Your home for worship and the word a wave what I was 759 k.w. The f.m. San Clemente. behind the music so thanks for joining us today we pray that you're greatly encouraged by our time and lead in the Word of Christ while in your rich the Psalms Hymns and spiritual songs and today we have a special edition show from our worship leaders conference back in November where we did a session on songwriting was really the highlight for me about a week of having Paul Maybury and Jason Ingram on that panel you know when things started to kind of line up where we saw that these 3 you know guys that have just like written hundreds of just amazing songs that we saw that well they're going to be there in the same room at the same time when it be great if we could actually get them all up on say just to just share and it actually worked out and it was the most you know just like action packed kind of like wisdom filled time yeah awesome that we get to actually air it now and share Yeah yeah super special and these guys have written songs that are song and have been song around the world if you could probably law she wrote open has my heart in your name and in a kind of takes you back to those moments Jason Ingram who's written hundreds of songs co-written so many songs with so many well known artists across time and not Redmond and the list goes on but then Paul may bring who was from Hillsong Australia originally and played drums on the Hosanna track Yeah but as a great songwriter. In his own right so yeah I was so excited that that actually worked out at that time and just to see and hear what the Lord has done in them and the humility that came from them was so to me so beautiful they were just full of faith but full of just humility and gratitude that really impacted me to the way yeah one of the things that stood out to me was that during the session Paul blushed he actually put his microphone down to him got you know pan out and started to actually write notes on what the other guys of their own sage were. Not sharing and so yeah it was just like such a goldmine experience Yeah and so I think it would be wise for everyone now to probably pull out you know a pen and get their handsets and just write some of the stuff down that is it's just going to be awesome Yes Well without further ado we're going to jump into this next edition of pure worship radio that was held at the cover chapel worship leaders conference a myriad of hot springs in November 2016 with Jason Ingram. And Paul Maybury give a warm welcome to our special guests Yes So Paul Rick if you'd start off with you just how did you how did you start how do you get into songwriting where you started writing songs right. You know playing a lot of other people's songs for a long time just studying them growing up of course whatever bands you grew up with but for me you know the class the typical Beatles and James Taylor and all that I didn't grow up in church so I grew up in a Catholic churches are just different but anyway then kind of discovering how to you know born again experience got into a church where they were sitting in this praise and worship was like wow it's so cool these people writing so just beginning to hear songs like that and just playing a lot of them and but I never really thought of myself as a songwriter. The beginnings for me where as I started the lead worship at the end of the song maybe I would just sort of feel like well yes lure I'm in God I just love to be in your presence with your people just singing praises God you know and that was like a revelation for me as just a little prayer would come out of my mouth. I remember the 1st time taking a risk you know in my late twenty's in our little church in Texas go on then it almost sounds like a song doesn't it I love to be in your presence with your people and we were the kind of church a little bit you know there's a 5050 charismatics and 5050 conservative but enough charismatic so they were like Yeah. So I just liked him with a good. Princes and with you know. Singing in. His and. Then I looked at my drummer and we just started doing that and this right 5 minutes our church went off in a little tangent and that really was like the 1st time I remember you know taking a little prayer idea and just go he would just sing this little idea and it was a spontaneous thing and then as that started happening more and more sort of paying attention to that and going hey maybe later this week I get with the keyboard player would say What do we think a couple weeks ago what if what if we had another section to that that's if you try to write a song for our church you know and so that was. The thought of ever doing a cd or getting a song on a cd was so it was never in my mind it was like if we could write a song that our church would sing how cool would that be you know. Rico chase and I would you might do the same thing my stories are going to be far inferior to Paul's all day. Both Paul's. Show about that. For me songwriting really came I was almost like therapy I kind of. As a teenager I was kind of locked up in myself a little bit and I struggled with my faith pastor's kid and I struggled with. My relationship with the Lord and. Whether I believed or not and. I really I started writing as like. Morris like a personal journal a way to express myself and my dad still says will say to this day. The way he gets to know me the best is just listening to my songs it's just sort of an outlet for me. And it still is that today but that's where it kind of came from and then. I would write songs. That were just sort of on my heart to write and I honestly like it was kind of in this season one Paul was starting to bring these songs out to the church I grew up in Santa Cruz California and we would go around campfires and learn I want to learn guitar and so we started playing these these songs around can't fires and some of Paul's songs and. That really unlocked my heart to the Lord and then I just wanted I wanted to stay in that place with my own prayer before the Lord and I've been writing songs ever since Palmieri you know I I started playing piano at the age of 5 and because my parents told me to stop playing the piano. My grandmother was my teacher. And so I remember. From the time that I worked out you know that's middle c. And play in the face with my fingers on the notes just being fascinated by how many and from I kind of felt like from the moment. I started find the piano I was trying to think of melodies and harmonies you know so it's interesting now I've got 3 boys and they're all taking piano lessons and they too are more interested in making up their own songs than learning the ones that they're meant to be learning but. I love that I love the natural inquisitiveness that happens with music you know so for me I remember growing up around music my my dad was a big band leader when I was when I was really little so a Fender Rhodes was a space ship and a piano was like a space for station and you know musical instruments for me were just part of you know growing up you know as a. Songwriting was a very natural step you know I think the 1st song I ever write was about a girl and. It was called Malden friends. Which we. We actually just remain friends but. It's a pretty sad story but. We don't have to get into that now it all worked out in the end so but you're also played drums are avid drummer primarily a drummer now would you say oh yeah yeah drums of b. . Pays the bills I would say. For me drumming start at the age of 12 my dad was a speaker evangelist and I was at a church camp one of the many weekends. Preachers kids and you know funny things to do. And everyone was at lunch so the hole was empty and the drum kit was vacant and I remember walking up and starting to tough away on a strong kit and I didn't know it but the drummer the owner was in the back of the hole and he ran out of the food hall and said you know Graham yours is how long is your son played the drums and my my dad said he doesn't play the drums and he says what he does now. So I didn't know it but they came in and stuck in the back and I was listening to me place a beat apparently so yeah I was apparently it was of natural thing for me. I thought it was more fun than the piano for me personally and that was kind of the start of the. Yeah there's a lot to talk about with sounds all the samples that you're putting out. We could talk about that probably for days but yeah I mean I'm told that that was really born out of helping people to to rock and create music you know so. Also So let's let's talk about kind of you guys been writing for many years now but maybe you could talk about what what really inspires you now to write to continue to write kind of with the driving motivation for songwriting Paul you want to kick it off again without. Things like Jason said it's always a great baseline Motivation is like a snow the spiritual discipline to journal your prayers you know to journal your thoughts journey your prayers you know chronicle your walk with the Lord and then at some point you know spending time putting a melody to it if you're inclined to do that kind of thing so pretty much what Jason said that's how I feel as well the beginnings were a way to sort of work through just the stuff of life and you'd hear a prayer so I would say Fast forward to this day it's the same thing I was taking notes last night when Pastor Brian was preaching so I just try to have my antenna up for teachings prayers from people are praying sometimes you know when someone's not even trying to you know they're not trying to write a song or be clever they just sort of out of their heart they just say something and just go on man that's something that's good we should sing that to God and I'm just so just kind of. Saving up these like you're walking on the beach looking for a little sea shells you know as always having your antenna up for in conversations teachings sermons prayers again prayers come out of your mouth if you lead worship oftentimes a lot of my own song started which is say Hey good morning church let's stand up together and. I don't know what kind of week you've had but let's just take a moment to just kind of get our thoughts together and you know keyboard which is plain c. And it's Ok Lord. Lord we just see your words as we can cast our cares upon you so we cast our cares aside we put our doubts behind we just sent our hearts and minds when you Jesus and you know then I know that our sound guys always recording our worship so I don't go oh stop everyone I think I have a song idea. But I make a mental note you know is another another time maybe a year later it was just like Lord let This is pray before we get started in bands playing a g. Chord is Lord as we come into your presence Lord we remember every blessing that you've poured out so freely from above and just. You know I don't know if you hear that but at least to my ears it was like well that's the feels like a line to a song somewhere so the idea is just like capture those on your digital phone or in your journal and then carve out time as much as you can to just sort of play with those ideas and worship with those ideas and just kind of see this is sort of you know what kind of a song could this be a ballad or maybe a what's a child what's this little idea saying you know it's gathering ideas and a ballad is it on your face in the Holy of Holies. So I'm just inspired still to this day to just take an idea and to now I co-write a lot co-written a lot of songs with Jason where it's fun to take an inspired idea and get with a someone that you you have respect for musically and say hey you want to kick something around and you throw them out and they threw out that's a whole nother thing we could talk about co-writing such a beautiful dynamic that I love. Anyway that's awesome. Really wouldn't answer the question the same as Paul just did. I'm always inspired to think you know like can you keep writing songs and how do you keep writing songs and how do you have something new to say but then I look at like the Charles was Lee's and the fanny Crosby's and you're looking at like $5000.00 songs in a lifetime plus. We're certainly nowhere near that and I love that. The object that we're writing songs for is inexhaustible and so there's just you're just not going to run out. You know you're not going to run out of things to Express about who God is and you're not going to run out of reasons to worship him and so. It just keeps me coming back but I think. The biggest thing that people need to hear more than what gets you inspired is what gets you a song and the what gets you a song as your calendar. Really. If. We tend to be a little bit over the creative types that we all are we tend to be a little bit overly romantic about how God's going to give songs ensues church and Paul so there's a discipline to it and there really is there's the songs of mine that people people know and sing and they've become their own prayers were all at one point an appointment on my calendar. And saw as tell songwriters if you're if your calendar doesn't say you're going to have a song this month then you're probably not going to have one. That was one of the questions I had to you is how much of it is inspiration and what's just old fashioned perspiration hard hard work but that's a beautiful way to say you have to calibrate it so what does your typical week look like Jason for I mean obviously you do it for a living but what if you could give us the inside of the. With what we do it's particularly the maids and i like we often palm Avery is known as maids by anyone who's a friend the Aussies tend to like certain names put S's at the end I call it and it's just so the maids and so what we do often is. We write a lot a lot and. I still try to limit there's people in Nashville that write 5 days a week 2 times a day. I can't do that we can't do that but we do end up writing with a lot of artists that are needing songs for their albums and they come in and asked . For us to join in on that process with them it's would still be common for me to 2 or 3 times a week to. Be writing a song with somebody. But then as well also and because we were a production team will end up in productions on albums that take you away from songwriting for a month what the one thing that I do because I have to write so much is. I've got the discipline par in place because it's my job but what I what I need to make sure I keep in place is inspiration thing and so the way all I do that is I find the 1st the 1st few minutes of the day or when I'm the most like unclouded creatively. And so at least once a week get up early and make a cup of coffee in the 1st thing I'll do is go to my room I'm music room and grab a guitar piano and I'll just start playing 4 chords or 3 chords or some pattern or some rhythm and an ice for me it's like just riffing for that moment of inspiration and then. And sometimes you get something that later becomes a song and sometimes you don't but I do that. All the time and that's my moment where then if I can grab that little thing in a bottle then I've got it later for when I'm with someone and we need to we need a song that's a it's a great insight the finding those unclouded moments inspiration and that's the 1st part of the day for you it's interesting because most musicians we tend to be more late night hours but the older I get the more I 100 percent feel the same way unclouded moments to be more early these days. If you want to add to that you know I think. Deadlines and spices. Like 9 songs done on a 10 song record that's inspiring to me we need one more song by the end of this week so no deadlines but if it's not your job. I think in general you can come a song specifically for the church to 2 different angles I think obviously there is tons but you really break it down there is celebrating liturgy or prayers that have been written thousands of years ago and finding yourself in that verse or that's a waver in Scripture you are. Finding yourself in your meditation of what has been written already. And we do that a lot in church. Write songs to Scripture Yes. That's a great starting point but I also think that there's. Real value in. A starting point of a song being really honest. And looking at the words that you're writing down and asking yourself Is this moving you is this your honest statement yes I think that that's a wonderful starting point for the church to start in an honest place and it sounds I guess it sounds kind of weird to say that but. To bale authentic and to be real about what you're writing I think will get you a more special result. Of it being in a rotting session and the line that was being said was about sin and I said to the other 2 people in the room what do you what does sin mean to you the wood and you know in a short amount of time we realized sin actually kind of had lost its sting like we had heard it so many times in Christian culture that what did sin actually even mean you know did that did it make us feel a certain way or did it did it take us somewhere that pointed us to the cross and to God and all they realized was it didn't really emotionally it was kind of like one of those woods that. Kind of had lost its impact and so. I started digging around and thinking what it was that really kind of mean something for me a shame that something you know and if I was myself will how does shame feel I say it feels heavy feels like a weight. So then who's Jesus in that and and where is he in that and so I was thinking well he's strong like Jesus is strong he's strong enough to lift my shame and nail it to a tree you alone hold the power to redeem and in that moment I'm like All right it feels like I'm saying something that is from an honest place when I feel ashamed and I feel like I've done one thing one too many times that I'm never going to get it right I feel heavy and in that moment on a Jesus to walk into that moment right there. Not dust myself off and make myself presentable but just stay in that moment say Jesus I need you here and as a Believe me you realize in that moment he is there. He's been there before you and you can ride out of a place that's honest and vulnerable does that make sense so instead of maybe cleaning everything up and making it neat and tidy and presentable odd encourage everyone to stop where it's real like stop where it stop stop where where the celebration is if you're running about something that's. That's it that God has done that is wonderful you know so anyway honesty is a great place to stop you to feel that's great insight Paul you're writing a bunch so I want you to listen with a pen in your hand. Skim good stuff here. It's one of the playoffs you know Jason and Paul are saying you know it's kind of their job if you will you know like a disappoint in their life it's their job in a sense that they're calling the rotation they show up they do it but I just want to go back you know 25 years ago for me when I was in my church and there was a keyboard player Ed Carr great piano player and I was a guitar guy and we had he was classical background I was more like rock background and we just decided when we meet at the church like when can you do it's Tuesday cool when we met like Tuesday mornings What about any other days so we try to meet about $3.00 to $4.00 times a week at the church for a couple hours we went to a bank got a loan to get a 16 track recorder Fostex reel to reel and member it was $5000.00 and. That was a lot of money we had there and I was livin a livin in a van down by the river basically. And I just want to encourage you like as you hear him say that I mean there's been years and years and years before you know they had a chance to write with artists and you may go well if I had a chance to really carry a job sure you know but no no no these guys wrote hundreds of songs before that same year like hundreds of songs that you'll never hear us that songs we thought were actually good we demo them we put horn parts on them background vocals put it on a dat tape and then Fed Ex to do a producer and you know just hundreds of those and just after you know so I just encourage you to as James said the calendar at such a that's a key word even for me a re inspires me something about just showing up and maybe if you need someone that you respect musically just accountability wise to show up and say let's just give us a shot bring a couple ideas will look in the word we'll think about what pastors preached in the last couple weeks maybe there's a phrase a line or a theme we can start there or maybe some has a chord progression but there is that consistency just showing up as a big deal but I don't want you to feel like you know I'm sure it's easy for you to say no no no it was actually easier when no one was asking me to do conferences and like produce records or whatever you know and I don't I'm not complaining I'm grateful I get to do that but when nobody was asking me to do anything it was like I could just show up at the church almost every day with my buddy and we would write songs we'd start crying at times we'd pray thank you Laura out you know just felt like it was so real it was such an outlet for our spirit and then everyone out of every 5 maybe we'd say you want to teach this to the church will feel like this this feels like so this baby steps you know we didn't try to like through every snoo song in our church but we just tried to be selective and go hey guys you know if we introduce this idea we're working on last week and based on pastor's sermon a couple months ago. And I just tried this course with us and it was just I'm just trying to give you a picture of like start where you're at start right there and just show up you know real quick to not some bolts like just straight up a good starting point for a song once you are writing is some of the science like I got as I believe really good things happen when science come together the right balance well some of the science of songwriting is there are 2 components that you usually find in a good song and that is the theme and variation and tension and release so . A good friend of ours Reuben Morgan and Jason are forever right most united the song right so the. There's your theme. Does again down to. The end and then the end. As you think is the variation done to the end and then the end and then the end and ends with the theme and then turn around and and in the. Tone to the want fame and variation in the verse it's tense it's all down it's brooding it's waiting if that was the whole song kind of in trouble right because it's sitting there going like this it's like a tiger ready to pounce you know so if it if the lid doesn't lift or as a songwriter you're not aware that it needs to lift you're in trouble if you're sitting there going This is what it needs and often when you're co-writing someone may come with a chorus and it sounds like it's already live that's the lift that's the release then you're going to work on the tension there is a science behind it usually so the tension is boem boem boem boem boem boem now we need something to lift we've got the tension we have the theme we have the variation now we need the lift and that's. Not a Live to just lift it up Ok you understand so there are some things that play in the song it's not just grab and it's and there are things that we're looking for when withdrawn ideas around the chords you know so I theme in variation tension release that's for the note takers out there. Right about. Yeah so much great great little nuggets Paul what about like a song story that you could think of just a meaningful song. Story for you. Can think back and slowly erode that you felt like man it's worth telling I mean honestly like to just to the low hanging fruit like some songs you may have heard I started with just keeping a place in your Bible or your journal of title ideas you know just a concept and again based on hearing of the guy pray pastor Lord we just prayed tonight as we look into your word that you open the eyes of our hearts and help us to comprehend your mysteries and. You know it so that could just go over your head or your antennas up you go out like that thought it feels honest policy and open the eyes of our hearts learn to want to see you in men yeah yeah so then maybe a month later you're just noodling during a prayer time your new q.b. Is like you've run out of songs the saying is the Lauda over the. We want to see you you know and you just going to hang in there you know writing a song but you're like praying with it you're worshipping with that idea and then that then it starts to develop I find above all was another just just the phrase on the where I heard that could've been a commercial like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but above all don't forget to the level you know it's above all on I had such a shell of thought I remember thinking wow that was above all that was like in a hymnal that be like the 1st song kind of less was an aardvark phrase or something . A b. Above. But anyway but the idea of it as Jason said just sitting down I'm not really a piano player much just you know just know some chords sodas and just trying to think just taking a title and go on what kind of say about the Lord be with that phrase that's above all your. Lord You're man you're above all all the stuff in this world all the powers all kingdoms all all the 7 wonders of the world so then just start writing down like you're above on just becomes almost like an exercise at 1st so you're above on. Kingdom's throne and after about 10 minutes since I put the pen down at the piano and just kind of. Yes Kimi. Look out the window. Created thing I mean you're laughing but it's like it's your stumbling on it like like you're just peripherally likes looking for a light switch in the dark you know just. So you know that's just a couple again that's a lot of them just start with a phrase an idea and they're like a concept and I was like picture a movie Step back for meaning go like see a 3 and a half minute movie like. I get get some word pictures you know instead of just saying Jesus died for my sins it's like. Let's see war like a rose trampled on the ground you took the fall out of me just to end him is there a way to say it in a word picture instead of just being sort of just literal you know. You're listening to radio Cunningham along with. More of our special edition show from the. Conference with Jason groom. Coming right up. I would like. My daughter has been diagnosed with leukemia and kind of girl like my own going to be heard. On. The Bible and I don't or promote slavery. Like maybe someone who walked away from the base and I don't think. Longwave. But I would like to know if. Each of. o 7 point. What about radio let's pick up where we left off our school of worship songwriting session with Matt Redmond enjoy a smile. Was. Going to open up pretty cutie right now we're going to start with our 1st question so my question was How do you approach writing a song do you have any creative practices like morning writing or like forced writing sessions like you talk at the boxing match that's great question I 5 kids just trying to find some space and tell me you know. Yet there's moments where I don't feel I can I think like yeah the step down to and do it this other times were desperate to find some time I can't quite find that moment you move but one thing I realized was super help me was where actually songwriters if you kind of feel called to this and other people have been affirming that call on you. It can't just be your mom by the way has to be more people. That doesn't count if all the people i Phone on you then you go take it serious and one thing that means is you're a songwriter 247 and so you kind of and 10 I upright and so are the whole time I mean I honestly we've been contending for a song and I woke up at 5 this morning because my brain was thinking about it. Could get back to sleep because I couldn't turn it off and I was late and. There's something about you know you're reading the news and there's something jumps out in the it could be a song in there you're hearing a sermon you think hasa this with a song about this you're in a conversation slow phrase jump start your inscription there is just this one word and you like this song and that would you know that your antenna up now may not get every day or some even every week to sit down with my guitar and start trying to form things and that flow occur but the whole time I'm storing up ideas for me mainly words honestly a lot of people is mainly melody some people are totally 5050 both but you storing up all this stuff so then the cool thing is want to get to sit down on my own oh some are generous then I've got something to say of course and to get the teeth into I've got a starter for a song I've Got a theme which is living in my heart. You know and. Yeah you say I think is a great question because it's I think the word intention. Just being intentional is really key as creative people and as writers. To make sure that our hearts are open and that's sometimes requires a lot some days you might be really not inspired and you feel like I have nothing to say. And you can actually write back to you know God I've nothing to say and that's matters too so I think it's being intentional about staying distinct open is something that I'm trying to put into practice and even if that is if I'm in it sometimes I have nothing to say and then I'll just write an instrumental and on the piano and if we missing you know when it carries us well sometimes you might not have the worst but you because you have to be in music and that is as important you know when David played before the Lord and when he was on his fields and he was just playing for the Lord and then got to come into the castle and you got to play for saw and he was able to play and his is isn't a word that has excited his demons they had to flee that he could lift all of them because of David's playing and it was just his playing in sync so even you're playing something you might have nothing to say that just being intentional letting it flow. And whatever season you're in I think is the key I heard someone say once imagination is like a muscle in the more you use it more you flex it stronger it grows as different something in that as well and that even this much the I didn't get a song nothing's wasted in this devotional aspect to the time you had but also just as a creativity side you were flexing their magination muscle you were growing stronger . Next question. How long a man in still on from China. Because he like the heart worship came out 998. That makes me sound very old I was I was 5 years old when our right about. Like have you have it our think like tend to the lyrics as you grow in class as a worship leader that's a great question. There's something wrong with that. You know it is amazing how many times people do write an email and say Can I change the lyrics to your song and you're like well can I come and dress your baby then you know. Can you change the lyrics was a. Father. Yeah that's a great question you know I mean the thing how funny that song for me is actually example saying I haven't really led for years and then a couple of times recent of let it get it feels real to me and it's reminding me take me back somewhere that's important to me and. So maybe not but I do have songs so I think off wish I hadn't written that or. Just a little bit different that's not really as honoring as a want it to be or you know there are things to be honest one reason have to be. In a team so that you don't put stuff out there that hasn't been checked while the people to. This great question like I wonder how I would write that differently today I mean to be honest I'm writing a couple songs right now which have a similar. Hard to them in terms of just trying to lie all man things again so complicated as a lot of production in worship Now there's always bright lights and big stages and you know there's nothing wrong with that a tool can be a wonderful way for expressing the joy that we need to enter and leading us in a culturally relevant way to in worship and that's so super helpful if it's kept in context right but you know what about this culture we're living in where everything's magnified to look bigger than it is and everything's magnified just to look a little bit better than A's on Instagram right and you know. Does that creep into of worship so that creep into worship leading does that you know cirrhotic cover songs as well as have a same hall of like Lord don't let us follow this great stuff that's happening don't let it. Ever obscure a great view of you and a great view of what worship should be and those things are questions. Grandma name is live on what Bible translations do you guys use for songwriting and which are your favorites. Great question i'll i think bob translations are sometimes a song or a best friend sometimes you try to find different ways to say things you try to find a fresh way around the age old theme right universal theme in a unique way and Euro and then sometimes you get those Bible translations like the parallel bottle if you seen that it's not like a bible from another universe it's like a Bible with like you know the n.i.v. And I thought I was a sandwich preparing us about translation and and you go all these things and they kind of helpful. You know with John like he must increase almost decrease he must become greater I must become less one version says he must become greater and greater I must become less and less of things like him before. An Old King James he lost wax enormous weight is still going to move out of the moonrise crazy and you find a lot different ways into saying the same things I read the n.i.v. The most. I. Like reading alongside it a bit of the New Living Translation delve into the message now and again I thought and the songs some of the songs the message just supremely inspiring and then all the bits to start some poetic enough to me so that I'm going to figure it out of as a songwriter I mean you I thought it was Swedish I think a good example is we've got a song called benediction and there was almost 10000 reasons I. Will not be shaken you graceful. And we actually end up using a few different translations we wanted to write a song that was of the blessing. Something that was could be used in a service but it could also be used singing it over your children and what we end up doing we took. I think we used to an i.v. And then we used the you can James versions of God smiling I mean his face shining so we ended up actually using a few different translations in the same song and I thought that was a really lovely I love the way of doing it because we've got to broaden our language and we've got to take the scripture that a lot of people have heard and we've got to bring in a different translation into the same song so that's also can be a helpful tool in your toolbox and you can actually take the same scripture but from different nations so. I'm Grace My question is what is the one thing you would tell your younger self that you wish you'd known as a worship leader great question Grace because I think life is full of trial and error and I think we have to realize that it is a journey. I became I became was a pastor really young actually so I had a lot of work in the States I was 21 when I became worship leader of hills in London and I was like the passages through man in the deep and it was John as you can look up to the team now it was like what I'm going to come to this. And and it was an amazing season but it was really hard and I think. I would probably have told myself because I tried to be everything for everybody. I just wanted to make everybody proud I want to make God proud I wanted to make my pastor proud I want to make my parents proud my team proud of I mean we had 300 I was passing 300 people. And it's a lot of people it's like a Swedish church. Besides us we just church and I was just and it's a big one it's a big church just reading this through. So I think I think I would just say. Be fearless to not have fear of of Man by fear of God and not be a man plays a puppet God pleaser and because we can't be everything to everybody like I remember we had Mondays off and I would like I was still be in the office at like 8 am sending e-mails and I was like I got to keep going because it's too much to have to. And I think now I can join us take a sleeping relax God is in control all is well. So that's would be my advice myself I try to live but it's now and still you know it's a journey. All right. How do you practically fight against the potential pride that comes with being an influential worship leader. That's a great question. I think you've got to be ruthless with your hall and honest you know there's a lot of pride in a way in a way insecurity can even be very similar to pry into your eyes or yourself a lot more than maybe might be helpful and is a different form of vanity in the way you know I'm not judging anyone who has that we were having secure thoughts but. You know when they go the boastful side and the thinking you're a bit better than you are and. I mean sometimes it's just a physical thing if I've got to be parsing row exciting I try and find a little moment or a momma self who I am who I'm not who go to his who was about you know just even the physical posture of actually funny Old Spice get down on your knees put your head face to the floor and just. Telling God Ok I'm making myself small right now through mama self that you are great and on you know as much as I love partnering in this with you it's not about me and. Team is a really important thing you know when I travel was have team around me and that's so great you know you can get wave pretense around team you can get away with. You know a motto man is my brother and he he's about he's 10 years younger than me and he's a foot taller than me so already there is a humiliation bill in the you know. And i've never be in anything in my life literally I mean since about the age of 8 he's be in the x. Box penalty shoot outs on wrestles you know so it's kind of cool traveling with him and. I've got 5 kids they also have a way of bringing you down to ground. My daughter has a very cheeky sense of humor you know I'll be right in some song with so excited about she's live that no one I have at the age of under the age of 4 is going to be tall interesting in that. She's like oh it's good. But I think the thing is you go be ruthless and here's the thing most forms of scene in your life they'll start small and grow big so if you don't manage them put them back in place be ruthless give ya a sweep then they're going to grow old with us no will affect something so whether that be you know pride issue a lost issue a coveting issue wherever that issue is if you don't keep it under control you know you go be ruthless I'm a daily basis I think it's Ok with my saying just relationships. Because it's such a such a sneaky thing a bike and pride doesn't always have to look like the big outward thing it can also be about her small internal thing like that but I think relationships and relationships I think religion creates pride I think even like being a martyr being looked at up to the Forgot of the kingdom that can also be pride and if I was his obedience is better than sacrifice and to be obedient to the Holy Spirit and having a relationship with him like that I think that it keeps us in check because he actually is our health or the Holy Spirit is a counselor so he will if we keep our hearts soften for him he will come to us because he disciplines the ones you love and this is a funny story just a few months ago how I was praying and it was a really sweet prayer to pray for the nation's one morning and like God's pray for the nations that I'd like said the songs to the world and I'm like God the nations and I mean when invading my house. And I felt the Lord say Jonas you've got the nations in your house you've got these Jews from all of Latin America is working why are you praying for the nations starts start loving on those guys and I was like oh yeah good point I know my God how can I reach them and what the Lord said was serve them serve them. And I was like Ok and I thought I don't how can I serve them you know they barely speak English and about the dinner party oh yeah so I ended up actually would end up doing was I end up inviting them all and their wives for a dinner party. Of my house and they were shocked 1st of foremost like why are we being invited and I said I just want to say thank you to you guys someone on you for helping me renovate my house and literally what happened was when I was afraid I was I mean these guys are the coolest they've been so faithful and when I fried a walked into the door of my house he broke down crying weeping in my arms actually and and he says this is the 1st time I've ever been invited to someone's house in 15 years in America. And it was just such a moment where I realized that this is church is well this is you know this is a moment where you I got to just set the table I just certain food and we just had a beautiful night of just hanging out and. And I think those little moments those Holy Spirit moments like that was God wanting to actually I could send a ping so classifier bye bye them and their families and they're there becomes dear friends actually they couple days later they had all worked up at the house and they surprised me that a huge gift basket from go to mall and would go to all the food that my girl's grandmother had made and it was just that one of the guys that surprised me Bill to get out of bed I mean it was it was amazing friendship of kindness and so I think that relationship you have no idea what the Holy Spirit whisper something but be obedient dare to try to act it out. Last question Hi I'm Amber while singing and worshipping Do you ever have the battle of doubts going through your mind and what do you do about this great question yeah. I think we will have at times where whether on the stage or off a stage where we you know we go facing some doubt we were looking at scriptures day were you know this guy says Lord I believe help my unbelief we want to powerful things like Lord I believe I'm making the statement I buy I still got these moments with his comic book you know crazy and I think that in those moments whether it be some struggle stress in your life whether it be anxiety whether it be you know some kind of outward pressure or whether it be a moment like on and quite get this thing lowered and he's taken you to a place where faith isn't strong Those are the moments for choice those are the moments where worship you know because we're obviously not about our feelings. Involves feelings but it starts a place of decision as thoughts a place of choice a place of intention a place of. Putting a stake in the ground saying I don't get lost today I don't get why this thing happened I don't get why I'm going through this it's gone the season's gone away too long and why I think I could imagine it was going to go on but right now put a stake in the ground of saying God I believe you. I you know ice not a vacant belief it's a belief based on me looking back through Scripture and seeing how Tom-Tom again you rescued even at the last moment time how you restored repayed replenished in rejuvenating situations which seem like they were totally over you know oh times where you made a plan for your people. In such a beautiful powerful poignant way that so my faith my life looking back and seeing your faithfulness on every page seeing that even in the times where I thought you would distant or absent actually way more close and involved than I ever knew and even made me fruit for the land of my suffering you brought something good out that now and so when you stand in those times of of. You know. Indecisive the soul down or fear or anxiety or was struggle with some kind of pressure stress that you're facing those are the times that you are more than anything else what kind of. You know in some seasons of the year every tree's green right but it comes to winter you get to find out which trees evergreen and it's the same thing with worship as that is in those seasons of winter the dark night of the soul that's when you figure out what kind of worship you really are anyone can really find their place to the way of the way to the place of praise when everything's going swimmingly and lawsuit joy and laughter and fun what about those moments when nothing makes sense what about those moments where you try to figure out when you're trying to hang in there what kind of worship are you in those moments you know and I think I think that defines us more than anything else right that's a great question thank you. You have the school worship with you and. Man what a great time period their heart insight into songwriting how they approached that gift and craft such a good time you know all the feedback that we got from every student. There was just they were so extremely blessed Yeah so if you are you know somebody who would be interested in taking 9 months out of their life to just grow and some of the things that you might have just heard in this broadcast then we would invite you to check out the school of worship at school of worship dot net and if you want to catch their actual video content from that session you can actually watch it at Tara chapel dot com You just search for Mt Redmond you have find out that session there in video form out but I thank you so much for joining us today here on for worship radio we hope that you are encouraged by our time spent together may God continue to bless you keep you as you live your life and worship responding for the grace of God. This is a way of one of the 7.9 your home for worship and the word Michael David here we've got music for you business now are from rivers and robots the eagle and child and Tim Hughes. 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