is going to happen with the talks with iran, which is obviously major factor. Aaron senator mitchell, can we agree this could be a major shift if the u. S. Starts supporting or not blocking critical mesh that the u. N. . I want to go to a clip from u. N. Ambassador rice samantha power. Ambassador power there are no shortcuts to statehood. We have made that clear. Efforts that attempt to circumvent the Peace Process the hard slog of the priests Peace Process, will only become a productive to the Peace Process itself and the ultimate objective of securing statehood the objective that the Palestinian Authority, of course, has. So, we have contested every effort, even prior to the restart of negotiations spearheaded by secretary john kerry. Every time the palestinians have sought to make a move on the u. N. Agency, a treaty, etc. , we have opposed it. Aaron power went on to say that trying to deter palestinian action is what we do all the time and what we will continue to do. Things are now different. Can you talk about why the u. S. Was simply previously blocking resolution such as criticizing the expansion of israeli settlements in the occupied territories . Mr. Mitchell it has been for many decades, under president s of both policies parties that the u. S. Preference is the differences between the israelis and the palestinians should be resolved in the direct negotiations between the parties with the support and assistance of the net estate and other allies. As a necessary corollary to that, u. S. Policy has been that the issues should not be resolved outside of direct negotiations, so unilateral action by either side to bring about a change that would alter the circumstances on the ground, or that would resolve an issue unilaterally that should be resolved in negotiations were to be resisted. That is why the United States has consistently, publicly opposed israels policies and actions regarding settlements even as it has opposed publicly, palestinian efforts to resolve other issues outside of direct negotiations. So american policy has been clearly consistent, but what is different now, of course is that is all premised on the basis that there will be a direct negotiation between israel is an palestinians to achieve the goals between israelis and palestinians to achieve the goals that each seeks security four israel and its people, and a state for the palestinian people. The reason that has changed is on the day before his election Prime Minister netanyahu said there would not be a palestinian state while he was Prime Minister. That, effectively, undermines the principle of american policy, of what our objectives would be. The next day, he appeared to walk back from that, so there is now some question about policy in that regard, and that is what has led to the review that you described earlier. Amy i want to turn to william quandt, who served on the National Security council under president s carter and nixon. At a recent event, quandt suggested the u. S. Needs to impose a cost on israel for maintaining the occupation. Mr. Quandt what does not work is saying we know what needs to be done, and that is what you need to do. That is the we tried in the past. We continue to see the continued settlement of illegitimate activities combo you not say the settlements are illegal. Amy that is a former official saying the status quo does not work. Your response, senator George Mitchell, and also, if you could respond to the other controversy will statement, to say the least, what netanyahu said on the day of the election, concerned about the air of vote that was turning arab vote that was turning out. Mr. Mitchell well, he has apologized for that, so i think that is a separate issue from the first one that you described. The fact is, of course, that both sides have, for a very long time urged that the United States impose consequences on the other side. Both regard that as a way to resolve the issue. Palestinians and many arabs repeatedly told me in meetings at the way to get this issue solved is for the United States to cut off all aid to israel. They are depending on you, they said, and if you cut off all in a will do what you want. Israelis, on the other hand, make the same statement regarding aid to the palestinians. They are dependent on you, and if you would cut off aid to the palestinians, they will do what you want. In my judgment, neither of those options is viable or would work. Israel is a democracy a vibrant democracy. They are a proud and sovereign people. Taking punitive action, i think would be first, inappropriate, because of our close relationship to them, and secondly, i think it would be counterproductive. I do not think it would produce the desired result. It would further isolate the relations further separate the relations between the parties, and reduce american influence their, and i do not think that is helpful. What we want is the objective of a Peace Agreement between israel and palestinians and equally important, normalization of relations between israel and its arab neighbors, most of whom are also allied with the United States, and who, paradoxically and somewhat ironically are aligned with israel on the issue of iran and nuclear weapons. There is no stronger supporter of the position that Prime Minister netanyahu is taking on the Iran Nuclear Deal than the government of saudi arabia, for example, which disagrees with israel on other issues. So, it is complicated. It is difficult. There is a powerful temptation to resort to well, if we just do this, they will do that, if we take that action, they will take that action pair call i do not think that is the case. Ultimately there has to be a action. I think ultimately there has to be a discussion to achieve the mutually beneficial objectives. Israel has a state. They do not have security. They want it, and they deserve it. The palestinians do not have a state. They want one, and they deserve one. Israel is beneficial objectives. Israel has a state. They do not have security. Not going to get security until the palestinians get a state, and the palestinians are not going to get a state until the people of israel have a reasonable and sustainable degree of security. It is in their mutually Beneficial Interest to reach agreement, and i think over time, that is going to become clear to the public on both sides, as well as important not to leave out of the discussion of the following that, the normalization of relations between israel and its neighbors, its gulf arab neighbors in the region, which be beneficial to all concerned. Aaron senator, if were talking about taking punitive measures can we agree the two parties are not equal . Theyre not occupying each other. It is israel that has been occupying palestine for years. They are a nuclear power. Even during peace talks, settlements have expanded. Palestinians could say the status quo of 50 years has not worked. Israel the u. S. , as their largest supporter, has to change policy decisively. Mr. Mitchell well, it is true, that the parties are not equal of course, and one reason for having outside participation in the process is to provide an independent who would assist the parties and reach an agreement and despite the criticism of the night states by many, there is in fact, no United States by many, there is, in fact, no other entity in the world that can perform that task other than the United States government. No other entity can create the circumstances, conditions, that is necessary to follow up for these agreements. We have an Important Role to play. We can play it. We are, and will continue to be close friends, allies, and supporters of the people of israel. That does not mean that we agree with the government of israel on every issue, and surely, the disagreements between the night states and israel in recent weeks have been well documented and displayed for all of the world to see. At the same time, we support a palestinian state. President george w. Bush set that out very persuasively and comprehensively in several speeches, including when he made in jerusalem in january, 2009. So, i think the nine states can and must play a central role in bringing about an agreement, the United States can play a central role in bringing about an agreement, and most importantly seen that the agreement is a hereto over a hereto over time, and i do not that we should say it is somehow our role to take punitive action against israel so as to try to equal the status between them and the palestinians. That would not work, and i do not think it would achieve the desired objective. Amy i had of a trip to israel, House Speaker john boehner called treatment of israel reprehensible. Speaker boehner i think he animosity is chip in it to be by our administration toward israel is reprehensible. I think the pressure they have put on him over the last four or five years has frankie, pushed him to the point where he had to speak up. I do not blame him at all for speaking up. Amy i would like you to respond to the House Speaker, the Republican Leadership siding with netanyahu, a foreign Prime Minister, over president obama. Mr. Mitchell well, i do not agree with Speaker Boehner on either of the points that he made. Of course, there is a long history, in the United States, which is an open, vibrant democracy, of people disagreeing with the president. That is one of the essentials of democracy, that the absence of support is not evidence of a lack of patriotism. It is our free system. On the issues that Speaker Boehner has just described while i fully respect his right to express his view, i respectfully, but strongly disagree with the conclusions that he reached, that somehow it is president obamas fault that Prime Minister netanyahu has made differing statements with respect to a palestinian state. Aaron and senator should peace talks ever resume, what you see is the major Sticking Points that might prove to be an obstacle to talks, and you have any ideas for what solutions could be introduced . Mr. Mitchell well, all of the issues are Sticking Points. There are no easy issues in the palestinianisraeli dispute. They are all important. Where the borders would be. The distribution and rights with respect to water, which is a crucial issue in that region of the world, and, of course, other parts of the world. The status of the right of the turn of the palestinians. The issue of jerusalem whether it should be the capital of both countries, or not. So, you have a whole range of very, very difficult issues, but in my judgment, all of which can be resolved, if there is a basis of trust between the two parties. This discussion has been long and complicated, but it has not mentioned what, in my judgment is the single most important issue, the high level of mistrust between both societies and both leaders. Having had long experience in the region, having met many many times with Prime Minister netanyahu and his predecessors, president abas and his predecessor, i think that is the single most difficult issue. Prime minister netanyahu, in my opinion, does not believe that president abas has either the will or capacity, personal or political strength, to reach agreement, and push one through two approval and limitation. On the other hand, he does not believe that Prime Minister netanyahu is serious about getting an agreement. When Prime Minister netanyahu announced in june of 2009 that he favored a twostate solution, no palestinians believed that he was telling the truth and neither did any of the arabs. They thought he was saying that just to accommodate the pressure of the United States. As Speaker Boehner has suggested, this is really the reverse side of that argument. So, when Prime Minister netanyahu, on the day before the recent election, said there would not be a state, the arabs reacted with i told you so. We did not believe him in the first place. Then when he appeared to walk back from that on the following day, that just further the impression of mistrust on the part of the palestinians and the arabs. So, at the root cause of this you have two leaders who do not believe that the other has the intent, sincerity, or capability to reach an agreement, and are therefore reluctant to take any steps that would impose a political cost on them within their societies because both societies are divided. Prime minister netanyahu just got elected. He represents the democratic result of a free and open election in israel, and the strong sentiment among his party and his supporters for their not ever to be a palestinian state on the west bank. On the other hand, there are many israelis that favor a two state solution. On the palestinian side, it is about 50 50. You have the Principal Party of the Palestinian Authority headed by the president , who favor a two state solution, and who favor peaceful, nonviolent negotiation. On the other hand, hamas, about half, and centered primarily in gaza, who are opposed to as an israeli state, who want to retain the right to use violence to end the occupation, as they say, so both sides are divided. If any leader makes a concession, he gets domestic political lyricism. Well, if you not think there will ever be an agreement because the other guy is not sincere, your analogy take steps to move in that direction. That is of the core of this problem, and that is what has to be overcome. Aaron on the issue of hamas, first of all, they were elected in 2006, so they are legitimate government in gaza, whether or not the u. S. Of hamas, first of or israel like them or not. On the issue of statehood hasnt hamas accepted israels right to exist within its borders because, as has said we would accept a palestinian state in the occupied territories. In doing so, you are basically saying we recognize israel, even if we do not directly do it. Mr. Mitchell well, first off they won a parliamentary election. Their government is divided into an executive and a parliament. They did not win the presidency. What was at stake was the parliamentary election. President abas remain the democratically elected leader of the country. They, then, in a violent uprising defeated the forces and evict them from gaza, and seized both executive and parliamentary control in gaza, so lets be clear about that. They did not win control of gaza in an election. They won control of gaza in a military action, which expelled the forces of the Palestinian Authority. Secondly thomas has prevented hamas has prevented any election occurring since then. They have criticized abas as illegitimate because he has not been reelected since his term expired. The reason he has not been reelected if they will not permit an election to occur in gaza, and there are questions about whether an election could occur in jerusalem as well. Second, on the issue of thomas and hamas and israel you say passively, i will do this but not expressly, you would be suspicious. Israel rightfully is. Hasmas does not say we passively recognize israel. Others say it. They say we are against israel. We have to be careful about implying a believe in someone that states the opposite belief in someone that states the opposite. Rather, i think, you should rely on their actions. I always felt that if we could get real talks going between the Palestinian Authority and israelis that had a serious basis for proceeding, that is the best way to draw hamas in and get them to reverse their positions that now represent the impediment to their participation. Amy senator mitchell, i wanted to ask you a different question. We have been following the strange case of rick bork, the population of countries, what is happening privatization of countries, which is happening at a great level. There are many that invested in this Columbia University aig, you did, Frederick Burk did. In the end, the money was stolen, and as rick bergs attorney said, it was victor caused me, a check criminal, who still the money. He lives happily today on Election Night in the bahamas. Ultimately, the only person that went to jail was rick bourke. The Government Accountability office called him a whistleblower, yet he has come out of jail. Or you believe he is a whistleblower, and you believe he should be exonerated. And you believe he should have been exonerated . Mr. Mitchell i do not think he should have been convicted in the trial. I think it was an unfortunate circumstance, and as you describe, regrettable from rick bourkes standpoint. Amy do you believe he should now be exonerated, to be able to clear his name fully . Mr. Mitchell yes but im not sure what process would occur. He was tried, convicted. The conviction was upheld on appeal. But, as i said, i repeat, i do not believe he should have been convicted in the first place. Amy senator George Mitchell, thank you for joining us. Senator mitchell served for the u. S. Special envoy for middle east peace under president obama from 2009 to 2011. He previously served under president bill clinton, as the special envoy for northern ireland, where he helped broker the belfast Peace Agreement of 1998. Before that, mitchell served as a democratic senator from maine for 15 years, including as Senate Majority leader from 1989 to 1995. This is democracy now. When we come back, were talking about indiana. Stay with us. [music break] amy we are the wave, sung by harry belafonte. This is democracy now democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Aaron indiana has come under fierce criticism following governor mike pences new religious freedom restoration act that could sanction antilgbt discrimination by allowing Business Owners to refuse service to lgbt customers in the name of religious freedom. The move has drawn widespread outrage with connecticut becoming the first state to officially boycott indiana over the move. San francisco and seattle have also imposed bans on cityfunded travel to the state. Nine chief executive officers, including the heads of angies list and eli lilly, wrote letters asking indiana state officials to take immediate action to ensure the act will not sanction or encourage discrimination. Tim cook, ceo of apple, the worlds most profitable company, slammed indianas law and others like it, likening it to the jim crow laws of the american south. Writing in a Washington Post that apple would oppose the legislation, saying, quote, the days of segregation and discrimination marked by whites only signs on shop doors, water fountains and restrooms must remain deep in our past. We must never return to any semblance of that time. America must be a land of opportunity for everyone. Amy on saturday, thousands of people marched in indianapolis calling for pences resignation. Former nba star charles barkley, are calling for the upcoming final four College Basketball championship, to be moved out of state. Speaking to abc news, pence refused to answer whether it will be illegal to discriminate against lgbt people. Governor pence this is not about discrimination. George let me try to pin you down if a florist in indiana refuses to serve a gay couple at their wedding, is that legal now in indiana . Governor pence george, this is where the debate has gone with misinformation. George answer the question, sir, yes or no. Governor pence there has been shameless rhetoric about my state, this law, and its intent, all over the internet. People are trying to make it about one issue, now you are doing that as well. Amy that was Abcs George Stephanopoulos questioning governor pence. For more, we are joined by eunice rho is advocacy and policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties union. Welcome to democracy now talk about the law. Eunice thank you for having me. There was a long passed following a native american was dismissed from his job and denied unemployment benefits. He challenged the decision as a burden on his religious belief, so the Supreme Court ruled against the native american religious believer. In response, congress and a to the federal religious freedom restoration act. Amy this is under president clinton and this is what he keeps citing, were not doing anything clinton did or other states. Eunice and i have to be honest and say the aclu was part of a broad coalition. Fastforward to 2015, a different context. This law was introduced last year, and once a legislature failed to pass a ban on samesex marriage they followed it up in 2015 because they did not pass it last year, and this time around, the leadership said we are not intended for this law to be used to discriminate. We said great. We support religious freedom. We do not want it to be used to discriminate either. Lets clarify this, put it in the bill, and each of the amendments was voted down by the legislature that swore to a fitted not want this to be used to discriminate. At the signing of the bill, the governor had two organizations that are widely known to be antigay, and justified their support of the religious freedom act by saying that it can be used and it will be used to discriminate against lgbt people. I think all of the declarations, unfortunately, our refuted by evidence to the contract are refuted by evidence to the contrary. Aaron what about the governor saying 20 other states have this on the books . Eunice in terms of what the law can do, it allows anyone to voice a religious objective to any law or policy on the books and it would require the result to the court to resolve the dispute, but the test is stringent and difficult for the defending party because they have to show whatever policy being challenged furthers a compelling governmental interest, and applying that policy to the person that is trying to challenge it is the only way of achieving that interest. Amy i want to talk about the pictures you referred to of the private signing ceremony, the single graphics, rights glaad, the group against gay and lesbian discrimination one single graphic shows the lgbt animus behind indianas law. They say among those of the private ceremony were begun clark, curt smith, and eric miller, and they cited what some of them have said. Kurt smith acquainting homosexuality with the reality and adultery. Eric millionaire saying pedophilia is a sexual eric miller saying pedophilia is equating it to homosexuality nbc reality. Eunice there is knowledge vigorous effort to mitigate the damage done to indiana economically and reputational he. There is an effort to update the existing state civil rights law to include protection for lgbt people, and update the religious act that has been updated to be sure it cannot be used to discriminate. The Indiana Legislature has a month left in the session. I think the governor and the legislature have a real opportunity to fix the problem and ensure that indiana is open for everyone. Amy is arkansas next . Eunice yes, the religious freedom restoration act has passed the legislature. Amy the governor says he will sign. We will see what will happen. It is not just the people that governor governor pence expected that governor pence expected to be against this. He has ceos, the ncaa, other states not sending workers on the public dime, to indiana. Eunice i think we have helped by the public outcry, signaling a widespread understanding that lgbt equality is an American Value that we should all opposed. Im appreciative of the fact that the ceos were not just sending statements of support them but actually putting their money where their mouths are. Aaron obviously, the corporations have a lot of power and influence over policy decisions. Eunice absolutely, and other states contemplated similar laws relating need to Pay Attention to indiana, and their legislators and governors in those states should understand this is not only what the public not what the public wants, but it is also not sound for their state economy. Amy would it be solved by simply making lgbt people protected, that they cannot be discriminated against, or does it simply need to be revoked and should that happen in other states . Should the federal religious freedom law simply be overturned . Eunice i think one of the most encouraging parts of the dialogue is it is encouraging the reexamination of not only the indiana law, but existing law in other states. In states that have lgbt protection statewide, they should continue updating their religious freedom restoration act to make it Crystal Clear to the courts that their civil rights law are not up to debate. They should not be used to discriminate or harm against state citizens. Amy thank you eunice rho for joining us. She is advocacy and policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties union. She works with alcu offices across the country in their lobbying and advocacy work on laws pertaining to religious freedom. We will continue to follow this around the country. Aaron we and todays show with news that imprisoned journalist and former black panther Mumia Abujamal has been taken to the intensive care unit of Schuylkill Medical Center in pottsville, pennsylvania, after he was removed from prison for a medical emergency without any notification to his Family Friends or lawyers. Amy we are joined by by abujamals longtime friend johanna ramirez, who first discovered he was in the hospital monday morning when she went to visit him in prison and was told he had been taken to the intensive care unit at Schuylkill Medical Center in pottsville, pennsylvania. Welcome back to democracy now what has happened . Johanna he developed a severe eczema outbreak. He was in the infirmary early for approximately a week in the hospital, approximately a month ago. That means he has been undergoing medical evaluations or least that is a we have been told. Yesterday, he underwent a diabetic shock. Amy how do you know this . Johanna the prison informs his wife, and when pressured, they said he had been hospitalized in a local hospital, Schuylkill Medical Center in pottsville pennsylvania. Right now mumia has been sequestered. He has not been seen by any of his supporters, his next of kin. His brother was there. Ramona africa, they drove their from harrisburg, where the case of the silencing act was being heard before the Third Circuit court. Immediately, after that ended, they rushed up to pottsville and the doctors will not speak to us. They will not release information to the family. Meanwhile, he is shackled, probably, to a bed. There are four guards guarding him, and keeping us from the room, 10 feet away. We were able to see. Amy what do you feel needs to happen . Johanna we need to defend mumia s life immediately. He is an Enemy Territory right now. We need people to call the hospital schuylkill medical , center in pottsville pennsylvania. We need people to call the prison and demand that he bc by outside doctors. Amy thank you for being with us, johanna hernandez. That does it for the show a very happy birthday to mike burke. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to