Orgy rolls on i Tunes radio and on the tune in on the Next Radio Lab what is a year of life worth. It to us the $10000000.00 for a year are going to pay a $1000.00 for an extra day of life or that's a complicated question what about $100000.00 for a life life is worth it whatever it takes but whatever it takes will not cure my cancer were that's in the next radio. Stay right here with yesterday Public Radio for Radio Lab they gets underway at 11 o'clock right now though we're coming up on 10 o'clock and the Ted Radio Hour this . Is the Ted Radio Hour. Each week groundbreaking Ted talks. Ted Technology Entertainment Design design is that really what stem from so you can never know delivered at Ted conferences around the world just of the human imagination we've had to believe in impossible things this true nature of reality that is. Just beyond those talks those ideas that dad did for radio. From n.p.r. . I'm Guy Raz coming up who gets to be angry there is a sweet spot for anger anger is a wonderful sign and terrible strategy anger can alert us to injustice and then energize those to respond to that injustice I don't mean hostility resentment hatred I think about passion this episode rethinking anger 1st this news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington. The trumpet ministration says u.s. Troops leaving Northern Syria will be redeployed to western Iraq N.P.R.'s reports defense secretary says the American forces will be carrying out an anti ISIS mission contrary to the president's earlier statements President Trump has repeatedly said that one of the reasons u.s. Troops are being pulled out of northern Syria abruptly was to bring the soldiers back home but speaking to reporters defense secretary Mark esper says the plan now is to redeploy the 1000 troops leaving Syria to western Iraq he says they will have a dual purpose one is to help defend Iraq and 2 is to perform a counter ISIS mission as we sort through the next steps and again that's the current game plan things could change between now whatever we complete withdrawal despite the u.s. And Turkey saying a ceasefire was in effect bombing along the Syrian border has not ended and reports of civilian casualties keep mounting Bobby Allen n.p.r. News at Fort Stewart Army Airfield in Georgia 3 soldiers have died 3 others are hospitalized after the Bradley fighting vehicle they were riding in was involved in a training accident this morning officials say an investigation is under way. British Prime Minister Barres Johnson says he's confident the u.k. Will leave the European Union on October 31st despite a letter he was forced to send to the e.u. Last night requesting a Vicki Barker reports from London when British members of parliament yesterday delayed voting on Boris Johnson's new withdrawal plan until they could approve the details a triggered the so-called Ban Act measure drafted by mistrustful M.P.'s requiring Johnson to request yet another Bragg's extension by midnight Central European Time last night and he did send that letter on signed and a cup. By a 2nd signed letter spelling out why he thinks a further extension is a bad idea Johnson is putting his breaks a deal to another vote tomorrow also tomorrow a Scottish court may rule on whether Johnson broke British law in the way he handled the Ban Act for n.p.r. News I'm Vicki Barker in London Hong Kong police and pro-democracy activists clashed today exchanging tear gas and fire bombs as N.P.R.'s Emily facing reports tens of thousands marched today despite a police ban on the demonstrations that are now in their 20th consecutive week chanting resist demonstrators turned out for a peaceful March to ending universal suffrage and an inquiry into police brutality among other things the turnout comes even after executive Kerry lamb proposed affordable housing this week an effort to quell the protests that have the city for almost 5 months. In Hong Kong this is. In Major League Baseball the Houston Astros are going to the World Series beating the New York Yankees last night in clinching the American League Championship 4 games to 2 N.P.R.'s Tom Goldman reports once again October baseball proved irresistible for much of the game the Yankees frustrated their fans by getting runners on base and then not taking advantage and scoring runs but in the 9th inning 1st baseman d.j. Le Mayhew hit a home run to tie the score at 4 all in the bottom of the 9th an even bigger blast 5 foot 6 inch Jose l today's towering game winner off fearsome 6 foot 4 pitcher oldest Chapman interviewed on Fox moments later deferred we wondered you know because a home but because of a team effort he said that featured some dazzling defensive plays the asters advance to their 2nd World Series in the last 3 years they'll play an equally hot team the Washington Nationals beginning next Tuesday Tom Goldman n.p.r. News in Southern California fire crews are preparing for the arrival of hot dry and gusty Santa Ana winds they're expected to arrive later today the San Diego Fire Department is increasing staffing bringing in extra firefighters and trucks as well as additional aircraft and bulldozers Southern California Edison says it's considering another power shutdown to tens of thousands of customers in case power lines are blown down I'm Barbara Klein n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the Walton Family Foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Walton Family Foundation dot org And the John d. And Catherine t. MacArthur Foundation Ed Mack founded dot org. It's that Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz So think about the last thing that made you angry I'm driving along and there's a really slow driver in front of you and it's stopped by a train that's a common thing here for me and you're just sitting there wasting time the kids are yelling in the back and you realize it's going to set back my whole day. Your heart rate increases your souls get tense and your mind starts to race going to be late to this meeting which means that I'm going to be late to this meeting and that's going to be embarrassing because I'm eating as someone important right and pretty soon you're fuming you're yelling at your kids you're yelling at the train and so all of a sudden have taken this from what feels like a relatively small thing and I've exaggerated its importance into a really really big bad thing this is psychologist Ryan Martin and Ryan studies why and how people get angry anger is associated with that of consequences everything from physical aggression physical fights verbal fights property damage cardiovascular disorders other negative emotions substance abuse problems I mean when people have experience anger too often in great intensity they are likely to experience some sort of interpersonal or physiological problems however despite all of that I think a lot of people misunderstand anger it's this built in emotion much like sadness much like fear much like a lot of other emotions. It's something that is universal. And picks up the idea from the Ted stage is something we all feel and it's something they can relate to we've been feeling in since the 1st few months of life when we didn't get what we wanted and our cries and protests things like What do you mean that you won't pick up the rattle dad I wanted. Refuelled throughout our teenage years as my mom can certainly attest to was me sorry. We feel it to the very end in fact anger has been with us some of the worst moments of our lives it's a natural an expected part of our grief but it's also been with us some of the best moments of our lives with the special occasions like weddings and vacations often marred by these everyday frustrations at weather travel delays that feel horrible in the moment but then are ultimately forgotten when things go Ok. So I have a lot of conversations with people about their anger and as through those conversations that I've learned that many people I bet many people in this room right now you see anger as a problem you see the way it interferes in your life the way it damages relationships maybe in the ways it's scary and while I get all of that I see anger a little differently and today I want to tell you something really important of all your anger and it's this anger is a powerful and healthy force in your life it's good that you feel it you need to feel it. So anger is an emotion it's a feeling everything from maybe the mild frustration you feel when you can't find your car keys to the intense rage you feel when someone treats you really really horribly it's really separate from many of the behaviors that people oftentimes associate with anger violence and aggression those things come along with anger sometimes but people can do all sorts of things when they're angry we also know that it's a motivator and that it encourages people to act in positive pro-social ways anger can fuel whether it's political movements or other sorts of problem solving it really exists in us to alert us to injustice and then to energize us to respond to that in justice. League. Anger is universal but it's also a complicated emotion we tend to think of anger as an irrational response and we think of people who get angry as unhinged and when it's uncontrollable anger can be really destructive The thing is we also need anger tells us when something feels wrong or unjust or unfair. So today on the show we're going to explore different sides of anger what it is when that happens who is allowed to feel it and why and for Ryan Martin the for. 1st step towards reframing anger was to think of it as something essential I think if you think of emotions as I do they exist in us to learn us to things so my sadness which also feels bad in the moment it alerts me to loss my fear which feels bad in the moment alerts me to danger my anger alerts me to injustice and so really the purpose it serves is to tell me to focus on something and says Ok your angry right now that must mean something are understand that. But in your talk you say that many people in the room listening right at that moment see anger as a problem right and to them I would say yes I totally agree I see it as a problem in others and myself like anger to me does all of these things it interferes with my life and makes things more complicated and it causes so much stress so I'm a day to day basis why do we need it so if you think about kind of the real real basic reasons why we get angry one of the most basic reasons is when our goals are blocked and we actually can study this in animals we can study it in infants I mean when you take an object that an infant or toddler wants and you put it just out of their reach or behind glass or something like that you will see them get visibly frustrated you'll see them start to cry you'll see them pound on the glass or make a fist and things like that and that extends into adulthood one of the reasons why it driving can be such an angering situation is because we have a goal and all of those things they interfere with our of obtaining that goal no achieving goals is pretty important to human beings it's pretty important to all species and so anger is one of the mechanisms that allows human beings to kind of motivate us to plow through those frustrations to get breakthrough. And to obtain our goal. Now whether it's minor or major weather is general or specific we can tease out some common themes or we get angry in situations that are unpleasant and feel unfair where our goals are blocked that could have been avoided and that leave us feeling powerless This is a recipe for anger but you can also tell that anger is probably not the only thing we're feeling in these situations and anger doesn't happen in a vacuum we can feel angry at the same time that we're scared or sad or feeling a host of other emotions but here's the thing these provocations they aren't making us mad at least not on their own and we know that because if they were we'd all get angry over the same things and we don't know the reasons I get angry are different than the reasons you get angry so there's got to be something else going on what is that something else when we know what we're doing and feeling at the moment of that provocation matters we call this the praying or state are you hungry are you tired are you anxious about something else are you running late for something when you're feeling those things those provocations feel that much worse but what matters most to provocation something state it's this it's how we interpret that provocation how we make sense of it in our lives. When you start to recognize your body responding to something in a way that most people will respond at what do you do do you are you do you become aware of it do you stop do you breathe do you think how do you respond. I think this is where I oftentimes encourage from people this sort of search for insight so when you notice that's happening to you 1st thing I encourage people to do is think about why it's happening and often times people will extra wise that they'll put it on the thing and say Ward this is making me mad and that's good that's a good start but the next part of it is Ok home I interpret in that thing that might be exacerbating that and that's where you can identify the things like catastrophizing Or maybe I'm being too demanding or maybe I've labeled that person in a way that's unfair and so once you've kind of established that piece I think then is the intentional goal of like deciding what you want to do with it that might be Ok now is not a good time for me to lose it so I need to take deep breaths I need to think about something else. Or you might say well you know what am I catastrophizing if I am then I need to catch myself here and think about what is the realistic outcome is this train going to make me 5 minutes later is it going to ruin my whole day is there a way I can fix this and so then you might channel that anger into solving that problem. So Ok So Ryan as an adult I can regulate my behavior right and I don't like I don't generally show anger to to friends or to colleagues but you know I can get angry and I hate that I can get injury or frustrated with my kids you know I and I feel so jealous of people who don't get angry easily Yeah I mean the good news is I don't know that there's too many of those people out there who don't get angry easily I guess what I would say is there's a limited capacity for human change as they go on and so for people like you or I We might just be sort of stuck with the amount of anger we feel throughout the day and then it really becomes a question of how we deal with it are we dealing. With it in the healthiest of ways are we experiencing consequences because of it if we're not to then you know honestly it might be Ok because the problem is at some level for me for example to feel angry less would mean on some level that I stop caring about some things that are really really important to me that I don't want to let go of for sure and sometimes we have to acknowledge that Ok this is a thing I can't fix and I need to somehow find a way to go on and accept this except answer is one of the most I think complicated psychological process is when it comes to anger because sometimes it works and it's associated with some positive outcomes sometimes the acceptance ends up being more like suppression Ryan it's really just someone pretending this thing doesn't bother them anymore and that's not really a healthy way to go I mean I'm curious about anger as a motivator for social change right because it can be I mean it can motivate people to do really destructive things and to do really construct of things so I guess I'm a little reluctant to say like yes anger look can spur people to you know change the world for the better but right it can also spur people to to go to war and to truly bad things right absolutely and yeah it encourages people to go to war it also encourages people to pass policies that you know maybe I don't support and things that down so I don't know that the outcomes are always inherently good but it definitely motivates people to care about big political issues and to embrace policy changes and to go after policy changes in large I would discourage people from wanting to live without anger because I think on some level it means that they don't care enough about a lot of things going on in their lives and a lot of people in their lives and that to really be passionate about things to be bashing about goals to be a passion about the community we live in means that you're going to experience frustrate. When things don't work out the way you hope they do and that's kind of a good thing. That's Ryan Martin he's a psychology professor at the University of Wisconsin Green Bay You can see his full talk at ted dot com on the show today ideas about rethinking anger Stay with us I'm Guy Raz And you're listening to the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. Local support for Sunday morning programming on public radio as provided by County Economic Development Alliance presenting their 13th annual economic summit that's coming up Wednesday at the sky you can see no events entertaining nasho topics include infrastructure small business development workforce challenges and more tickets and details are available at l.p.c. Dot com and by phone at 970-259-7800 support for the Ted Radio Hour comes from Motley Fool providing a variety of solutions for individuals investment portfolios and personal finances Motley Fool is a resource for investors when buying stocks find out more at Fool dot com and from Viking dedicated to bringing the traveler closer to the destination Vikings new custom built ocean fleet offers a small ship experience with all veranda state rooms and shore excursions in every port Viking cruises dot com. It's the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz And on the show today ideas about anger what it means why we have it and where it comes from but there's one important question here who actually gets to be angry who gets to be angry with power who gets to be angry with recognition who gets to be angry with accolades. I mean look at our last election right Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump could be. They could tap into populist anger and they could. Read in the face and pounding podiums that immense advantage in the political world for women to do that is fundamentally. Uncomfortable for people. And the director of the Women's Media Center speech project so a woman like Hillary Clinton who tried to remain unruffled and calm and didn't show that kind of intense anger was then inauthentic and unlikable and you know it's just this very narrow path of expression so where we are as women told that we have all of this emotionality and then that emotionality is weaponized against us if we seek power or have ambition or exercise authority which Soraya says starts happening at a really early age for her it was in elementary school I remember one year the thing I heard the most from adults was lower your voice like you're just too loud in general and then the next year which I think was maybe physics one the school prize for courtesy. And in retrospect it really does make me laugh because I think here I am I'm being told you're too loud or too boisterous or making too much noise or getting too much attention and I was like Well apparently this is bad it wasn't really until I was in. My forty's kind of came to and thought what is going on here because the way I'm feeling is not x. It's not y. It's not healthy for sure so what is it and it took me a long time to say oh you know what that is I forgot with that was I remembered as a very young child but it's really anger and in my experience a lot of us are taught to do what I did which is to set it. Up or idea from the stage. Think about my mother for a minute when I was 15 I came home from school one day and she was standing on a long veranda outside of our kitchen holding a giant stack of plates. Imagine how dumbfounded I was when she started to throw them like Frisbee is. Into the hot humid air. When every single plate had shattered into thousands of pieces on the hill below she walked back in and she said to me cheerfully how is your day. Now you can see you can see how a child would look at an incident like this and think that anger is silent and isolating destructive and even a frightening. Is special even though when the person who's angry is a girl or a woman the question is why. You know my my mom was not a person who could express anger at all because she thought that defied her sense of being a good person and a lady and I've heard this from other people over and over and over again that it's so incompatible the feeling of anger with the sense of femininity so in girls even when they show anger people have a tendency to say they're sad and sadness and anger are very different as attributes as behaviors interesting because anger is a human emotion we all it's like we're all born we all die we all most of us have the ability to experience sadness and happiness and anger. Is a universal human emotion essentially what you're saying is that it's also a privilege it's yes it's an emotion that is a privilege it's an entitle meant. You know and we do all have this emotion and it's a very important one it's a signal emotion right I mean as humans if we didn't have anger what would we do in the face of threat or indignity injustice you know anger is the emotional response to those circumstances and we're asking if we're asking entire swath. Of people to pretend they don't have anger or to not show anger yeah I mean we just heard from Ryan Martin about how angers or to alert us to things right how you know it's really important to feel it and to find healthy ways to express it but actually it's not that simple right like that privilege doesn't apply to most people. I don't think it applies to most people and I think this idea of anger is a moment in time that is more likely to be rage filled is really unhelpful to most people because in fact anger for a lot of people is this simmering quality that they don't name and it becomes manifest in their bodies. So it will come as absolutely no surprise probably to the people in this room that women report being angry or in more sustained ways and with more intensity than men do. But we also have to find socially palatable ways to express the intensity of emotion that we have so we do several things. Minimizing language we're frustrated No really it's Ok. We self objectify and lose the ability to even recognize the physiological changes that indicate anger mainly though we get sick anger has now been implicated in a whole array of illnesses that are casually dismissed as women's illnesses higher rates of chronic pain auto immune disorders disordered eating mental distress anxiety self harm depression anger affects our immune systems our cardiovascular systems some studies even indicate that it affects mortality rates particularly in black women with cancer. I am sick and tired of the women I know being sick and tired. Our anger brings great discomfort but we have an enormous power in this because feelings are the purview of our authority. And people are uncomfortable with our anger we should be making people comfortable with the discomfort they feel when women say no unapologetically. We can take emotion and think in terms of competence and not gender. Battle we even start to change that dynamic. So it requires really requires a social commitment to societal commitment to rethinking the way we socialize our children starting at the earliest ages right because we have a society that is remarkably gendered our labor is gendered our language is gender and our expectations of people's roles and responsibilities are gendered they're also racialized But even within demographic groups different ethnic groups we still see the imposition of patriarchal gender norms and we still expect boys to be boys and girls to be girls and these differentials really matter they begin so early and so I would say yes we need to start as early as possible it's thinking through what all of that means. I mean we're in this kind of moment right where there is actually an opportunity for for women leaders to express anger and for that not to be judged maybe in a way that it was in previous years rightly anger is just the rational response right so I mean it could be a force that could bring about much needed change right well I mean I think that's undeniable that resistance to. To the trumpet ministration has been led by angry women I think that you know whether you're talking about the science strike or teachers' strikes or you know the various marches that have been held some the most populated in history are some some recordings are you know you see the power of anger and you see the power of peaceful anger you know it never ceases to amaze me I just had to do this again for a presentation if you google anger or angry the 1st images you get are of white men yelling or breaking things if you google anger management which is a whole other topic of conversation you also get pictures of white men breaking things and you know 1st of all most of us are not white men breaking things we don't experience anger that way and in order for us to understand the power of anger as a social force we need to recognize all of the ways it manifests itself not just this one narrow cast image of this kind of person. Because that's unhelpful to all of us. She's the writer of the book rage becomes her power of women's anger you can see her talk at ted dot com. 2 So when you think about the whole concept of anger do you think of it as as an inherently negative thing not at all for me when I think of anger I don't mean hostility resentment hatred for me when I think of anger I think about passion this is Lisa Fritsch something has disturbed you something has triggered within you a consciousness that there is imbalance here there's unfairness here something's not right here something should be done about this that's what I generally mean by anger Lisa is a former talk radio host and as an African-American woman she's no stranger to people labeling her as angry I think the word has been confused to mean that I'm bitter I have this festering hatred and hostility a chronic kind of resentment towards someone or something and. Most people are able to express anger without that attachment to it but somehow women and black women in particular we might not even be angry we could just be simply passionate we could have gotten excited we could be concerned and slightly more animated and emotive about something and then people go from that immediately to anger when a lot of times you're not even angry not yet. This actually happened to Lisa back in 2014 when she ran for governor of Texas Here's more from Lisa Fritsch on the Ted stage. It all started when I was running for governor of Texas in one of those War Room sessions for those of you don't know the war room is where the core campaign team comes together weave that all the dirty dish out everything and this particular worm session I was preparing to introduce an immigration policy that I was proposing I knew it was going to be controversial because I was proposing to give dignity and hope to immigrants in Texas and if you might as you may know this is very defiant of the status quo so I was prepared for the pushback and I knew I was coming in also balancing a good blend of logic and humanity it's just as I'm getting ready to talk I did raise my voice because I got excited I started to lean in and I was really intense I use my hands I spoke with fervor because I was passionate I wanted my team to know these words had a mission just as I was cresting to my most important point I get one of my main guys one that I love the most hated nicknamed And he said Lisa Whoa you need to back off you look like the angry black woman and I would tell you the heat hit my throat. Once he hit me with that label the tables completely turned it was no longer about this wonderful game changing policy on immigration but it became about how I could under no circumstances in any shape or form be seen on the campaign trail as the angry black woman but I'm going to be honest with you I got a little angry for not being able to show the passion I intended to show more than that not to discuss this immigration policy and that last me tight lipped and frustrated in thinking why why does it always have to be anger. At you do you think these anger Stereotypes Affect. African American women think about themselves and their place in the world I think they're very effective unfortunately a lot of time they keeping us silent keeping us from going for things and keeping us out of places where. Frankly we should be it's a way to affect and there are so many more of us out there but we haven't had the access and an opportunity to be there and to show up and be seen there are so many more women like me who have had something to give and bring to the table that so many. People our community are missing out on in finance and technology and political leadership community leadership because they might not look sound or act the way that the status quo acts they are not perceived as having value to add and that's what's wrong with that. Our world is missing out on the wealth of knowledge and experience of black women I always find it interesting how we marvel and raise a successful black men who attribute a lot of their success to being raised by a single black woman and we do this without considering all of the leadership management and skills in diplomacy this woman must have had to do this on her own and to do without considering all of the things that must have indeed made her angry but angry enough to do better for herself and her family and that's the truth about anger and the angry black woman that we need to accept and think about let me tell you who the angry black woman really is she's awesome she's awesome because she's likely had to uphill climb her whole life to get to where she is today she's dedicated she takes up causes that many of us don't realize and and forms us what can matter and what's important in the world she's real I want the freedom to be the angry black woman because I look at where we would be without all the angry black women who have come before us who put progress over posture. The Angry Black Woman is an essential voice to us as we speak up and out to break down barriers and push humanity forward. When I am tempted to. Back down speak more softly or grandparents just move along I think about what they've done I think about how they saw a situation that made them angry and they took a stand that we're all grateful for the day so when I think about that I don't back down but I give myself I say sister No you don't have time for that you have to rise. And I rise. How do you think the world and our society in our country would be different if women especially women of color were able to freely and openly express their anger and passion without fear of being. Criticized or worse. Well I think there'd be a lot fewer things to be angry about 1st of all I think when people have the freedom to express what they need what they're missing to share their painful experiences without being judged that it was their fault and to we can get to a point where we hear another person share something painful without thinking that they're a whiner and all of that or ask for help without attaching some type of what are you trying to take from me to it we won't get past that So yes the world will be a much better place when women can fight for things fight for equality without being seen as aggressive when we can start saying wow look at that leadership quality that she has she's a really hard worker she's really strong I didn't see it that way before let me think about it that's the work we have to do before a lot of this effective change can happen. That's Lisa Fritsch you can find her full talk at Ted npr dot org on the show today ideas about rethinking anger Stay with us I'm Guy Raz And you're listening to the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. You're listening to the Ted Radio Hour on k.c. T.v. 4 Corners Public Radio with support provided by ghost walked around ago a collection of haunting tales folklore and legends bringing to life the spirits of the past their guided tours Corporal several blocks of historical homes and businesses in Durango and all ages are welcome details and bookings are available online at Ghost Wachter Rango dot com. Support for the Ted Radio Hour comes from Motley Fool providing a variety of solutions for individuals investment portfolios and personal finances Motley Fool is a resource for investors when buying stocks find out more at Fool dot com. And 3 I see 3 where enables organizations to use artificial intelligence at enterprise scale solving previously unsolvable business problems learn more it see 3. It's the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz And on the show today rethinking anger and the way this powerful emotion is sometimes misunderstood. Some of the research is completely counterintuitive who would think that expressing people fired up has a good short term effect. Universities business school and specifically about the that make a good leader. Is actually one of them absolutely research that shows that there is a sweet spot for anchor that. Makes some leaders more effective. Actually lead to better negotiation. Powerful social communication tool for actually moving. From the stage. Pretty good. Been working on for the last month. Got really angry it was also. How the job interview go. So why don't we have these conversations because we view anger is a fundamentally negative emotion but I want to make the case to you today that some of you would actually perform better for a leader who displays more negative emotions including anger and the reason is something psychologists call epistemic motivation which is the inclination to thoroughly understand and experience individuals who have high levels of epistemic motivation tend to focus in on the meaning behind the emotion they might say to themselves when my boss is angry I wonder why oh maybe I'm not performing all that well and then they would seek to modify their performance so next time you're at work and your boss gets angry ask yourself are you focusing in on the emotion or the meaning behind the emotion if it's the latter you may perform better for a boss who gets angry. So it seems like the model today for like a really successful healthy workplace is collaborative is transparent there's respect kindness is a big thing now absolutely but then I hear your talk and then you say that some people actually want to work for angry people and I'm thinking who wants to walk how would they want to do that yeah there are some people that respond better to anger in terms of it internally motivating them than to let's say a cheerful person I remember Bobby Knight the basketball coach at Indiana for years Texas Tech right he was known for just being a really great reapers Yes. Did you see this play I mean if you're not going to try to motivate somebody after that I should even get paid and I don't want to play for the guy No of course not but he successfully recruited really talented athletes who did who somehow said that is the style that works for me that motivates me and that I respond to. Now I'm not advocating that that's a healthy way to be what the upsides of anger really are about is being strategic. Its timing its degree its intensity all those things matter and remember that anger doesn't necessarily need to be directed at an individual you can get an organization fired up by being angry about some external circumstance and so utilizing anger and directing that outward can actually rally people with you. The research shows that folks who occasionally show anger that's justified are actually respected more at work than those who don't show any anger at all because it's tied to this accountability issue right if somebody is really not performing and not behaving and I just at least it's perceived that. I'm letting it go that actually hurts how people view me but you have to calibrate that anger right like we we're in the 21st century even when you show anger like you have to do it with respect calibration is absolutely key right if you're somebody who every day gets irritated and angry with a coworker that's not a good thing because they can't regulate their own emotions but regulating emotions doesn't mean that we're flat it doesn't mean that we don't show any emotion it just means we adjust the emotion to the situation as we make a judgment call that a particular situation almost requires or would benefit from a certain kind of emotional response interesting and so that's why occasionally flashing anger can be considered an emotionally intelligent response so here's the thing Dan the power of anger is like. It's like being under the influence of drugs almost It pushes us to make the worst assumptions about the person or the thing that made us angry Absolutely and there's all kinds of tools that we can actually use to check assumptions like what like what tools well for instance you know let's just say you were late for a meeting and I am angry about that I might say Guy 2nd time this week you've been late to a meeting I'm assuming you don't care that much about what we're trying to accomplish here. By stating that assumption you give people an opportunity to say that's correct or that's not correct so you would say Hey Dan you know it's the 2nd time you've been late to the meeting this week I'm assuming you want this company to collapse that you are actually trying to undermine us directly and you would say that's just dropping the kid off a daycare. Right and then I would have been wrong on my assumption right. The way you framed it is a little more common than the way it often plays out but absolutely So I mean if we were to kind of reframe we are living in a I think it's fair to say fairly and every moment from a geo political perspective would you agree with that absolutely Yeah Ok there's a lot of anger in the world let's say you have 2 groups of people who are really angry at the other group of people right let's say let's say people who voted for Trump and people who didn't vote for Trump and I think it's fair to say that in both these groups there's a genuine hatred for people in the other group how would you actually take that header and turn it into something constructive. It depends on the people in this particular case the rhetoric is largely what I would put in the category of destructive anger the word liberal now has a connotation like if you're if you're a liberal that somehow makes you you know at least in some sure. Was a really bad person or if you're a a rhino a Republican in Name Only same thing right to those terms now we're using in a very innate characteristics lands something about them right so if we want to change the dynamic it's not that you can't be angry it's just start from more situational based assumptions. You've seen examples of this which is you create situations of dialogue where you can see the other side is not just a set of positions but is human. And who actually shows up in the world with varying degrees of anger across a variety of issues and engage those individuals. Can have a huge positive effect now overall there's huge huge downsides to anger but to universally suggest that anger is all bad all the time is just not consistent with what we know the moral to our story is not to go out and select a bunch of angry emotionally intelligent leaders in order to achieve. Timing intensity motive and approach are keys to the upsides of anger so next time you experience anger either your own or someone else's search for that sweet spot what you find may pleasantly surprise you thanks so much. That's Dan machete He's the dean of San Jose State University's business school you can see his entire talk at Ted npr dot org. On the show today ideas about rethinking anger it's upsides and downsides I like to say that anger is a wonderful sign and terrible strategy most of the time I think anger is really good at helping us identify things that we need to attend to that are troubling to bother us potential threats the problem is that the typical sort of responses that are motivated by anger if I translate directly into behavior then we end up saying or doing things that cause problems in our relationships or in the workplace or whatever contacts we find ourselves in you know this is wrestle Colt's I'm a clinical psychologist and a professor at Eastern Washington University and part of Russell's job is to help other people sort through their anger but it's also something he struggled with a lot you got it wow. And said. So and this is I mean that's a but me this is kind of exciting right because you are able to identify that in yourself because you've studied this phenomenon and you know that you have this it's like it's like you call you know if you're aware I guess see it as it's happening. For us all managing his anger is a daily exercise but it took him a while to even realize it was a problem here's wrestle on the stage. My son was about 3 months old and I was home taking care of him one day and it was a day in which I had a lot of work that I really wanted to get done and so the parents among you will not be surprised to find out that on this particular day my son took about an hour and a half longer than normal to go to sleep for his morning nap and I remember like finally he goes to sleep and I'm gently setting him down in the crib and tiptoeing out of the room and just as I get in the other room I sit down to work. The cry. And with that cry I was filled with anger it took everything in me not to rush across the hall stand over his crib and yell Why can't you just sleep. Luckily that didn't happen. But something else did the intensity of the anger I felt at my infant son for doing nothing more than like you know not sleeping at the exact moment I wanted him to sleep. It shocked me awake and I knew that if I was going to be anything like the sort of father I wanted my son to have that I had to do something about my anger. Well. So there are obviously people who have a more angry or get a bull temperament and there are other people who just don't get doesn't. They don't seem to get so upset or bothered by things that other people might get bothered by and I look at those people and I'm like oh my God how can I have more of you how can I be more like memory nice you know like. What explains that is it just the way they're Bleier What is it well it's a combination of things so probably they came into the world with a system that was not tuned to activate in terms of irritability and anger quite so easily and then probably because they had those genetics from their parents they likely grew up in a home where anger wasn't modeled where good emotion regulation was so you know the moment we're born all that that kind of genetic stuff we have becomes either activated or not by the environments in which we find ourselves and so if you have an irritable temperament and you're raised in a home that tends to be more volatile then that really sets you up then to struggle with irritability and anger going forward. You know it's interesting because. For me as a parent right and as a person who did experience anger and irritability as a child and saw that modeled you you know you I think a lot of parents try to parent in opposition to the way they were parenthood but time and again with my children a really calm I ask them to do something. As them again. I ask them again. Yes And 10 times and then I just lose and I say get your shoes off right away. And then I feel and it works in a war and they respond to and they get scared they put their shoes on and I feel horrible I feel like the worst person on the planet Yeah I mean the way anger activates us you know what our anger is doing is you have to act now you have to there's a felt urgency around it and that urgency tends to overwhelm the part of us that could be reflective and you know those sorts of things we also when we're angry we think more superficially and then we'll tend to kind of incorporate that information and then we will hold on to it and we won't let it go. So so let's let's a lot say that anger or having an angry or irritable temperament is a and a Killie's heel and wife evenings they actually have to kind of double down on managing it. And so. How I mean you you have this you have this gene like you have this and you're a psychologist so. Get help tell what do you do well I think you address it the way you address any potential vulnerability you might have you know you take helpful efforts to try and minimize the impact on your life and I think the 1st thing we have to do is just kind of interrupt the momentum of it. Interrupt the momentum to create some space for whatever comes next so I remember you know it's been a year or 2 but my wife and I had gotten into an argument and I was really angry and I went down I've got a room in my basement is filled with vinyl albums and guitars and I go in there and put on a record and I just sat there for a while kind of calming down and after a few minutes my wife came and knocked on the door and opened up and said Would it be Ok you know if I came in and I said don't take this the wrong way but I'm not ready for you to come in yet and I want you to know that when I close that door I wasn't shutting you out. I was shutting me. Because I know that whatever comes out of me right now is going to be hurtful and I just need a little more time. And so I took another 10 or 20 minutes listened finished the side of my record and then I was able to go out and say Ok you know let's reconnect Let's talk about this whatever. Were Let's try an exercise really quickly if you what I'd like you to bring to mind a situation in which you recently struggled. And as you look back on that struggling version of you in that situation. Try to look back with compassion the way you would relate to someone that you dearly cared about and wanted to help if you could go back and whisper into the ear of that vulnerable version of you and that situation support or encouragement might you offer to help yourself be at your best in that moment you see that's compassion to notice wow I'm really angry right now I'm really struggling this is really our anger tries to convince us that we have to act right now but we don't have to believe it we can take a moment to balance our emotions 1st and then work with a situation that's true strength. That's compassion. I think that's stressful cold He's a clinical psychologist who specializes in compassion focused you can find his full talk at Ted. 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Right now we're coming up on a limb a clock and this morning's broadcast of Radio Lab Stay tuned. You are listening to Radio Lab radio didn't. They. Ready Yes. I'm feeling full of value in that spirit I am Robert Krulwich This is Radio Lab And today 3 very different stories that try to put a dollar value. 1000000 dollars 7 dollars 10000 dollars yeah I would say 5 bags things that seem priceless priceless I really. Started to top so bring on the pressure start the show with a story from our producer Molly Webster.