After Donald Trump was elected in 2016 Liz Lenz went through 2 break ups her marriage ended the fact that she voted for Hillary Clinton and her husband supported trying to not help the already broken Union and she walked away from the conservative white Christian evangelical faith she had embraced her whole life a mother of 2 and lifelong resident of the Midwest set out to discover the changing forces of faith and tradition in God's country and from this exploration came her memoir God land a story of faith loss and renewal in middle America tells 51 percent solicit of hell that it was the collapse of the church she founded that sparked her quest I had a church and it fell apart completely and it fell apart that in 2050 right Iowa was gearing up for the 23 competing caucus so late summer early fall and as my porch fell apart I felt that the profound sense of loss and while that was happening I was reading new jury after news story of other 9 or across the Midwest also closing up and this is happening in the political cycle and I thought there was something out there and I wanted to figure it out I wanted to understand what was happening in America so I began to journey around talked a lot of people and it turned into a magazine article what. The book did anything end up surprising you oh yeah I got a day or. So I started researching the book and early twenty's I think team I saw a contract for the book in September 20. 9th number 26 and so the book as a concept was already there it already existed before the election happened and then. When I had seen the contract 1st and then when I signed it America has elected Donald Trump as president which did surprise me I don't live in the liberal bubble I knew it could happen but it still surprised me and then seeing the effects of that on my most personal relationships and all of that started to unfold and then wind then break and shatter whatever metaphor you want to use for 2017 as I wrote this book so yeah it was really surprising to come to grips with the idea that these conversations are not just political that they in fact who we are and how we live these are you know just so just their radical idea about people believing in Faith in America not going to church that deeply and profoundly impacts the way that we function as humans so American like Donald Trump I got a divorce and now there's a book that kind of tries to understand it all in your book you write that you spent a lifetime trying to make your outspoken feminist and progressive voice fit into a world that seemingly doesn't want it what was the largest hurdle or issue in having this voice fit into the Christian evangelical faith. Well centers and her kids conservative are not always say that they're for everybody but the reality is that's not true there for you if you will bend yourself will break yourself one of the biggest challenges for me for fitting in and was just being allowed to speak up so many even Djoko churches don't allow women to the elders be deacons they don't allow them to speak as pastors or teachers and that you know that role is a very tricky one to navigate and something I say in the book repeat. Sadly is that centers of faith are one of the last places in America that are allowed to discriminate based on gender and sexual orientation and they do and that is a huge huge struggle for equality not just a quality of representation but a voice and understanding of what it means to be a person of faith and America do you think this is based on theology or do you do you think this is a formed way of thinking you know of course if you ask a pastor from one of these churches he's going to say it's the ology But you know we have a long traditions of radical feminist theology that would absolutely disagree we have the ology being done by women of color who are doing women this theology all who would say this is absolutely just a way to prop up the patriarchal institution which is what I tend to believe especially as somebody who was a raised in the faith and has seen the theology from the inside out it's definitely more about propping up our sense of who should be in power and who should not be I'm tower and it's also twisted up that this idea of nationalism and American is rather than it is about faith itself it's so disappointing I think that I know so many people who don't want to call themselves conservatives anymore because they're like well if I say that by means I support you know like racism on the border or taking away a woman's right to choose and you know it's like I don't think those things but I just think these other things and so it seems like maybe one other shift is do what should the 2020 Democratic nominees understand about the Midwest there is a narrative out an America I just saw a story on in the Atlantic the other day too that faith is dying that is true in a way that you. Faith centers are closing up but stupid still very much a part of the American narrative and it needs to be spoken to I don't think the 2020 Democratic nominees if you just sit around and wait for people to ask questions they need to weave in their ideas of morality they need to weave in their ideas their spirituality into everything that they say and do people the judge is great at doing this and it's resonating you hear people talking about it they notice I've heard it was that weren't do this a little bit but I would I would really love the 2020 Democratic nominees not to just have these amazing plans for fixing America and they do but to also have a plan for speaking to the heart of Americans the majority of Americans still believe in God and it's still important to who they are and how they understand the world who are you supporting among the Democratic candidates and does it differ from who has the best chance of winning against any Republican nominee at this point. I think that at this point with impeachment and everything we have a long road to go and living in Iowa having all the candidates come through constantly I have a little motto is why pick and be wrong now when you can take him be wrong later. So I haven't quite landed on the candidate for me but I do think that we have an amazing deal of candidates out there all of whom would do an amazing job of fixing what's broken in America and I honestly think that we you know nobody about Donald Trump was going to be elected so our notions of who can women who can when I think we need to just throw it out and go for the person who gets us the most excited but as for who that is for me I'm. Still biding my time and that wasn't some sort of Ton I want to write a poem about the advice. Putting candidates aside how do you think that everyday Americans can reach across this political divide I don't know if I necessarily believe in reaching across the political divide I think the divide is a lot more complicated and when we have discussions about reaching across the aisle and all those kinds of things usually they're predicated on some people giving up a lot of stuff and other people not giving up anything at all so rather I wish we would have a better conversation a conversation that's not about reaching across and fixing but and understanding what's fundamentally broken because I don't think that we currently understand what's fundamentally broken in America we're not listening we're not understanding I think that needs to start and also I think before anything can be fixed we need to completely reassess power because as anybody who pays attention to the news cycle power is fundamentally broken from the top down it's broken and our centers of faith it's broken in the White House and I think any idea of you know let's just hold hands and fix America does is really elementary and doesn't get to get to that deep rooted sense of loss and struggle and America you know I would go to these churches lots of these beautiful little churches and sit there and worship with you know aging congregations aging white congregations and they would sit there and say why does nobody come to here why does nobody come to our church and that when I would go sit with younger people people who are queer people of color and they would say we're not allowed in those places so I think there was one. Really great example I went to the mystic soul conference which took place in Chicago and it was a completely radical redesign the way of understanding faith and it was specifically designed for queer people and people of color and so even from the way the chairs were set up to the way that prayer was done to the way that thinking and movement was a part of worship was completely radical and to go from that to a church in Sydney Iowa that has maybe 20 members and maybe 5 show up on a Sunday just really I think underscored the difference of conversations that we're having and who were listening to and who are not listening to you know every time there's a story about they you know we tend to focus on the white male even Jellicoe ministers but there are these powerful movements of queer people and people of color who are not being allowed into the conversation and I think it could well look radically different than if we started focusing on what's happening on the margins rather than the broken centers of power so each geographical location across the United States has its own quirks and stereotypes and you are a progressive thinker from the Midwest Why stay in the Midwest what what is it about the Midwest that makes you call it home I think one of the most beautiful things about the Midwest is it tends to be a place we project on you know we projected this like dying household where there are no jobs everyone wears a bag of hat or you know it's like rule bucolic place where it's wonderful to raise a family here and all of those things are true and none of them are true and I. I think what I love about living here and how we complex and complicated it is and how much it deals with the problem that all Americans are facing in a way that's like building concentrated and yet it's still very beautiful and yet we still try really hard and one of the stories in my book that I talked about is I'm very much not a trump supporter during a very hard time when I was trying to write this book and moving you know a neighbor of mine who very much is a trump Porter you know we know this about each other not a secret and he came over and bought me a brand new chair and get me out all the time in a way that was really a meeting for all and so I hope that that is the America that would be. The men who are great don't count it that was was Lines her new book is God land a story of faith loss and renewal in middle America she was speaking with 51 percent Elizabeth Hell there's been another move toward gender equality in New York where mothers who breastfeed may postpone jury duty Governor Andrew Cuomo recently signed legislation that provides an exemption for breastfeeding women jury duty may be postponed up to 2 years to postpone jury duty the applicant must submit a note from a physician with her postponement Doppler cation to verify she is breastfeeding the service must not have been already postponed or excused the provision took effect immediately. There's strength training yoga meditation and more it's a nonprofit wellness studio that helps people in recovery from addiction reporter Camille a crush on me brings us the story of a gym that is changing lives and fall most Massachusetts where one woman found her kind of strength. My half a dozen people are standing on yoga mats in a dimly lit studio they're all holding neon green drumsticks they bang them together. It's called pound at the front is a 1000000 times. You get out a lot of whatever's inside of you about it it's still the highlight of my week I would say for sure and he has on funky white blue and grey marbled yoga pants he teaches pound strong it's a sober gym so all the members and most of the instructors are in some form of addiction recovery reverberating the sticks against each other until ground literally shakes up energy in our chest and heart to release trauma she discovers pound last November and just started teaching this past January but even from her 1st class she needed we knew she had to go back as a woman I've never been encouraged to get any sort of aggression now or just be loud and wild and free you know where cover is really important to me but a lot of it super mentally and emotionally intense and it almost like reminded me of like the playful Hafiz side that I still have in me which I feel like I lost. Amelia as about a year into her recovery she told me she never thought she would be in a healthy enough place to be an instructor but this class changed all of that she has a bright smile and last her own jokes but there was a time in her life with things were just dark for a long time I was what you call it a functioning alcoholic she managed to maintain. Her job in rare disease research and practice yoga when she could but there were days she'd wake up after a night drinking with bruises she didn't remember getting sometimes filled with dread and regret that she'd hurt people she cared about I don't even think there was a good or. Not one. Yeah definitely not it was. An alien told me that recounting that time in her life is like an out of body experience hovering overhead looking down at who she used to be towards the end I don't want to drink anymore it's like I had to so I didn't get sick or seek year I . Can go on what drinking did was just make everything go away but everything including happiness whole drive and almost every day that this happened even at the end I would wake up saying I never want to drink again and then have a few hours the thoughts will go through I have to there's no choice I was a prisoner to alcohol and that was awful being in that place just wasn't her so she got some help but after 6 months in recovery she relapsed and millions said she felt so criticized in her early recovery the stigma behind addiction made it really hard for her to ask for help she was so depressed she could barely sleep my mental health just fell out of whack I just felt out of whack you know recovery just takes time in general Amelia spent time slowly rebuilding herself she moved into a sober home and form relationships with the women there and they brought her to well strong after a few weeks she took her 1st pound class and a burst of energy followed her back home when I walked in the door it was like a lady that. We just came back from Scotland we were like reenacting without drumsticks of course movements and ever on the look on their faces was a little bizarre but I did we didn't even care the sober home she was living in had specific hours for phone use and she completely gave up her phone time once a week because it was the same time as pound class its own super corny a bit like the physical release and empowerment of Pound was like I'm back I love trying new things you know I lose myself in addiction completely and it's like oh my god right here's a really really has slowly worked her way from the back of the room to the front legs. Caught the eye of the instructor and she offered him a full scholarship to take the pound teacher training him something she never expected but it brought back that hope and that Dr that she lost connection. Not that small a connection and you know of connection and food no I mean. It's the obvious that is other human beings you know I am grateful that I am her career it's a beautiful thing I get to learn a way to live that other people respect you. And sound like Massachusetts any more. It seems especially these days we battle over labels wanting to get rid of them but our labeling goes beyond us and to the birds. This is bird now. When birds get together we humans have a knack for assigning them some clever and unusual names most of us know the common ones a covey of quail parliament of Owls a gaggle of geese. But what about a group of penguins Well it depends on land they're called a waddle are sometimes a hurdle but on the water there are a raft of Cambridge. Here's another charm of hummingbirds take an. Iridescent plumage catches the sun it's like a flying darting from flower to flower now you're not likely to see hummingbirds in groups in the wild but the whole picture is charming indeed. A convocation of the Eagles exposed that sound stately to you. What about a conspiracy of ravens are they truly conspiring about something or do we just perceive them as untrustworthy. Maybe the way we label Bird says more about us than it does about them. For bird note I marry me can. Support for bird note comes from American Bird Conservancy and bringing back the birds a photo book by own Deutsch on the importance of protecting birds capes available at Amazon dot com. Composer in residence it's not a common job but that was the title cache Mana who are held for a year in the central Minnesota town of Wal-Mart the goal was to help the town's increasingly diverse community get to know each other by writing songs together Emily bright reports in Willmar Minnesota and Emily bright. On a Saturday in September 28th singer songwriter Cassia Mana who showed up with her guitar at a playground hoping to write a song the song would be about Wilmer Minnesota's flagship fully accessible playground but just what that song would sounds like depended on who showed up playing since. Every child or it was the 1st venture in cache monist year as composer in residence and will want to see. Does the nation playground we want to do not to be open and accessible to people that were never written songs before we wanted it to be a. Learning about songwriting and the joy of songwriting. Or had hosted other resident sees through the American composers forum before but this one was different Paul Ulysse however said was the community liaison for the project we didn't want to be. On that and he came in touch required we wanted it to be about the process of making me think and it being something that a community Wilner has sizable Latino and East African populations drawn in part by work at the nearby Jenny o. Turkey processing plant $26.00 native languages are spoken in Willmar public schools music they figured. Could be a language everyone shared enter Cassim Ana born in Nigeria and based in the Twin Cities she wears her long braids dyed purple at the ends she has the confidence and the creativity it takes to turn a room full of strangers and just songwriting collaborators like one day at the Wilmer public library there were a lot of young kids that day it was just hard getting them to come over and so big up I need a shout out to baby shark. So I believe baby shark of my foad And before you knew it we had like all the give and we talked about the song for my baby shark serves baby shark but then we also ended up writing a song about. Someone's dog called Sunshine The point was the process this was more about a partnership and forming relationships and being vulnerable with one another and writing songs about our stories the songwriting sessions had a range of ages and locations from coffee shops to classrooms Keshi mana recalls one session with a 5th grade class coming off several snow days she expected stir crazy kids but to her surprise they zeroed right in on their chosen topic have hope Keshi mana helped them brainstorm lyrics and something like Never give up we think about like how things might be hard and we think about how you know we never know what's going to happen but we have to keep go in and somebody is like yeah and it's like a roller coaster of emotion and I'm like yes we're going to use that kid but it was a joke right. And I can be like a road goes. Be exposed. You my need a hero to hold you. But even that the worst had hold. Never give up. Never give up even when things. Turn. This whole process you know. I mean because we have to know pun intended both. So much can be accomplished in so much. Such a simple straightforward way it's a you know you bet all the kids from my class went and told their friends we were both. You know really interesting how people would sometimes say oh I can't write. And then they'd write for the garron and you'd be like wow that was really how well hundreds of people participated over the course of the year Paula Ulysse However since says the project was a success but big takeaway that I am taking from this that people really want to reach out really why they you know like you would be another finding the fact that you and they can continue the final project is a community song book called in common and it's available online for free many of the $23.00 songs have been translated into Spanish and Somali catchy Manas year as composer in residence has come to an end now she says the people of Wilmer who helped create the songs are invited to continue making them their own. Ai. And stepping back to. Groom the food. That's our show for this week thanks to Tina Rannoch for production assistance our executive producer is Dr Alan Sharp Talk our theme music is glow in the dark by Kevin Bartlett This show is a national production of Northeast Public Radio If you'd like to hear this show again sign up for a podcast or visit the 51 percent archives on our website at w.a.m. C die. This week's show is number 1582. Thanks. Welcome to counter spin your weekly look behind the headlines I'm Janine Jackson this week on counter spin the Washington Post doesn't want you to be confused so they headlined their editorial Bolivia is in danger of slipping into anarchy it's a fault. Us media you understand are deeply invested in the well being of Bolivia's people who are in an uproar after a coup ousting morale ace over charges of irregularities in the recent election that appear to have no evidential grounding and u.s. Media's view to require any back in 2006 us media work. That policies like nationalizing the country's gas industry were popular but not the answer to Bolivia's problems their preferred answer judging by today's coverage is celebrating the extralegal pushout of the country's 1st indigenous president and welcoming the self declared leadership of a legislator who has tweeted that she dreams of a Bolivia free of satanic indigenous rights Well that's the topsy turvy world of u.s. Media's concerned foreign policy which is why we'll look for a different view from Alex main director of international policy at the Center for Economic and Policy Research That's coming up but 1st a quick look back at recent press. On Nov 11th media consumers were greeted with stories like veterans served to protect our country. Here's where they can get served with deals and freebies today on c.n.n. And Newsweek counseled readers that unlike on Memorial Day when it may be more appropriate to tell veterans to have a meaningful day on Veterans Day it's entirely acceptable to tell a veteran thank you for your service and be sure and spell Veterans Day without an apostrophe it was a missed opportunity to put it mildly for those who recalled the roots of the holiday in 1918 the armistice agreement that ended World War one was signed as David Swanson board member of Veterans for Peace noted this time last year the Armistice Day resolution Congress passed in 1926 called for exercises designed to perpetuate peace through goodwill and mutual understanding later Congress added that November 11th was to be a day dedicated to the cause of world peace and was only after Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Korea and the Cold War and the placing of us bases all over the planet that Armistice Day was renamed Veterans Day in 1954 and groups like Veterans for Peace and some places forbid to March in Veterans Day parades have been trying to reclaim it ever since those looking for the holidays deeper and deeply relevant meanings might have thought they'd found them in the New York Times story how did Armistice Day become Veterans Day in the United States but that explainer offered a sentence about how Alvin king of import Kansas proposed changing the name quote to recognize veterans from all wars and conflicts close quote thus blurring the transition from a celebration of peace to one of veterans as simple expansion a new study out of the University of Alabama suggests media's images of. Veterans are a bit fuzzy the school's veterans and Media Lab found that the photographs newspapers used to represent vets year round for one thing feature 14 percent female veterans when women are just 8 percent of living vets nationwide but also 20 percent of news photos focused on World War 2 veterans though most living male vets served in Vietnam and for women it's since September 11th 2001 lead author Stephen Parrott said quote When I asked my 20 year old students what they picture when they picture who a veteran is it's a World War 2 veteran and I'm asking why does that happen when World War 2 veterans are a minority Why don't they think about a 28 year old who's probably in their own classroom close quote a more accurate less sepia tone division of who veterans are and what their lives are like might make it harder for media to dodge what Swanson and others say they hear from the veterans they listen to that the only real way to honor veterans is to create fewer of them they're listening to counter spin brought to you each week by the media watch group fair. When a president announces his involuntary resignation after weeks of law enforcement mutiny backed by armed forces and the public urging of military commanders the way to convey that is not to say that the president steps down left office or had in abrupt departure yet that is what elite u.s. Media are telling the public about events in Bolivia where. The country's 1st indigenous president was forced out of office after weeks of protests around supposedly regularities in the most recent election. The magazine Foreign Policy stated it's not a coup in any sense of the word and Bolivia and Latin America have experience with actual coups although not enough apparently just last year foreign policy ran a piece headlined its time for a coup in Venezuela. After morale a son the vice president other officials citing threats to their families stepped down in succession and now as we record on November 14th a 2nd vice president of the Senate Janine on yes has declared herself president with a bible no less and the State Department says they're looking forward to working with her events and Bolivia are in flux here to ground us a little is Alex main director of international policy at the Center for Economic and Policy Research He joins us by phone from Washington d.c. Welcome back to counter spin Alex Maine resident It's good to be back well definitions do matter but setting that aside for the moment what comes through clearly in u.s. Media coverage is the idea that a film was so unpopular after 14 years in office so deeply on liked that he had to jigger the constitution to try and stay in office I wanted to ask you 1st just to talk a little bit about his tenure to date and actual public opinion in Bolivia Well sure I mean I think the poll become true gave a pretty good idea of its popularity and in fact what's interesting in terms of the media coverage that you saw a real shift where some of the Mitchell coverage you can look at the Washington Post for instance just before the elections took place you know were pretty much about saying this is a done deal that our most likely. Going to win these elections quite possibly in the 1st round of the elections that took place on October 20th and of course there's a good explanation for that the economy of Bolivia is doing really well particularly compared to other economies of Latin America and have a morality his policies over the 13 years that he's been president have been very successful in reducing poverty and reducing inequality in improving infrastructure throughout the country now of course there is a strong opposition but that opposition in the last few elections has failed to overturn him get him out of the presidency or really manage to have a significant opposition even within the Congress of the country so you know the polls that came out gave us a good sense of where of a morality stand in terms of public opinion but then the media narrative shifted quite dramatically in the following days. Well yeah I mean and now the line as strange as it is seems to be that well it wasn't a coup but even if it was that's Ok because there were serious irregularities in the election as if that would somehow justify a coup but I wonder if you can talk us through what people are reading were the groundings for this widespread protests and for the military intervention which is that somehow morale ace or his people fiddled with this most recent election what can you tell us including from see 1st work we should know about that well I think what you need to know is that there are 2 groups that didn't do their job around it in terms of really informing public opinion the 1st group was the Organization of American States that was down in Bolivia observing the flexion. That produced the communique the day after the election in which they said that there had been a draft pick change in the trend in the electronic book out The quick count that was taking place and it was unexplainable that there had been such a drastic shift in the trend this particular statement was very easy to be bunk you didn't really need a frank tank like ours to do that I think anyone who really looked at the election results carefully could do it you could see that there wasn't a drastic shift in the result and also the shift that you saw towards the end of the election which the u.s. Is referring to when there was a progressive shift in favor of the morality that widened his margin here originally had I think it 83 percent of the quick vote count about 7 points ahead of the closest competitor Carlos Mesa and gradually with the remaining votes that came in the margin increased to over 10 points which was what was needed for ever to win. The 1st round and that was entirely explainable in fact it's what we saw in previous elections by the fact that pure geography the areas of the country that reported the results last were the areas of the country that happen to be poorer more remote and much much more favorable traditionally to have a morality quite normal that the margin shifted in his favor so this was a really misleading statement that had absolutely no basis that came from the lawyer and then that had a huge influence on the 2nd group that I would say misled public opinion and that's of course the media the mainstream media that took these statements from their way at face value and ran with them didn't even try to form any kind of assessment of their own as to the value of these statements and did 2 things one gave the statements complete credit we and other folks independent statisticians were pointing out that these statements made no sense they didn't take that into consideration at all the OAS is the voice of authority and they left it at that secondly the media decided that the references to what was the electronic vote count quick vote count which was not the official vote count of the election was the same thing as the official vote count so there was this sort of confusion I think some of the media was genuinely confused they focused on the fact that there had been an interruption in the reporting of the quick vote count which by the way was something that had been anticipated to begin with they pointed to that and said Ok well then that means that the integrity of the vote count is in question when of course the official vote count that had been occurring in that much more lengthy and meticulous count and took place over 4 days was never interrupted and there was never anything from the Organization of American States or anybody else. That suggested that there was really a problem with that vote count process so again the Organization of American States and much of the major media. Misled public opinion as to what was happening with these elections and created this belief that there had been severe irregularities in the vote count and that gradually in terms of the media coverage became something portrayed trod and stolen election even though there's no evidence pointing to that at all well but if you tell people who are unhappy with an election outcome well that was due to fraud you're bound to get a response particularly if you are you know a powerful entity like the United States like the las saying yeah you know you shouldn't accept that result so now we get protests in Bolivia and how would you. Describe those initial protests and kind of take us through the timeline in between the start of those protests and Murali says quote unquote resignation what happened with these protests is that they were by and large an urban areas they were largely middle class protests they definitely grew after October 21st and I would say after the misleading statement from the Organization of American States came out this legitimize this course from the opposition which was that these elections were fraudulent and that really galvanized the protest movement and you know it turned violent some of that violence was oriented towards the voting centers and the voting authority and there were voting Fenner's that ended up damaged ransack body material including ballots were destroyed which of course made it more difficult to audit the election but afterwards and there were. Also violence directed at supporters and leaders of the movement to socialism or Maf ever morality has political party and towards Indigenous people large So there was also a sort of a racial or racist element to these protests they grew more and more out of hand and then you had police mutinies that were staged I would say Thursday Friday Saturday of last week in which the police forces and some of the biggest cities in Bolivia including Cochabamba. The Clare themselves the mutiny and refused to intervene against any of the violent protests that were taking place course this opened the door to more chaos and then what really sealed the deal was the fact that the military then came out the high command of the military said that they would not intervene against the police so at that point you had a complete breakdown I would say in law enforcement in the country and particularly in terms of dealing with the more violent elements of these protests and finally you had the high command of the military that called on a morality to resign of course that's when we really could see that a coup was taking place and shortly afterwards Alice and the vice president of the country. Announced that they were resigning in their announcement they also made very clear the crew was occurring afterwards they went into hiding and the next day they managed to get on a plane with some difficulty but managed to get on a plane to Mexico where they were offered asylum and where they are now located whereas some of the other leadership from the mass party was holed up in the Mexican Embassy and also offered asylum so very much a military coup reminisce. In some ways of the crew in Honduras in June of 2009 military coup where the president was taken out of the country the democratically elected president Manuel Zelaya and similar to back then even though everyone I think at this point it's clear that there was a coup in Honduras in June of 2009 back then you also had this sort of debate in the media as to whether or not it was a coup and I think in part it had to do with the ambivalent position of at that time the Obama administration and now we're saying of course from the trumpet ministration position that's not even ambivalent that fully supportive of the crew that's occurred of course they're not calling it a coup and I think you know that sort of sets the frame for a lot of the media coverage which is also failing to call it a coup and in some cases such as The New York Times in an editorial that was published just 3 days ago celebrating what has happened in Bolivia as a step forward for democracy I wanted to ask you about the u.s. Role how would the United States feel about an economically successful Latin American country run by an Indigenous man in a party called the movement toward socialism Oh. You know what has been the u.s. Role with regard to the Murali said ministration and then with regard to this the relations between the 2 countries between the 2 governments I should say have been very bad for quite a long time and bit stemmed from the us through its diplomats and particularly through its embassador that was in Bolivia at the time in 2008 supporting violent protests again this took place in August September of 2008 when you had the ambassador who met with some of the hardline protest leaders that were . But encouraging protests that were also very racist and going after indigenous peoples and mass leaders and so on this led to a break in diplomatic relations the us Ambassador was kicked out of Bolivia and of course the u.s. Reciprocated they haven't had an ambassador level relations since then and of course in terms of its own domestic and foreign policies Bolivia is really gone in a different direction from that that the u.s. Government has one of the c. And they did away with u.s. Assistance to not be relying on that USA id ended up leaving the country at the request of the ever more Alice government and then of course. Was close to Chavez of Venezuela and other left wing leaders in the region and so I think whether under the George w. Bush administration or the Obama administration the u.s. Government really saw the Bolivian government of a morale if as an adversary in the region and to undermine ever morale is probably not as actively as the government of Venezuela but still I think fairly actively certainly and multilateral settings but what happened with these last elections is that you've had the Organization of American States that they're observing they've observed elections in Bolivia before there were no real issues but I think there was a sense of an opportunity now with these elections and the fact that there was some controversy around the elections due to the fact that morale if was standing for another term and the constitution allowed him to terms he was standing for a 3rd term under this Constitution course that had been authorized that it was legal because a court decision but ultimately you had a sector of the population that was riled up about that and that was part of what was behind the protest movement so you already had a context of some social tension that was there that the you. Took advantage of they did that in large part through the Organization of American States New Start great deal of cord nation between the Organization of American States or total mission statement from the statements of the secretary general of the Organization of American States Lisa La grow and the statement positions coming from the State Department and the White House throughout this whole episode which shifted from there needs to be a runoff election to there needs to be completely new election to supporting the forced resignation under military pressure of them or our to supporting a coup so you had both the us an organization of American States that were very much in line and of course the us has an enormous influence within the organization of American States and provides something like 60 per cent of its funding not to mention the Organization of American States is located in the middle of Washington d.c. Just next to the Us State Department well and that brings us up to now where we have many indigenous protest protests by indigenous people against the coup in Bolivia and also as you noted attacks on mosques representatives and serious unrest and we have also Janine on yes who was a lower level official and now saying I'm the president now and the Associated Press has a headline saying Bolivia's declared interim president faces challenges not noting that declared by herself you know and we're hearing from the State Department which just got through supporting the coup has a statement at least from one official saying We look forward to working with Janine on Yes Is that legal now we have someone stepping forward it sounds a lot like Venezuela someone saying oh you know what call me president now no it's absolutely not legal you could consider that as sort of the 2nd part of the crew the 1st part being for. Resignation under military pressure of the president and vice president and also other officials that were in the constitutional succession to be president they were all under threat they were being threatened personally or their families were being threatened and then they either left the country or went into hiding but at any rate that was a military coup right there and then when you had Janine and yes stepped up in the Senate and declared herself president that was also a coup you had of course in the constitutional line of succession the president of the Senate that would have eventually become president however she Jennie 9 years was not the president the Senate she belonged to the minority opposition party in the Senate and she took advantage of the fact that the legislators both houses but including the Senate were not there were in hiding weren't able to assist in the discussion so there was no quorum so she spoke before a plenary that wasn't a quorum that was there it was not legal you didn't have enough members of the Senate that were present and declared herself president of the Senate before then saying Ok if I'm president of the Senate then that makes me president of the country and you know I think what. Really made it clear what this was all about was when you had the military high command one of the officers in the military high command who was the one who put the presidential sash around the body of Jenny not yet in place of course of the outgoing president those are the sorts of things that the media has not described what happened the very unconstitutional nature of this presidential succession and most of the articles that we're seeing now coming from most of the media are just describing a journey and I know the interim president period I'm not even mentioning the fact that you know there might be some debate as to her legitimacy is an interim president even when u.s. Media talk about what's going on the words they used you know to emphatically say for example foreign policy which said this isn't a coup by any understanding of it there subhead on their article that called for a coup in Venezuela said only nationalists in the military can restore a legitimate constitutional democracy and that's them talking about Venezuela but it's an indication that words don't mean what you might think they mean you know when your mind reading u.s. Media is foreign policy coverage you know it's just it's kind of a topsy turvy world in the u.s. Media when we're trying to understand what's going on in Latin America certainly Yeah that's right and again very reminiscent of Honduras in 2009 at that time you had a lot of the media commentators that were pointing out that Manuel de la had been trying to change the constitution supposedly because he wanted to stay president indefinitely and so on and so then saying well then it wasn't really a coup and you're saying something similar now because of this debate over of a morality reelection which again was legal which was approved by the court but they're using that debate to say well you know it wasn't even really legitimate for him to be. Running in these elections Leaving aside the fact that he was most certainly still the president of the country until January 20 or till the end of his term and that you've been forcibly removed from office and I think we're going to have a similar situation where today no one really questions the fact that there was a coup in Honduras I think weeks months maybe years from now it will be clear to everyone that there was a coup in Bolivia but by then it will be too late public opinion will have only been awoken long after the coup has occurred and people will not be mobilizing I think if they should put pressure on the u.s. Government the u.s. Congress and so on to do the right thing and to denounce and work to undo the crew that just occurred in Bolivia and we've been speaking with Alex main He's the director of international policy at the Center for Economic and Policy Research their work on the Livia and on other issues is online at Seaport dot net Alex Maine thank you so much for joining us this week on counterspell Thank you Jeanette. And that's it for counter spin for this week counterspell is produced by fair the national media watch group based in New York the show's engineer by Alex noise I'm Jane Jackson thanks for listening to counter spam. You are to decay z. Y. X. By low 90.7 f.m. K.z. Wising Willetts and Ukiah 91.5 f.m. And Fort Bragg at 88 point one of them. Were Mendocino County Public Broadcasting for member supported community radio and. We also stream on the World Wide Web at k.z. Why Next up Archie. Thank you since the chairman has gaveled out all of my colleagues and it's sad that I am going to. Many of the Chairman Thomas Lubanga September this is the last.