Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20140403

Down limits on federal campaign donations, we will speak with independent vermont senator Bernie Sanders on wednesdays landmark decision and his effort to undo the 2010 Citizens United ruling edge open the floodgates are unlimited Corporate Cash in our elections. What will he do now . Than a deadly scandal at General Motors. When fixing the problem when it was discovered say the lives of many . Yes. Should gm be able to hide behind their bankruptcy not accept responsibility and liability of these young lives . No. In 2000 five, General Motors decided not to change a defective ignition switch redesign because it would have added about one dollar to the cost of each car. At least 13 people have died in accidents as a result. The number could be much higher. We will speak with the father whose 18yearold stepdaughter and another teenage girl died when their friends chevy cobalt crashed due to the defective ignition switch. We will also speak with Joan Claybrook, former head of the national highway Traffic Safety administration. All of that and more coming up. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Three people have been killed and 16 wounded by u. S. Soldier who opened fire at the Fort Hood Military base in texas, then took his own life. The gunman was identified as ivan lopez, an iraq war veteran who was being treated for mental illness. He was being evaluated for post somatic stress disorder, but had not yet been diagnosed. President obama reacted to the shooting during a trip to chicago. Were heartbroken that Something Like this might have happened again. I dont want to comment on the fact until i know exactly what is happened, but for now, i would just hope that everybody across the country is keeping the families and the community of fort hood in our thoughts and prayers. The folks there have sacrificed so much on behalf of our freedom. Many of the people there had been through multiple tours in iraq and afghanistan. They serve with valor and distinction. And when theyre at their home base, they need to feel safe. At least three of the surviving 16 victims are listed in critical condition, some suffering multiple gunshot wounds. Ft. Hood is the same base were 13 people were killed and 32 wounded in a 2009 shooting also by the u. S. Soldier. The Supreme Court has struck down a longstanding limit on how much donors can get to federal candidates, Political Parties, and Political Action committees in a twoyear election cycle. Without any aggregate limit, a donor can now get millions of dollars directed to candidates and parties. The five to four decision is being described as the next Citizens United for further removing barriers to big money in politics. We will have more after the headlines with independent senator Ernie Sanders of vermont. President obama continues a Public Campaign for a hike in an minimum wage to 10. 10 hour. Speaking to students at the university of michigan, obama said workers deserve a living wage. As americans, we understand that some people will earn more than others. But heres one thing we do believe. Nobody who works fulltime should be raising their family in poverty. [applause] if youre working, youre responsible, you should be able to pay the rent. There are always going to be folks who do critical work, who there tails every day airport workers, restaurant workers, hospital workers, retail salespeople who deserve an honest days pay for an honest days work. Doing necessary jobs, they should be able to make a living. Tauzins Apartment Building workers have marched in new york city ahead of an upcoming strike vote. Theyre seeking a new contract that offers higher pay for tax benefits. On wednesday, a large crowd marched through some of the citys wealthiest blocks on the upper east side. We want to make it right for everybody. Fair contracts. Ive got to work two jobs just to keep up. Newly leaked documents show the offices of two top tennessee republicans, senator bob corker and governor bill haslam, court made it with an effort to defeat a union drive at a local volkswagen plant earlier this year. In a blow to organized labor, volkswagen workers in chattanooga rejected unionization, declining to make their plant the first unionized foreignowned car factory in the United States. The union faced intense opposition from republican lawmakers including corker, who suggested the plant might miss out on future subsidies or on a new suv line if the union were approved. According to national tv station news channel five and the tosite in these times, aides senator corker and Governor Haslam had Extensive Communications with a prominent antiunion group and several other antiunion consultants. Abortion providers in texas have filed a federal lawsuit to block an antichoice role they say could shut down all but six ruining abortion clinics in the state. Provision, which takes effect in september, records abortion providers to meet hospitalstyle building requirements. It was passed as part of it sweeping antichoice bill challenged by texas state senator wendy both wendy davis. The new lawsuit also seeks to immediately block the laws requirement that abortion providers obtain it meeting privileges at a nearby hospital as it applies to to clinics in mcallen and el paso, which are among the last providers and their communities. One clinic was forced to close, leaving the poorest part of the state without illegal abortion provider. In a statement, the center for reproductive rights said meanwhile, lawmakers and mississippi have passed a bill banning abortion at 20 weeks with no exception for rape or. The bill takes effect 20 weeks after a womans last menstrual. Menstrual period. A law with a similar cut off in arizona has been permanently blocked by courts. Mississippi governor has pledged to sign the measure. Mississippi lawmakers have also passed a socalled religious freedom bill, as critics they would legalize to schema nation against lgbt people. The bill has been compared to the one vetoed in arizona earlier this year following a national uproar. A former Government Contractor whose case ignited a controversy over the obama administrations targeting of journalists has been sentenced to 13 months in prison. Steven kim was convicted earlier this year of leaking documents on north korea to fox news. Kim was charged under the espionage act, which was also used to classify fox News Reporter james rosen as a coconspirator in the case. Kim is the sixth official to be convicted of leaking documents under the obama white house. Is quitman giant caterpillar being accused of hiding billions of dollars in profits offshore to avoid paying taxes. A new Senate Report says caterpillar has exploited a tax loophole in switzerland to avoid taxes of 2. 4 billion in the United States. Instead, caterpillar was able to pay just 50 5 million. The worlds firstever treaty regulating the 70 billion global arms trade has moved a step closer to taking effect. On wednesday, 18 United Nations Member States ratified the measure, bringing the total number of ratifications to 31. 19 short of the 50 needed for it to enter force. Anna mcdonald urged through meaning holdouts to sign on. You now have the opportunity to lead by example. All governments are responsible for the arms trade in the to act to make sure it is brought under control. Apply the treaties treachery of robust league and tonight arms transfers where there is a substantial risk that will be used for violations of human rights and humanitarian law, including genderbased violence. U. S. As the Worlds Largest weapons exporter will stop in sign the treaty last year, but has not yet ratified it over opposition in the u. S. Senate. In a victory for advocates of an open internet, the European Parliament has voted in favor of net neutrality, the principle of equal treatment for all internet traffic. The decision comes ahead of talks with the European Union on an overhaul of regulations for the telecommunications industry. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. As the 2014 election season gets underway, the Supreme Court has issued a major ruling on Campaign Finance in the case described by many as the next Citizens United. In a five to four vote wednesday, the courts conservative justices illuminated a longstanding limit on how much donors can give in total to federal candidates, party committees, and Political Action committees in a twoyear election cycle. Without any aggregate limit, a donor cannot give millions of dollars directly to candidates and parties. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the majority opinion in an unusual dissent from the bench, Justice Stephen breyer said the decision judge breyer went on to say meanwhile, Justice Clarence thomas said he agreed with the majority opinion, but he wrote separately to say he would have gone further and wiped away all contribution limits. For more we go to capitol hill where we are joined by senator Bernie Sanders, independent senator from vermont. Last year he introduced a constitutional amendment to overturn the Citizens United ruling that allowed unrestricted, secret campaign spending. Sanders was elected to the u. S. Senate in 2006 after serving 16 years and the house of representatives. Back tosanders, welcome democracy now can you first share your response to the Supreme Court decision . , it was a disastrous decision following on the footsteps of Citizens United. Amy, in my view, what the justices, what the rightwing justices are talking about is freedom of speech for billionaires and large corporations that own american democracy. At a time when we are ready have enormous income and wealth inequality in this country, what the justices are saying is that these very same people can now basically purchase the United States government, can spend unlimited sums of money on elections, and i think that is a disaster for the foundation of american democracy. Could you pass a law that says contributions must be made transparent, and sooner than they are now . You get past that law. There has been a bill around that we did not get republican support for, but it doesnt go far enough. In the real world, as is what is going on. In the real world, you families like the Koch Brothers and he saw the spectacle last week in las vegas of Sheldon Adelson. These people, amy, have billions of dollars. 80Koch Brothers are worth billion. For them to pop a few billion dollars and to the political coffers, Sheldon Adelson could respect to of disrespect of nominees to come before him respective nominees to come before him so maybe he can anoint them with his hundreds of millions of dollars, is just an outrage through the struggles that people have undertaken in this country for democracy. And by the way, if you listen thomasly, what justice was talking about, and this is where the republicans want to go make no mistake about it, they say this is not enough. What we want, Republican Party and justice thomas, is to lift all limitations so the Koch Brothers were itll send can port millions of dollars directly into every rightwing candidate. John boehner. What i think this means is freedom of speech is being upheld. You all have the freedom to write what you want to write and donors and i have the option to give what we want to get. This goes back to this bizarre bill passed that has distorted the political process in ways that no one no one who voted for it ever believed. Some of us understood what was going to happen. It is pushing all this money outside the Party Structure and these other various forms. I am all for freedom. Congratulations. House speaker john boehner. Senator sanders, your response . In a sense, boehner is right. He is talking about freedom for a few hundred of the wealthiest people in the country. If you go to the average person and say, guess what . We are giving you more freedom. Previously you can only spend 120 5,000 in direct contributions, now you have the freedom to spend 4 million or 5 million. People will look at you like youre crazy. This is freedom for a handful of the wealthiest people in this country to undermine american democracy and to buy elections. That is, in my mind, not what democracy is supposed to be about. Let me add this, because i think a lot of people have concerns about the economy, health care, the environment. They say, this is not all that important. They are wrong. Folkstand what these want. Most of the people who are contributing, the billionaires who are contributing to the political process. Look at what the Koch Brothers agendas about. It is to end social security, and that a care as we know it and medicaid and cut federal aid to education, do away with the Environmental Protection agency so these kinds guys can pollute and pollute. This is a decision that will impact every americans life for giving more power to the wealthy. In my view, moving this country away from a Democratic Society into an oligarchic society. How does the mccutchen decision compared to Citizens United . It is a bad decision for not as bad in my view of Citizens United. Ok, this decision says is, you can spend 5 million in direct contributions to candidates. That is bad. What Citizens United says is, you can go into her Corporate Treasury your Corporate Treasury and spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. One last point on that, both obama and mitt romney spent a little over 1 billion in their campaign. I suspect in the next president ial campaign, the Koch Brothers themselves will spend 1 billion to elect the candidate of their choice. So what are you planning to do about this . I think we have to move forward in a couple of directions. The first point we have to move our direction we have to move in is to overturn Citizens United. That requires the constitutional amendment. There are many hundreds of cities and towns throughout the country who have gone on record in supporting overturning Citizens United. I think there are 16 or 17 states that have done that. This is an interesting point. I do not believe this is simply a progressive versus conservative issue. There are many who say, you know what . Forid not fight and die handful of billionaires to control the political process. I think we can put together a strong coalition. We have to focus on that. The second thing we have to do, we need to move the public comeng of elections exactly the opposite of what boehner was talking about. He talks about freedom of billionaires to buy elections. Our job is to say to the billionaires, sorry, youre not going to buy elections. Everyone should have the opportunity to run for office whether you have a lot of money or not. What about your plans and 2016, senator sanders . Are you considering running for president of the United States . What i said is i am considering running for president. We are a long way from elections. I have a long time before i have to make that decision. The reason i made or said that is not because i wake up in the morning with a burning desire to be president. That is really not the case. I happen to believe there are such enormous issues out there that i just dont want to be swept under the rug. The middleclass of the country is disappearing. We have more People Living in poverty than ever before. The gap to tune a very, very rich and everybody else is growing wider. Facing a great environmental crisis. We have real unemployment. It is 12 . We need to create millions of jobs. We need to be able to issue we have been talking about election reform. This is a critical moment in american history. The same old, same old is not going to cut it. Apparently, a lot of pressure was brought on senator Elizabeth Warren not to run from the Hillary Clinton i cant say campaign because she has been announced. Are you feeling that kind of pressure . No, im not. I have a lot of respect for elizabeth. She does a great job in the senate. The issue to me is to make sure that the needs of working families, the needs of the middle class, the needs of lowerincome people get a fair shot, that they are being heard and the ideas that we need to transform American Society are getting out there. The minimum wage . President obamas push for 10. 10 . We have got to go higher than that im a bit 10. 10 is a good start. We have got to go higher than that, at 10. 10 is a good start. We also have to do deal with the tip situation of waiters and waitresses. If were are talking about lowering the number of People Living in poverty, giving people a little dignity, we have to start at least raising the minimum wage to 10. 10. It has to go further than that. But we need are Massive Jobs Program in this country to create millions of jobs. We can do that by transferring our Energy System away from fossil fuels to energy efficiency, and sustainable energy. And vermont is going toward a kind of singlepayer plan in the next few years. That is right. I am a strong advocate of the medicare for all, singlepayer program. I think we should all take a deep breath and ask why it is that the United States is the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care for everyone as a right, yet with tens of millions uninsured, we spent almost twice as much per capita on health care as to the people of any other country. I do believe health care is a right. I believe singlepayer is the way to go. If we do it well and vermont, i suspect other states will follow. Nsa surveillance. Your stance from the usa patriot act to what has been exposed until now . I voted against the usa patriot act on two occasions. I feared very much what is happening. I think you have agencies like the nsa, cia for that matter, who are pretty much out of control and under the guise of fighting terrorism has taken a giant step in undermining the in theutional right privacy rights of the american people. I think there is no excuse for capturing the phone calls and selling the phone calls of virtually every american. No excuse, and my mind, for getting into the emails and visiting the websites that people are watching. To bef course, we have vigorous and protecting this country against terrorism. But theres no question in my mind, the agencies have gone far beyond where they should be going. Senator Bernie Sanders, i know you have to leave, thank you for speaking to us from the rotunda in washington, d c thetor sanders is independent senator from vermont. Last year he introduced a constitutional amendment to overturn the Citizens United ruling that allowed unrestricted, secret campaign money. He is a long serving independent member of congress in u. S. History. When we come back, we will go to mother jones reporter to talk about just to show mccutchen is, the Supreme Court decision was called mccutchen versus sec. We will speak with andy kroll. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. As we continue our look at wednesday Supreme Court decision in the case of the kitchen versus Joan Claybrook described ,y many as versus fec described by many as the neck Citizens United. Joining us now is andy kroll. He is written extensively about Campaign Finance and dark money. Welcome. Why dont you first tell us who Shaun Mccutcheon is. What is this case based on . Shaun mccutcheon is a wealthy businessman from alabama who during the 2012 elections decided that he wanted to cut a bunch of checks to rightleaning candidates he supported and he actually made them out and then may day now. He found he could write several dozen checks, 27 of them, but could not write the 28th. Yet bumped up against the aggregate limit. This overall limit that was at issue. With the urging of some conservative lawyers and have ultimately, the whole Republican Party, Shaun Mccutcheon took his case to court and said, i dont think you should be able to stop me from writing as many 1776 checks as i want. Knowing what the Roberts Court the way it is, his challenge stood a good chance of succeeding and file the case well over a year ago and has taken it to the top. Yesterday we saw the court agreed with him. The statement of Shaun Mccutcheon praising the decision, he said so can you respond to that . What exactly did the Supreme Court decision does it mean well, for the 2014 midterm elections . It has empowered this very tiny slice of wealthy americans were fired up about politics and want to throw their money around in a whole new way. Before this decision yesterday,. 1 ou were a wealthy 1 or and wanted to get involved in politics, you had options of forming a super pack were giving to a super pac. They can raise and spend limited amounts of money. You could also give to a nonprofit group. These are the shadowy entities that the Koch Brothers like to use that also accept and raise or spend unlimited amounts of money. Now for the 2014 election, you can also cut checks of 2. 3 million to support a whole array of congressional candidates. You can write a check for more than 10 million to Political Action committees. So this decision is going to reshape the world, but really for a tiny amount of people in this country who have that kind of means, and now they can also in addition to giving to superpac, they can also give money to parties and candidates. It is another option for very tiny slice of our population. During oral arguments for mccutchen versus the federal Election Commission, Justice Antonin Scalia questioned your verrilli,general on who defended limits on combined campaign contributions. Scalia argued even if the limits are lifted, allowing her daughter to give reply 5 million to candidates and parties during the twoyear time frame, that amount would be small compared to the large sums spent during election season. Summit issue gives the maximum to every possible candidate in party he can ,ontribute to the United States 3. 5 million, to put that in perspective, how much money is andt by Political Parties pacs in all elections draw the country . I think that is a good point, justice scalia. Elections. 10 each party spent for parties and candidates together spent approximately 1. 5 billion. And what about pacs . That i dont have the specifics. It has been a lot. And what about newspapers that spend a lot of money in endorsing candidates and promoting the candidacy . I suppose you have to put in that money, too, because that is money directed to political speech. When you add all of that up, i dont think 3. 5 million is a heck of a lot of money. Justiceis just a antonin scalia. Can you explain that for us, andy kroll . The solicitor general was giving examples of how if the court did agree with Shaun Mccutcheon, donors would be able to cut seven and eight figure checks to Political Parties and candidates. The 3. 5 million number has been tossed around in the election cycle. Scalia sort of takes a very common and i think disingenuous approach amongst conservatives to say, compare that how much we spent on elections and that is just a drop in the bucket. Saidery much money, as he there. The to the average person, 3. 5 million in terms of political speeches is a huge figure. If you talk to members of congress are people running for office, read . 5 million from a single donor absolutely is free . 5 million from a single donor absolutely is huge. Thinking about the ramifications, their decision, and knowing now that a donor has the ability to write this sevenfigure check to make either they agree with you or dont agree with you, think your party is good or bad. As senator john mccain who actually supports war finance Campaign Finance regulation, he thinks the court is made about how the campaigns influence washington. I think senator mccain is onto something there. Talk about the unusual reading of the dissent by Justice Breyer from the bench. Justice breyer, he completely disagreed with chief justice mccutcheon asn in well as clarence thomas. He went further and said, lets just nuke Campaign Finance regulation entirely. Justice breyer really thinks the Roberts Court takes up far too narrow definition of what is actually corruption, and thus, what can we regulate and what cant we regulate . Justice breyer believes the Roberts Court has narrowed the definition of what corruption potentially donors putting money in the back pocket of the lawmaker, and narrowed it to the degree to which, basically, no Campaign Finance regulation cant stand anymore. Justice breyer has been very politicssaying, look, doesnt just work like that, corruption doesnt just work like that, there are bigger things at play. The moxie doesnt work when you have donors basically free to write checks democracy doesnt work when you have donors basically free to write checks. Breyer has been outspoken about that. His dissent was quite a read yesterday. I recommend it to anyone who wants to wrap your head around this issue. Andy kroll, talk about how these campaignfinance regulations were put into play. Go back to watergate. A little bit of a history lesson. Before watergate, there really was no strong regulation of how many flows into our politics. You have the watergate scandal which at the core was not campaignfinance scandal. You have a wave of lawmakers swept into office who were proreform, who supported more regulation or some kind of system for how our campaign and elections work. You had the creation of the federal Election Commission in the wake of watergate. Law, the regulation after watergate is challenged in court, the case is noted buckley versus valeo and the opinion in 1976 in that case, the Supreme Court decision says that, yes, it is ok, you can put limits on contributions me the donor giving to the candidate. You can put this overall limit like this aggregate limit like in mccutcheon, the court said there is a real interest in protecting against corruption and the appearance of corruption. The kind of corruption was on the watergate scandal in many instances before that. That is sort of the bed rock of the system we have now. And what we have seen since 1976, practically, is a systematic effort by conservatives and libertarians to demolish that bedrock. Andy kroll, how this will affect the states individually . There are a dozen states that have similar overall limits on the books. And those limits are about to be destroyed. It is just a matter of time before the attorney general in the Election Administrators says coppa well, our limits are constitutional, too. Ins decision will resonate congress and elsewhere. Andy kroll, thank you for being with us, Senior Reporter and mother jones magazine where he has written extensively about campaignfinance and dark money. When we come back, we go to washington to talk about gm. How many people have died because gm decided not to fix an ignition switch that cost them maybe one dollar a car. Stay with us. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. 2006, two teenage girls died in a mysterious car crash in wisconsin. Withinold amy died hours after the crash. 18yearold the tosha died after 11 days in a coma. Car driver of this car survived with brain damage. For years, the families of the girls attempted to learn what happened. It received some of their answers this week when the ceo of General Motors was called to testify before the senate over a growing scandal. In recent months, gm has recalled millions of cars after pillaging faulty ignition switches shut down engines and disabled air bags. The defects have been linked to at least 13 deaths and possibly hundreds. Internal gm documents show the company decided not to change the defective ignition switch redesigned in 2005, because it would have added about one dollar to the cost of each car. During Wednesdays Senate hearing, the most hardhitting questions came from democratic senator Claire Mccaskill of missouri. A former prosecutor who chairs the Senate Subcommittee on consumer protection. She criticized gm for what she called the culture of coverups and said a gm engineer like and asked last year but whether the defective part had been changed. A culture of coverup that allowed an engineer at General Motors to lie under oath. Repeatedly. Old gmt have been the the started sweeping this defect under the rug 10 years ago, but even under the new gm, the company waited nine months to take action after being confronted with specific evidence of this egregious violation of public trust. Thousands of my constituents in st. Louis and kansas city areas go to work for General Motors every day, building some of the finest cars on the road. I am proud of them and proud of their work. This is not their failure. They and the American Public were failed by a Corporate Culture that shows to conceal rather than disclose. Thatiosafety regulator failed to act. To talk more about gm, were joined by, stepfather of natasha weikel who died in 2006 accident. He was among the victims family members who met with company ceo terry bharat on sunday evening. Are also joined by Joan Claybrook, former head of the national highway Traffic Safety administration. I want to go first to mr. Reimer. Talk about what happened to your stepdaughter am a tuna tosha. Natasha. She and her friends took a side trip and headed into a local town to do a little shopping. On the way back home from there, on the side roads, not the freeway, only car on the road at the time, what we found out through all of the accident investigation, the car shut off and within five seconds, the steering will lock, no power brakes were steering, in the air bags dismantled, they went over in adjoining driveway on the road, which caused him to go airborne. They crashed through a tep box and collided with a group of trees that caused the damage. What did you understand happened at the time . Kind of all we knew at the the black box did show the car shut off. We did not know why. We did not have an answer why. Our assumption was you have three teenage kids riding in a car and just about anything can happen. And then megan, the survivor, with the damage, the head injuries she had any extensive physical damage coppa she was a longtime recuperating. We did not get a chance to really talk to her very much after the accident. She has survivor skills. She survived and her friends didnt. She always looked at it as the accident was her fault. She kind of kept clear from us or state clear from us and moved , even. Her state copp not to get dust away from us, as she was getting a lot of accusations from her friends. One of the 13 peoples that gm acknowledges as well as amy, the 15yearold who died, are they two of the 13 people that gm acknowledges died in these crashes with the defective ignition switches . We havent seen anything in print that justifies it or says it exactly. On our first tape episode we did with the cbs announcer back in february, the producer did call me within a day or so when we were putting the segment together and not sure where he got the information, but he did verify that this was at the back in february, he called me and tell me he did verify six. Natasha was one of the so i would have to assume that amy was one of those six individuals as well. When did you understand it was the ignition switch . I guess upon the recall well, ive seen the bulletin, whatever, the Service Bulletin from gm. We had copies of that after the accident when we were trying to piece everything together to find out what happened. WithService Bulletin said a heavy keychain, the ignition could be turned. The black box did show the ignition turned off within five seconds prior to the accident happening. We knew the switch turned off, we just werent 100 sure it was mechanical or some other thing that caused it. Now knowing everything we do, everything we have read and heard and everything that gm is putting out, it is obvious that it was the ignition switch went to the accessory position and shut off the car. That is exactly what caused that accident. You met with the head of gm mary barra. What did you say to her . Obviously, we tried not to have it as an accusation or point fingers. Realizes who we are. The whole idea was to put a face with the people that lost airlines that accident will stop who lost their lives in an accident. She is a mother as well. My wifes only child. It was just devastating and has been devastating to her. We just wanted to say, mary am a this is what happened. This is what happened from what gm did or did not do. That was the whole idea. She gave a short speech when we first got there, a sickly sanction apologized to each one of us basically saying she apologized each one of us specifically. From there, she mentioned she cant change what happened in the past, but putting every effort she can to change how gm is hailing things in the future. Have you sued gm . We have filed a lawsuit. I think it was filed about two weeks ago. Quick in response to a question from democratic senator blumenthal of connecticut, mary barra says she would allow her if to drive a chevy cobalt he only had the ignition key. The testing that has been done has been on our proving ground that has extensive capability where the vehicle would be jarred and with just the keyword the key in the ring, it has performed. Is it your testimony today those cars are a safe as any other car on the road today . Again, as you look across all the Safety Technology that is on vehicles from the past to present, there is variation aced on the technology on cars today. There is variation with across the whole population. As driven cobalt car now, save for your daughters to drive . If my son only had the ignition key, i would allow him to drive it. That was gm Ceo Mary Barra being questioned by senator blumenthal of connecticut. I want to bring in Joan Claybrook to the conversation, former head of the national highway Traffic Safety administration. Ager questions being raised about why the agency did not regulate gm properly. Times, the new york to write the list of victims is now said to be 13. We are not really clear if natasha and amy, the two young women we were just speaking about, 18 and 15 years old, are even part of this list of 13 or if 13 is an accurate number. Joan claybrook . Wewithout that information, just dont know. My belief is the call centers General Motors set up with 50 people answering the phones has probably resulted with a lot of information we dont yet know about, either. The number could be much higher. We had families come to washington for a press conference to meet the senators and representatives and with mary barra and so on. 13ould say there were almost deaths involved with just our group. And that is not all the people who have lost loved ones. We just dont know what the numbers are. What about the failure . Go back to the beginning, as you have reconstructed it. You have been head of the major Transportation Agency and you have been a watchdog for so many decades. Talk about what you believe happened with gm. In terms of what the national highway Traffic Safety administration does, i think they really fail fell down on the job. They have some concept that is inaccurate. You have to establish a trend in order to open an on the defect. That is inaccurate. For years, the agency has said if there is a design defect in a failurethat can cause and is a critical safety part that can cause death or injury, that is a safety defect. You do not have to have body bags all over the highway in order to say we have established a trend. This was somewhat complicated because they werent sure why the airbags were not inflating initially. But as soon as they found out the ignition switch was turning hint. Hat was a very large the agency complained that it could not make a finding or even open an investigation until it got more information from General Motors, which was not forthcoming. I find that to be unacceptable because the agency has subpoena power. Has research and testing power. It has a lot of power. It really just did not apply the capacity that it had. I would add they have a very small budget, so theres a lot agency,tance at the unfortunately, to open investigations they do not see an end to or provide information they will need. The agency has a 10 lane dollar budget for all defects across the entire United States. That is less than mary barra makes every year. The whole agency only has a budget of 134 million, which is a pittance. This agency is really handicapped. I believe we are going to need some legislative changes in order to both the terror other companies deter other companies and facilitate the agency. Someone a General Motors had switched out the unsafe ignition switches in several car models and covered it up by using the same part number for the same switch, the new switch. The simple work of the engineer hired by the trial lawyer representing the mountains had discovered the defective part and its replacement with the same number. And when mr. Cooper confronted General Motors, their lead switch engineer with the evidence of the parts which, he lied. I guarantee you if i am a lawyer and i am in a deposition where this bombshell has been dropped on my client come a there are two identical were two different parts with the same number, one of which is defective, i guarantee you i dont go back and tell the folks at the law firm, im on my cell phone in the lobby saying to General Motors, weve got a problem. What i want to know, what investigation began after that deposition . That is part of the investigation so you dont know whether or not anything happen after that investigation . I dont have the complete facts to share with you today. Mccaskill confronting mary barra. A key piece of documentary evidence in the litigation concerning a part that was changed without a part number change, if it is spelled out it is spelled out in this document for anyone to read. How does that happen . I cannot i dont condone not providing information when requested in a legal proceeding. If that was done, we will deal with the individuals accountable for that. I think it is very important that we find out how many cases this document was provided to counsel in when it was requested , clearly, it is within the scope. Theres not a request documents that the scope did not include this document. I want to know how many cases they buried this document. This is what happens in america. Corporations think they can get away with hiding documents from litigants. And there will be no consequences. I want to make sure there are consequences for hiding documents. This is hiding the truth from families that need to know. It is outrageous. That was senator mccaskill of missouri. She helped the New York Times identifying one of the 13 victims that they believe are in that 13 list who died as a result of the ignition defect. I want to ask you, Joan Claybrook, Michael Moore wrote im opposed to the death penalty, but to every rule there is usually an exception and in this case, i hope the criminals at General Motors will be arrested and made to pay for their premeditated decision to take human lives from lousy 10. Can you talk about criminal liability here over these years . We have been trying since 1966 to get, no penalties into the department of Transportation Safety statute. We have always failed because the Auto Companies have opposed vigorously. But i think the time has now come to put a requirement that if an auto company knowingly and willfully covers up or refuses to disclose a safety defect or noncompliant safety standard, that theyre liable to criminal sanctions. That would include jail time as well as a dollar amount. It is really passed time for that. The toyota case where they also did a coverup with a runaway cars, sudden acceleration cars, u. S. Attorney using the power and the Justice Department statute for covering up documents found a 1. 2 billion penalty for toyota, but did not put anybody in jail. It is my belief that until some auto manufacturer employees, whether is the top or middle or whoever did a coverup, go to defectivellowing a system to kill people, that we are never going to have any understanding within the company of how that culture has to change and safety has to be the number one priority. The other things i think need to ,e done, higher Civil Penalties the amount to be unlimited with 5,000 per vehicle per violation. That could add up to billions of dollars. And also, we ought to have less at the national highway Traffic Safety agency. It is very difficult to get any information out of them. Two were talking about our major huge entities that are supposed to be devoted to safety , the department of transportation and the Auto Companies, and both of them have failed to do their job. Ntsa is not the cop on the beat. It has put false requirements that they have to find a trend in order to make a defect finding. That is totally inaccurate. That has never been the case at the agency until recently. It ought to be abandoned. They ought to look at there is a design defect in a vehicle and it can happen, we know it can occur, and he can kill, that is a safety defect and that ought to be totally clarified. There ought to be authority for challenges to the failure or refusal of the department of transportation to initiate a recall. That authority is not there. So they never feel inside the agency that they will be challenged. Joan claybrook i want to point out General Motors was doing this, saying it was being bailed out by u. S. Taxpayers. So it was knowingly killing the very taxpayers who were bailing them out because they were not willing to change a one dollar ignition switch. Thats correct. Complicationer here, if you would, for General Motors. But it really is very disturbing for the American Public. Do you believe gm executives and workers in the company should be held criminally liable for the death of your daughter, ken rimer . They were aware the switch was not correct. All to the organization, i can just put the blame on one person, but there are many there that made that decision. There are also many more that made the decision to hide that. They need to be held accountable for those decisions that they made and rather process, not just the guy that signed off the original paper, but his supervisor and all the way up the chain of command. Ken rimer, condolences on the death of her 18 year old stepdaughter natasha who died in a car crash in 2006, along with her friend. Also want to thank Joan Claybrook for joining us. Democracy now is looking for im john cleese. I think we all know that music, aside from the pure pleasure of it, sometimes has a transcendent power. What is called sacred music seems universally to be a form of prayer, a vehicle for spiritual practice, because music and sound are so clearly connected to our higher selves. So now were in for a special treat, because the reverend alan jones and native singer Joanne Shenandoah are going to give us the opportunity