You know one that his military offensive into Syria must be stopped N.P.R.'s Rob Schmitz reporting several top trump of ministration officials are facing deadlines this week to hand over documents related to President Trump's dealings with Ukraine N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnson reports the subpoenas come as Congress continues its impeachment inquiry the chairman of 3 House committees have given President Trump personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and the acting director of the Office of Management and Budget vote until today to turn over the requested information House Democrats have also subpoenaed energy secretary Rick Perry and acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney for documents they have until Friday to comply while makers are investigating whether Trump abused his office for his own political gain specifically whether he used military aid as leverage to pressure Ukraine to gather dirt on democratic political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter who served on the board of the Ukrainian energy company Windsor Johnston n.p.r. News Washington Democratic presidential hopefuls return to the stage for another debate in which the candidates trailing far behind the front runners are looking for their breakout moment while the contenders are expected to lay into former Vice President Joe Biden over the ethics of his family doing business with the crane N.P.R.'s Mara Liasson reports are also expected to home in on another rival gaining momentum in that Senator Elizabeth Warren I think what it means is that she's going to get some scrutiny which she hasn't had to face so far you've seen Pete boot a judge starting to poke at her health care position and I think with the backdrop of what's happening in Syria you're going to hear maybe some candidates go after her on foreign policy N.P.R.'s Mara Liasson the debate will air on many n.p.r. Stations this is n.p.r. . Desperate Housewives star Felicity Huffman is home for the next 2 weeks will be federal lockup in California today she began her sentence for her role in a college admission scheme in which a number of wealthy parents paid off testing officials and coaches to guarantee their kids got into some of the nation's most prestigious universities thereby taking spots that could have gone to less privileged applicants who did the work to get into a good college and additional 19 parents are fighting the charges. A murdered hip hop legend a pioneering Glenn band and an eighty's arena rocker are among 16 performers hoping to enter the rock n Roll Hall of Fame David c. Barnette of member station of u.c. P n ideas stream has more on the 2020 Rock Hall nominees notorious b.i.g. Was murdered in 1907 a case that remains unsolved then now he's made the right calls Ballard in his 1st year of eligibility. For. Black. 9 artists are making their ballot debuts including Soundgarden and t. Rex. Other birds timers include Motorhead and Whitney Houston she chuckled Khan and Pat Benatar are the only women on this year's down hill. Now a voting committee will trim the roster to about a half dozen Hall of Fame inductees who will be announced in January for n.p.r. News I'm David c. Barnett in Cleveland all major market indices are up more than one percent this is n.p.r. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include Subaru featuring the 3 euro ascent with seating for up to 8 and a choice of 2nd row captains chairs love it's what makes Subaru Subaru learn more at Subaru dot com. Next time. Rachel Maddow the m s n b c host will talk to Dan Pfeiffer about the oil and gas industries impact on democracy worldwide Russia's interference between 16 presidential election. Donald Trump and more that's next time on City Arts on this public radio station. Evening at 7 here. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross My guest is journalist Ronan Farrow his new book started making headlines days ago even though it was just published today Farrow one of Pulitzer Prize for his reporting in The New Yorker on Harvey Weinstein's alleged sexual harassment and assault of women Farrow had started investigating Weinstein when Farrow was a reporter at n.b.c. News but he says network executives blocked the story from ever being broadcast and let Farrow go Farrah's new book investigates why he says That story also involves Weinstein the National Enquirer and its parent company. And n.b.c. Is attempt to keep secret the allegations of sexual misconduct against Matt Lauer Farrah spoke with a woman who says she was raped by Lauer Farrow also reports on the private investigation company that Weinstein hired to spy on and stop reporters investigating Weinstein and women making allegations against him and fair reports on how the National Enquirer helped Donald Trump run an Pharaoh's new book is called catch and kill Ronan Farrow Welcome back to Fresh Air do you see your book as sketching out a pattern of how powerful men protect powerful men in part because a lot of powerful men have their own secrets to hide. I think that that is a fair summary of one of the major themes that plays out in this part that unravels in this book there's a lot of different threads of reporting and I'm proud of each of them they're all really meticulously fact checked and sometimes require a lot of vulnerability and honesty in a way that's not always flattering to me about myself but what they all do converge to show is whether I'm talking about the private espionage world and black cube and this cloak and dagger operation that plays out around me or am I the publisher of The National Enquirer and it's collaboration with powerful men shut down stories are the way and b c news gets used as an instrument of suppression in the story it does all unite to give a picture of a world in which it is not a conspiracy theory but very much a reality that there is a network of old boys who hold boys' club who shield each other from accountability so you are reporting for n.b.c. You were an investigative correspondent at the time you started your investigation into Harvey Weinstein's alleged predatory behavior and you write about how n.b.c. 1st slow walked your investigation and then basically shut it down at n.b.c. And you write that you learned that they were pressured by Harvey Weinstein with the help of am I American Media Incorporated the parent company of the tabloid The National Enquirer So how did Harvey Weinstein to your understanding leverage his power through am ah to stop n.b.c. From broadcasting your reporting and I should start by saying that n.b.c. Denies this I was about to make the same point and obviously that denial is in the book loud and clear Harvey Weinstein denies a lot of the things in this book and b. C. Denies a lot of the things in this book Am I denies a lot of the things in. This book but we do have a multiple sourced account backed by heavy documentation of a scenario in which n.b.c. News at the same time it was arguing that it could not report on secret settlements with Harvey Weinstein's accusers was also in acting a pattern of its own secret settlements and nondisclosure agreements with sexual harassment and abuse accusers within this news network and in a period in which n.b.c. News claimed to its journalists that they had no settlements with such accusers I document in fact that there were 7 and today n.b.c. News has acknowledged that they as in the case of so many of these settlements make the claim that it's just a coincidence that these women were paid out and happened to have complaints but these were larger than typical payouts and everyone involved in those transactions talked to me for this book and said these were about shutting up women with harassment complaints within this company and this played out over years Terry some of these were complaints about Matt Lauer some of them were about senior executives at the company but it all conspired to create a situation in which over the course of 15 or more secret calls between Harvey Weinstein and top n.b.c. Executives which they have also now been forced to acknowledge after initially denying it they made commitments and promises to kill this story and we print in this book legal letters in which Harvey Weinstein is threatening me with a lawsuit and says point blank I have a deal with n.b.c. They have given me written assurances that they will kill this story and assert a copyright claim to try to make sure the material that I reported there doesn't end up elsewhere and it's worth noting n.b.c. Denies that as well that there was any such deal but the reporting in the book suggests that there were surance is made that really strike me Terry as under analyst Eric. I think correctly right now the great reporters at n.b.c. Are anguished about that they are asking why so you're saying that Harvey Weinstein used his leverage to stop n.b.c. From broadcasting your reporting So what leverage did he have over and b.c. . Harvey Weinstein laid siege to n.b.c. And it is very clear that at the same time he had retained the National Enquirer services and we have many heavily documented examples of him collaborating with Dylan Howard the editor of The National Enquirer who has threatened to sue in various regions of the world to stop booksellers from carrying this book and that in that time frame the Enquirer was in fact ramping up its reporting on Matt Lauer and allegations of misconduct against him they ran several stories that were about Matt Lauer and misconduct they behind the scenes were calling people at n.b.c. Aggressively they obtained the resume of the woman who is complaint ultimately got Matt Lauer fired and yes we have multiple sources who say in this book that there was an explicit threat delivered but what is indisputable you know we include all the embassies denials of an explicit threat but what is indisputable Terry is that this company had significant secrets in trying to the very highest level of its corporate practices and that that placed them in a difficult position when Harvey Weinstein came out them with threats and enticements So are you saying that there was a quid pro quo that Weinstein would use his leverage on. The publisher of The National Enquirer to either publish or suppress the stories they had about Matt Lauer depending on how n.b.c. Behaved toward your reporting like you saying that if n.b.c. Broadcaster reports that there'd be reports in The Enquirer about Matt Lauer Oh let the very detailed account of those events in the book stand on its own. We do include multiple sources saying exactly that who would have been in a position to know and we also include N.B.C.'s denial about that but what is not in dispute is that there is a paper trail of secret settlements that were previously concealed and that n.b.c. Is now acknowledging and despite the fact that they say these were unrelated to Lauer and unrelated to these women's complaints about sexual harassment misconduct in the company These were very large payouts that the people involved said were designed to conceal those allegations and that N.B.C.'s lawyers began threatening in Forstmann of as reporters circled this. Bear in mind that at the same time I'm reporting this story that's about similar secret settlements and I'm being told by N.B.C.'s lawyers you can't report on secret or sexual harassment settlements those are ironclad they're repeating Harvey Weinstein's talking points there so you know I think that Harvey Weinstein's claim that there was a deal is substantially backed up by the transcripts and accounts of the conversations that I relayed in this book and I think that the broader picture and Terry this is important because this is not just about one network or one set of executives the broader picture here is when a company has those kinds of secrets it creates vulnerabilities that can really hurt that company that can allow people to continue to get hurt within the company and that can distort coverage profoundly that absolutely happened here I don't think you can look at the reporting in this book and conclude anything but could you clarify for listeners what you're saying about Am eyes role in getting n.b.c. To stop your reporting. So there are multiple sources who do indeed say that a threat was delivered directly to n.b.c. About what am I had on Lauer But again this is not supposition or speculation am I began running an increasing number of stories about Matt Lauer and allegations around him during the same timeframe that Harvey Weinstein was working with am I And during the same time frame in which I will. Working on the Harvey Weinstein story so you have me reporting on these claims about Harvey Weinstein you have Harvey Weinstein in these secret conversations very very deep and very numerous with n.b.c. Executives and doing things like sending them a bottle of Grey Goose after the story is kills to congratulate them you know these are contacts that were initially concealed and Harvey Weinstein meanwhile has been in the war room with Dylan Howard the editor of The National Enquirer they are huddled together at the beginning of this process Dylan Howard pulls Matt Lauer's killfile of the dirt that they have a Matt Lauer they run one story after another about Matt Lauer the star of this network and they besiege n.b.c. People with calls and these things were all happening at the same time that n.b.c. Secrets were under profound threat of exposure and that Harvey Weinstein was coming at them throwing everything he had at them to get them to stop. Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is investigative reporter Ronan Farrow his new book is called catch and kill lies spies and a conspiracy to protect predators we'll be right back this is Fresh Air. October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month and project sanctuary wants to shine a light on the serious issue by partnering with local cities display purple lights and act as a reminder that anyone can be a victim abuse has no place in a healthy relationship love shouldn't hurt if you are so many you know isn't a domestic violence or sexual assault prices call Project sanctuary 247463 help for in the minutes you know County or 96 for help on the coast. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is Ronan Farrow who's an investigative reporter and a contributing writer for The New Yorker His new book catch and kill lies spies in a conspiracy to protect predators is about his reporting on Harvey Weinstein at the time he started doing the reporting he was a reporter at n.b.c. He says that they made him stop reporting and suggested he take the reporting someplace else which he did he took it to the New Yorker where it was published a few weeks later and it won a Pulitzer Prize and his book investigates why and how n.b.c. Stopped his reporting on Harvey Weinstein and also investigates how Harvey Weinstein hired private investigation companies to investigate and follow Ronan Farrow and some of the women who were making allegations against Weinstein. So you take your story to The New Yorker and then Weinstein's legal team tries to stop you and the New Yorker from going any further I want you to describe the cease and desist letter that was sent by Charles harder from Harvey Weinstein's legal team to the New Yorker. Well there were several legal threat letters sent to me during this process Terry this is something of an occupational hazard I get a lot of legal threat letters and you know it's a completely fair right that people have to issue legal threats but I'm thankful to say that in all cases so far they've been very spurious and that includes the ones directed at this book trying to stop publication that includes the ones I got during the Harvey Weinstein story and in Harvey Weinstein's legal threat letters which came to me personally they came to the New Yorker they came to n.b.c. a Number of things are striking one is that his attorneys lean heavily on a purported deal they claim to have with n.b.c. News and b.c. Denies that there was ever such a deal we include that denial in the book but reporting in the book also does suggest that there were numerous secret conversations with executives that they have now admitted to in which they did in fact promise to get rid of this story I'll let the reporting in the book stand on its own in that respect but certainly Harvey Weinstein's claim in these legal threat letters was he had an arrangement with n.b.c. That promised to kill the story and they had even offered to assert a copyright claim should I ever try to take the material elsewhere the other striking thing about Harvey Weinstein's threats is that like so many of the attacks that my reporting has withstood on a number of these stories it became personal Harvey Weinstein weaponized every bit of dirt he could find no matter how unrelated you know these letters had long tracts about a pedophile uncle of mine who I've never met to the best of my knowledge but it was apparently credibly accused and in fact convicted of molesting underage individuals it included a lengthy tract about my sister's allegation of sexual abuse against my father would yell and it accountability. Suggesting that she and I somehow were brainwashed Harvey Weinstein even placed a call to Woody Allen I report in this book trying to ask for talk. Points of that type and you know Woody Allen declined to intercede but credit card receipts from Harvey Weinstein the same timeframe showed that he did follow up and and buy books to research all of Woody Allen's arguments that were used to smear my sister my mother or you know there is a kinship here in that in both of these cases and I you know I do talk in the book about really listening to my sister's claim closely pulling all the court documents realizing that it is highly credible both of these cases you have powerful lawyers and private investigators descending on the criminal justice system officers working on the case on reporters working on the case and really trying to subvert the narrative and I didn't even realize that comparison at the time but certainly there was no direct factual link you know I had nothing but positive associations with Harvey Weinstein going in for the little that I knew about him and the idea that you know someone whose family member has been sexually assaulted as somehow unfit to report on the issue of sexual assault has obviously been roundly dismissed and laughed at by any journalist who saw those threat letters but these were the arguments that were made these kinds of very attenuated here are these dark and painful things in his past and therefore. I don't know what the argument is you know he cares too much he's too close to it which is a question that I very frankly in the book a lot of the reporters who worked on the Harvey Weinstein's story talk about being obsessed with it fixated on it and I think that passion about the issue even informed by something like my sister's painful experiences where I understood what it was like to struggle with coming forward about a claim like this is not only appropriate but sometimes a necessary factor you have to be passionate about a story like this to break it in the face of a lot of opposition Well one when the New Yorker got a letter from Harvey Weinstein. Lawyer basically saying that all the interviews you've done for n.b.c. With a property of n.b.c. And you couldn't use it for The New Yorker or any other publication and that if you used any of the interviews you'd done for n.b.c. You would be engaged in misrepresentation deception and or fraud and there were threats of millions of dollars in damages if you precede it you write that The New Yorker's lawyer said in response in a letter we find the issues you raised to be without any merit whatsoever. What was your reaction when you heard that reassuring response. You know that lawyer is Fabio Bertone the general counsel of the New Yorker who has been behind so many tough stories that might not have otherwise seen the light of day and yes in many ways catch and kill is about crimes and cover ups but it's also about the incredibly brave journalists who do the right thing and don't cut deals and keep going with the story and stand up to the threats it's about the sources who refuse to shut up over and over again and so I hope that fundamentally it's actually an optimistic story because I come out of those events feeling optimistic because of people like my sources people like Fabio Bertone and David Remnick the editor of The New Yorker who don't fold when they get these kinds of threats and on a personal level Terry you know I narrate very honestly in a vulnerable way how exposed you feel when your bosses who are supposed to be defending your reporting throw you to the wall you know and I was at that time paying for camera crews out of pocket to keep interviews going had been told you know if you ever reveal n.b.c. News had anything to do with this story we're going to publicly expose that we're terminating your contract I was very much alone and then when finally the New Yorker greenlit the story and stood up to those threats in the way you described it was so meaningful personally and I think also so meaningful for all the sources involved so I just want to read the statement that was a part of the statement that was issued by Andy Lack chair of n.b.c. News and Miss n.b.c. Pertaining to your reporting at n.b.c. And Harvey Weinstein he writes here the essential an indisputable facts n.b.c. News assigned the Harvey Weinstein story to Ronan we completely supported it over many months with resources both financial and editorial after 7 months without one victim or witness on the record he simply didn't have a story that met our standard for broadcast nor that of any major news organization not willing to accept that standard. And not wanting to get beaten by the New York Times he asked to take a story to an outlet he claimed was ready to publish right away reluctant Lee We allowed him to go ahead 53 days later and 5 days after the New York Times did indeed break the story he published an article at The New Yorker the brewer little resemblance to the reporting he had while at n.b.c. So that's a statement issued by the lack of n.b.c. And obviously has been roundly discredited not only in the reporting in this book but in the wider press right now you know the producer at a working level on this recently wrote an article for Vanity Fair saying he too witnessed the shutdown of the story and you know we did always have multiple named individuals in the story but again that's not the point the point is they ordered a stop to reporting and they told me to take it elsewhere and I did and a few weeks later a Pulitzer Prize winning article emerged from it and I'm immensely grateful for the sources who were brave and stayed in the game and tolerated a period in which a news organization was trying to shut them down on behalf of a very powerful person and said this I find particularly interesting in your book is I had been a liability when I was with n.b.c. And I was a liability after I left. I'm wondering why you decided to report the story about how n.b.c. And did your reporting at n.b.c. Like after you won the Pulitzer and your Weinstein story was was you know just like a claimed you could have just kind of ended it there or just you know continued as you've done reporting stories about other people who have been accused of sexual harassment but you know reporting on the media outlet that you used to work for is like a different it's just a different direction to take that is nobody wants to do that yeah the burning bridges you know there's no you know in. Wanting to do it or you know get vengeance or anything these are you know it's an organization full of journalists that I like and respect who are outraged about this and many of them are sources in the book and even. These executives are people that I liked and respected outside of the context of the killing of the Weinstein story so this was something that I was compelled to do out of journalistic necessity. My guest is Ronan Farrow a contributing writer at The New Yorker His new book is called catch and kill after a break we'll talk about how Harvey Weinstein hired a company to stop journalists like Pharaoh from investigating Weinstein sexual misconduct and to prevent women from coming forward. About the tabloid The National Enquirer and its efforts to help Donald Trump I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air . Our Family Foundation supports w.h.y. Was fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas meaningful conversation support for n.p.r. . Employers who want to see a deeper sense of the person behind the resume learn more at Indeed. N.p.r. . And from Western hotels and resorts offering a range of options for. Their menu on demand fitness program and signature Heavenly Bed learn more at Weston dot com a member of Marriott boy. Investing in local community and working with World coffee research to protect the future of coffee better coffee every day with a simple mission and a commitment to doing good along the way dot com values support also comes from. Recognizing Your time is. Certified. To serve you when they say it can't be done. Let's get back to my interview with. His new book is called Catch Farrah want a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting in The New Yorker on Harvey Weinstein's alleged sexual harassment and assault of women Farrow had started investigating Weinstein. But network executives blocked the story from ever being broadcast and then let. The new book investigates why he says that story involves Weinstein the National Enquirer its parent company I. Attempt to keep secret the allegations of sexual misconduct against. Welfare I was investigating Weinstein Weinstein hired people to spy on. I want to talk with you about how you and the woman who were making allegations against Harvey Weinstein were investigated and I think it's fair to say harassed by private investigation companies that Weinstein hired. And said before we get into some of the details about that you were so concerned you moved into I think your house was was bugged your phones seem to be bugged you moved into a safe house you left your home moved into a safe safe house you took out a safety deposit box put your list of sources and all your reporting documents in it with a note that ended should anything happen to me please make sure this information is released were you thinking you might be murdered and I think a sort of in a perhaps rare moment of self-awareness say in the book you know this was the note of a very very stressed person who you know didn't know who to trust anymore and that is all true you know I was being told by sources to get a gun I was looking over my shoulder a lot and suspecting I was being followed and was able to in the end document the fact that I was being followed. And I put all this in the context of I'm not a journalist in Pakistan I'm not a journalist in Russia. People in those situations wind up dead all the time when they report on powerful interests and thank God we are in a country where there is the protection of the 1st Amendment and other legal protections but I do tell the story to highlight how not just me but a group of reporters faced tactics that you know now that people are reading the book they're saying things like It seems like a spy thriller but as easy as it is to be glib about that those are cloak and dagger underhanded tactics that should be reserved for spy thrillers they should not be directed at the free press in this country. Harvey Weinstein hired more than one company private investigation companies to invest in you and women making allegations against him one of those companies black cube was. An Israeli or is an Israeli private investigation firm whose staff included Israeli military former Israeli military and intelligence officers the former director of the must Saad sat on the company's advisory board this company created front companies and false identities. You got a copy of the contract between Harvey Weinstein and black cube can you tell us what was in it. Harvey Weinstein's attorneys led by David Boies story attorney you know worked on Supreme Court cases something of a liberal hero. You know defended gay marriage rights very prominently. Signed a contract with this Israeli private intelligence firm black cube. Explicitly tasking secret agents with killing reporting on Harvey Weinstein and obtaining a copy of a work in progress book. That Rose McGowan The actress was in the process of writing which they believed might contain a rape allegation against Harvey Weinstein and the contract also promises all mine Avatar operators to to use and. Deploy false identities it promised an investigative reporter on the payroll of black cube to pretends to be working on a story and call people there was a full on. International espionage operation that was built up around this and one striking detail of this is Terry at the time when David Boies put his signature on a contract saying go out and kill reporting including reporting by The New York Times on Harvey Weinstein he was separately his firm was separately representing the New York Times. Yeah it's kind of you know it's remarkable when I when I reported that 1st the New York Times did in fact fire his firm. As you might imagine so you may you mentioned that black you created false densities false companies fake reporter . Does that really offend you as a journalist that they were somebody posing as a reporter to get information and to be used against the people who were talking to him. I mean now that you frame it that way of course yes but actually I think my emotional reaction when I really unraveled at the paper trail behind this plot was to just feel immensely for the victims who were targeted and you know Rose McGowan I think when people read the full extent of what she went through over the course of the plot that unravels and catch and kill I think they'll be angry on her behalf because she had her life infiltrated by a secret agent using a false identity who got so close to her that at one point she said You're the only person left I can trust Rose McGowan thought that she had a best friend who was a women's rights activist named Diana Phillip who was approaching me under the same false identity at the same time who was actually a black cube agent named. Who was a trained actress and trained in psychological operations and was passing secret recordings of Rose McGowan back to her alleged rapist I mean that is reprehensible behavior and I hope that one of the things to come out of this book is a conversation about the need for accountability in the private espionage world let me reintroduce you here if you're just joining us my guest is Ronan Farrow He's an investigative reporter who's a contributing writer to The New Yorker and the author of the new book catch and kill lies spies and a conspiracy to protect predators we'll talk more after we take a short break this is Fresh Air. These Saturday's. Celebrations. That. He's visited. More. Jane from 3 to 5. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Progressive Insurance offering its home quote explore so shoppers can evaluate options in one place when buying home insurance quotes and rates are available online learn more at progressive dot com and from Alliance for lifetime income educating Americans about annuities and protected lifetime income online and across America as sponsor of the Rolling Stones 2019 u.s. Tour Alliance for lifetime income dot org. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is Ronan Farrow He's the author of the new book catch and kill lies spies and the conspiracy to protect predators and the book is about his reporting on Harvey Weinstein's alleged predatory behavior and its reporting he started at n.b.c. The book also investigates why n.b.c. Declined to actually publish that reporting to actually broadcast their reporting and why he ended up doing it at the New Yorker Instead the book kind of connects the dots between a lot of powerful men who have done many different things to suppress women's allegations of predatory behavior so am I figures prominently in your story that's American Media Incorporated the parent company of the tabloid The National Enquirer Dylan Howard is the chief content officer and who figures into the book they figure into the book in part because of the Harvey Weinstein story and how they were collecting a lot of information about Matt Lauer I mean they had a Hold on Matt Lauer didn't they they did what's called a kill file which they have for various celebrities containing all of the dirt that they haven't published on someone and so that dirt is like ready to be published at when like what why are they holding it. There's various reasons why am I doesn't publish things I document in this book that in a number of cases they don't publish things because of arrangement they brokered with a powerful person the book documents the practice of catch and kill it's where the title comes from it's an old tabloid term and it refers to buying the rights to a story to bury it and it's used both literally in the plot with respect to several stories that am I goes after and tries to bury for Donald Trump and others. But also figurative Lee about the media's role and sometimes not just venting but also suppressing stories and in the plot that unravels in this book Am I 1st plays a role aiding and abetting Harvey Weinstein Dylan Howard develops a very close relationship with Harvey Weinstein We have all of his statements saying this was purely a professional relationship but it it we document extended to you know secretly recording people who might be used to impeach Harvey Weinstein's accuser is really going after accusers in collaboration with Harvey Weinstein and I followed the trail of clues from that collaboration with Weinstein all the way up to the top if you will to the collaboration between President Trump and The National Enquirer and a number of great publications and trolling including The Wall Street Journal have broken important stories about this but I personally reported a number of stories about cases in which am I sought or actually did buy the rights to a story in order to get rid of it during the election and that subsequently has become the subject of a serious criminal investigation and am I ultimately after trying to conceal this and telling me adamantly when I reported these stories it didn't happen there was no collaboration did sign a deal with prosecutors admitting to potential violations of campaign finance law and in the book Terry there are new revelations about their collaboration with Donald Trump. And you're for one of the people your friend to is Karen McDougal the former Playboy model who had a sexual encounter with Donald Trump and there was a catch and kill with that and am I So there are a couple of existing stories where there's new information about them in the book one of those is that am I did indeed purchased the rights to Karen McDougal's story in order to bury yet another story that I broke which is elaborated on in the book is about a case in which they purchased the rights to a claim by a Trump Tower doorman that he was aware of a relationship trumpet had that had produced a love child quote unquote. So the investigations into those are reported on but there is also another case previously undisclosed in which and my attempts to go after claim about Trump. In collaboration with Trump's associates you know in contact with Michael Cohen and others and in that case they don't succeed if they're not able to find the person they would have to buy the rights from but it's to do with an anonymous Jane Doe allegation that was made in a lawsuit. About Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Well can you tell us about that well like many of these catch and kill stories it's unclear whether the underlying claim has any veracity you know the lovechild story as well we went to pains when we reported in The New Yorker to say the story is not this claim which may or may not be spurious and also some level who cares the claim and the thing that is absolutely worth caring about is the transaction the fact that there was a potential violation of campaign finance law here and a media outlet acting as an arm of a political candidate and here again there is an example of collaboration between the candidate and the news outlet the National Enquirer to try to go after a story and. Here again the underlying claim in that lawsuit raises a lot of question marks may well be dubious in the book lays that out very clearly but the fact that am I went after it has not been disputed by them they've confirmed it and is yet another interesting. Data point in this unfolding saga which is still a subject of serious criminal investigation well you describe Michael Cohn who had been Donald Trump's personal lawyer going to the Enquirer and requesting all of the inquires material about Donald Trump tell us about that meeting yes so this is another significant revelation in catch and kill I talk about for the 1st time seeing the master list of all of the Trump dirt if you will that am I had in its vaults early in 2016 they they being the National Enquirer and Dylan Howard created a master list of everything that they had on Trump and again you'll sense a running theme here the story here is not what was on the list we thought it's about 60 entries and this is the. 1st time a reporter has seen the insides of the vault if you will it is you know mostly news that has already been out there there's about 5 affairs some of those have become public but you know consensual affairs type items there's you know at least one allegation of abuse but it's the Jill hearth allegation which ultimately did become public but what is a significant story is that this list was made and we have a multiple sourced account backed by documentation of National Enquirer leadership beginning to shredded documents related to trump in the days before the election and this is strenuously denied by Dylan Howard we have that denial in the book but there are ironclad accounts of him ordering a destruction of documents and a year later when a senior official at the National Enquirer went to check whether all of the trumpet dirt still existed in the vault there were documents that were missing consistent with that account of document destruction. And it was like after that series of encounters that the Enquirer started endorsing Trump and am I right about that. And then during and overlapping throughout the election the Enquirer as it was seeking to catch and kill stories for Trump was also sort of descending farther and farther into this rabbit hole of indorsing Trump really hammering on Hillary Clinton and you know it's interesting those of us in the way you do you know how many 100 years or headlines like sociopath Hillary Clinton's secret files exposed Hillary she was always on the verge of dying and yeah. Right right for the whole year she was she was about to die according to The National Enquirer. And I think that a lot of us in the press do. Counted the significance of that right we weren't conscious of all of this real estate on checkout stands at grocery stores all around the country being devoted to pushing one candidate and that's where the criminal investigation and the non-prosecution agreement signed between e.m.i. And prosecutors is significant because it acknowledges that something quite possibly illegal and quite possibly material to the election in the future of this country played out the stakes on the plot threads that I pick away at it in this book are very high you know both for the individuals involved and for the future of our democracy we had an election that was very much I think affected by this practice of catch and kill so right that I am I employ were told kill unflattering leads about Trump This is during the campaign and seek out information and lock it up in the vaults so was there no pro quo what did Am I get in return for covering up information about Trump. Shredding documents about publishing unflattering headlines about Hillary that you make it sound like that's part of the whole deal. Well you know they have no admitted that there was a quid pro quo and that there were meetings in which a deal was struck to collaborate in this way and you know on am I is part I explore this a bit in the book you know you saw things like David Pecker getting a lot of access to the White House suddenly getting a lot of access to potential Saudi donors at a time when the Enquirer was on its last legs and suffering from declining circulation numbers and a lot of debt so you know we're very careful not to say anything speculative but certainly there are ways in which David Packer the head of the National Enquirer at the head of am I and others at the Enquirer benefited from this and we talk about Dylan Howard as you mentioned the editor of The National choir. Who worked under David Pecker you know sending friends pictures from inaugural events you know really having access and being in the corridors of power so there was an exchange of access and large us for killing these stories it appears let me reintroduce you here if you're just joining us my guest is Ronan Farrow He's a contributing writer to The New Yorker where he won a Pulitzer Prize for his investigation into Harvey Weinstein's predatory behavior his new book is called catch and kill lies spies and a conspiracy to protect predators we'll be right back after we take a short break this is Fresh Air. Palookas it very explicitly says Ross Myers and if I'm here to tell you they were coming to play a concert Eagles hold for a 21st of October. They don't understand I'll translate into American for you to look easy way explosiveness coming to play a concert Nicholas Hoult on October 25th. I still think we're going to see a date because it should be date month year I can agree as a nordo following a thing as. We're not here to educate you have to see a date go to see the literacy here to get you to come to the concert. So that we could start doing that it's great Get your tickets and I was Mark in Fort Bragg it was cold Mendocino online but in particular Stockholm. And if you could have had to say on the subject we can check up on the night if you will see the I look forward to it. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is Ronan Farrow his new book is called catch and kill lies spies and a conspiracy to protect predators he is a contributing writer for The New Yorker he won a Pulitzer Prize for his investigation into Harvey Weinstein's alleged predatory behavior the new book is an investigation into why when Ronan Farrow worked at n.b.c. They declined to broadcast his reporting on Harvey Weinstein and they basically ended their relationship with him it also investigates how Harvey Weinstein hired a private investigation firm actually more than one to investigate and try to discourage reporters and women from coming forward it also investigates American Media Incorporated am I which is the parent company of the tabloid The National Enquirer. Did the National Enquirer ever try to discredit you. Yes I write very openly in the book and you know began talking publicly right after Jeff went public with his claims about this about the fact that as I began to break these stories about the National Enquirer I too became into one Howard's words National Enquirer fodder and he sent a letter to David Remnick saying you know you know furiously railing against me and saying you know Ronan is about to become National Enquirer fodder and I indeed I did for a for a brief shining moment Terry I was in all caps and Sarah Dillon and the pages of The National Enquirer and I joke about it but it is it is actually it's you know painful and intrusive than an ugly business to have an outlet that is essentially you know a thinly veiled attack dog for powerful people come out you and say you know you better come in and talk or we're going to just unleash whatever we want to make up or dig up about you and with the Enquirer's usually a lot of both. So part of the story is over for you you finish the book it's published part of the story is just beginning their reaction to the book and probably. Lawsuit threats or whatever like what do you what are some of the things you're up against now that the book is published Well those have kind of you know come in in the past months to you know those were preemptive threats and a company every story that I embark on. Doing these kinds of investigations of powerful interest means that you get a whole smear machine spun up against you every single time you know it happened on the Weinstein's right happened on the c.b.s. Story it happened on the n.b.c. Story it happened on the air my story and all I can say is I have been immensely heartened Terry by the way in which fellow reporters have rallied around the journalism in this book and defended it and independently corroborated it and the reaction has been pretty uniform I mean it has been explosive but just like with the Harvey Weinstein story I think people have seen through the spin and I think that they have correctly pulled out of this book the important themes which is there are system still in place that some of the top institutions in this country that aid and abet and protect people's accused of serious crimes and silence accusers and shut down reporting but there are also really brave sources who continue to speak and reporters who continue to bang their heads against the wall trying to make sure the truth comes out and I believe this process of reporting this book with immense hope and immense optimism because I don't see any signs of that stopping without asking you to say anything that your sister Dylan wouldn't be comfortable with you saying what impact has your reporting on women who have been sexually assaulted or harassed had on her because she says that her father your father Woody Allen sexually I don't know assaulted harassed. Did whatever word is the appropriate want to use when she was like 7 years old. Believed for so long and I think people are taking her much more seriously now but if you felt comfortable saying a few words about the impact of your reporting and other people's reporting on her . So one of the threads that runs through the book is My sister's courage in maintaining her claim year after year including at times when people really refused to hear her out when she was going up against a powerful guy that was much loved who commanded private investigators and lawyers and a lot of this playbook that we've seen in later cases to try to shut down her story and you know I wanted to be honest and vulnerable Terry about the fact that I was not always heroic in my conversations with her you know I flashback in the course of this plot to moments when I tried to shut her down and I asked her why she couldn't just move on and told her to shut up and you know I hope for everyone who has a survivor of sexual violence in their life and is grappling with the way in which that can be a shadow will for everyone in that survivors orbit. Draw strength from the honesty of those conversations because she held me to a higher moral standard and it was a long journey getting there but over the course of this book I do come to an understanding that I was wrong and she was right and her claim was credible it was backed by serious serious evidence and deserved tougher questions and tougher coverage and she is sort of a voice of conscience in the book that keeps me going and for that I am profoundly grateful and you know part of the plot is also her coming out of her shell and reiterating her claims in the present day and being heard in a meaningful way for the 1st time and and owning her talents and in a whole lot of ways even outside of her allegations reclaiming her life and I'm happy to say she she does the illustrations throughout the book which are great and it's kind of a medicine Doria of you know when we meet her in this book I'm telling her why why don't you use your talents to the fullest you all of your portfolio she's an artist you know sitting in drawers and she's kind of dealing with trauma and so it was an honor to have her talents represented in the book too in that way. Thank you. Thank you. It's a. With a shore excursion included in every port more at Viking cruises dot com. Next time you know USA every year the United States celebrates Columbus Day but many cities and states are opting out to the growing movement behind Indigenous Peoples Day Indigenous Peoples Day just really opens up this opportunity for conversations and the rest of the time we don't think about native people that next time you know us Jane joining me for like you know USA Tuesday afternoons at 3 and Casey Wian. You were listening to Casey Wian x. 90.7 f.m. Follow k.z. Why is the 91.5 f.m. Willetts a new Kaya and k 2 a one h.r. 88 point one f.m. In Fort Bragg Mendocino County Public Broadcasting listener supported community radio. Support for Casey why x. Comes from our members and north coast Brewing Company celebrating 30 years of brewing excellence supporter of remember research with North Coast stellar i.p.a. And home of jazz at the Sequoia room Saturday Oct 19th trumpeter and composer Eric Jacobsen brings his content to the Sequoia room for one show information at North Coast brewing dot com. Happy Tuesday afternoon. I'm Jeff Salter host of roots in all and that's what you're tuned in to and I do this show every Tuesday afternoon from one to 3 pm I want to take a moment to thank the our my listeners the listeners of roots and all for coming through and of course many people including Devorah and Kathy and Steven and so many others helped me make my personal show goal but also more importantly we were able to get the station's goal for our pledge drive thank you want all for your support of public radio Well we have a really great show lined up and we have some very interesting. Events coming up station events coming up in the very near future we're going to start the show with a brand new release by Kathy.