prejean. it is the 20 anniversary of her best selling book became a feature film. we will also be joined by bill pelke. >> 15-year-old paula cooper took a knife from her purse and began to stab my grandmother. my grandmother was that 33 times with that 12 inch butcher knife. july 11, 1986, the state of indiana sentenced paula cooper did that in to become the youngest that row inmate in our country. at that time i was in favor of the death penalty. about four months after paula cooper was sentenced to death during a special reflection, i became convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that my grandmother would have had compassion. >> on monday, the state of indiana released paula cooper from prison. bill pelke has traveled to indiana with the hope of meeting cooper. but first reports from the massive protests in turkey and brazil. and we remember the journalist michael hastings. he died in a car crash on tuesday. the reporter who brought down stanley mcchrystal and expose the grim realities of war was just 33 years old. all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the u.s. and taliban have agreed to a new round of formal talks on ending the war in afghanistan. delegates from both sides will meet in doha this week for the first negotiations in over a year. the obama administration will send a delegation of senior state department and white house officials. the agenda item is said to include the taliban's ties to al qaeda and the potential swapping of prisoners. speaking from the g-8 summit in northern ireland, president obama said the u.s. will continue military operations in afghanistan while pursuing what he expects to be a slow diplomatic track. >> we are going to continue to support these efforts in partnership with the afghan government. i want to repeat, we don't anticipate this process will be quick or easy, but we must ourue it in parallel with military approach. in the meantime, we remain fully committed to our military efforts to defeat al qaeda and support the afghan national security forces. >> the afghan government will not play a direct role in this week's talks, but says it will be the process going forward. on tuesday, afghan president karzai said he expects the negotiations will move to afghanistan after an undeterred -- undetermined number of meetings in doha. confusion emerged late earlier today. karzai reportedly objects to the taliban naming its new political office in qatar, the islamic emmert of afghanistan. on the taliban side, the negotiations were directly approved by the taliban leader in hiding since his invasion of afghanistan in 2001. on tuesday, taliban spokesperson disavowed the use of afghan soil to threaten other countries, a precondition that allows it to open its new office in doha. >> [indiscernible] onduring president's stance u.s. military operations, the taliban has pledged to continue armed attacks and u.s. forces even as the negotiations are held. the diplomacy news comes as the u.s.-led nato occupation is formally completed its transfers to control the afghan government. nato forces are officially deemed to be in a support role to the afghan military up until their expected withdrawal in 2014. a nato commander told reporters he is a long running the afghan war. >> last week i was responsible for security here and afghanistan. today, as a result of that ceremony, the responsible the isn't beyond -- on behalf of president karzai. fact instatement of terms of who has been secured a responsibility in afghanistan. >> top u.s. intelligence officials appeared before congress on tuesday to detail what they claim to be the role of nsa surveillance programs in foiling militant attacks. nsa director keith alexander said over 50 potential terrorist events have been thwarted, including 10 within the u.s. >> in recent years, these programs together with other intelligence unprotected the u.s. and our allies from terrorist threats across the globe to include helping prevent the potential terrorist events over 50 times since 9/11. >> also those testifying was fbi joyceor -- director sean revealed two newly declassified cases, one involving a group of men in san diego convicted of sending money to a militant group in somalia. the other was described as a plot to bomb the new york stock exchange. andn essay was monitoring no interest in yemen. this individual was in contact with an individual in the u.s. alongould lead was on the with other individuals we identified through a fiser able to detect nascent plotting to bomb the new york stock exchange. was on the head of providing information and support to this plot. the fbi disrupted interested these individuals. >> despite his claims, the convict he named, khalid was on the, was never charged over a new york stock exchange bombing plot but instead pleaded guilty in 2010 to sending money to al qaeda. joyce cited the head of the -- nazan üstundag and david headley najibullah zazi and david headley. >> we intercepted an email from a terrorist located in pakistan. that individual was talking with the individual located inside the u.s. talking about perfecting a recipe for explosives. through legal process that individual was identified as najibullah zazi, located in denver, colorado. the fbi followed him to new york city. later, we executed search warrants with york joint terrorism task force and found on making components and backpacks. also david headley, in the u.s. citizen living in chicago, the fbi received intelligence regarding his possible involvement in the 2008 mumbai attacks responsible for the killing of over 160 people. the >> of the white house and lawmakers have repeatedly cited the cases of najibullah zazi and headley, some have questioned the role of the nsa surveillance and apprehension. citing court documents and interviews with about parties, the guardian of london reported last week data mining through a prism and other nsa programs played a relatively minor role in the interception of the two plots. president obama is in germany after attending the two day g8 summit in northern ireland. today he is unveiling plans for a further reduction of nuclear warheads on top of the cuts in the 2011 -- 2010 new start treaty with russia. the republican controlled house has approved a measure that would ban abortion after 22 weeks of pregnancy, which anti- choice activists believe marks the point which a fetus can feel pain. the vote was 228 to 196, mostly on party lines. it is the harshest anti-abortion bill in a decade to come before congress. the bill's sponsor, republican congressmember trent franks of arizona, sparked controversy when he claimed the rate of pregnancies resulting from rape is very low. president obama has vowed to veto the bill in the senate is unlikely to even bring it up for a vote. federal appeals courts have recently struck down similar measures in idaho and arizona, although other bans remain in place in several states. the aclu said -- for employees of the financial giant bank of america are claiming they were encouraged to push customers into foreclosure, including by lying. in sworn statements added to a multistate class-action lawsuit against bank of america last week, the employees describe regularly missing -- misleading homeowners seeking loan modifications and rejecting their applications for phony reasons. the employees allege bank of america use the federal government's home affordable modification program to rake in as much federal money as possible before ultimately foreclosing on the homeowners the program was meant to help. simone gordon, former low level representative said -- in return for their deceitful practices, the employees of the were paid cash bonuses. bank of america says the former employees' statements are rife with factual inaccuracies and has vowed to respond in court next month. targets of the new york police department's spying on muslim americans have filed a federal lawsuit against what they call unconstitutional religious profiling and suspicion less surveillance. in the years following the 9/11 attacks, the nypd secretly in futrell and muslim student groups, sent informants into mosques, eavesdropped on conversations, and greeted databases showing where muslims lived, worked, and prayed. the nypd admitted last year the spying failed to yield a single terrorism investigation or even a single lead. on tuesday, nyc muslims who were swept in the -- up in the spying filed a landmark lawsuit accusing police of all in their civil rights. one plan to describe his running with the man who turned out to be a police informant. >> in march 2012 and was approached by 19-year-old man who came to me telling me he was looking for spirituality and looking to change his ways and said he had a very dark past and wanted to be a better practicing muslim. i figured, what better way to have him perform its obligations and to join his organization? in october 2012 he said he was an informant for the nypd. i had a mixture of feelings when i found out rid i was terrified and afraid for my family, especially my younger sisters. i felt betrayed because someone but always a friend and brother was lying to me, and a statement, the aclu which helped file the suit said the plaintiffs are asking a federal court to stop the nypd's muslim surveillance program and a bar future spying based on religion in the absence of reasonable suspicion. the journalist michael hastings has died at the age of 33. hastings was killed in a car crash in los angeles early tuesday morning. reporting extensively from iraq and afghanistan, hastings widely read stories show the realities of war. his 2010 rolling stone article on general stanley mcchrystal, u.s. commander in afghanistan, sparked a political controversy after mcchrystal and his aides were quoted making disparaging remarks about top administration officials. the article exposed longstanding disagreements between civilian and military officials over the war's direction and led to general mcchrystal's firing. speaking to democracy now! in 2012, michael hastings of the afghan war, like the invasion of iraq, was based on a false premise. >> if wmd's were the big lie of the iraq war, the safe haven myth is the big lie of the afghan war. what i mean by that, and this was true in iraq as well, but 99% of the people, maybe even higher, the people were fighting whether it was sunni insurgents in iraq or shiite militias in iraq or afghanistan, the taliban never actually posed a threat to the u.s. homeland rid the question one has to ask oneself, if everything we're doing and everything we're fighting is not a threat to the united states, certainly not a direct threat by any means, then why are we spending some and resources, $120 billion a year, with all the lives lost, to do it? this is the big lie of counterinsurgency, which i know we have discussed on your show, to justify this tremendous outlay of resources. they have to say, we're killing terrorists. everybody knows that is not true. >> at the time of that interview, michael hastings had just come out with his book, "the operators: the wild and terrifying inside story of america's war in afghanistan." trees begin spreading across the internet tuesday evening after the news of his death. his former magazine rolling stone said -- in a statement provided to democracy now!, the film director oliver stone said -- in his first interview with democracy now! in 2010, michael hastings discussed the foundation he established to honor the memory of his once fiancé, andrea parhamovich, who was killed by an ied in iraq in 2007. >> the foundation is a fund that helps domestic scholarships we give out and along with the national democratic institute have an annual fellowship where we bring a young woman from a developing nation over to washington, d.c. to learn about human rights and democracy so they can go back to their own home countries and try to institute these rule of law programs. we brought over a woman last year from iraq. she was even able to spend christmas with family and the issue of another candidate who came over from i believe burma. on war has been pretty tough a lot of people. you just have to figure out a way to sort of take what happens and go forward and try to do the best to can. >> michael hastings speaking to democracy now! in 2010. he died on tuesday in hollywood in a car crash at the age of 33. you can go to democracynow.org to watch our archive of interviews with michael hastings. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. anti-government protests are continuing in turkey despite an increasingly violent state crackdown. on tuesday, turkish police arrested 87 people in a series of raids targeting those suspected of participating in weeks of anti-government protests. earlier today police used water cannons to disperse hundreds of protesters and the turkish capital. the turkish government is now threatening to send in armed troops into cities. meanwhile a performance artist named erdem gunduz has become the new symbol of the protest movement. nicknamed "the standing man," he attracted international attention for standing quietly in taksim square for eight hours on monday to protest the police crackdown on protesters. images and video of him standing silently in the square have gone viral and inspired similar passive resistance protests across turkey. >> for the latest from turkey with a istanbul where we're joined by nazan üstundag, an activist and scholar based in istanbul has been involved in the taksim square protests since they began. it is great to have you nazan üstundag back. can you talk about what is happening at this point that though the mass protests and more there was an agreement between the prime minister and protesters and word that agreement broke down, what are people still on the streets? >> there is a misunderstanding about that. there has not been actually an agreement with the prime minister. the prime minister said we should immediately evacuate the park and he will wait for the court decision, which is not a concession but a normal thing. i mean, he has to wait for the court's decision. he cannot override the court. there are quite to other demands the protesters have gone and he has not taken any of them seriously. in some put in the meeting he left the room, so there really was not an agreement. on our side, we were thinking of leaving the park any way and leave a symbolic tent just to show our good intentions. but before we could make a final decision on that, there was the police attack. there was still a disagreement and there was not any kind of concession made by the prime anister, but we were planning taksim solidarity platform was preparing to leave the park and just leave a symbolic tent, and that is when the police raids started. >> use a refer to four other demands the protesters' main, which the prime minister disregarded. could you explain what they were? ,> to stop the police violence particularly the use of gas, teargas and those kinds of different kinds of chemical gases because there are differing versions of that. the other one was the release of those who have been taken into custody but actually, after that, 400 more people have been taken under custody and 100 were taken out of their homes in the morning raid. it was not even during the action were taken into custody. those were the two demand spurred the third was the prime minister -- sorry, not the prime minister. that the governor and police or beof istanbul resign held accountable for what they have done. four people have died, not only for people have died, 8000 people have been wounded and 59 of them are still in serious condition. over 15 people have lost their eye. thefourth demand was government's take back its proposal to destroy gezi park. >> this is the prime minister gordon speaking tuesday, describing the protesters as invaders. we did what we had to do and the state of law. we have cleared out busy square and taksim square of these invaders. they have destroyed everything. we are planting trees and flowers of any cut that was the prime minister. finalüstundag your comment, the the prime minister said. >> people are finding new ways to protest. we have the standing man, but that is not the only thing. we started to go to other parks in istanbul instead of gezi park we have distributed our group -- there are thousands and thousands of people attending every day. we're coming together in the public parks, discussing what we're going to do next, how we're going to organize and voice our democratic demands. what the prime minister said, again, is a live. -- is a lie. we have the right to associate and freely express ourselves. it is constitutional. he is lying. what he does is unlawful. we are trying to come together and make the world to hear our voice cannot organize ourselves even stronger and continue our resistance to this. >> nazan üstundag, activist and scholar, has been involved in the taksim square protests since they began. when we come back, we go to brazil and we're joined by sister helen prejean, the 20 anniversary of her famous book "dead man walking." we will look at the death penalty in america today. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> we turn to brazil which is witnessing some of its largest protests in decades. on monday, more than 240,000 protesters took to the streets across brazil. another 50,000 rallied last night in brazil's largest city. in response, the brazilian government is to plan the national public security force to five major cities. the protests were initially sparked an increase in bus fares but the uprising soon spiraled nationwide amid outrage over government corruption, inequality, failing public services, and police brutality against demonstrators. protesters has -- also condemned the high level of government spending on preparations for the 2014 world olympics in the 2016 summer olympics. this is an 80-year-old protester. >> we took a long time to wake up. what we have here is a fake democracy. it is not democracy. against the political dictatorship, and now we're fighting -- >> to talk more about the protests, we're joined now by videostream by lucia nader, executive director of the brazil based human-rights group. she's been participating in the protests. what come to democracy now! how did these protests began? what sparked them? what are you demanding? >> good morning. a clamtests started as not to increase the bus fare in sao paulo. what happened is here in the city of sao paulo, we had to protests. last tuesday and last thursday. they were quite small and focused on the bus fare issue in the city. but there was a huge repression by the police using a lot of violence. some people from our group were there and suffered violence. ther the violence and after big repression from the police, all of the country has started to claim for other specific demands. some of them against the police violence, some against corruption, several of them still focusing on the bus fare. other people are asking for political reform and others questioning the spinach or with the world cup and what is being health. comparison on today in brazil we have a widespread national protest with very different claims. >> lucia nader, could you explain how the government has so far responded to the protests? >> the government, in brazil, we have three levels of government. , andthis city, the state the federal government in the state and city of sao paulo, it is quite an interesting situation because the city is covered by the workers' party, which is the same president rousseff. the state is governed by the opposition. to answer your question, at the all of the three levels of government were quiet about its or somehow supporting the violence by police on .hursday yesterday, president rousseff did in the opening of an event on tv and talk for five minutes about the situation, saying she is hearing what is coming from the streets and her government is trying to answer that. >> lucia nader, we have those comments she made on tuesday explaining the protests. thehis direct message from streets is to improve stability for better schools, for better hospitals, for better health services and for the right to participate. this direct message from the streets is to demand quality public transport at fair prices. the direct message from the streets is to reject corruption and the poor use of public money. >> that is brazil's president rousseff. if you could respond to her and in this final comment, say where this protest you believe is headed. >> it is difficult to say where the protest is heading. is focusing onry several claims. this morning, some protests started and other parts of the city but not the rich neighborhoods as it was up until now. i believe it is healthy anyway that the population is on the street, but somehow we also fear a pathcussion is taking that can weaken the democratic institution and the several achievements brazil had in the last decade. >> lucia nader, thank you for being with us, participating in the protests, speaking to us from sao paulo. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. the hournd the rest of looking at a remarkable story of forgiveness and hope. on may 14, 1985, a group of teenage girls showed up at ruth pelke's home in gary, indiana with plans of robbing the elderly bible school teacher. three of the girls into the home under the pretense of wanting bible lessons while the fourth waited outside as a lookout. one of the girls grabbed a vase and hit pelke over the head. as she fell to the floor, another girl -- 15-year-old paula cooper -- took a butcher knife out of her purse and proceeded to stab the woman to death in total 33 times. >> cooper's three accomplices were sentenced to prison terms ranging from 25 to 60 years. cooper, who confessed to the slaying, was convicted of murder and sentenced to death by electric chair. at the age of 16, she became the youngest person on death row. paula herself was a victim of child abuse and attended 10 different schools by the time of her breast. >> paula cooper's case galvanized human rights activists and death penalty opponents around the world. her supporters included pope john paul lonmin to in the victim's grandson, bill pelke. in 1993, pelke helped organize a journey of hope to spread his "open the power of forgiveness and open the possibility of a world without violence." he spoke out against the death penalty to anyone who would listen. he partnered with renowned anti death penalty activist sister helen prejean. >> in 1989, paula cooper's sentence was commuted to 60 years but she was released early for good behavior and after earning a college degree behind bars. after nearly 30 years in prison, paula cooper's been given a second chance of her life. shortly before being released, she told the times of northwest indiana that she looks forward to starting life afresh. >> when i get out, i don't care if i have to sweep floors, wash dishes or flip hamburgers, i am one to take whatever i can get just to get on my feet and show people i deserve a chance. >> for more we go now to chicago where we're joined by the man largely responsible for saving paula cooper's life, bill pelke. he forgave paula for killing his grandmother, ruth pelke, and became an anti death penalty advocate in her memory. he is the co-founder of the organization journey of hope and author of the book, "journey of hope...from violence to healing." >> we're also joined by sister helen prejean, one of the world's most well-known and the death penalty activists. as a catholic nun, she began her prison ministry over 30 years ago. she's the author of the best- selling book, "dead man walking: an eyewitness account of the death penalty." the book has been translated into numerous languages and turned into an opera, a play, an academy award winning film starring susan sarandon and sean penn. helen prejean is also the founder of "survive," a victim's advocacy group in new orleans. she continues to counsel not only inmates on death row, but also the families of murder victims. we welcome you both to democracy now! , you travel from anchorage to indiana to see paula cooper when she was released. you have yet to see her, but explain this case and why you got so involved, coming out on behalf of paula cooper, the woman, the teenager, who killed your grandmother. >> it was about a year-and-a- half after my grandmother's death, about three at once after paula cooper have been sentenced to death, i became convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt my grandmother would have been appalled this girl was under the death penalty. i was convinced she would have loved for paula cooper and her family. i felt should what my family to have that same compassion and i felt a fell on my shoulders. convinced that is what my grandmother would want, in tears, i begged god to please, please, give me love and compassion for paula cooper and do it on behalf of my grandmother. i prayed in jesus' name. just a short prayer. i thought i could write your letter, share my grandmother state. i've realized that prayer, love, given.passion had been i learned about the healing power of forgiveness. my heart was touched with compassion, forgiveness became automatic. when it happened, it brought a tremendous feeling. it had been a year-and-a-half since my grandmother's death. lyingthought about her dead on her dining room floor. it was too painful to even think about when my heart was touch with compassion, i knew from that moment on, whenever i think about my grandmother again, i would no longer picture how she died but how she lived, where she stood for and believed in, the beautiful person she was. it is something to be shared with other people. that night i made guide to the promises. one, in six as second of my life i would give god the honor and glory. the second promise, any door that opened up as your results of for giving her and it is amazing but that was november 2, 1986. until this day out that those promises. >> paula cooper told the paper that she still struggles to understand what was going through her head when she murdered ruth pelke. >> i was 15 years old. i could not tell you what my mindset was at 15 as opposed to what it is at 42. i really cannot. years, for maybe 10, 15 into my sentence, i really did not even understand what happened. honestly. i sat and tried to figure it out. for years i cannot figure it out. >> paula cooper was physically abused as a child. she told the paper she wants to help troubled youth by preventing them from making her mistakes. >> mainly, i want to tell them, you don't want prison but you start off with these little crimes, selling drugs and you don't want to get a job and you want to get a felony on your record and run around and think you are cool and cute. you don't know what prison is. prison strips you of everything. >> bill pelke, your response to the comments paula cooper made and if you could explain how you feel now with her release this week? >> i want to try to help paula cooper in any way i can to help her release be successful. i am very happy she is out of prison. i've been looking forward for the last two years to this time rid i want to try to help her. i never asked her why she committed the crime. i don't think there's a good reason for that. >> bill pelke, it was your father who found the bloody body of your grandmother, ruth pelke. he supported paula cooper's execution and told the post tribune reporter in may 1987 "i believe my son is one of the so- called new breed who doesn't believe people should have to pay their debts." did he ever change his mind, bill? >> to some point he definitely did. also in the same paper, there was a quote from me who said my grandmother died as a martyr for jesus christ. i always said i liked mine better than his. what i have learned about forgiveness of that point, it was really easy for me to understand my father -- to forgive my father for not understanding what i was doing. but he did make a statement he knew she is getting out this year and had no trouble with that. it was tins for several years, but we did have reconciliation before he died in january. >> we're speaking with bill pelke, now and the death penalty advocate. in 1985 his grandmother ruth pelke was murdered by 15-year- old paula cooper. she was convicted and sentenced to death, the youngest person on death row. he was among those who pleaded for her life to be scared. on monday, paula cooper was released. he is gone in the and the city -- but to indiana to see her. also with us is sister helen prejean. >> you are still doing the good work, built. >> hello, sister. >> sister helen, your book, "dead man walking," made famous not only by the work itself but by the found directed by tim starring- robbins, sean penn and susan sarandon read the first copy of this book has a connection to this man we're speaking with today. >> we're at his home in indiana getting ready to march for a week or two weeks and the box arrived from random house but i never laid eyes on the real book. i opened up the box and there is the book. i have never written a book before. remembers it, too, right? >> absolutely. >> de remember that moment? >> absolutely, yes. heras a real thrill to see open at box. >> remember, we put it in the back of the van wherever we went on the road in indiana. we would get the books out and handed them out. the first book tour, really. >> sister helen, can you talk about what impact you think the book has had in the last 20 years and where the discussion has shifted on the death penalty? >> it is really important. i stand behind my published advantage. it is rare to republish and new edition. there is a new generation of readers. i did not know the power of a book when i wrote the book. i'm from the south and we do a lot of talking in storytelling. i did not know a book could have so much power. when you take people on a journey in a book like i did in "dead man," they don't have to debate with anyone in the imagination they're going they're intimately to the perpetrator -- the man who'd killed two teenage kids -- and then on the side of the victim's family and going through their rage, and the throne in the middle of it. that is the way susan likes to talk about the found reid >> tells the story briefly. >> patrick and his brother killed two teenage kids. they had been hanging out near the local law bars lane. local lovers' lane bridge they would take the kids. generally, or off and it led to raping the girl. they claimed to be security officers. one night with the teenage thele, loretta and david, girl was raped and there were found shot in the back of the head near in and sugar cane field. it was unspeakably horrible. patrick and his riptide inside the emotionally after i found out the crime and understand attorney people make because you're so outraged over the death of innocent people. there's a part in all this that says, whoever did this unspeakable act needs to pay with their own life. that is the journey. that is the journey of the book ," and thewalking journey of all of the talks and give around the united states, taking people through the story and helping people navigate those waters inside of outrage on the one hand and on the other, recognizing that people are worth more than one terrible act of their life. >> who is matthew? > that is tim robbins' creation. explained, when you do a film, the of two hours a week and not take two death row inmates stories, so he put all in arts of those involved 1 character. >> let's turn to a clip of the film. hear, matthew finally admits his role in the murder and rape of to the teenagers. the clip begins with sister helen prejean played by susan sarandon, asking if he takes responsibility for his acts. >> do you take responsibility for their deaths? >> yes, ma'am. i never done that before. >> that is a sarraute only god can touch. you do terrible things, terrible things, but you have a deputy now and on content that from me. >> death son of god row prisoner matthew goes on to thank sister helen prejean for her kindness. >> i just hope i that would give those parents some relief. them a wish for peace. myself.er had love figures i would have to die to find love. thank you for letting me. >> a scene from "dead man walking." sister helen prejean how were those visits in prison? of course you have made many of them. in fact, was it all accurate the way susan sarandon is reaching through the bars? >> absolutely. and those moments were incredible for me. to -- iix human beings accompanied six human beings to their death. people have ideas in their mind of prisoners in general, people who go to prison, people on death row that they're monsters. but that incredible human interaction, and they have touched me deeply these human beings, because you experienced their dignity. it led to a direct dialogue with pope john paul where i asked him to please shore of catholic teaching. i said, does the catholic church only protect our staff for the dignity of the innocent? what about the guilty? when i walked in with a man who had shackled hands and feet and is being led to being killed in this room and says, sister, please pray to god. i said, where is the dignity, your holiness, in this debt? we need you to stand strong to help catholics. and through the dialogue and education that has gone on over the years, and in 1996 when the film came out, 78% of americans supported the death penalty and 80% of catholics. statistic inible the 1980's. in 2011, that has dropped to 63% of the american public better for the death penalty and 59% of catholics. dialogue is making a difference, education, said that is why i'm so glad about this book coming out. >> sister helen prejean and bill pelke, we're going to take a break and then come back to this discussion. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. back in a moment. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. our guests are sister helen prejean, one of the world's most well-known anti death penalty activists, a catholic nun. "dead man the book walking: an eyewitness account of the death penalty." it is the 20th anniversary of its release and has just been released a new. it has a new preface by archbishop desmond tutu. pelke, who by bill is with us in chicago studio but was in indiana this week when paula cooper was released. paula cooper murdered his grandmother ruth pelke when paul was 15 years old. she was convicted and sentenced to death and became the youngest person on death row. bill pelke was among those who pleaded for her life to the spirit and is in indiana to meet with paula. >> bill pelke, can use a little bit about how the work of sister helen prejean affected your own work in your own advocacy on the question of the death penalty? >> sure. while paula cooper was on death row, i campaigned heavily, with two italy three times on her behalf. which is taken off death row in 1989, i thought, my mission is accomplished. that was about the time i heard a march 1 to take place in florida and go to atlanta, georgia. the purpose was to it that the spiritual congress --conscious about the death penalty. i thought i ought to be there so it took two weeks vacation, drove to florida from indiana and met sister helen prejean. after 17 days of walking down the highway with this man, you get a reeducation of the death penalty. dedicated my life to the abolishment of the death penalty. bill pelke, now that paula cooper has been released, shall face challenges such as employment. i want ask about the ban the box movement that is seeking to ban employers from asking potential employees to check a box indicating that a criminal past. in this clip from a short film called "be on the box," a formerly incarcerated man explains the difficulties he encountered in the job market because of his criminal history. >> my name is donald and i'm 42. a recently just came back to fewety from doing quite a years in prison. my first three weeks out, i put in seven applications for i have not got one call back from anything. no feedback whatsoever from any applications ipod in. and get up in the morning and have for my destination, which is an appointment class. this is something i've been looking for to be doing. when i say i wanted the whole, to be a whole person. i want to wake up in the morning, know what i got a place in society. that i'm accepted. >> bill pelke, can you talk about that movement, the ban the box movement? >> this is the first time i've heard about it and i can understand why you would be moving in that direction. i know it is going to be difficult for paula cooper to find a job. people find out she spent 28 years in prison, their corn to be hesitant to hire her, especially in the market today. i really don't know about and the box. i think employers probably have a right to know for person has done something violent in their past, but they have paid their price and i don't think they should be able -- >> what do you plan to say to paula cooper when and if you meet her? do you have a plan to meet her? >> i came from spain here to indiana to meet with her on my way back to alaska. i don't know if i will be able to meet with her or not. when she left prison, she went to a safe place. i hope to hear from her in the next four days before i go back to indiana. if i see her, i will give her a hug and welcome her back to society and reassure her i will do anything i can do to help her be successful. >> what are your visits with her light when she was in prison? >> i tried to visit with her for eight years. the state of indiana department of corrections would not allow us to visit as a result of the film narrated by susan sarandon where they went in and asked the warden while i could not visit with her, the warden act shocked and said the next, apply the visit i could. hadhanksgiving in 1994 we our first visit. one of the statements paula cooper made is, i want to look him in the eye and know he has forgiven me. i gave her a hug, step back and told her i loved her and had forgiven her. we have talked about things that uncommon. i never spoke about the crime. to run you have talked i the telephone? >> no, but we did exchange letters about every 10 days. an e-mail, there is system and we do correspond to the system once a week. >> helen prejean, as you listen to this story and you do your own escorting of people on death row, or what do call it when you are with people on death row? >> spiritual accompaniment. >> talk about the murder victims' families. we're hearing bill, the grandson of ruth pelke, but with "dead man walking," for example, do you feel you made any mistakes at that time? >> absolutely. i had never been engaged in public debate. i had never been engaged with people in prison. i meet a man on death row who has done an unspeakable crime, but i knew about his dignity. i did not know what to do the victim's family. i thought, they're going to keep me because i'm a spiritual advisor to the one who kill their children. i avoided them because i thought, i will bring them more pain. afraid it was sick, don't you understand, he deserves to die for killing our child? i could not picture myself. it was the worst mistake of my life hands down. what i did meet them, it was the most polarizing situation in imagines. -- it was the most polarizing situation you can imagine. you sign a book when you go in for clemency board hearing. are you for life or death, literally. it is a close as you get to being in a roman amphitheater. you put your thumb up or thumbs down for a person to live or die. everybody in the room except me and the lawyer and one psychiatrist there was there to see patrick die. the victim's family was caught in the current because they're told, this is the way you want to on your dead child read this is the way you get justice. it is a very societal thing and victims' families were caught in an. i met them outside the building while the pardon board was voting. the girl's parents were furious at me. i deserved their anger, but i was unprepared for the father. he is the hero of "dead man walking." .e had lost david, his only son he said, sister helen, all of this time you have been visiting with those two brothers and you never once came to see us. you cannot believe the pressure on us to be for the death penalty, and i did not know what to say. i said, i'm so sorry. he said my wife and i go to different mass on sunday to see if we could hear some preacher talk about the message of jesus because i know jesus calls us to forgive. he said,, pray with me. the in our shoes. it was his gracious invitation that led me over to the victim's side. his story, just like bill pelke's story of this -- all of these human beings had tremendous debt to them, whether they follow institutionalized religious the them or not. lloyd said, i was listening to people around me and said they are right, i wish i could be there to pull the switch. binney said, i did not like what was happening to me. -- ben he said, i did not like what was happening to me. all of this hatred and bitterness coming in to me. finally i said, no. he put his hand like this. no, they killed our boy, but i'm not one to let them kill me and i'm going down the path of forgiveness that jesus taught us to do. he was the first victim's family i met. now i have spent hundreds and hundreds of people over these years, victims' families. he was the first one to teach me that what forgivenesses is not first and foremost what you do for the one who is hurt you to lift the burden, it is a way of saving your own life. it is aware preserving wholeness as we can see in bill pelke. thinksaid, people forgiveness is weak like your condoning what they did. forgive.you to not it was killing me. he said, because you i am is to be a person who loves people and helps people. so it was a way of preserving his life. it gave man inside. when jesus said, love your enemies, it does not mean condone what they do. it has gone to be a cliche that people say, forgive and forget. but it is not letting me love and integrity of our lives be damaged. >> sister helen prejean bill pelke, thank you for being with us for it bill pelke, we will follow up on whether or not you meet with bill -- all cooper. helen prejean, we will depart to of this interview and post it on democracynow.org. thank you both for being with us. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. 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