I claim made landfall so the water levels had reached the roofs of buildings at one place and the trees were uprooted by the wind in the capital Manila operations of the international airport have been suspended. The president of Micronesia one of the country's most threatened by rising sea levels has called for a mobilization on a greater scale than the 2nd world war to combat climate change David Pen Well I was speaking to the b.b.c. After the 1st day of the climate conference in Madrid Micronesian leader said his nation of $607.00 mostly low lying Pacific Islands was facing an existential threat and he urged big countries like China and the United States to become champions of the effort to cut carbon emissions world gaze from the b.b.c. . The campaign group Human Rights Watch says Bangladesh is failing to provide meaningful education for about 400 sales and re-injure children who fled from neighboring me in ma Human Rights Watch said there was no proper teaching inside refugee camps and children with bones from in rolling in schools outside the ring are refugees say Islamic religious schools are partly filling the education void Washington is threatening trade retaliation against France for what it says is a plan's discriminatory digital tanks on profits earned by u.s. Take companies trade officials are threatening to impose additional tariffs on French luxury goods Dave Lee has the details since the biggest tech companies in the western world are mostly created in Silicon Valley Washington fails that this digital tax unfairly targets American success stories it's now proposing that if France goes ahead and imposes a 3 percent levy on the revenues of companies like Amazon Google Apple and Facebook it would slap hearings tariffs on French exports like chains champagne and handbags Sansa said it will drop its tax plan if the rest of the European Union can collectively come up with an alternative one which taxes sales as well as profits say media in North Korea has shown the country's leader Kim Jong un cutting the ribbon on a construction project in the amount bake to venerated by the nation is the birthplace of his late father the official case in a news agency said Mr Kim worked heart and soul to turn Sampson County into a utopia under socialism sometime is said to include a museum of revolutionary activities and the u.s. Space agency NASA says it found Indian's week room lunar lander which crashed on the surface of the moon in September the wreckage was identified by a member of the public after NASA released images taken by a satellite and asked people to search for it India had hoped to become the 4th country to make a successful lunar landing baby. Hello this is the arts hour on the b.b.c. World Service I'm lucky they hit with 60 minutes of the best global arts and culture conversation from across the b.b.c. Coming up on today's show in just a moment the mother of dragons herself Game of Thrones actress Emily a class on her latest role in the holiday season Rob home Hollywood actor and director divest tells us about his movie the public which is set in a library occupied by homeless people best selling Turkish with a leaf shelf up describes the touch of the cation of her mother tongue and what it's like to miss words Also actress and singer Idina Menzel on reprising her role as Disney's Elsa in frozen to. She's last the fairy tale character and more are your mythological character and it wasn't until they realize that the story started to come together because they were trying to writers your typical Disney princess and she's not that a strain actress Mia Wasikowska tells us about her role in the darkly strange new film Judi and punch and we have music from Senegalese Grio out Dia Belle Sissoko And joining me in the studio to talk about his bestselling novel The silent patient is author and screenwriter Alex Michel ladies Alex Hello and welcome to the b.b.c. World Service thank you very much it's great to be here I grew up listening to the World Service in Cyprus so it's really nice to be here and we welcome back writer filmmaker and lover of culture how are you nice free and good luck to Syria Nazri is campaigning to be my co-host on but I'm not sure whether I should take this is a compliment or a threat no no I'm a very psychic psychic so I quit. First then British actress Emilia Clarke is inescapably name the bank in areas to guard the queen and fearless leader in the massive h.b.o. Series game of friends in. He has now broken free from generics by starring in a British rum cum it's a Christmas movie and Amelia plays Kate who's working as an elf in a Christmas decoration store her life's a bit of a mass and then she meets Tom I really enjoy it I want to just take what you like to. Repeat the experience to give me your number I don't have a for. The book it was so you just begin to think you know is where does he look. Before you throw me in the bin with the rest of the battle conquests it's not completely true I do have fun. Just not in a public forum talking to Tired of Stern to handle day or we should try or something to try deaf Emilia Clarke as Kate and crazy rich Asian star Henry Golding as Tom in last Christmas last Christmas is written by British actress Emma Thompson and it's directed by Paul Feig best known for bridesmaids the b.b.c. Simon Mayer asked Emilia Clarke whether it was true that she was so keen to play the part of Kate she didn't even read the script No I didn't what is it I think people stopped the soundbite before I continued on the conversation which because it was also more a kind of you know I'm pretty sure I'm going to love it I'm pretty sure you know she could write nothing that I would not jump the chance to be involved in because she's amazing she's an Oscar winning of course legend and so my agents told me that they had and that there was a part a part for a go go of my age so I was very very excited to read that script which I did do and then it was you had to you know ask p.c.p. Is going to be in this movie Ok So given that there was a part for a quote girl of your age. So this girl is Kate Ellis to this about tell us about her Yes So Kate for me is the ultimate anti heroine she is a young go in her twenty's and living in London and in that delightful time in your life when you have no idea what you're doing in your early twenty's you've just left school or university. And the rest of your life lies ahead and look at glittering knows what that is going to feel like and be like and she has no idea so when you meet her she really is a little bit chaotic and a little bit unsure and a little bit kind of messy around the edges and where she comes from is is very relevant to the story Yes Ok comes from Catarina comes from former Yugoslavia where and her parents fled there to come to London to escape the war and she is the daughter of immigrant parents living in England at the time when Breck's it has begun so that is a huge crop point within our story and getting to kind of play a character where your heritage and your history is in a completely alien space to her because she left when she's so young there's not a lot that she remembers but my goodness do you have parents and so it was kind of interesting research and what that would have felt like for Catarina coming off the back of the most successful television program of all time. That one yet not still but. Did you think I'm going to have to choose my next job very carefully because it feels as though you think I'm just going to go for something that gives me a blast even could have chosen so many different scripts here why yes this is what I keep trying to say to people is that Game of Thrones I am I am so different to the mother dragons that the depth of that this seeming wrong. Was just appealing to me as an actor what I was going to do next never really played a very big part it was more that I was just wanting to do something different and the result was freeing for sure immediate Clark and the critically permed but box office hit nevertheless last Christmas is out now. So I guess something is not right or Alex like Levy's and filmmaker and the 3 are well I'm going to ask you to be pretty. So is the real thing comes something the appeals to you know story is it something that you like I don't think I'm in the target audience but I definitely appeals to me I think the target audience Well I think traditionally you said women Yeah I don't think that's the case anymore I love Nora Ephron American writer Nora Ephron who is who wrote When Harry Met Sally I have an of affection for those who want to know as a screenwriter Alex do you have insights into those tropes that you need to create a successful rom com Well they say it was comes down to just that you know boy meets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl at the end it's that simple is it really was I think so I mean when I I studied screenwriting at the American Film Institute in Los Angeles and I was very fortunate to have a teacher who was a Disney writer and he said to us that every movie in fact is Cinderella pretty much every rom com is probably Cinderella you know if you think about some of it pretty woman that's a very obvious Yeah every movie Cinderella if it involves a make over. That's because I'm thinking about for example like crazy rich which is a recent example of a very successful kind of rom com and all the troops over there I mean it's people said it was more progressive just because it represented so frankly Ryssdal Yeah different community but actually if you think about the underlying story it's still pretty rich in some sanity why do you need to see another movie again and maybe do you know if it's only always Cinderella for an actress so highly identified with one role and that to launch deeply in the public's consciousness how important is that next role they take I mean should it be completely different Alex what are your thoughts I think it's really tricky I think if you're really identified with a role from you know t.v. Series or already famous film it's hard to follow that because you're so identified in the public's mind of the one part but on the other hand I read a really interesting article that suggested that. The reason why stars like Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks are still so famous is because they keep playing the same role again and again and again and again and so we just identify with that one particular part but more versatile actors want struggle to sustain a career in that way what are your thoughts on a swim Well I think I was thinking about Robert Pattinson who was in Twilight which obviously was one of the biggest franchises ever our paths our paths. Struggled against that kind of being identified as that and then went aggressively into every weird project you could find and I think it's almost like performance of the wheel even in interviews and profiles in magazines and I think he's been relatively successful but I don't see Twilight when I look at him well thank you both very much. You're listening to the sound the b.b.c. World Service with me Mickey Beatty the b.b.c. Is having a year long celebration of that same literature and as part of it writers have been talking about the novels that have influenced them Turkish author elite Chef up single depth the junior will soar Lando a novel whose themes she believes still resonate nearly 100 years after it was 1st published Orlando tells the story of a man born in the u.k. During the reign of Queen Elizabeth the 1st who magically becomes a woman at age 30 and then lives for another 300 years the B.B.C.'s in Macmillan us to lead Chef up how the sentences in Virginia Woolf's Orlando connected to her writing she likes inverted sentences and I love that when I wrote my early novels in Turkish 1st and about 15 years ago I switched and I started writing in English 1st and during that time of transition digitals work was very important for me this is also a little bit of a political discussion in Turkey like everything else because we have Turkey fied our language we have Turkey fied our vocabulary as you know this was once upon a time a multi-ethnic multi-lingual empire. Yeah as a result in the old language the syntax was came from the Turkish grammar but the vocabulary came from everywhere so there were Turkish Kurdish Albanian Greek Armenian Arabic Persian words within the Ottoman language when the language was Turkish fide hundreds of words were taken out because they were not Turkish origin Ali So when you talk when you speak English and when you use words like hotspot or you use words like Smit and nobody says wait a minute the 1st is a Hebrew word is a Jewish word and the 2nd one is is an Arabic word Let's take them out of the English language nobody says that I there's a part of me that appreciates that you know enormously that diversity as a modeling group you must grow a most clear idea when you're being influenced because you'll think or dream in another language so you can somehow see the influences arriving yes it's perfectly possible to start a dream in English and finish it in Spanish so my thought is if we can dream in more than one language why shouldn't we be able to to write in more than one language over the years and then I realized I love the commute back and forth between Turkish and English that completely difference the grammar the syntax and each time I travel back and forth I learn something if my writing has melancholy sadness sorrow I find these things much easier to express in Turkish but when it comes to humor which is very important for me particularly irony or satire I find these things much much easier to express in English and I think that's a cultural difference perhaps more than a linguistic one and you referred earlier to Turkish words in a Turkish vacation you called it of language which one about Turkish words and he took his words that you love that you've used yourself or the other Turkish writers might have used in their work I mean that not to be seen as as you know. Turkish imagine an autumn dictionary is quite thick and modern Turkish dictionaries half the size around 45 percent of the vocabulary is gone so in Turkish I can say yellow and I can say red but the shades in between I have no words to describe them because they used to come from Persian another gun one example I can give is the word decided which means coincidence but then there was another word which was to awful which is coincidences that are not accidental you know so there was a nuance there that we lost what I do when I write in Turkish I use both old words and new words and I love digging those words that we have lost because I can feel their absences and those absences matter Ilesha Fuck that we heard the author talking about Turkish as a language being Turkish side and therefore evocative words from other languages have now been lost. Yes you could tell as an author and filmmaker you have connections with Favorite you went to a French school growing up how often do you use words from another language I often mistakenly use word like I think I'm speaking in English but I'll be using a French expression that I've just translated on the fly can you give me one example. That. Happens by mistake but I catch myself a go that doesn't sound quite right uh that's French and I mean all the words that express you best in one language but not another I definitely think of. Some very if you're swearing that well swearing is Arabic so everything was in the is right and the swearing is fantastic so much better Yeah it's got to really come from somewhere else and the face of the body I would say are more comfortable thinking I mean it's a very self self centered but thinking about myself expressing myself in an English I've been reading in French recently because I haven't read in French in about 10 years because I feel a bit stuck in English so I thought it would be a way to get unstuck but revisiting another language I likes Michael do parts of your Greek Cypriot heritage find their way into your writing here 100 percent salute I think that's all we have in a way where we're from you know and I don't think I would be writing what I'm writing if it weren't for growing up in Cyprus and by that I mean. The Greek myths everywhere in Cyprus they're very much in the air and the tragedies are always being Reaper forms and reimagined and you were taught Homer at the age of 13 at school and so my preoccupation with Greek tragedy in Greek myths comes absolutely from my upbringing Yeah in fact we're going to talk about your book The Silent patient in the 2nd part of the show but you have a character in that that. Approach and says What do you think just because we all know the. Mets and in fact he does know the Greek myth Yeah that's quite true but I would also think that the majority of British people would know Shakespeare quite That's not very There she is that all character in the book says it takes that is not true and a lot of people do you have a very strong leader who I feel in our instrument but I loved it when the character in your book says you know just because we're English without it we don't all know about Shakespeare notes or your work sometimes focuses on Arab culture culture multiculturalism media your storyteller can you imagine words being canceled like a leaf was talking about this something of the opposite problem in the very least in Lebanon but across the Arab world I think as well as a lot of English is creeping in French and English has always been there because of the colonial history of the region as well and it's always been a complicated history because let's say 11 on it was a like badge of honor quote unquote amongst the elites to speak French and now that's being requested because that's your ex colonizers language so all of this is being so it's I don't think it's done in the way that it's happening in Turkey or took a vacation but there is a pride in reclaiming Arabic or rediscovering Arabic even I find as I get my Arabic squired week I would say but I'm trying to make efforts to to be a bit more expressive in Arabic which language do you both dream and Alex I dream and think in English meaning what about you know sweet same English Oh I have dreams that I'm speaking fluent high altitude but I wake up and it was a dream. This is the sound on the b.b.c. World Service I'm Nikita Haiti. Carry home in. That cell let it go for a Disney's phrase in a movie which took $1200000000.00 at the box office and also needed millions of chill. And across the world know every word to that song sages every adult with a child who's seen it the fame was written by the husband and wife some writing team Christian Andersen Lopez and Robert Lopez It won an Oscar for best original song in 2013 and the movie itself is the highest grossing animated feature of all time so no wonder it is neat couldn't let it go for isn't 2 is in cinemas now across the world the 2 sisters are now grown up and Elsa the one with the special powers is Queen Elsa is voiced by Idina Menzel and the B.B.C.'s Kirsty Lange asked the Broadway star if she had any idea if Rose would be such a huge global hit when she worked on it now. I was excited to be cast in it is need movie playing a princess role having a song and knowing the historical value of that and sort of being welcomed and the Disney family that was just the milestone at that point in my career I had no idea . It was interesting there is it let it go touch touch it with the younger generation particularly it's hard to finger and sometimes I can only speak for help because me feel. That such a young woman. But woman that needs to learn from the same message which is that we often make ourselves Mauler or fear our own power and one we have that moment life where we kind of recognise what it is that makes us really unique and special It's so liberating now you do the sound recording for stalwarts an animated film did you have any idea what your character was going to look like and what was your reaction when you 1st saw your your animated princess so well the wonderful thing about working with Disney is they're extremely collaborative So we actually go. Welcomed into a room or sort of like a work room of theirs and they have walls and walls filled of images and drawings and research words that are important to them trigger words. Trigger words for also . The words that's a good question so she's less the fairy tale character and more your mythological character and it wasn't until they realize that the story started to come together because they were trying to writers are typical Disney princess and she's not that she's sort of tragic she's darker. She's got this like now let's talk about the soundtrack the 1st soundtrack was so incredibly successful how difficult a challenge was it to create new songs for the sequel The Lopez's who were just magicians and my opinion they did not try to write another let it go they write for the theater all the time they come from the idea of writing for story and for character development and what's right for that moment or not trying to write just a hit song or or the melody they it's most important what is the character trying to say here. And she told me something. You know you. Can see. Idina Menzel and frozen 2 out now well I have to write is in the studio with me today Nasri a talent and Alex Michael e.d.s. So just a quick question about the role of frozen in your life 1st of all Nasri have you seen it that it has no role in my life I. Haven't seen it because I don't have any children and I don't have any nephews or nieces so I haven't been kind of forced So to watch it I'm very aware of it obviously I've seen player play have listened to that song a 1000000 times well let's turn to our other guest in the studio Alex have you seen photos. And I have seen Frozen you know what that we gave them and can you speak then too for example how important Disney and Pixar films are to children's lives what do you see about that sort of movie that captures that hurts Well I sometimes like you know I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain extent now but sometimes I do wonder whether it captures the hearts or whether it's just imposed on them you know because I grew up watching Disney you know I love Disney but even as a child I remember when the little mermaid came out that it turns the ending from a try essentially a tragedy in Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale where she dies for love into a feel good you know how ending where she gets the guy and lives happily ever after and so there is something about Disney which is you know really. Problematic on a certain level I think but at the same time you know you do I grew up watching Disney cartoons and love them so I wrote a letter to the Disney Corporation when Aladdin came out and I was a child to complain about the portrayal of Arabs in Disney did you get your reply and I got a reply kind of Securitas reply and I got contacted by the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee who made me a member for life. That is the best story of the day saying. What upset you about the portrayal I think that I was quite excited to see something that had anything to do with the Arab world on screen because I'd never been to the arbor that I point at that age I was still in London I was 9 or 10 then when I saw it I saw where the bad guys in this which isn't how I experienced Arabs around me so I just instinctively Plus you know having grown up in the u.k. I know you know sending a letter is the you know that's how you complain about things so I wrote a strongly worded letter to Disney while testing Thank you. Don't go away there's not more to come on the including actor and rest of the time he's maybe the public and actress Mia Wasikowska tells us about Judy and punch back after this. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service News Hour the u.s. Has made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from Cabot cheese a farmer own co-op offering cabbage cracker cuts pre-sliced cheeses available in resealable packages in 6 Fridays more information at the Cabot cheese Dr cool off. This is kept Radio 90.9 Sacramento and 91.3 stock in Modesto your n.p.r. Station Good evening I mean Tony I mean as thanks for joining us an update a b.b.c. Headlines is coming up shortly and tune in for Morning Edition starting at 2. We get support from the wineries of the old sugar mill celebrating the holidays with live music food trucks and tastings of local Sacramento wines every weekend until Christmas 15 wineries 15 minutes from downtown old sugar mill dot com and we get support from the College of Business at the University of Nevada Reno whose executive m.b.a. Program is designed for working professionals the 2 year m.b.a. Is 100 percent online with personalized support more at you in our dot edu slash e.m.b.a. . B.b.c. News Hello I'm Gareth Barlow NATO leaders are gathering in London for a summit that marks the 70th anniversary of the alliance the British Prime Minister Barak's Johnson will call for unity in the face of growing divisions over Nato's future president macron of France has angered some allies by suggesting the alliance is suffering brain death President Trump is expected to ring in his call for European members to spend more on their own defense and head of its general elections next year New Zealand is introducing restrictions on foreign political donations and advertisement on social media legislation being introduced in Parliament will ban foreign donations worth more than $33.00 to political parties and candidates anonymous online advertisement will be prohibited a powerful typhoon has roared ashore in the Philippines blowing in Windows and shearing off Reeves as it hit the largest island in the archipelago typing community hit the southernmost part of Luzon with torrential rain and gusts of up to 205 kilometers per hour hundreds of thousands have taken refuge in shelters u.s. Trade officials are threatening to impose tariffs up to 100 percent on a range of French luxury goods worth $2400000000.00 It comes in response to French plans to tax revenue earned by u.s. Tech companies such as Amazon and Google the campaign group Human Rights Watch says Bangladesh is failing to provide meaningful education for about 400000 children who fled from neighboring Mira Human Rights Watch said there was no proper teaching inside refugee camps and children were barred from enrolling in schools outside them the u.s. Space Agency necessaries found India's recriminating Alamdar which crashed on the surface of the moon in September the wreckage was identified by a member of the public after necessarily satellite images contact was lost just 2 kilometers from the Main Surface babysitting ease. Welcome back to the arts and the b.b.c. World Service with me Nicky baby and a few good teachers joined us he's what you missed in the 1st help of the show actress Emilia Clarke told us about her role in Bob problem last Christmas turkey show their lives have revealed how she misses words that now can't be used in the Turkish language and Idina Menzel discussed with uprising her role of Elsa in phrasing to coming up in this half of the show in a moment Hollywood actor and director in the u.s. Davis tells us about his latest movie Australian actress Mia Wasikowska on how the message in her new film The Dark fairytale Judean punch has resonance for a modern audience probably one of my favorite parts of the movie I mean the speech that usually gives at the end about that which is me and I think you'll know could be you tomorrow it really points out how easy it is to sort of stay in the comfort of that mob but you know while you are you're you're also sort of living in fear of being the one up on the stand we'll hear from Senegalese musician Dia Bell Sissoko about bringing stories of the u.k. To Senegal and vice versa and I'll be discussing all this with my guests in the arts our studio writer filmmaker and cultural commentator in Nasiriyah Tyler and screenwriter and author Alex Michael we'll be talking about your debut novel The silent patient Alex. First though Emillio estimates who's known to a certain generation for his acting roles in hit eighty's movies like The Breakfast Club but as a director he's made films with political messages for example Bobby from 2006 about the assassination of Robert Kennedy so it shouldn't be a surprise that there are politics at the heart of his new movie The public which he wrote and directed the film is set in downtown Cincinnati in a freezing winter where the public library becomes a refuge for the homeless who would otherwise die on the streets Emillio estimates plays library in Stuart Goodson whose building is taken over by desperate people who have no choice but to refuse to leave tonight we occupy. Occupy. So right well so what about tomorrow night and the night after that or if this cold snap last in the next week and we thought about that was the good to listen to me. Every public official in this town no there's not enough salt of those people on the street. The so-called Christians he pretended to know that feed the hungry. The poor. How does that seem that's what Jesus said but I don't think he said occupy. The brilliant Michael k. Williams There is homeless man Jackson and Emillio west of as librarians Jewett Goodson in the public and b.b.c. Stable to me us to us if the film was a passion project this began over 12 years ago there was an article written published in The Los Angeles Times by an outgoing librarian in chipboard and Chip was retiring and he wanted people to know that what the modern day library look like was very different than the library remembered and he the thesis of the piece was that libraries have become daytime defacto homeless shelters and librarians are now tasked with being 1st responders so in the states librarians are now trained in the use of Narcan which is an anti overdose medication and it's in hits it's administered. By needle and so the librarians are now tasked with having to learn how to use these these anti overdose and so there's a very funny and moving secret at the beginning when you see the type of things that people request when I was writing they come that was rather large What do they what role does the library so that you wanted to capture in this well you know there's a line in the film where one of the character says. You know a librarian just Must be nice to have a job or you can sit around revokes all day I think that's a great job if that were the case the modern day librarian is in fact a 1st responder and and it was like I said with a chip board piece he ends his article by asking the reader. Are we doing enough and what can you do and I thought well I'm a storyteller I'm a writer I'm director I can should I should I started ask myself that question what can I do and so I thought Well Ok let me take a visit to the local library and see if it's just as bad as as chipboard had described and in fact it was worse and I began to. Camp out in the library and listen to stories really keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open and then I began to imagine what the story would be if if these marginalized individuals or individuals who are experiencing homelessness mental illness drug addiction alcoholism What if they stage a sit in an old fashioned sixty's that still is what would that look like do you want people to address the problems underfunded libraries or you want people to address the problems of homelessness all together it were you offering a solution to all of it all of it and I don't think that the issue of homelessness will be solved with any one piece of legislation or resolution I think that it is a collective consciousness that needs to shift and I can have in the studio not probably take you back to the sort of how sick you are of talking about this breakfast club somehow misfire and all of the huge films that mean an awful lot to an awful number of people and from that outside it looks like fun right all you have to sort of break that legend is actually was a miserable experience no no it wasn't at all but I think that people get confused by thinking that young actors have a choice when you're a young actor and you have an opportunity you say yes because by the time I got to my audition for the breakfast club I'd already been rejected several 100 times so so you never know when someone says yes to you or what you agree to do what the lingering effect of that particular pictures is going to have Emillio Esteve is that talking about his film the public my guests on today's arts filmmaker invited Nasri Attala and writer and screenwriter Alex Michael of these well Alex you've actually written 2 movies already that have been made there was last used the Connies own as it's known in some parts of the world all the parts are coming in others which starred Uma Thurman Tim Roth Parker Posey Sofia Vergara and then the devil you know in 2013 which have also been Pike Lena Olin even Jennifer Lawrence Have you ever considered it writing a film with an issue which is hot like this you know I think it's really tricky. It puts me in mind of a couple of things sang Goldman's famous quote about messages being for the Western Union I think you run the risk of being preachy if you write that kind of film that's what about you making films with issues at their hearts I'm currently working on a couple of projects. With some partners in Lebanon and we're actually going the complete opposite direction which is making pures on the fiction in a way a lot of what comes out of the Middle East and is allowed to travel the world and get funded is issue driven kind of very miserable so we have the opposite is that we want to do something that's completely detached of you know devoid of any issue within it of course there are places where you can not be political Yes not be issue driven because the places have so much going on but it's I think I try to avoid it just because I think enough people doing it from my part of the world Yeah well I mean how does somebody successfully blend a real story an issue into a feature film with movie stars that have to be big. Yeah yeah I know thoughts on that I do but I do think that you know the even entertainment shows on the pieces do say something I can say something you know they tend to be quite empty so you know using myself as an example so my novel the silent patient you know resistance really a psychological detective story and it's entertainment but at same time it's saying things that I believe very deeply about trauma and mental health you're listening to the b.b.c. World Service I'm taking baby this is the arts hour so Alex Michael Ladies let me turn my full attention to you now because you are an author and screenwriter we just mentioned the 2 feature films that you've written so far and the starry cast that they both attractive let's talk about your debut novel The silent patient really well crafted intense psychological thriller it's been a bestseller in the u.k. It went straight to number one in the New York Times bestseller list and as I. The book I saw it as a film on every single page so it was no surprise to hear that the film rights have been acquired by Brad Pitt's production company plan b. Let's talk about the story Alysia Berenson a famous painter married to Gabriel a big fashion photographer and one evening he comes home and Alysia shoots him then she never speaks another word what happened why did it happen she is the silent patient of the title she's being treated in a place called The Grove which is a high security criminal psychiatric unit in London and then we have Theo Faber who is a criminal psychotherapist who is determined to get her to talk so Alex I understand that you did actually work in a secure unit at a certain point is that right yes I I work part time in the unit basically I studied psychotherapeutic couple of different places that a postgraduate level although I never graduated because ultimately I was too selfish and I also realized that I was a writer not a psychotherapist but while I was studying I worked in a secure unit for teenagers psychiatric unit that's correct you had a lot of research behind you then presumably to write the characters in the situations in this Bourke Yes I mean it was really well I always knew that the book I wanted to write would be a kind of Agatha Christie style. Psychological thriller by that I mean you know who done it why done it exactly with a great twist at the end and a kind of maybe a deeper psychological complexity when I sat down to think about it I thought I need an enclosed iconic location and I thought what I know about psychiatric units and I don't know much about detectives but I know an awful lot about psychotherapists so I thought suddenly everything kind of came came together at that point what is it do you think about the place of a psychiatric unit show a mental health facility and patients in literature and film that always fascinates and grips us what is that about what does it say about us that makes I think you know the novel to a certain extent is about you know inhabiting somebody else's mind and experiencing what it's like to be somebody else and so if you have a novel about you know extreme psychological distress it's a way of us experiencing the darker elements of the psyche without necessarily going there yeah ourselves because it's it's quite frightening really isn't it yeah we like being frightened I think did the idea for the novel come to you while you were working in the now unit you know the actual germ of the novel came. Grew up in Cyprus under Cyprus where the Greek myths are very you know present and at the age of 13 I came across the myth of us estus which which is referenced throughout the novel Yes which to reproduce turned into a tragedy and it's a problematic play and it's not often performed mainly because also it is dies to save her husband and then she's brought back to life at the end of the play and reunited with her husband and yet she refuses to speak to him. And people don't know what to make of the silence you know she overjoyed to see him and she furious that he allowed her to die for him. And she remained silent until the end of the play something about that lack of conclusion the refusal to explain and the silence itself haunted me for 20 years and I kept thinking about how to tell the story and I tried it is a short story that I tried as a one act play even tried it's a short film and it was only having worked in a psychiatric unit where it's a little bit about updating and setting the whole story in a mental health facility that actually came together the whole form of Greek Theatre is that is that present when you're writing characters a chorus of or hubris so all those elements of Greek tragedies Yeah I think you know I don't think about it massively consciously but it must be somewhere a make up of who I am is my my new book The one I'm writing right now is very much dealing with all those these themes again so I guess it's a it's a possible yes but how lovely it is that's now your Us page is no murder Greek. Tragedy and. The silent patient is available now and you're staying with us for the rest of the program and I am looking forward to the movie version. More film now in the south and in actresses where 5 or 8 incredibly highly since I think it's still here in the outer brilliant t.v. Series In Treatment Mia Wasikowska She's probably best known internationally for her lead roles in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland and Carey for going out as Jane and you may have caught any Lisa China Deng case The Kids Are All Right so it's fair to say she makes very interesting film choices and her latest directed by fellow Australian actress Mira folks is Judean punch which is a really dark fairy tale so just a bit of background about the British tradition of the Punch and Judy shows that this film draws from they are essentially puppet shows that take. Place in seaside towns they start Mr Punch and his wife Judy and the performance is essentially a set of these little sketches between the puppets with Mr punches slapstick and violence towards Judy winning loads of laughs which I always found a bit odd and a bit sinister and my guests in the studio are nodding in agreement here anyway Mia Wasikowska plays puppet Tia Judy and Damon Herriman is punch they live in the landlocked town of Seaside a violent lawless place overrun by witch hunts and hanging so it's all very creepy part of the day you can start a wonderful show last night before you really have your way with the pop I want you really have I way with the puppet tragedy I just want to leave you wish to keep those magic tricks a little on the road so convincing Now don't be taken for sorcery in the last thing on this new someone such as yourself before the story looks just. Some fucking c. So I go. To superstition by the day it would be Mia Wasikowska as Judy there the B.B.C.'s Jane Garvey asked the director Mira folks what intrigued her about the tradition of Punch and Judy shows I started sort of do a deep dive into the history of Punch and Judy it comes from Italian puppetry committed a latte and then all of those characters with kind of anger sized and Punchinello turned into punch and that's the sort of history and then there's also very curious about what I saw or is this strange kind of devolution from quite beautiful marionettes to this very sort of simple hand puppet show that is really quite violent and deals with this kind of heavy domestic abuse and I was kind of fascinated that this this story is still really popular today and we continue to kind of tell it and show it and treasure it but I hadn't seen anyone digging into the sort of scary a elements and politics of that I grew up in Britain and. Punch and Judy was a sort of I didn't think until I saw the film actually I hadn't really questioned it now I really on easy about the fact that Punch and Judy was served up to children for apparently forever without anybody asking too many questions did you see it me or is it as a kid I don't think I actually saw or a Punch and Judy but I definitely had an awareness of it I thought simply I mean that footage at the end of the movie is from like Bond I junction or is that right oh yeah. There's the archival footage that plays over the credit you know this experience so it's these children that are watching a Punch and Judy show and it plays mainly on their faces and basically in that moment it's all about the dichotomy that I was interested in this kind of very strange combination between laughter and fear we don't know whether we're excited and lighted by something or whether it's terrifying and so so I think that's what the film that we made is really sort of setting out to explore it's all about the triumph of outsiders as well as not because there aren't there are always outsiders wherever wherever we live what would you say about that element of the film Well that's probably one of my favorite parts of the movie I mean the speech that Judy gives at the end about today that which is me and. I think you all know could be you tomorrow it really points out how easy it is to sort of stay in the comfort of that mob but you know while you are you're you're also sort of living in fear of being the one up on the stand and I just think you can see that all over the world now and probably always me I've read that you make some people regard as quirky choices for your film role and I guess you could say that Judi and punch was also another quirky choice you conscious of that does it is that what you're doing I don't know I think it's always sort of funny to see your choices viewed by somebody else and then you're like Oh Ok I feel like all the choices I've made are like completely obvious and exactly what everybody else who. Do if they were in my shoes the films I've seen you in remember Jane Eyre and and Alice in Wonderland which is the ultimate cinematic trip but most people standards could you ever see yourself in the bog standard rom com slightly ditzy you know meet a man who goes a bit pear shaped but more goes wrong and then it gets happy is that not something you'd ever want to do imo I popped like a few years ago I probably would have been like I will never do that but you know I'm sure my mother would love me to do something like a little bit more like friendly to you know grammars especially mine but. Yes So there's some that I think of brilliant but I mean I'd actually never get off of them so this is probably won't. Please no I also think they're really hard to make and make well. And there are folks there and Judy and punch is out now my studio guests today are screenwriter and author Alex Michel ladies and filmmaker and cultural commentator now 3 a Tyler the director Mira folks was talking about the theme of outsiders and do you think that we need these stories more than ever today nursery. I think a lot of stories about outsiders because outsiders are interesting and you know for example like a lot of short stories or about outsiders or even earlier we're talking about the public homeless people are outsiders to most you know to most people we don't even see them anymore which is grotesque and horrible but that's what happens in big cities so I think a lot of stories are about outsiders and about bringing us into their world and empathy and so I don't think we've ever lacked stories about outsiders I think now we might be trying to represent more people which is which is a good thing and you thoughts on that I'm like Well I think I suppose the 1st thing comes to mind is is the actor that Robert De Niro's performance in Taxi Driver is that ultimate outsider which is now pretty much been made you know seen by seen remake as the Joker. Did you enjoy it I did yes or no yes I don't know both yes but again it's sort of it's interesting how we can identify with someone who's not so much on the fringes of society yeah and all see ourselves in that person the revolution going on in Lebanon for the past 40 something days and at the beginning of the revolution a lot of people wore a Joker face paint and then there was a lot of photos that show that this happened in Bolivia Yes all over the world people ring Djoko face paint as kind of protest. You know obviously it's there's more nuances in the film and maybe you don't want to add up the fight fully with the Joker but I think the urge to Tara system down and have that face paint represented. You know is I think everyone has a bit of that in them maybe scares us as well we had me and I think as kids talking about doing things in life that are friendly to grandmas have either of you ever felt that pressure do something that your granny would like x. . I don't even given creative free lettering to be brave and bold and and it's Ok if you offend an older poet of the community I don't try to offend anybody I just try to you know speak truthfully and be honest but I was I mean I was nervous about my parents reading my novel Well usually you know what made you know things just you know rude bits to be very honest with you I didn't ever believe that anybody was ever going to read the novel Oh I wrote it totally you know for myself really and so I gave me a freedom that otherwise I wouldn't have had because I never thought my father my mother would ever read it well look Fortune favors the bold I say yes exactly have you ever worried about certain projects because elders in the community or not even elders people around you in a different headspace might be offended or shocked yeah definitely think that you know dealing with a lot of stories and working a bit with deal with the Middle East there's some sensitivity around certain issues and I think it can seep into the process which I think is dangerous and I've actually realized that I have to free myself of those kind of selfs those impulses the selfsame So when I was going to be a writer they always too which is the critical side of the brain and the creative side of the brain don't operate at the same time and if you try and use them both at the same time you block yourself and you can't write anything oh how interesting survey was towards us to edit on one day and write on another day and that's something I've always done a lot of money for that advice because you just give an example for you to millions of listeners if you want to send me a check of the 3. Finally on today's arthouse of blind 6 Senegalese musician de about Sissoko is part of the great line of Sissoko Greil it's always storytellers he became the legendary singer and guitarist problem Miles Cora player and is also toured internationally with his family's by. And the name and all kinds of other artists too and Wendy Adele came into the b.b.c. For a life session has been to calloused him how now that he lives in the u.k. His role is the Greil which is so associated with a particular community where. He's always here to keep the culture in also for me coming in u.k. Or somewhere in the world is just to discover the world and to discover what's happening there what does their culture so I can take that back to my country and share that with them so because there's so many of them also there maybe they are good as a me but they don't have a chance to travel in the world so if I travel so my mission is to discover and detect cultures from England or some around us closer to shout out to my community who didn't know so it's a 2 way thing you're bringing your traditions to us and also send them our as Yes So so many people don't know of us and they go they also don't know about real you know so for me I give them the opportunity to tell them story and also to this is why we happy to have that role in the society and what's the next track going to be you know the next one is. Tell me because tell me is not my link or or is not of French is anguish is a time for us to tell each other the truth and share also the beauty of this world given to us to share this life lovely music in the world so I guess it's a time for sharing but also for for listening for listen. Let's let's have a listen thank you. That's it for this week thank you for your if you want to be in touch with the show do e-mail the. B.b.c. . And you can hit me up directly on both Instagram and Twitter for now from me Nicky Beatty m.p.g. . Next week. B.b.c. News continues the night here on Capitol Public Radio from Sacramento State this is Capital Public Radio 90 point. Sacramento 91.3 f.m. And h.b.c. . 90.5. And 88.12 and see Quincy. Get support from Brookfield school for 55 years helping students reach their potential through a challenging curriculum and a culture of excellence tours are available for preschool through 8th grade Brookfield school dot org And we get support from European sleep design their in-store customized mattress fitting ups customers choose the right support for their individual body types because one size does not learn more of their false. Sleep design dot com. 2 2 and welcome its new day for the b.b.c. World Service live from London Great to have your company Lawrence and Clement Donal with you all the way NATO leaders are being asked to show a united front for the 70th anniversary of their organization but the partnership has plenty of fault lines financing loyalty significance a woman who claims she was trafficked as a young teenager to have sex with Prince Andrew tells her story she's been speaking to the British media and the British public to support have fight. For the people in the u.k. To stand up beside me to help me fight this fight not accept this as being. Prince Andrew has always denied and still does that nothing happened and new data shows it's people living in rural areas in the us we're now most vulnerable to constructing a child free page one of sports and business to also come here on News Day Stay with us well News is next. B.b.c. News Hello I'm Gerri Smith.