Computers So when we're Hillary got into that mess there hell they were getting into the Pentagon they got into 12 different government. Departments including the commerce and. High sec Hey I'm I've done the same thing that she did I don't think she was she I think she was she should have she should stay with the government stuff that would that would I would save use the government programs that we've been more secure but just like Colin Powell you know I think their programs are probably better than what the government's got. Right now the programs that sweet talk about 60 minutes and c.b.s. And so on if your state programs run the state of like Arkansas Missouri and so on there they're most barnacle programs that they can get into because they don't they don't have enough security devices to do it to keep people from getting into them so it's just it's not you know the thing of it is what is one important sources we can see that if they wanted to target anybody including me or you or anybody else that you see if you're a big enough target out there. Like why you like by yourself are I keep a low profile I'm not going to be advertising you know I'm not going in talk book or any of those programs on there that that's just food my brother did that kind of stuff and I because you know it's your ego and you want to get it but given that you're information like what your mother's name is you know they can figure out your date of birth by a different types of things you put on or they can hit you anywhere they want to and if they do solve this problem then to know that I'm going to go back to they're going to hold up the mail trucks when they go out there so you know the thing of it is you don't want to be a big target So again. As though I can explain it is it's wild out there now and you have to spend most of time garden yourself your own home and your own security in your own family you know we just dislike a warning and knock off a placement out there own in the parking lot you don't know what's going to happen in your own. Let's laugh you're right well thank you you're right about that you know we were talking earlier about Charlie spoon aren't some of the little quips that he would make in and I said that he's got to keep you laughing and nobody disliked Charlie's boner but I was telling you about this kid that came in from Georgia this big kid by the name of Verne addiction big 68220 pound guy and one Christmas about this time of the year he was going to go home for the holidays and to Savannah and he was going to. Charlie was going to take him up to St Louis to fly out of the airport and. I was quite you know concerned about the kid because I had been responsible for finding him and getting him up to Moberly and I and I offered Charlie I said hey listen I can take him up to the airport because Charlie was going to go the day before his flight was he's flying out the next morning and I said Where is he going to stay he said well he can just sleep in the airport. Well Charlie a I can take him up there the next morning if that's and that's a pretty long trip from Moberly probably an hour and a half up there to the St Louis airport and. I said I I can take him up there I said you know it could be dangerous him sleeping in the airport there and I said Charlie you know you never who know who you're going to run into I said there might even be a pickpocket in there and Charlie looked at me and he said a lot tell you what they pick his pocket and all they're going to find is all it. All they're going to find is lint. But that was a Charlie spoonerism tell you that and he was full of. Let's see I need to take a break I'll be right. As you reflect on the miracle that happened long ago when the little Bethlehem stable made a wonder that Holy Night and the timeless gift of God's love bring a special meaning to your Christmas season was done during the gravid wishes everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's the same. Across the mile the wise men came when that aeration and prayers led by the most marvelous star we need to honor the birth of the Christ child with worshipping gift giving Saints body shop and gravity hopes that all who are listening of themselves in remembrance of the greatest gift of all. Across the miles of the wise men came with adoration and praise led by the most marvelous star we to honor the birth of the Christ child with worship and gift giving Stephen Rose of Steve's plumbing in Roger's hopes that all who are listening will give of themselves in remembrance of the greatest gift of all. As hearts of men alone and the spirit of the season fills us with love Robbie Abbey carpets in Bentonville welcomes the chance to express his thanks to his many friends and customers and to wish them good health and happiness through the coming year May your season be bright from Abbey carpet in Bentonville folks believe it or not the road and sidewalk constructions finished and historic downtown Rogers So now the customers of low vision Arkansas located on the corner want to one west wall of downtown Rogers has easy access to their office optometrist Dr Brett Mills Dr Randy Bell optician Wayne Shayne are there to help you and if you or someone you love is suffering from major vision loss due to macular degeneration diabetes or other odd conditions they can help you so don't just be content to say Well nothing can be done it's better to give it a try the doctors there will work with you to develop a list of tasks that you wish to achieve then depending on your situation they can recognize and recommend. Things like low vision glasses which can magnify images and move images to the peripheral vision they can those images can they can reduce glare with these glasses improve contrast and for an appointment all you need do is call for 7958643575864357 The point I'm making is don't just say it can't be helped give these guys a try it's amazing how many of you will appreciate the fact that they purchased Edwards opticals inventory of Wiley x. Sunglasses and cocoons Lindbergh an alum a cli for. Game so they've got those for sale as well at the location optician Wayne Shane is there even to give your glasses a tune up if they're not fitting properly so for better site and for the professional service you deserve shopping at low vision Arkansas on the corner of want to one west wall in downtown Rogers folks vision is one of our most precious. Trade. To Sell is that we have put it that way it's a it's a gift that so many people take for granted so if you've got serious challenges to your vision give these guys a call and let them see what they can do it's worth a try one o one west wall of downtown Rogers open Monday through Thursday 8 to 5 Fridays for me to 3 and here's the number to call for an appointment 479-586-4357 extension 4357 go to the watch line this time this is party line Good morning. Good morning Carmen how are you going well or good. Wanted to respond you had a caller yesterday I even called you about it offline when the party line was done but I wanted to respond about the person that was calling about who was the individual that used to do the fishing report from Lake Elmdale and I have some pretty good news for you Kermit the old saying goes the the report of my demise is greatly exaggerated. He is alive and well I will write to him yesterday he went by Lucky key was his. Was the code name used when he would call in to the radio station his actual name is David Key and like I say I had a nice long conversation with them he quit doing a show where he would call into Kermit about 2 or 3 years ago. I don't know if he had health reasons for that or not but he's doing well and I had a nice conversation with him and just want to relate to your your calling audience that he has not passed on. The other thing I want to do is I wanted to talk to Remy if I could because I have to admit that when he is right about a few things he is absolutely right and as you know he has been a critic of the Afghanistan war for a long time and what I'm about to read to you I wish you would have been watching Tucker Carlson I know he's not a fan of Fox News but Tucker Carlson did an excellent report on the Afghanistan war and the shortcomings and and quite frankly some of the things that our senior officials and military generals have been telling us is in fact not been the case and I just want to read something here real quick to you. About that and it was talking about general. That said we didn't have the foggiest notion of what we were doing in Afghanistan and that's quite a an admission after 18 years and over trillion dollars spent not not the least of which is the loss of all of our servicemen that have died in that war but Specifically here's what they were saying. We were devoid of the retired 3 star general he said we were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan. We didn't know what we were doing said Douglas Lute. A retired 3 star Army general and the went on to say what were you trying to do we did not have the foggiest idea of the undertaking that we were about to get involved in and I have to tell you Kermit you know I'm about as strong as anybody on the military but to come to that kind of conclusion after 18 years over trillion dollars spent and you know losing so many of our servicemen That's a heck of an admission and maybe it is time that we take the steam stance that the Russians did after they were there for about 10 years they finally understood this is not a one of a war for us it's costing us a fortune and we need to get out and they did get out what ever made us think that we could have a better outcome than they did it is a subject for much discussion but reading reading this documentary on what happened with the Afghanistan war and so many of our officials kept telling us that the war is progressing and we're making progress when in fact we were not so. When you're right you're right and I just want to pass that on to You All right well this operation that and I'm sure will. His. Couple of buttons will pop off his chest there. After hearing that. You've got to I guess Ask yourself what was a miscalculation and I know I'm not smart enough to know exactly what those miscalculations would be but I do believe that when you're dealing with people who have a different perspective on life it's a challenge and you know that's one of the problems that we have you know here's something that jumps up at me. Look at Saudi Arabia and how they treat women how they require women to keep their face covered and where these long. Hot shall we say it apparel that they wear during the the summer how they can't drive a car although that's about to change I believe and how they can't go down the street with the walking with some person of the opposite sex that they are not related to or whatever. And when you're when you're dealing with people who have those kind of customs and those kind of traditional beliefs it is very. Very hard to deal because you're not you're not measuring things with the same scale I've used this example but many times before that when the king in King Lear when the king was going to divide up his kingdom based on the love the amount of love that each of his daughters had it for him there was no no scales to measure love. You can't there's no say it's not measurable is what I'm saying and when you're dealing with a foreign country whose customs are so. Different than yours. You're you're always searching for that scale that you can measure things with and it's not there that's why I say that our foreign policy should be. Should be characterized by helping other countries help themselves through technology and through other things rather than just fork over the money there's millions of dollars that's unaccounted for that went into Afghanistan and Iraq. And any time that you have these large conglomerates that are these defense contractors or whatever it is really really easy to. To be. Wasteful with the resources that you've got that's why sometimes you hear about these hammers that cost several $100.00 when you could go down to Wal-Mart and buy him for 2 and a half or $3.00. It's it just goes with the territory is what I'm saying I'm going to take another time out here get your calls in we're waiting for your call here this morning on the the old party line I want to. Invite you to get acquainted with white funeral home of cast will Missouri you know for years and years and skip and Cathy white have. Provided caring compassionate service for the families of this region as time went by they saw the need to expand their service to northwest Arkansas. And why not because this is a dynamic growing area we've got over 600000 people now in the 2 counties Washington and and Benton County so they opened cremations only l.l.c. 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Offers cremation for your pets at a very reasonable price as well so when there's the death of a loved one you want to deal with someone you trust and we encourage you to intrust that service to white funeral home Castle Missouri they've got great facilities and I can personally tell you that Skip and Kathy white are delightful people that you can really rely on. Here's their number in cash will for 17847848478400. Cremations only l.l.c. In Springdale at 2 o 9 South girls are called a drive that phone number is 4797569407569400 they are open 24 hours a day 7 days a week and remember the bottom line is you will save money on a funeral service you will get a dignified and respectful service as well all right about 8 minutes remaining in our program this morning we are waiting for your call I will tell you that while we wait for a call I've got a statement here from our congressman who supported the National Defense Authorization Act. He says it delivers American security and wins then I'm sure that some of our listeners think that we were investing too much money in the military but here's what Congressman Steve Womack said the National Defense Authorization Act will support our military and defense strengths the bill is authorized will authorize a well deserved pay raise for our brave men and women in uniform ensure that they have the resources needed to protect the homeland and strengthen capabilities to address evolving threats I'm Saul so please that with my support provision to end this disgraceful widow's tax. Expand the Arkansas state veterans cemetery and improve military housing were also included in the final package I look forward to seeing this bill quickly passed in the Senate signed into law by President Trump highlights of the bill including include authorizations to provide our courageous troops with the largest pay raise in a decade repeal the widow's tax an important initiative that Womack has supported and advocated for expand the Arkansas state veterans cemetery transferring nearly 141 acres of land that camp Robinson to the Arkansas Department of Veterans Affairs sanctioned Russia energy projects which would undermine u.s. And European security review World War One records in order to properly honor veterans invest in the tools needed to keep our troops safe well trained and agile enhance resources to improve lethality and confront threats around the world including aggression from Russia China North Korea and Iran and emphasize policies and programs that advance America's security against emerging threats including artificial intelligence space and counter space capabilities cyber influence operations hypersonics and others Womack continued while this bill is a great step forward in authorizing critical initiatives our work is far from complete we must come together to immediately pass the defense appropriation bill to fully fund these programs otherwise we risk putting our national security in danger anything less than sustained and predictable appropriations will hinder our military and defense efforts the National Defense Authorization Authorization Act will now go to the Senate for consideration and also on another note. I'm looking here at a piece done by by let's see who's who signed off on this this is the. Dan Cairney in our why staff director House Budget Committee Republicans and it goes on to say that one way to begin addressing our unsustainable fiscal situation is to set fiscal goals which would come in the form of debt targets a new bill introduced by representatives timber Chet Republican Tennessee headcase Democrat Hawaii and House Budget Committee ranking member Steve Womack Republican Arkansas would do just that h.r. 5178 the reforming America fiscal tool kit or the buzzword is ramped or e.f.t. Of night 2100 would require budget resolutions to set debt to gross domestic product targets and would create new processes in the budget resolution to help reduce our high and rising national debt the raft act follows recent attention drawn to our fiscal situation by other bills introduced in both legislative chambers represented a case in Womack recently introduced the sustainable budget act and several lawmakers on both sides of the aisle introduced House and Senate versions of the Trust Act Now the red raft act would establish 2 ways for a budget resolution to facilitate action on achieving its fiscal targets instructions to committees or struction for a new joint select committee or fiscal responsibility j.c.s. The 1st option would create reconciliation like instructions for authorizing committees to generate enough savings to meet the debt to g.d.p. Targets in the budget resolution. The alternative option would establish a bloc cameral and bipartisan joint select committee on fiscal responsibility to agree to a comprehensive set of savings to achieve the debt to g.d.p. Targets set in the budget resolution and finally it says that Representative Birch et cation woman should be commended for highlighting the urgency around fixing the nation's finances and helping the budget set a sustainable goal for a large and growing National Debt reforming the process alone won't fix the issue but it will amplify the message and provide lawmakers a pass to make the tough decisions necessary to raise sufficient revenue reduce the cost of entitlement programs and cut low priority spending then Kerry staff director House Budget Committee Republicans signs off on this note and I say that just to indicate that while some of our listeners may think that nothing is being said or thought about the debt that we owe here in this country that here's an indication that some people are definitely concerned about the the problem let's catch another caller on the watch line this morning this is party line Good morning. Go ahead. Kernel Yes Sir John here on the speakerphone in my Prius so I'm not driving with the scone up to my ear Ok You know I'm glad that Louis who actually was in the same situation 40 years ago called Naam I'm glad he saw. The same parallel which is what I saw Afghanistan where we were lied into a desert Stam war by our military people because star general he needed to keep his job and if he forgot why we went to Afghanistan Remy's told everybody a 1000000 times that nauseum we went there because that's where the perpetrators from 911 were the planners but they left so if it was in Jersey City New Jersey it would have been there but it wasn't another thing is the guy that lost the debate a long time ago with a high voice who called back in the day passed in aspersions like the pessimist of Hillary but you can always tell a Trumper and a trump liar they never ever cite their sources he comes on here and you go say hellery stole $300000000.00 from Haiti but he never tells us the source of that and then the pessimists get on top crowd was a crime and I don't care what brand me says no it wasn't pessimists because Call me is not the us attorney and if you knew anything about government which you obviously don't know it's up to the u.s. Attorneys whether they decide to take the case to court and you see there wasn't enough grounds for any violation for it to be taken to court but comi did what he could to destroy her getting the presidency by bringing out supposition a week before the election remember that and quit trying to be your Trumper in sheep's clothing we all know it's just. Come clean about it quit lying and the last thing I want to say is this we've got all these cops that are being shot all of the United States and they're being treated like they're John McCain and dogs and everything because they were killed in the line of duty if the pessimists and all these people are against abortion are so worried about a fetus that's going to be killed then I want a lot nationwide that says if you kill a child you get the death penalty and the child's life should be considered that of the police officers have a good day all right thank you well on that note we're going to have to wind it down I do want to leave you with this one piece I'm looking here at a release from the Rogers police department Rogers police searching for missing runaway teen This is a beautiful young lady here the Rogers Police Department is asking for help in the search for a missing runaway juvenile according to the department Facebook post Sherrilyn Cheshire she h e s s h e r 16 was last seen at her residence on November 25th she is a white female and Rogers Police say she may be in the Fayetteville area. Rogers police are asking that if you know the location of Cheshire please contact the Rogers Police Department at 479-636-4141 attention detective Hannah this case is documented under incident number 201951364 this is a very attractive young lady I'm looking at her picture today and your heart goes out to the family of any 16 year old girl who suddenly is gone that is a. Very worrisome situation very worrisome situation both when they say. Run away missing runaway teen that of course portends some some problems at the at the home or whatever and on that note we'll we'll leave it there we always count of the not earn a privilege to spend time with our great listeners out here and agree or disagree we're going to be friends take care have a great day we love you. May we reflect on the miracle that happened in the little Bethlehem stable. May the wonder of that holy night in the timeless gift of God's love ring true to meaning to your Christmas season will fare as a ne service company and call cord Oklahoma wishes to thank friends family and customers for their friendship love and paper needs this holiday season and to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Christmas is a time of possibility when hearts are light and spirits soar although in our excitement let us not forget the true meaning of Christmas the birth of Jesus Christ Dr William knows the staff and Bill a Vista would like to thank their customers for their paper and aging wish them a very Merry Christmas. Oh oh oh oh yes overhead door and Springdale Arkansas in Westville Oklahoma wish you a Merry Christmas and the best for the New Year your patronage and friendship are greatly appreciated May your holiday season be filled with peace and love was the aim and let's go out too far because she was focused on the family telling the most couples that I have met that have fought through this battle have great intimacy in motion only certainly physically and spiritually there's something about fighting for your marriage in this way that there must be a sense of honesty that you both possess that really builds a better foundation than what you 1st had won it forces you to face all of your deepest issues as individuals and as a couple and if you face them and work through them rather than run from them God does produce something even more wonderful and we definitely refer to our marriage as before and after you know it the 10 years before this process and 8 years after they're so different it is like night and day it's it's. The price 3 different episodes at least if not 2 different types of marriages you write one that's built on falsehood the other built truth and that's a good thing and Nick let me kick it off in the book you mentioned something about the gift of pain that you believe this ended up being a real positive thing the way you're describing it but you called it the gift of pain from God and we Westerners are used to putting it in that context yeah it was in 2010 so we've been married for 10 years at that point and in my pattern of confession to her which was happening you know once or twice a year I'd get up the courage and feel guilty enough I would kind of share that things were still happening and I would always excuse or minimize my behavior to say it's not about you you know this is men in my life long before I met you so it's not a reaction to your beauty or lack of sex things are great there and so I would say to her to say if you only understood you wouldn't be angry or upset because it's not about you and the gift of pain was this time in 2010 when I had relapsed as I imagined myself needing to tell her yet again that I'd cross those lines the pain I was feeling wasn't my pain it was like man she would be mad and have to go through this again I think it was for the 1st time I could see in advance the pain it was going to cause her and it was heartbreaking to realise I would do this to someone I care about so much and I could feel the way I was going to make her feel because we've been through this enough times that I I could hear the words she was going to say and I was feeling her pain and I think that's what really opened my eyes to say this is a major issue that I have to address I can't just keep excusing it to say oh it's getting better I'm working on it like if I'm causing someone I love this much pain I've got to be willing to do whatever it takes to stop it what year was this in your marriage year 10 so this is year 10 I mean think of that battle and this is when you 1st become in pathetic to Michelle's heart some people go wow are you then. It's what happened there well addiction but I also don't respect the fact that you got there you know let's look at the positive side of it but answer both of those kind of emotional responses you know really one are involved in any behavior again whether it's pornography or a food addiction or drug it's actually a way of kind of numbing our emotions and you can't dial down one emotion in your life so if you're feeling lots of shame and rejection and fear and so you're acting out to kind of numb those emotions then you're also dialing down the emotions the healthy ones that you need for a good marriage and so I think what I was seeing in my life is what we see for so many men and women that struggle in this area is that they don't have much empathy and again that's why I think it is such a gift from God because somehow by His Holy Spirit that night in 2010 he just he broke through and I felt things I had never felt before that someone listening might think Why did you feel that every time and I would say I don't know I wish I had you know that because we were probably could've launched on to this journey of healing a lot sooner well in Michelle you know turning to you get tears in your eyes you're welling up that's a good thing it's Ok because you know a lot of women are in your corner reliving this thinking what was going on why are you putting up with this what you know what was happening for you emotionally I love this man and he's a great dad and he's an amazing pastor and I just didn't know why God wasn't bringing him from the start you know that was my parents God or both wanting out of the earth like why aren't you helping him he's doing everything you know what to do one at this point you had had enough and at 10 you had so at this point he had called me and I think for every woman there's a breaking point like you you know try to fix him you try to get counseling or whatever you try to make it work but then there's like this breaking point of this is going to be my forever am I Ok with that or not and then you either stay or you leave. You know there's like this heart connection that just kind of breaks I guess let me ask you that because again I appreciate your transparency it's refreshing it's so healthy but what did it feel like I mean to know that Nick was you know coming back to you a couple times a year saying you know I blew it I looked at things I saw things however that was expressed I mean as I was in what did it feel like if felt like. Like knife cuts like where you know he might hurt you and like you're bleeding out and like then they'd heal. And there but there was a scar left but there was that was over and over and over and there wasn't much life left at the end of 10 years to get back to keep working the way I've kind of decided like Ok I'm going to figure out how to move to where my parents where I live with them and so you begin that if you're scared lending again then it's like well well that's not fair to the kids I can't you know take their dad away from them so when the kids are gone and out when I know every time I confess he would tell them to me that it made you feel like you weren't good enough like you had to compare to these images and even though I would say it's not about you right wasn't Your That was silent there because that was the feeling question I had because even though Nick may have been saying that right you had to feel yeah I don't know the blank you know I don't really know enough why am I not an I don't understand why I'm not enough because from him it was separate for me it wasn't because for I think for a woman in order to do the acts that men do to their wives we would have to hate them to do those things but for men it's it's so separate it's not we compartmentalize It's not that there's almost It's not even about you but for us it's like how could it not be about me because I remember sitting in churches were speakers would come up and say oh I'm fried and I'm sitting there thinking why are we fried we're doing all those things to write you know like it's a fair question so and the important thing is that our journey of freedom wasn't just about how to stop the behavior that's what we realized in our our year long healing process that you know continued beyond a year that it wasn't about changing behavior is about changing the way you do life and when you do that you start to get into you know for me what are the core issues that are driving me how my dealing with shame what I believe about God and myself the way that open up conversations are marriage not just about pornography or sex but about what did we believe about ourselves what did we learn from our families of origin what were the wounds that we were bringing in that that I'm treating you in a way because of how my dad treated me. And and we don't even see that we're doing it and then all of a sudden it's like our eyes are open to how all of these things contribute so I say in our our healing journey that we had conversations we'd never had before not that we didn't want to we just you know how to have them and it connected us emotionally spiritually sexually as a couple in ways I don't know how else would have gotten there so we do look back and say We're so grateful for that pain and that journey because of what it brought us to yeah in the book you talk about the tunics I think you describe it that way in the sinful Mick in the good nick you know the one that wants to pursue the Lord and be holy and live a life that's pleasing to him you know what was God speaking to your heart in that moment about the tunics I mean I think every man knows exactly what you're talking about you know I think we call it the public me and the private me it's like the me I want you to see and that I believe I am in the private me is where I'm dealing with sin and brokenness and stuff I don't like and the real danger and what I discovered is we can convince ourselves that the public me is the real me that that's the best version of us that if we could just get rid of all this other junk we could be that in fact you ask God to destroy that private because it feels like somehow that's not us but I I remember I was I was out running in just feeling so broken by and ask God to take it away as one of those few moments in my life I just really clearly felt I heard his voice not you know audibly but but just that whisper in my soul a saying but that's the nick I died for. And to know that he loved me in that part of myself and to become open to the idea that maybe that broken struggling part of my life was actually more authentically me than anything I was publicly presenting as this clean up persona was really an eye opening part of this journey and that is as I look back to see how God works through that that all of that brokenness was actually revealing where God's design had been corrupted and as he was able to bring in his truth and experience show away and rewrite some of that faulty thinking it really brought me alive in what I feel happened it begins to destroy the public me Private me divide you know I don't I don't need to have both we need to be able to just be in public who we are in private and not fear that that will be rejected for we just need to be vulnerable and humble and allow God to keep transforming us from the inside out. This is focus on the family with Jim Daly and our guests today are Nick and Michelle's Stumbo And as we're talking about this topic if it's resonating with you if sin has a hold of you and you just don't know where to turn. Shine some light on it make a phone call talk to us here at focus we have caring Christian counselors and our number is 800 the letter a in the word family you can also find help and resources including Nick's book setting us free An Unexpected Journey of grace at Focus on the Family dot com slash broadcast. You're describing a tension point you've been touching on this for some time now in our conversation today there's Paul in Romans talking about you know I'm a sinful man and I do the things that I don't want to do and I can't quite straighten it all out did you identify with Paul's writing as you struggled as you confess you came back to that in what relationship did you have with that passage of Scripture Oh yeah absolutely I think Romans 7 describes the plight of anyone battling some sort of besetting sin that site it's there and the harder I try it seems like the more it comes back you know and then declaring within the victory of who will set me free thanks be to Jesus Christ our Lord who leads us in victory and and that hope of one day I'll really be able to say those words with conviction because one day I'll be free one day there will be victory but right now I'm stuck in the why do I do what I don't want to do and in fact that was part of when we shared our story of our congregation referencing that passage to say I feel like I've lived this passage for a number of years even as your pastor and asked for their forgiveness asked for their help in starting groups for men and women that struggled and tried to create an environment to say this is the human predicament not just for a few of us that couldn't we all look at our lives somewhere and say in spite of my best intentions I do the things I don't want to do and it opens our eyes to see this isn't about just pornography or sexual sin but really where do we as humans get off the mark and what is recovery and healing look like Hey let's get to the bow of the story because it's so beautiful 10 years we've gotten to that point all the Nx that I appreciate again your vulnerability to share that let's talk about how the Lord tied this together when you did make that final decision to say it's done both of your reactions the role that peer desire ministries played in that regard the one you now lead and took over from I think the founder just describe that for us in the fact that you're in a much better place now you're helping hundreds if not thousands of people with this sexual. Addiction problem tell us what happened yeah. Admittedly I still was so minimizing I didn't think I needed it but Michelle heard those same words of invitation to get help and she knew we did and so I took this intermediate step to go meet with a counselor friend in our district who asked me really 3 life changing questions because I said I don't think I need I just need a little bit it's hips how to avoid progress but he said Nick let's think about this number one how long has this been in your life while so by the time it had been over 15 years yeah he said Ok Number 2 how many times you tried to stop and actually chuckle because I said well every time has been the last time so I've tried to stop literally hundreds if not thousands of times right and he said Ok is it causing you or people you care about significant amounts of pain and I said well yeah I believe if I don't change my wife will leave me and he said well put that together Nick it's been a problem for a while you've tried repeatedly to stop and can't even though it's causing you or people you love pain I said Yeah that's a pretty good description said Nick that's a clinical definition of addiction and I remember I sat back in my chair like he'd sucker punch me because I was a pastor and I was a 1st time it came together I truly loved the Lord with my whole I mean it's as much as I knew how to love him with my whole heart and the idea that I could simultaneously be that and be an addict was as foreign to me as you know the German language would be if I tried to speak like that language was so bizarre but when I allow that to sink in the openness maybe this is why I can't just stop it on my own and gave me the willingness to go out on a meet with Ted Knight and Roberts and we got to go together which I think was so important that that from the get go they worked with us as a couple so we could deal with her my wife's pain and sense of betrayal and a lack of trust and then also the behaviors in my life and we met with 10 on Roberts and started to go through the counseling process and probably the most significant thing they required of us was to be in a group which I also did not want to do because I already had Saturday night services and other meetings and small grew. And who needs one more nightly commitment a week but Dr Ted said to me if you don't do this you won't change because he saw the central role community has to play in recovery so I went to a group I didn't like it at 1st but I found about 8 or 10 weeks in his were going every week that one night as I was driving up and I'll just tell this one part of the story and then Michelle can kind of share hers I was driving up to my group and I realized I'd been looking forward to it all week and this is so bizarre I'm going to a place where people know the very worst things about me I've told them things I've never told anybody else and I can't wait to get there what is going on and again it was one of those moments I heard the voice the largest whisper to my soul he said Nic it's the only place in your life you feel real and I realized that was it everywhere else I was so involved in that public me that I felt like if people knew they'd reject me but in that group they knew the private me like no one else ever did and I was a part of that group I was loved and accepted and it was that group that really along with the counseling created such transformation right now I didn't have to posture or pretend anymore for love and when you experience that from other people that's right I think I most deeply experience the love of God Yeah that I've been a pastor for 10 years and I knew knowledge wise head wise all about the love of God I could preach about it but I don't know that I've ever really experienced it because that voice of shame that said people would reject you when I experienced the love from those other men that's where the love of God became real and so from then marriage and ministry became ministering out of the love of God rather than ministering in the hope that I might achieve the love of God and that was a night and a change for me so well and that's the common phrase about being known and that is the Christian life that God loves you even though he knows you and I think it's hard for us to believe that he truly knows us we tried to hide those places thinking that the Creator does it I mean it's kind of there we know he knows we just think he. Has a very disapproving opinion of most correct even worse he's got the club All right Michelle So your best day my best day well that was one of them when peer desire came in they were up there telling about this program I was bawling my eyes were like Biggest saucers like this is it Lord answered my prayer today like this is this is what's going to save my marriage and then I look over and Helix over at me and I'm just you know crying and to hear him that like not realize that he was going to be all and it's still kind of like surprising like why would you be running up there like big lady. That was a big important day and then meeting with Ted and I and was wonderful I didn't want to go to a woman's group though I had little kids at home and you're both busy it's so funny to hear you guys both talk do I need to group this is his problem you know but then going through its called the trailer beyond women's groups and seeing all the other women they're all Christian women whose husbands struggle with this are some husbands have left but they're there working on you know their stuff and to hear all their stories and our stories are so different but it all we all feel the same pain the we all feel the similar same reality same cloth a different stitch Yeah it was just like whoa and just to see all of us feel so like not enough and I think that's just the way that Satan gets to us is like you're not enough Yeah you know it's so impressive the way you highlight community and the importance of being vulnerable in a group where you can be real I mean that came through loud and clear the last few minutes and how few people actually experience that today and in modern community I mean it's just so faster because busy are you I'm great. And the nature of sexual sin it isolates us and so when we try to fix it in isolation that doesn't work and we want to be. Better and not have anyone know about it but the pathway to being better is having other people know about it and be part of that journey with us yeah talk to the length of time to get counseling to work on these things intentionally What was that period of time like how long was it with counseling and help you know initially the what I would kind of call the intense change process was about a year long of the counseling and being in groups but the healing continues you know the 2nd time of going through the group material right got to lead it in my church and help other men I was still learning so much about myself because really that 1st year in some ways is like tree eyes who are stopping the bleeding and the pain and figuring out how to arrest the behavior you know the behavior in my life actually change very quickly but the underlying issues those things don't change overnight and so it was a it was a full 2 to 3 years of working through performance and shame and guilt that that occurred and that's what we really try to encourage people to see is this change isn't something you can do in a 5 week study or read a good book and you'll be Ok it's funny you say that as the author of a book. But to really take the long view to see if these are issues that developed in my life over years and maybe decades it may take a year or 2 of intentional work to unravel what's going on yeah I mean and I think that's pretty fast paced and it'll take the wife about 2 to 5 years to rebuild that trust and yeah boy that's that's encouraging and discouraging but then I don't actually go out there book one twice because the 1st time I was pretty much like I just wasn't I didn't have much feeling I think that's how I coped with our struggle if I just numbed out. Again is reasonable so that's a process for the victim in this case the spouse who's experienced that So boy this is been so good i hope you the listener you have appreciated what Nick and Michelle had done here they have laid their life out to maybe 23000000 people through focus on the family and that takes. Courage and I so appreciate it and I'm telling John our phone should be ringing off the hook for people who want to get counseling help and I hope you'll do that you're not going to shock us or surprise us this is us this is humanity this is what God is believing in the us that we can do better live for Him and authentic ways and I appreciate your model I really do Nic I can't imagine the pressure you must have felt being the pastor facing very straightforwardly this issue and that takes incredible courage Michel I'll give you credit takes more courage to be his wife to be blunt and to suffer through that for 10 years she's the real hero Yeah and I you know applaud you and I would really to the best of my ability to encourage your wife particularly to fight for her marriage not to give up that God is 100 in fighting for it and you know try to make the right moves and he may be a rascal he may have done some things that really hurt but get on that journey of healing and man I think when you go through that you are a powerful couple for Christ because there's no hidden often the enemy wins when or alone but when we started telling a story and that's why we do this we tell our story because we know that if it brings other people out of hiding that the Lord can begin to win and you know the enemy only can win it by subtraction by one at a time isolating us reward wins by multiplying healing so the victory can come a lot faster and I think not the thank my 2nd favorite part was when he discussed our church because it was all I didn't have to carry that burden alone and I bet it was an essay I really like that yeah where we carry each other's burdens Well isn't that the way to do it thank you so much for being with us thank you so much Yeah absolutely. Great to take. Station with Nick and Michelle stumble on this best of 21000 broadcast of focus on the family and it's our hope and prayer that you'll take Nick's words to heart and seek out help if you need it it may be that you lived with a quiet private struggle that chess cannot imagine telling anyone about but you can tell one of our counselors contact us and start their journey into the light Our number is 800 the letter a in the word family 802326459 John we also want people to contact us about getting a copy of Nick's book setting us free An Unexpected Journey of grace it's a powerful story and a great resource to have in your library or maybe for someone you know who is struggling with this issue and I hope you'll reach out to focus on the family here at the end of the year we really need to hear from you for your prayers and financial support means so much to us and when you share the gift of family you literally provide the fuel we need to help the hundreds of thousands of married couples and parents and single adults who will contact us in this coming year this month is critical because we have a matching gift opportunity for you so anything you're able to give will be doubled and that means more marriages rescued more parents equipped more pre-born babies saved all because of your generosity so please partner with focus on the family today we'd love to hear from you today and you can donate at Focus on the Family dot com slash broadcast or by calling 800 a family and when you make that generous gift of any amount either a monthly pledge were a one time gift we will say thank you by sending a copy of setting us free. Coming up next time a rather convicting message from British evangelist j. John one of the things about the Christmas season. Is that we can get so preoccupied with the baby Jesus that we miss said you've got some move on and look at his line and you've got to move from the cradle to the cross That's next time on focus on the family and thanks for listening when you get in touch let us know the call letters of this radio station I'm John Fuller and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team join us next time as we once again help you and your family throughout. The phone this is Warren Cain and evangelist with the Downtown Church of Christ in Rogers Arkansas and I'd like to invite you to spend just a moment with me in the Bible some people believe that one church is as good as another but is that true if one church is as good as another would a Church of Satan be Ok Well of course not but sadly many people are really not interested in being part of the Church that Jesus built instead they are much more interested in searching for what pleases them than searching in God's word for what pleases him and that is a fundamentally wrong and sinful approach that will cost many there so for more information on this and other Bible topics along with our contact information go to our website at downtown so you've seen gotten it again this is Warren Kean with the Downtown Church of Christ unloading up on our time coming up on 12 noon to stay tune your farm our news is coming up following c.b.s. News and then perms dollar trade coming up at around 105 this afternoon later on the seeming it-I school basketball the Eagles at the Tony. Matcher is tournament in Farmington they take on hot springs Lakeside tonight will be there at around $730.00 you're listening to k. You are mam $790.00 Roger Springdale Bentonville k u r m f m 100.3 grab at southwest city Siloam Springs in k 2 for e.d.m. 97.5 in Huntsville It's 1 o'clock. This is c.b.s. News on the hour your home for original reporting I'm Steve k. Fan lawmakers are getting in their parting shots on the 2 articles of impeachment against President Trump We're live in Washington with c.b.s. The Steve Dorsey Steve the hearing just recess for a break it began with the reading of the draft articles of impeachment atra 755 mph in John John Trump president of the United States for high crimes and misdemeanors Democrats and Republicans have been clashing Texas Republican Louie Gohmert we're even hearing today like we just did oh yes there were crimes when I was a Aren't they in this impeachment document because they don't exist at the core of the impeachment articles how President Trump handled Ukraine California Democrat Eric Swalwell President Trump demanded and sought the announcement. And conduct of politically motivated investigations by presidents Alinsky committee vote is expected later today on the finalized version Steve new comments from New Jersey's attorney general Gerber gray wall about the shootout at a Jewish market in Jersey City this week the evidence points towards acts of hate I can confirm that we're investigating this matter as potential acts of domestic terrorism and yesterday the city's mayor labeled it a hate crime federal authorities have charged 10 former n.f.l. Players in a scheme to defraud the league's health care program of more than $3000000.00 George Piro of the f.b.i. Says those charged use the plan like a personal a.t.m. Numerous individuals including the n.f.l. Players involved submit claims for durable medical equipment including items for more than $50000.00 on a single claim however no such Quitman was provided 5 former members of the Washington Redskins are among those accused Major League Baseball's removing marijuana from its list of banned substances and players who test positive for some other drugs like opioids and cocaine will be referred to treatment before there's any kind of discipline but a good day for stocks on Wall Street after President Trump tweeted the u.s. Is very close to a trade deal with China business analyst Jill slash injures says it could set the stage for some investors to cash in before the end of the year u.s. Stocks broadly are up between 25 and 30 percent this year and the lifting of the trade uncertainty will maybe have the markets go a little bit higher but it also may give people an opportunity to take a breath and say well you know what not sure how much longer this is going to go on maybe I'll light not my load a little bit Wall Street right now the Dow is up 125 points the Nasdaq is ahead 18 points the s. And p. 500 have been trading in record territory that's up about 16 points this is c.b.s. News. We did walk on the c.b.s. This morning and join Tony to cope and to be placing and killed him I'm very glad to see us this morning we. Make Burlington stores your home for the holidays how you deck your halls go for farmhouse chic this season.