Kelsey we have got into recess here but I will say as we kick off our recess from this day long markup that you know at the end of the day as long as this is taking this is going to go down in history because this is going to be the 1st time since 1988 that Articles of Impeachment have been advanced through the House Judiciary Committee and it's going to be only the 4th time in u.s. History that there have been articles of impeachment the other 3 being Andrew Johnson who was impeached but not removed from office Richard Nixon where the Articles of Impeachment made it through the committee but not to the full house before he resigned and Bill Clinton where he was impeached in the end but not removed from office right and you know I think what is really interesting about this hearing much as we are hearing people repeating themselves is that we're really seeing a cohesive defense emerge from both Democrats and Republicans in a way that we hadn't really seen that in previous days they are Republicans are now coalescing around a message that the president didn't do anything wrong and we did not hear that necessarily from them at the beginning and Democrats really are trying to tell both voters and so their constituents and also the president that they don't believe that he acted in accordance with the constitution they're saying they're doing this to protect their rights as the Congress to be a check and balance on the on the presidency you heard the number of Democrats say that they are doing this because we do not have a monarchy in the United States we add a Republican it is their job and duty in they believe to hold this president accountable where they see wrongdoing now Republicans are trying to dismantle that argument saying that this is entirely political though as we've said we've heard this argument play out over and over over the last 12 hours let's zoom out for a 2nd because if the Democrats do this evening and. I should say there are only 3 hours left in this evening on the East Coast but if they do this evening pass these articles of impeachment through the committee and then impeach the president in the full House of Representatives it goes to a trial in the Senate but the expectation in Washington is that there are enough Republicans that are going to break from the president to make any difference there and actually convict him and so he will therefore be acquitted in the u.s. Senate and then what happens well and then it comes to the voters and Democrats has had that in many times in these proceedings is that either they do not expect this habit to convict this president but that they say that it they're sending a message to voters about his conduct and they say that they really believe that it was their duty and responsibility to bring his conduct to that this public trial but but if the if if it goes to the voters and the key issue here is that the president was trying to solicit election interference then is that a fair election if if if everything the Democrats are saying is correct that he was trying to you know put his finger on the scale in the upcoming election then that it's not a good thing that it would just go to the voters because the Democrats wouldn't believe that election would be fair right that is one of the great binds of all of this is that this whole process in which Democrats say they're trying to ensure safer elections may be convincing voters that the elections are not safe voters who maybe didn't feel that way before it is a difficult it's just difficult situation for both sides to be a difficult situation and do you expect that the trial in the Senate if it happens Kelsey would be short long 2 weeks 4 weeks 6 weeks we're still figuring out the details of that I know that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell had meetings even just this week to try to figure out what that that trial would look like we do expect that there will be a trial though and I think that's important to reiterate that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said that he plans to happen when he says it is their responsibility and the White House says that they would like one I think there may be a potential disagreement about what that trial looks like this is special coverage from n.p.r. News. I'm Jeremy Hobson joined by Kelsey Snell of the Judiciary Committee in the House of Representatives has just taken a break of about a half an hour and so we are waiting to see whether when they resume there are more amendments Calcio they're going to be more amendments before they actually vote on articles of impeachment so that they have not been telling us what how many amendments there are how do you how many more are coming they will be exclusively Republican amendments and we did hear earlier from Congressman Rush and Voller Republican congressman that he thought there were several more amendments to come and each one of these amendments is taking it back hours of debate so it's really unclear exactly how much longer Republicans are willing to keep challenging these articles of impeachment in this way because they will have another opportunity to challenge this process when there is debate on the House floor next week Ok We're going to take a step back now as we wait for the lawmakers to resume the markup on Capitol Hill and look at how we got here the House Intelligence Committee open public impeachment hearings last month and in his introductory remarks Democratic chairman Adam Schiff sought to convey a sense of what he saw as the gravity and historical importance of the proceedings the questions presented by this impeachment inquiry or whether President Trump sought to exploit that allies vulnerability and invite Ukraine's interference in our elections whether President Trump sought to condition the Fischel acts such as a White House meeting or u.s. Military assistance on Ukraine's willingness to assist with 2 political investigations that would help his reelection campaign and if President Trump did either. Whether such an abuse of his power is compatible with the Office of the presidency the ranking Republican on the committee Devon Nunez offered a very different view describing the proceedings as theatrical and partisan after vowing publicly that impeachment requires bipartisan support Democrats are pushing impeachment forward without the backing of a single Republican the witnesses deemed suitable for television by the Democrats were put through a closed door audition process and a cult like atmosphere in the basement of the Capitol or Denmark Democrats conducted secret depositions released a flood of misleading and one sided leaks and later selectively released transcripts and a highly staged manner that set the stage for the 1st witnesses starting with acting u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor who testified about the special relationship between the u.s. And Ukraine Ukraine is important to the security of the United States the largest country in Europe by landmass Ukraine is a young democracy struggling to join Europe and ally itself with the United States it has been violently attacked by Russia which continues its armed aggression against Ukraine to this day. If we believe in the principle of the sovereignty of nations on which our security and this is a curator of our friends and allies depends if we believe that nations get to decide on their own economic political and security alliances we must support Ukraine in its fight against its bullying neighbor Russian aggression cannot stand Ambassador Taylor also brought new information to the hearing he talked about something he learned after his closed door testimony before the House Intelligence Committee it centered on a meeting held by the us Ambassador to the e.u. Gordon Sandland Taylor described a cell phone conversation between silent and President Trump a conversation overheard by one of his staff members following that meeting in the presence of my staff at a restaurant Besser Stalin called President from and told him of his meetings in Katif the member of my staff could hear President Trump on the phone asking Ambassador Solomon about the investigations as a silent old president from the Ukrainians were ready to move forward following the call with President Trump the member of my staff asked investor Solomon what President Trump thought about Ukraine as a song responded that President front cares more about the investigations of Biden which Giuliani was pressing for. The committee would eventually hear testimony from Gordon Sunland But House Democrats called other witnesses before him including Marie Yvonne of it former u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine she described a plot to oust her led by President Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and she warned that the trumpet ministration had been undercutting American diplomats abroad this is about form far far more than me or a couple of individuals as foreign service professionals are being denigrated and undermined the institution is also being degraded this will soon cause real harm if it hasn't already the State Department as a tool of foreign policy often doesn't get the same kind of attention or even respect as the military might of the Pentagon but we are as they say the pointy end of the spear if we lose our edge the u.s. Will inevitably have to use other tools even more than it does today and those other tools are blunter more expensive and not universally effective for his part Gordon Sandlin testified that he was doing what President Trump asked Sunland was one of the so-called 3 Amigos who with energy secretary Rick Perry and Kurt Volker then a special u.s. Envoy to Ukraine was working on Ukraine policy Here's a clip from his testimony Secretary Perry ambassador Volker and I worked with Mr Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of United States we did not want to work with Mr Giuliani simply put we were playing the hand we were dealt we all understood that if we refused to work with Mr Giuliani we would lose a very important opportunity to cement relations between the United States in Ukraine. So we follow the president's orders someone was questioned by the Democrats' staff attorney who asked about a cell phone call that someone had with President Trump a call that was overheard by David Holmes a diplomat in the u.s. Embassy in Kiev who said that the president was speaking so loudly that one point Ambassador Sandlin held the phone away from his ear Here's a clip from soundless testimony the 1st speaker is Daniel Goldman the Democrat staff attorney and you don't recall the specifics of holding your phone out far away from your ear as Mr Holmes testified but you have no reason to question his recollection of that do you I mean it seems a little strange I would hold my phone here I probably had my phone close to my ear and he claims to have overheard part of the conversation and I'm not going to dispute what he did or didn't hear well he also testified that you confirmed to President Trump that you were in Ukraine at the time and that President Selenski quote loves your ass unquote Do you recall saying that had sounds like something I would say. That's how President Trump and I communicate a lot of 4 letter words in this case 3 letter. In his testimony David Holmes made clear that the u.s. Embassy in Kiev believe that a meeting between Selenski and Trump was important to the Ukrainian president's reform agenda it is important to understand that a White House visit was critical to President Selenski presence Olinsky needed to show u.s. Support at the highest levels in order to demonstrate to Russian President Putin that he had u.s. Backing. As well as to advance his ambitious anti-corruption reform agenda at home testifying alongside David Holmes was Fiona Hill a former National Security Council official she used her opening statement to offer a fact check of the unfounded and debunked claim that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election based on questions and statements I have heard some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a company against a country and that perhaps somehow for some reason Ukraine days this is a fictional Navas if this is being perpetrated in propagated by the Russian security services themselves if you know Hill also raised her concerns about the circumstances of Maria von of it his sudden removal as ambassador to Ukraine here she is being questioned by Steven Castor the Republican staff attorney were you encouraged as of your your last day day in the office that u.s. Policy towards the Ukraine was headed in the right direction I was not and why was that. Well I was come so and about 2 things in particular one was again the removal of. And again I will say for the record that the president has a perfect right to remove any ambassador at any time for any reason but I was very concerned about the circumstances in which her reputation had been maligned repeatedly on television and in all kinds of exchanges I felt that was completely unnecessary if the president wanted to remove an ambassador which he did quite frequently it was a number of ambassadors it moved who were not political but Korean officials that was done but without these kinds of interventions I wondered what that message was being sent so that was the us and then in the 2nd front it was very clear at this point that there was let's just say a different channel and operation and relations to Ukraine one that was domestic and political in nature and that was very different from the channel of the loop however you like it that I and my colleagues were in while we were focused on bilateral relations and us foreign policy toward Ukraine and these 2 things said diverge to at this point Vienna who was among the final 2 witnesses called by the House Intelligence Committee for public testimony the proceedings then passed to the House Judiciary Committee which is now weighing whether to draft articles of impeachment against President trouble rather whether to vote on them the committee held its 1st hearing last week in the hot seat were for law professors all experts on constitutional law 3 of them appeared at the invitation of Democrats they testified that yes president trumps attempts to pressure Ukraine into announcing investigations that would benefit him personally and politically do warrant impeachment here know a Feldman of Harvard Stanford's Pamela Karlan and Michael Gerhardt from the University of North Carolina your use of office occurs when the president uses a feature of his power the awesome power of his office not to serve the interests of the American public but to serve his. Personal individual partisan electoral interests drawing a foreign government into our elections is an especially serious abuse of power because it undermines democracy itself our Constitution begins with the words We the People for a reason if what we're talking about is not impeachable the nothing is impeachable the dissenting voice that day was Jonathan Turley from George Washington University who was brought into the invitation of Republicans he argued the Democrats have rushed the process and presented no compelling evidence of the commission of a crime no proof of a quid pro quo that is why this is wrong it's not wrong because President Trump is right is call is anything but perfect it's not wrong because the House has no legitimate reason to investigate the Ukrainian controversy it's not wrong because we are in an election year there is no good time for an impeachment you know it's wrong because this is not how you impeach an American president so some of the testimony that has led up to this day and this night when lawmakers are considering 2 articles of impeachment against President Trump the 1st for abuse of power the 2nd for obstruction of Congress there have been no witnesses in today's 12 hour marathon markup just members of the House Judiciary Committee 24 Democrats 17 Republicans although one of the Democrats is out so 23 Democrats they've been debating the articles of impeachment and offering amendments chairman Jerrold Nadler Democrat from New York Open the afternoon session with a defense of Congress and its role as a co-equal branch of government to check and balance against the executive branch I for one will protect our liberties will do everything I can to protect our liberties I do mockers see our free and fair elections and the separation of powers that says Congress the president and the judiciary check each other and know nobody can be a do. Tator the ranking member Doug Collins Republican from Georgia mocked the argument he said Democrats were making we're trying to stop a dictator we're trying to stop a dictator that's not what you're trying to do you're using for inflammatory language because you want to make a better point because right now your facts are filing and you put 2 articles of impeachment that you really don't want to the band because either you defend them passionately and you look sort of silly doing it or you don't defend it and you look even worse for bring it up lawmakers also turn their focus to the constitutional separation of powers with clear differences between the parties Zoe Lofgren is a Democrat from California and the only member of Congress who's been a part of all 3 modern impeachment inquiries Richard Nixon Bill Clinton and now President Trump she said Trump's actions threaten the balance of powers if this the havior persists the balance carefully balanced sharing of power between the 3 branches of government is gone forever it means that only one branch executive branch will have the right to decide what happens in the United States of America and that is a very different hype of country than we have enjoyed for over 200 years and it is not a piece of good news for freedom in the United States and Republican Tom McClintock from California offered a different view and a defense of the president's position. Congress can no more intrude into the policy discussions of the president than the president can intrude into our own policy discussions that is essential to the separation of powers now there is a natural tension between the branches as a byproduct of that separation of powers and when that tension cannot be resolved then we turn to the judiciary and that's the appropriate way to resolve the different interpretations of the boundaries between the Congress and the president the appropriate response is judicial review not impeachment the president has every right to assert his constitutional rights and he has every responsibility to defend the Parag it gives of his office his very oath of office compels him to do so Ok So that brings us up to date on where we have come from over the last couple of months and today and where we are now n.p.r. Congressional correspondent Kelsey Snell joins me now Kelsey as we said the lawmakers have taken a brief recess they are about to come back in to the hearing room there on Capitol Hill where you are and what is next how much is left of this marathon day of markup it's so hard to know at this point because it is up to Republicans to decide how long they want to continue fighting about amendments and we heard in that in all of that sound how intense the feelings are in this hearing room this has not been polite This has been better and at times it has been tense members are with very few exceptions simply arguing past one another at times and that has not changed so it's hard to see knowing that that has been the case for several hours what would motivate Republicans to change course if they feel that this is working and showing the president and their base that they are willing to fight to deep into the night to defend him well when you look back at this. Inquiry compared to the last 2 in modern history it does seem that Republicans are awfully loyal to President Trump there's almost nothing that he can do that would make them break away from him why is that why do they have such loyalty to this president who wasn't even really on the scene of Republican politics until you know a matter of years ago because they believe their voters are intensely loyal to this president and they say that they you know the polls show it and that the president they say is it cheating many of the goals that he promised voters he would cheat it's kind of interesting because if you look at what else is going on in the capital this week he is the president is getting a chance to kind of make that argument. They as this hearing is going on lawmakers are going ahead with legislation to approve the space forests as a new branch of the Air Force they are moving forward with a rewrite of the NAFTA trade agreement they are talking about potential for trade agreements with China they are doing a number of things that the president said he wanted to do there's a lot of legislating happening in Washington right now and that is fairly common for the end of the year December is the time when they see a deadline of the calendar turning over and they kind of get all of the unfinished work done but the list this year is just remarkably long would it be fair to say that when it comes to public opinion after all these hearings that we just heard pieces of that the tide is not really turning in any direction it seems pretty split down the middle of anything maybe it's moving a little bit in the direction of President Trump saying that he did nothing wrong it's hard to say about the political opinion in the public opinion right now just because we haven't seen a lot of good major polling since the move forward to the to actually writing the articles of impeachment I have had pollsters tell me that there is a bit of a difference of the way people think about something as large as as impeachment when they're running up to it and it's theoretical versus when it becomes a reality now it is a reality and it will be interesting to see how the polling bears out as people are processing it as as something that isn't just theoretical I want to ask you about one more thing that has come up many times in the proceedings today and that is that Republicans are talking about the transcript in fact there was one member who even said it was a complete transcript let's just remind our listeners that wasn't a complete transcript in fact it wasn't even a full transcript it was a partial transcript of that conversation on July 25th between President Trump and the Ukrainian president it was essentially a summary and I will say that there have been a number of times when both sides have. In being a little bit loose with the facts and if people were watching this closely at the list is is it's pretty surprising. That people are interpret ing these facts whatever way seems to work for them in the moment it has it's been interesting to watch that is n.p.r. Congressional correspondent Kelsey Snell we are in a short recess in the House Judiciary Committee proceedings which have been going on since 9 o'clock Eastern Time this morning that means a little more than 12 hours and we will end this day at some point with a vote on articles of impeachment I'm Jeremy Hobson This is Special Coverage from n.p.r. News. And Kelsie we talked about the president obviously having a pretty big role in telling Republicans what he would like them to be talking about today what about for the Democrats is Nancy Pelosi calling the shots. He says she is not reaching out to placate think that with the constituency week if we look at a lot in this conversation are the moderate Democrats the people who have the most to lose the people who are representing districts that used to be represented by Republicans she says she's not telling them what to do she says she's not whipping was in whipping is kind of going question will speak for pressuring people to go one way or another she says she's not doing that and she says that she believes that her members know what the Constitution says what their oath to the Constitution means and she has faith that they will make the right decision for themselves for how do you defend their oath to the Constitution what about the idea of a censure this is something that's come up maybe some Democrats who are in districts that President Trump one would prefer rather than having a vote on articles of impeachment to just censure the president is there appetite for that and why would that be a better option a relatively small group of moderates did raise that as an option they've actually raised as an option a couple of times throughout this process it would be a less severe way of saying that they believe the president did something wrong but again this is a relatively small group of moderates and there aren't even finding a lot of support within their own coalition of these members who represent formally Republican districts many of those people from those formerly Republican districts have already said that they support the articles of impeachment or they at least supported at some point in time the concept of beginning this impeachment inquiry so it was an idea that was floated but it doesn't seem to be getting quite quite the energy that those people hoped how many defections you think there would be in a full House vote on impeachment from Democrats that has been tough. That we've been trying to count up here and when you go and ask the people who have not declared a position many of them tell us that they are not going to tell anybody in Washington what their dispute what their final decision will be how they will vote they want to go home and have that conversation with their voters and part of the logic behind that is they want to be able to go and tell the people who elected them to do basically anything but this that why they've made a decision they need to go and tell people who elected them to go to Washington and get something done and to work across the aisle if they believe that was their mandate those are the people who feel like they need to go to their voters and make this about decision about defending that district offending those voters ideals something more than just a Washington statement it's Kelsey Snow on Capitol Hill I'm Jeremy Hobson And you are listening to special coverage of today's impeachment markup from n.p.r. News. It's 629 from Sacramento State this is Capital Public Radio 90.9. F.m. In h.d. Sacramento 91.3 f.m. In h.d. Stockton Modesto 90.5. And 88 point one k.-q and see Quincy streaming at Cap radio dot org We get support from Ginger Elizabeth chocolates a festive world of chocolates macaroons perfect for hostess gifts stocking stuffers and holiday gatherings on Elstree in midtown Sacramento and ginger Elisabeth dot com and from Sac town magazine whose new issue features a profile of fish farmer Michael Pasmore new play about serial killer Dorothy aplenty the cover story on great places to eat drink and play Sac town magazine on newsstands now. It says Caprio It's $630.00. This is special coverage of the impeachment market from n.p.r. News I'm Jeremy Hobson And we are in the midst of a break actually lawmakers are starting to file back into the hearing room on Capitol Hill where the M.P.'s for markup has been going on since 9 o'clock Eastern Time this morning that's about 12 and a half hours at the end of this day eventually they will vote on articles of impeachment there are 2 articles of impeachment against President Trump and actually I'm going to bring in n.p.r. Congressional correspondent Kelsey still to explain what those articles are exactly one about abuse of power the other about obstruction of Congress. The article the 1st article about abuse of power is about the president's action with regard to Ukraine civically mentions his attempts to get Ukraine to launch an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden as well as the investigation into a theory that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election and not Russia and the the act in the article discusses that he withheld aid critical aid for Ukraine in order to encourage them to do those investigations the 2nd one obstruction of Congress is about the way that the White House went about trying to prevent Congress from doing their investigation into the Ukraine affair and if you talk to members of Congress they feel that 2nd one is extremely important because it is all about defending the separation of powers and Congress' ability to be a check and balance on the executive branch. While the lawmakers have been on their recess Senator Mitch McConnell the majority leader has been on Fox News giving an interview let's listen to a little bit of what he had to say this is a thoroughly political exercise it's not like a courtroom experience is a political as they've been trying to do this for 3 years they vanish root out their courage and do it it looks to me like it may be about foreign oil now but they're going to enjoy in districts. Party to win in order to get the majority most nervous as I say all this issue with politicians political process is only Democrats Kelsie is that just bluster by the Senate majority leader's the right well it is a political process and you know that's. Entirely correct about that and you know I don't know that the polling they may have internal polling within the Republican Party but the public polling does not necessarily show that that is the case we will have to wait and see what what new polls say now that people have had some time to digest the articles of impeachment but I think it's interesting to hear McConnell weighing in so passionately he is not the type of person who is very interested in drama and is actually one of the things that I'm watching as they negotiate the rules for a Senate trial is if McConnell will take steps to kind of curb the natural drama that has has welled up in the House and the cut natural job of that the president himself likes to to encourage So that is one of the great questions about how the Senate trial will be run is if McConnell really makes things a tight ship a place where these the Actrix that we're seeing today really can't play out well and if there is a Senate trial the person who will run that trial is not McConnell It is John Roberts right the chief justice of the Supreme Court well that is right at the beginning and as we have seen in previous impeachments Tepic clearly the goal is for the majority leader the minority leader of the Senate to come to some sort of agreement on a package of rules that govern the process for how an impeachment trial will go required 2 separate sets of rules in the Clinton impeachment one that kind of dealt with the procedure of what time they would start and how long it would go and then they later had to pass another set of rules to kind of a sample. The rules for witnesses and that is the kind of thing that members of the Senate will have to vote on you know members of the Senate will actually have the opportunity to vote on a lot of judgments that the that Justice Roberts makes because they can they can request a vote on a number of things that he rules in terms of evidence and in terms of witnesses the so there will still be some power for Senators What are the arguments the Republicans have been making is that if President Trump is impeached that impeachment is going to be all too common that it will happen every time there's a president of the opposite party of well whoever's in the house. What about that this would be the 3rd in there's a member of the committee who's been involved in 3 impeachment inquiries in her career Zoe Lofgren of California that does seem pretty common Well she was a staffer before the very right mix and when she was in Congress for Clinton and she is novice they her now. That is I guess in if you pull back can appear to be common but if you think about how often that really has occurred there is a huge political price to pay to you know to go through the process of impeachment it is not easy it is not quick and it takes up so much of the oxygen in Washington fact it's very hard to get much of anything done until just this week that was hard for them to get anything done in Washington there aren't a lot of incentives for Congress to go down this route unless they feel that there has been a very serious wrong done. And does it tend to benefit the party that is in the White House that gets impeached or does it tend to benefit the party that's in the house that does the impeaching you know I think that each one of the situations is unique and of the actually very interesting to see how it plays out here that both sides have their predictions that they will be victorious and that they that their voters think that they are on the right side of history but we do have an election in less than a year that will test that question Doug Collins the ranking member from Georgia is standing in front of his seat so we imagine that the lawmakers will reconvene and get back to business or whatever we're going to call these the debating that's been going on 12 and a half hours they should be getting back to that pretty quickly let's listen to a couple of moments here the Democrats have repeatedly turned to the argument that the president had to be held in check Here's Congressman Eric Swalwell Democrat followed by Republican Jim Jordan if unchecked my colleagues Donald Trump does not get better it gets worse it gets more corrupt and we can't wait till the next election to hold him accountable not when he's trying to rig the next election so we must act to protect our national security integrity of our elections and honor our oath to the Constitution the Democrats have never accepted the will of the American people and that's why they've been out to get this president since even before he was elected. And of course you have a rigged and rushed process when you're afraid that you can't beat the president at the ballot box. When you're nervous about next fall's election you have this kind of process a rigged and rushed process this is not about the concern this is not really about the concern Mr Swallow talked about earlier concerned that somehow the president is going to do something wrong and try to influence the election none of this is about their concern that they can't they can't win next year based on what the president has accomplished in the past 3 years. Kelsey that's something we've heard a lot today that the Democrats are doing this because they are worried that they're going to lose to President Trump unless they weaken him through impeachment yet that is at absolutely a point that Republicans have made over and over again and I think Democrats would say that they would argue that instead of it being a political necessity for that reason as a political necessity because they feel that if they were not they didn't impeach the president wouldn't be upholding the oath that they took when they were elected in the 1st place you know Kelsey Well we've been talking while we've been listening to the hearing today there's been some other news you mentioned trade deal with China that you know it looks like it's getting closer although we've been there before so we don't want to jump the gun on that but also there's been news out of the United Kingdom where it looks from the exit polls that have been released after the election there that Boris Johnson is going to have a big majority with his conservative party does that have any you know effect in this country obviously President Trump has tied himself pretty closely with Boris Johnson and the British Conservatives if you listen to the partisans on Twitter it has a great deal to do with. A number of Republican strategists are saying that it should be a warning to Democrats not to pull too far to the left because that you know the electorate just simply isn't there but it's it's it's too early to tell how how similar these situations are because you know that the unique situation of blacks it hangs over their election in a way that we don't really have an analog here right although many people have said that you know when you hear bricks it read Trump because they sort of happened around the same time it happened in 2016 the vote in the u.k. And the trumpet obviously happened in 2016 so we'll keep an eye on that the other thing that happened today and you've been reporting on it I know is that the members of Congress reached a deal to keep the government running Yeah it is a tentative deal at this point it's a $1.00. The trillion dollar tentative deal which is quite large it is covers all 12 of the regular spending areas which means that it would keep the government open until next year until the end of September next year it is pretty large and we have not yet heard if the White House is supporting it so this is a deal between the 4 main negotiators in the House and the Senate Democrats and Republicans and we are waiting and we have asked the White House if they will support the deal but they have not made a public pronouncement about which way they will go which is interesting because the House says they are barreling forward with a plan to vote on this as early as Tuesday they don't they do have kind of a time imperative here though because the current funding runs out at the end of the week next week and I've heard that they don't want to end the week and go off on their recess for the holidays with the last thing they do being impeachment is that your sense or do they want to sort of stack these next week where they do a few things but the last one is kind of on a positive note that is my very strong impression and that's typically the way that Nancy Pelosi has operated and honestly the way most speakers operate is they don't want to leave the end of the year or even and he just for a short break they don't want to go out on something that is controversial and negative they want to give their members something to take home and to celebrate when they go to town halls or they're at parades or in this case holiday parties they want some reason for a voter to come up and shake somebody who's had hands not yell in their face. You know behind the Republicans in the hearing room today there have been several posters and one of them and you can hear the sound of the hearing room there because the ranking member has been seated a number of the members are at their seats right now we should be going back to the markup just momentarily but one of the signs that's behind the Republican lawmakers is a group of the Democratic committee chairs and they it shows where they're from Minutes New York and California and Massachusetts and it calls them something like the coastal elite squad or something like that what's that about yeah I think one of the undercurrents of this hearing and something that actually Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio has repeated often is that Republicans are trying to frame this as Democrats are not with the rest of the country they're trying to frame it as the rest of the country is with President Trump and this is all a part of Democrats being out of touch it is very very clearly a political message to voters. That is Kelsey Snell our congressional correspondent who is on Capitol Hill I'm Jeremy Hobson at n.p.r. Headquarters and we are waiting for the impeachment markup to continue it's been going on since 9 o'clock Eastern Time this morning it should end this evening with votes on 2 articles of impeachment one for abuse of power one for obstruction of Congress that would be historic and that would then lead to a full House vote next week and then potentially a Senate trial in the month of January. Now that the lawmakers have had their 3040 minute break do you think they're going to come back and want to rush and get this done or do you think we're going to go into the wee hours of the morning well I thought I were to predict which I add a hard time doing considering that there there's been a lot of fight in them today it looks like they're settling in for quite a bit more there are members who are point of selves energy. During says we're watching people walking in with coffees that that's not always a sign that somebody is getting ready to go to bed Exactly and it also reminds me that I need another cup of. This and let's listen to a little more of the tape that we've heard as we wait for the lawmakers to restart this is the House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler Democrat of New York opening today's session soon to notice under House Resolution 660 I now quote House Resolution 755 impeaching Donald John Trump president the United States I crimes and misdemeanors Ok And then here's the ranking member Republican Doug Collins of Georgia denouncing both the charges against the president and the process this is a just travesty and a sham from day one I could talk to I'm blue in the face but nobody on the majority cares but the spotlight is left by what is just happened will resonate over the years Republican Jim Jordan of Ohio one of the more combative members of the committee moved to strike the abuse of power charge against the president he said the president had done nothing wrong in his contect conduct with Ukraine article one in this resolution ignores the truth it ignores the facts it ignored it ignores what happened and what has been laid out for the American people over the last 3 weeks so I hope this committee will come to its senses it will adopt it and then that. Strike article one from the resolution with that Mr Chairman I yield back Republicans condemned the process is unfair to the president and argued that no crime had been committed here is Republican Mike Johnson of Louisiana I guess I need to repeat before indisputable facts again that are in this record because repetition apparently is really necessary here 1st both President Trump and Zelinsky say there was no pressure exerted Number 2 the July 25th call transcript shows no conditionality between aid funding and an investigation number 3 Ukraine was not aware of the 8 as has been said over and over here that it was being delayed in number 4 they never open an investigation they still receive the aid and they got the meeting for their part Democrats push back against Republicans argument that the process was unfair to the president here is Democrat Ted Deutch of Florida the president was given the opportunity on December 4th to present himself he was also given the opportunity to present witnesses and he did not so let's be careful in the way we suggest that rules are being violated when everything that's being done here is consistent with more than 50 years of interpretation of the rules and the very essence of why the rule is put together in the 1st place so some of the audio from earlier today I should say we promised that the lawmakers would start again and you heard that gavel that's Jerald now though let's go back to the firing of the committee is the amendment in the nature of a substitute chairman is anyone. What purpose does the gentleman see recognition strike the last word on the amendment in the nature of a substitute. Mr Chairman. This to be going to be the last this is the same Sensenbrenner Republican of Wisconsin and I would like to start out by commending the chairman for following the rules. I think that this markup is in a lot better than it could have been and I think the chairman has been probably very even handed down that that being said you know let me say that the chairman and those on his side you know the I are dead wrong on all of the issues that we've been debating both today and I asked night as well as beforehand as to Shin says that the president and other civil officials and be impeached for treason bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors I think it's very obvious that there was no treason or bribery alleged shooter and it goes around what has been alleged in these 2 articles whether they really are high crimes and misdemeanors I would submit the answer on both of them is an emphatic no. But what is the Quds do being you know an abuse of power. Is in my opinion a policy disagreement on how old the president should have approached the issues that are outlined there and let me say that as far as foreign aid goes and the issue of the 390 $1000000.00 of foreign aid to Ukraine is the one in the center is that practically every bit of foreign aid that the United States disperses following a congressional appropriation is contingent on something or another and one of the common thread is whether it's a. As stated in the foreign aid Nachman. Is whether or not there is any type of corruption that is involved in that I mean we all of conceded that Ukraine has been a pretty corrupt country and President Selenski was elected on an anti corruption platform and we wish him well in cleaning the place up the fact is is that I think the president would have been derelict in his duty at least had he held off just given the foreign aid without trying to check on corruption and that was what was going up as far as obstruction of Congress is concerned earlier today I talked a bit about the fact that this article is drafted so loosely and so weakly that it turns United States into a parliamentary form of government and the consequence of that is that whenever we have a president a majority of the House of Representatives controlled by the opposite party you're going to attempt to see the majority in the House of Representatives try to impeach the president. But I would like to finally say that we have heard an awful lot about the fact that if not all Trump is not impeached or removed from office he's going to steal the 2020 Alexion ad is one of the most outlandish predictions that I have ever heard 2020 election is going to be looked at very closely. Representatives of both of the candidates by the new is me by a lot of citizens whether they're involved with the campaigns of the candidates are not going to be pretty darn hard to steal the 2020 election. After all of this is happening but what's happening here is there's an attempt to steal the 2016 election in 3 years after the fact. Because if not all Trump is impeached and removed from office. This flimsy record these to power all of the problems of the extinguishing minority rights both in the Intelligence Committee and before tonight here and that Roy and of stealing 26 change election it will end up voiding the votes of the $63000000.00 people who voted for non Will Trump for president of the United States and I think that that will be something that will haunt this country for decades to come the time to stand up for the constitution is now the time to determine how you stand up to the Constitution is by voting no on both articles of impeachment and I yield back the balance of my time the gentleman goes back the balance of his time for what purpose does the gentleman from Tennessee see read you write the last word. The gentleman the general is regular Thank you sir I join with Mr Sensenbrenner and commending the chairman on his. Running this committee tonight has been very difficult it's been a long day and all of our were a little bit tired at least on Steven Cohen a Democrat of Tennessee chairman sort of great job but I totally disagree with Chairman Sensenbrenner and his so maybe you know what we have before us I think they are dead wrong in there and going on the articles of impeachment there are 2 articles this is in no way stealing an election if Donald Trump is removed from office the election of 2016 is not nullified Mike Pence will be the president and that's no walk in the park. It's the same policies some of them maybe even worse maybe a little bit better ethics and morals a little bit more civility. But this far as policies may be about the same there's been a lot of discussion of what we've had here but basically this is an issue about abuse of power based on testimony of. A colonel. And bastard Ivanna bitch and bastard Taylor and Dr Hill these are 4 independent class acts people we should all look to if we were all talk about as patriots they are patriots but they are career foreign service folk who have done great jobs for America are nonpartisan and they came forth out of a sense of duty to testify and what they've testified to is what happened with the Ukraine was wrong that there was an abuse of power and that's why they came forth and to say that this whole process is corrupt is basically an out front to each of those 4 patriots who came forward to those 4 career Foreign Service officials those 4 people who are nonpartisan they did a service to this country the fact is facts are in dispute that what happened was a favor though although I'd like to ask you for a favor though and then Mulvaney go on out get used to it that's politics that's what happened and then we had Saddam in silence they were all in on it and it was a requirement and to get the military aid you've got to have the now and the investigation there's nothing other than that and we've been here the last few hours it's they be used as a campaign ad for Trump you know the market's up all that kind of stuff it's not payments are being cut drastically and poor people are going to be hurt and they didn't benefit from the tax game Bob Corker who served in the Senate said the 2 biggest mistakes he made when he was up here were voting for the tax which he didn't call of that and then vote for the budget that came afterwards exploding the debt. And somebody on the other side talked about how we need to be up here and fighting that they've exploded the debt they have no traditional Republican philosophy whatsoever their current. Science they've ruined us the Middle East forever Trump has sold them out for his friend in Turkey and the Kurds were to hell with you and we gave Syria to the Russians and just yesterday met with blabber off the Russian ambassador no report of what they talked about except the White House said they talked about influence not to have influence in the next election that. You shouldn't try to influence our next elections lever off said we didn't discuss the elections that's not true it's hard to figure out which ones lie either want to have a good very good track record so I hope we finish today passed these 2 articles and do what's important to protect our democracy defend our support our oath. Support the Constitution and support our national security because all of which have been jeopardized by Donald Trump by his self dealing with Ukraine I said earlier today that the president of Ukraine was an actor in a politician I was saying bad about him a lot of actors are great I love actors I love politicians I am a politician but that's why he couldn't say that there was in he was under any duress or any influence and he felt like he was being pressured he couldn't say that because he's in a inferior position like a battered wife with her husband around who up he can't say to the police oh he she can't say he beat me up because she's there and when the police leave he'll do it again and so he was in a terrible position I look forward to meeting him own to be in Ukraine in February and I think he's going to a wonderful job and for some people over this is Ukraine was the 3rd worst. The cut in the world is like $120.00 in the rankings out of $180.00 not good but not the 3rd worst I yield back the balance of the year God bless the United States of America and wheels back I think we both share those sentiments. To you nation where group is the. Place where Mr Imus was recognized Thank you Mr Chairman before I get impeachment I just have to respond to the gentleman from this is Stephen a Shabbat Republican of Ohio I would sort of I said I really like the gentleman from going to see Mr Cohen it's mutual We worked on a number of bills together introduced so many issues he's really a good guy but he's flat out wrong about the taxes the tax cuts have really helped this country it's one of the main reasons we're seeing the economy take off and people's bank accounts and their savings accounts and their retirement accounts are so much better and more positive right now because the president and a Republican Congress passed those tax cuts without a single Democratic vote and a difference one big difference between the 2 parties Republicans want to cut your taxes and Democrats in general not every want to but most don't want to raise your taxes just a big difference but relative to impeachment back in the early 1970 s. I was a college student and our nation was going through another impeachment at the time Richard Nixon I had actually voted for me 1st president of voted for in 1972 obviously he got in trouble and was going to be impeached but he resigned before he was articles of impeachment vote out of the judiciary committee this committee but then before the House took it up he was on from office and little did I know that about 25 years later our nation would be going through another impeachment and that was Bill Clinton obviously and that I'd be very closely involved in that and of the 41 people on this committee 5 of us were here in those days Mr Sensenbrenner and I on the Republican side and chairman Mr now to learn. In Miss loft going to Miss Jackson leave all 5 of us were not Mr Sensenbrenner and I happen to be House managers the prosecutors in the case and some of the folks on the other side are going to get that opportunity and and good luck. In the end Mr Sensenbrenner remembers Henry Hyde was our leader at the time and he said we're not going to be very welcome over there and we weren't so we'll see what happens when you all are over there. But he was the you know Bill Clinton he was impeached by the House and then you are listening to special coverage of the impeachment mark up from n.p.r. News I think it's very likely that's what we're going to see happen in this case. But scuse me back then Bill Clinton put his hand on the Bible and swore to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and then he lied he committed perjury and that's something hundreds of people were in jail across the country for at the time and I thought and still think President shouldn't be above the law he had committed a high crime in this to mean are very different from this case. They're not even alleging a crime in this case there's clearly not a high crime in misdemeanor Maxwell be voting against impeaching the president in this in this instance. And I think the Democrats have been looking for an excuse to impeach this president for a long time now in fact when they took over the house one of their members filed articles of impeachment that very day and really since Inauguration Day many of them wanted to impeach him this is really all about in my view it's all about politics is live special coverage of the impeachment markup from n.p.r. News I'm Jeremy Hobson in Washington and this markup started 13 hours ago and it is still going and the members of Congress the members of the House Judiciary Committee have not yet voted on the 2 articles of impeachment against President Trump they are still debating a number of amendments that are being put forward by Republicans to try to weaken these articles npr's senior political editor and correspondent I'm in a coma is with us right now Dominica What do you make of of what's going on here and how long this is taking and where we're headed well of where we are is hearing Democrats who feel they've made a clear and compelling case about what they see as the presidents of the use of power that you jeopardize the security of an ally and of the 2020 Alexion by soliciting help from a foreign country to help himself they say he put his own personal interests ahead of the country's House Republicans of course disagree with that they say that this is impeachment lights that there is no. Specific crime that's been laid out well that's going to depend on your perspective you know Bill Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury to cover up sacks Richard Nixon committed several potentially criminal acts to spy on political rivals or Southern and in this case Democrats look at what President from did and say that he's a threat to the Constitution that he's persisting in the kinds of efforts and pressure campaigns that he's tried to tried to do and that he is willing to do when their words cheat in order to help himself for 2020 and you know we're going to see a vote out of this committee tonight Democrats control this committee this is going to advance to the floor and we're likely to see the president of the United States impeached by the full House by the end of next week all right let's go back to the hearing Jimmy's regular Thank you Mr Chairman Mr Chairman I I want to start by agreeing with Mr Sensenbrenner it is always the right time to defend the Constitution and that's the very reason that we're here there are 2 articles of impeachment The 1st is abuse of power the president of the United States this is Ted going to Daraya Florida sitting foreigner for interference in our elections cheating the American voters how did he do it Q leverage life saving taxpayer funded military.