Who's off to college as previous novel The Leftovers also was adapted by h.b.o. Also Booker t. Jones in the 1960 s. And early seventy's he led the band Booker t. In the. They also were the house band for the Memphis based Stax Records. Grade with a paper route when he 1st started playing at Stax I was one of the Get Out Of School of. Music. That although. He has a new memoir. The news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington Stevens a federal judge says Justice Department materials on the special counsel's Russia probe must be turned over to House impeachment investigators as N.P.R.'s miles sparks reports the judge also says the impeachment inquiry is legally valid undercutting a Republican argument against the probe Republicans have been opposed to the ongoing House investigation because there hasn't been a full floor vote yet to authorize impeachment proceedings but Chief Judge Beryl Howell called that argument cherry picked and incomplete George Howell also ruled that the Justice Department must give the House Judiciary Committee grand jury material and other now secret material from former special counsel Robert Muller's Russian vest a geisha the Democrats case has been strengthened judge how wrote by the White House's refusal to cooperate with the inquiry the judge said October 30th deadline for disclosure but that could change depending on whether the Justice Department decides to appeal miles parks n.p.r. News Washington President Johnson oldest son Eric says his family may be willing to sell their son Eric says the family may be willing to sell their namesake hotel near the White House N.P.R.'s Jim reports at the hotel has been at the center of complaints that the troops are profiting off the presidency Eric Trump says in a statement quote people are objecting to us making so much money and therefore we may be willing to sell He also says the Trump organization will work with the commercial real estate firm to try to sell the historic hotels lease owned by the federal government critics have long noted that the Trump International plays host to lobbyist diplomats and other Washington power players looking to influence the president in the statement Eric Trump defends his father saying President Trump has made countless voluntary sacrifices he says the president has willingly turned away business while in office in what he called undoubtedly a selfless act Jim n.p.r. News the civic Gas and Electric says more than. 2000000 people in northern and central California could lose power if the utilities plant outages are expanded this weekend a fire burning in Sonoma County may have been caused by wind dams transition line another massive blaze is burning in the Santa Clarita area Governor Gavin Newsome accuses p.g. Any of putting profits before people that greed has precipitated in a lack of intentionality and focus on hardening their grid under running their transmission lines they simply did not do their job Newsome says p.g. And Southern California Edison will be held accountable for losses due to mandatory blackouts were meant to prevent weather related fires he's declared state of emergencies in Sonoma and Los Angeles counties Wall Street stocks closed higher today with the Dow Jones Industrials rising 152 points the Nasdaq composite index gained 57 in the s. And p. 500 added 12. This is n.p.r. News. The Pentagon has awarded Microsoft a $10000000000.00 cloud computing contract called Jet I the bidding process that Microsoft Amazon and Oracle among others against one another John I will store and process vast amounts of classified data allowing the military to use artificial intelligence to speed up its war planning and fighting capabilities according to reports by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International Turkey is deporting Syrian refugees to a war zone in northeast Syria from Istanbul durables Karen reports that most of the refugees were arrested during workplace raids or at checkpoints individual accounts of refugees being deported to Syria began to surface in July though they were denied by the Turkish government the n.s.t. International report documents 20 cases of people being forced often violently to sign forms saying they were returning to Syria voluntarily they were then handcuffed with zip ties and boarded onto buses many said they were arrested because their id cards were registered in one province but they were living in another amnesties researcher on refugee and migrant rights into shape said Turkey deserves recognition for hosting 3600000 Syrians during the war but said the country cannot use this generosity as an excuse to flout international and domestic law for n.p.r. News I'm sorry this current in Istanbul the u.s. Transportation Department says it plans to bar all u.s. Flights to Cuba except Havana the policy change is set to take effect on December 10th I'm sure Stevens n.p.r. News in Washington. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the William t. Grant Foundation working to harness the power of research to make a difference in the lives of children teens and young adults for more than 80 years learn more at w.t. Grants f d n dot org. This is Fresh Air I'm David Bianculli editor of the website t.v. Worth Watching sitting in for Terry Gross today's 1st guest is author Tom Perrotta whose recent novel Mrs Fletcher is being dramatized this Sunday as a new h.b.o. Mini series Kathryn Hahn stars in the title role Mrs Fletcher both the h.b.o. Series and the novel urban major life transitions and the sexual transitions that accompany them when the novel begins Eve a 46 year old divorced single mother is saying goodbye to her son Brendan who's leaving for college Brendan expects college to be a big beer in pizza party with plenty of girls he's unprepared for the way he'll be called out for his sexist behavior while Eva's been worried about the influence of porn on how her son treats young women she finds herself turning to porn and in surprised by how much she starts to like it. Tom Perrotta spoke to Terry Gross in 2017 when Mrs Fletcher was 1st published a note to parents although they talk a little about how the main character becomes drawn to porn they don't talk explicitly about the porn she watches Tom Perrotta Welcome back to Fresh Air I want to ask you to start by reading from the very beginning of Mrs Fletcher It was a long drive and Eve cried most of the way home because the big day hadn't gone the way she'd hoped not that big days ever did birthdays holidays weddings graduations funerals they were all too loaded with expectations and the important people in her life rarely acted the way they were supposed to most of them didn't even seem to be working from the same script as she was then maybe that said more about the important people in her life than it did about big days in general take today all she wanted from the moment she opened her eyes in the morning was a chance to let Brenda know what was in her heart to express all the love that had been building up over the summer swelling to the point where she sometimes thought her chest would explode it just seemed really important to say it out loud before he left to share all the gratitude and pride she felt not just for the wonderful person he was right now but for the sweet little boy he'd been and the strong and decent man he would one day become and she wanted to reassure him too to make it clear that she would be starting a new life just the same as he was and that it would be a great adventure for both of them don't worry about me she wanted to tell him you just study hard and have fun I'll take care of myself but that conversation never happened Brendan had overslept he'd been out late partying with his buddies and when he finally dragged himself out of bed he was useless to hung over to help with the last minute packing or the loading in the van. It was just so irresponsible leaving her with her bad back to lug his boxes and suitcases down the stairs in the sticky August heat sweating through her good shirt while he sat in his boxers at the kitchen table struggling with the childproof cap on a bottle of ibuprofen but she managed to keep her irritation in check she didn't want to spoil their last morning together with petty nagging even if he deserved it going out on the sour note would have been a disservice to both of them that's Tom Perrotta reading from his new novel Mrs Fletcher So I love that you have these 2 parallel transitions mothers transition the single mothers transition when her son is leaving for college and his transition when he is the one who is leaving and there are still many points in this book where I think he's being so oblivious to her needs and I thought back to myself when I left for college I've been thinking about my parents needs. I didn't ask them how do you feel now that I'm leaving home and never would have occurred to me no you think you assume they're all right there stories are set and you're the one who's on the adventure Exactly and that's part of the point of your book the mother story is not sat like she's questioning who she is she says Sex questioning her sexual orientation she's questioning what kind of life she wants to have how she should shake up her life so what got you thinking about these 2 parallel transitions the mothers and the sons and how you could kind of join them together well the 1st part of it is I think that I've been kind of tracking my own life in my fiction so when my kids were little and on the playground I wrote little children based on those experiences and when they were playing sports in junior high and high school that gave me some of the raw material for The Abstinence Teacher and the most recent era of my life has been this transition to the empty nest and to this post parental moment of reflection like Ok this huge project of raising kids is is over what is my life look like now where you know where is my wife What is her life look like as well but I never really write straight autobiography and it seemed like a much more poignant thing to reflect on what it would be like for a woman whose son was the other person in her family she really is alone when when he goes to school the empty nest really is empty for her. Another thing that really sets off the story it's on the day that she's about to drive him to college for his 1st day there the girlfriend who her son has broken up with comes over for a visit so the mother Eve goes out to get gas before driving him to college when she returns she hears that they're engaged in a sexual act and he's giving her her son is giving his. Girlfriend really his ex-girlfriend these crude sexual commands about what to do to him calling her the b. Word and Eve is just like appalled like she's an enlightened woman who thinks he she hates the slang that she hates everything it stands for and she doesn't know how to have that conversation with him and certainly doesn't want to have it with him on the day that they're partying that he's going to college but she wants him to begin college with the understanding that there's a difference between sexual relationships and really real life and the soulless and counter he presumably watches on the internet so what made you think about that does that come out of your life too morning to make sure that your children weren't learning crude condescending ways of speaking to their boyfriend or girlfriend from either learning it from friends from television from porn whatever well I just think it's a really interesting and peculiar moment in American culture because on the one hand there is this kind of crudeness in the way that we talk and on the other hand there's this conflicting urge to to really police the way that that we speak and so you see it with. You know the b. Word as you said it's very common to hear women laughingly refer to their friends with with that word but then there's a sense that you know a guy should never say it to a woman and you might say well that's a clear rule but it's also a confusing rule I think it's a shock for Eve to hear her son use this word in a sexual context and I think she immediately thinks that he learned it from porn where because he certainly wouldn't have anybody modeling that kind of language for him in real life so you know she's assuming her son watches porn and then once he's out of the house she starts watching a lot of porn and you describe the kind of porn She's especially interested in. Yeah well she perceives an anonymous text that applies a certain label to her which which you and I have agreed to say or she's a sexy mom a mom who is sexually desirable people will know the acronym and she's offended by it and it's a dirty text but that same time she realizes she's not really sure about what the term means and she goes to look it up the way the way we do and she realizes that it's not quite the old Mrs Robinson stereotype it's a more neutral and possibly even complimentary term suggesting that you may be older you may be a mom but you're still desirable and in the course of doing that she's led to a website that basically consists of ordinary women in their thirty's and forty's. You know sending in or their husbands or their partners sending in videos of them engaged in sex it's highly amateur and it's just about people saying hey this is me here you can get a glimpse into my into my bedroom and she's surprised to find herself watching lesbian porn Yes You know she she samples the menu which is which is vast and at a certain point she settles on this lesbian porn as. You know she's never thought of herself in this way but this porn turns around and I think it. Leads her to sense that there are sexual possibilities in her world that she hasn't investigated yet in the 60 mother category of lesbian porn. You describe it as often beginning with a reluctant woman grumpily washing dishes or mopping the floor when the doorbell rings and then a more confident woman arrives with a bottle of wine and a bit of exposed cleavage and then the action begins Did you watch a lot of this before writing the novel. I watched enough to write than I Yeah I did and it was it was really interesting because. You know if you I mean people have different responses to porn obviously and some of it is disturbing and some of it is just too much but I did find that I was especially interested by this category of porn that involved a kind of a seduction because I think very different from you know the stereotypical male porn that would just sometimes just launch right in you know nobody wants any talking but but there was this sense that you know I guess maybe this is the definition of a certain kind of female friendly porn that that it was about 2 people connecting and about it was about seduction actually very clearly and then in contrast in that with her son he grows up in a boy culture were date rape doesn't seem like. It's necessarily wrong to the boys and if you're a guy who tries to intervene and stop date sexual harassment or date rape you can't be bullied for it and it makes it very confusing for the boys I think and I'd like to know what you were thinking about when you're writing this character who is kind of subscribing to that kind of behavior and language and not really understanding what's wrong with that even though he grows up in a family that wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior right and he would say that it was wrong if you asked him about it and I do think that I was really interested in the fact that we talk way more about consent then we did when I was in college when we are college by the way I graduated in 1903 and you know I think the whole sort of body of knowledge of you know or just even the category of sexual harassment didn't fully exist like I think I certainly knew students who'd had affairs with teachers and that was sort of considered you know a little bit risky but not beyond the pale and you know it just it just hadn't been codified as an offense at that point it would soon change but I will say we didn't speak as much about consent we didn't speak as much about sexual boundaries I think we're closer to the sexual revolution it was right at the moment when aid started to really change people's sexual behaviors but it is it is interesting to me that you know students now have all these workshops and sessions about consent and yet it does seem like the problem I don't know if it's getting better statistically it's hard it's hard to say but it does seem that these guys are somewhat immune to. All of the teaching or are they arrive at college still expecting to have that for that party that they've been dreaming about Author Tom Perrotta speaking with Terry Gross in 2017 more after a break this is fresh air for 2 time Pulitzer winner wanted to see if he could choose a day at random and find tales worth Cheli we seem to have the worst day of the week in the worst week of the year in a bad year Love Lost struggle and success stories from December 28th 1906 and the latest news Saturday on Weekend Edition from n.p.r. News. Here Weekend Edition tomorrow morning on k.u.n.c. And Sultan This is Fresh Air Let's get back to Terry's 2017 interview with author Tom Perrotta his novel Mrs Fletcher has been made into an h.b.o. Mini series of the same name which premieres Sunday so the mother Eve wanting some kind of adventure in her life with the new freedom that she has like she misses her son she's alone. So she's both lonely but she also senses she has this freedom and she wants to use it and one of the ways she uses it of weaved as we've discussed is like watching pornography but when she goes out to dinner with a younger woman who works on her staff at the senior citizen center she makes a pass at her which is rejected and this is the 1st time she's ever even thought of the possibility of having a relationship with a woman and when she's rejected it's kind of devastating it's like Ok I tried freedom like what did I think I was doing like I can apparently I can't do that apparently I've made a terrible mistake now I'm just really embarrassed it's inappropriate to she things as like the boss to have made a pass at someone who works for her and she says like that's sexual harassment and why did I do that and she's just heartbroken and disappointed in herself and also in hit by the response that she's gotten and I thought it was interesting for you as a male writer to try to really get deep into this woman's head while trying out for the 1st time a lesbian relationship. Yeah and I think it really was coming from that that sense that once she starts looking at porn certain things in real life look different to her so she's watching all this porn where a confident experienced woman is seducing a woman who is sort of reluctant I guess is that is the word that's used in the book there's a confident one and a reluctant one and she's having this wonderful dinner with her employee and there's it's kind of flirtatious and they're discussing sex and they're discussing gender and she keeps feeling like the gravity of this porn scenario like oh you know which one of us is the confident one which one of us is the reluctant one and somehow I think this is really what the book is about it's it during this fall that most of the action takes place in Eva's feeling her life becoming a kind of a porn scenario or a series of porn scenarios that and they do cause her to act in ways that she never would have acted before and ways that go against her principles and one of the things that she says in that that I do think is absolutely true is in porn there's no such thing as sexual harassment any time a kind of illicit situation is set up it's so that Pete the doctor can have sex with the patient and suffer just for a 2nd I think even mistakes her life for a porn scenario and then when cold water gets splashed on her she it's like she's waking from a dream like what was I doing what was I thinking and I am very interested in those moments when people do things that run contrary to to their deepest principles to their sense of right and wrong those are the moments I think when we find out who we really are you know you're saying too that we sometimes confuse freedom with violating our own principles yet that's that's really interesting right that's certainly how it is when we're kids right where we're told you can't do this and you can't do that and the minute you find yourself alone those are the things you want to do and so there is something. In that kind of youthful rebellion against parental strictures that I think can still effect you when you're an adult I remember talking to a friend of mine when our kids had 1st left for college and his little bit older and his kids had been gone and I said oh yeah we're where you're going to have an empty nest you know pretty soon and he just looked at me with this sort of weirdly and said well the pressure to have sex is enormous. You know it's like the kids leaving was like before when your parents left like you suddenly free there's nothing stopping you and I do feel like Eve is in this moment when you know she's alone she's on her own and I think she does want to have a sexual life and she's trying to figure out how to make that happen since you write about turning points in people's lives was a big turning point in your life well I I do have to say that going to college was going to college at Yale specifically after growing up where I did in New Jersey at the time I was really adamant with myself that I was not going to let this be Ivy League world change who I was and that I could go there kind of take what it had to offer and emerge kind of unscathed and and I really tried that I had a girlfriend at home I came home a lot on weekends I always came home for the summer as I always had blue collar jobs. But at the certain point in my late twenty's I suddenly realized you know I don't eat the same food as my parents anymore I don't watch the same t.v. Shows t.v. Shows them I don't read the same books I feel like there's this distance sometimes between me and older friends I think that it's just in spite of all of my determination I had been really transformed by the experience of going to this elite Ivy League college at that particular point in my life how did your parents and how did your old friends react to the change version of you did your parents say what happened to you you're not our son anymore. No You know my parents were great about it I think especially my mom she was the one who really encouraged my siblings and me to to go to the best schools we possibly could and I think she sort of accepted that that transformation I remember occasionally my father has been dead for the past 15 years but I do remember a few times when I was sort of just mocking some t.v. Show he was watching and I thought of just a dumb show it was and I remember that he turned me with a really he was both irritated and wounded I think by the fact that I was looking down on the show that that he was watching and you know I still actually feel feel bad about that and I don't that's the part of the transformation in my own life that I'm not crazy about you know the sense that the country really is divided by class and by virtue of going to an Ivy League school I did like sort of jump social classes and and it's really you know you there is a kind of condescension that can come with that that I you know have to really fight in myself Well Tom Perrotta thanks so much for talking with us again oh thanks so much for having me it's such a pleasure Tom Perrotta speaking to Terry Gross in 2017 his novel Mrs Fletcher has been adapted into an h.b.o. Mini series of the same name it premieres Sunday starring Katherine Hahn in the title role. After a break Booker t. Jones who in the New York Times just called Souls ultimate sideman he fronted the band Booker t. In the. At the Monterey international pop music festival in 1967 which made stars of such influential music acts as Janis Joplin The Who in Jimi Hendrix Booker t. In the m. G.'s was the backing band for another headline grabbing act Otis Redding I'm David Bianculli and this is Fresh Air. Our Family Foundation supports w.h.y. Was fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Progressive Insurance offering its home port Explorer so shoppers can evaluate options in one place when buying home insurance custom quotes and rates are available online learn more at progressive dot com. And from the estate of Joan b. Kroc whose book serves as an enduring investment in the future of public radio and to help n.p.r. Produce programming that meets the highest standards of public service in journalism and cultural expression. Good evening your listening to k.u.n.c. I'm Ashley Jeffcoat. Fresh air on q. And see is supported by outpost sun sport presenting Warren Miller's time last November 1st at the Lincoln Center with featured shoot locations in Colorado Wyoming Austria France and more tickets at Outpost sun sport in 4 Collins or ad l c t i.x. Dot com weather on the front range tonight mostly clear lows in the thirty's a sunny tomorrow with highs in the seventy's and Fort Collins a high near 69 fresh air continues next on k.u.n.c. . This is the Colorado City. Media. Touchstone Junoon decay un sees sister station at one o 5 it's the Colorado sound. This is Fresh Air I'm David Bianculli in for Terry Gross our next guest is Booker t. Jones in the 1960 s. And seventy's he led the band Booker t. And the M.G.'s which had several hits including the popular instrumental known as green onions he and his m. G.'s also wear the house band for the Memphis based soul label Stax Records and they eventually received a Grammy Award for lifetime achievement but at age 74 Booker t. Jones isn't through achieving yet he's still performing and recording and he's just come out with another release but this time it's not a single or an album it's a book a memoir named after one of his memorable recordings called Time is Tight it talks of his less than privileged childhood in Memphis his passion for music and songwriting and his career backing up such a legendary artists as Sam and Dave Albert King and Otis Redding Terry Gross spoke with Booker t. Jones in 2007 the year he was awarded his lifetime achievement Grammy let's start with green onions. The 50 welcome to Fresh Air It's an honor to have you on our show Thank you Terry I'm glad to be you would you tell us the story behind the track that we just heard . Well that happened as something of an accident we were at the studio as session musicians to play a session for an artist who didn't show up so we use the time to record our blues which we called behave yourself and I played it on have an m 3 organ and just do it the owner was the engineer and he really liked it thought it was great actually and wanted to put it out as a record. So we all agreed on that and jump told us that we needed something to record for a big side because we couldn't have a one sided record and. One of the times that I've been playing on piano we tried on have an organ so that you know the record would have organ on both sides and that turned out to be green onions now. Basically became the the house band for Stax Records and then you played on a lot of their recordings How did you become a member of the Stackhouse band and well I was an 11th grade. And my friend David Porter knew that Rufus Thomas and his daughter collar were recording one day and I guess they had requested a baritone sax part on a song and David thought of me David drove over to the high school came up with some type of hall pass and got me out of class and somehow came up with the band directors car keys and keys to the instrument room and so down we went to get the baritone sax out of the instrument room and into the bar car and overstocks records and through the door and there I was one we hear the recording that you played baritone sax on which is your 1st recording for Stax you want to introduce it for us it's called Cause I Love You by Rufus and Paula Thomas Ok let's hear That's Rufus and Carla Thomas the 1st recording that was of that featured Booker t. But he wasn't on keyboards and Verizon saxophone and Booker t. Is my guest so you stayed obviously I mean you were you were in 11th grade you made this recording and us ended up becoming part of the house band how did they was it hard to convince you to stay Did you have to convince them that they needed you oh I convinced them I actually had a paper route I was my job in the afternoon and though I convinced them to to try me out on piano and eventually all of them and I've actually played all of Oregon on the way in Belle song which they like the part you don't miss your water a lot of the sauce and so after I played that part I had the job so it was like going to high school and making records at the same time oh it's unreal I was. I was one of us to get out of school and get my papers thrown and get over the stacks of my throw every day to get to go and play music until. I don't have o'clock every night. Booker t. And the m. G.'s is so associated with the stack sound such an essential part of what is described as the Stax sound but how would you describe the Stax sound. I would say it's a simple earthy sound you know just born out of the. Blues and country and jazz roots and also gospel it was a song that you know we consciously tried to keep sample and and with a lot of feeling do you remember the 1st time you met Otis Redding odors was. A valet for a band from Georgia he was carrying the clubs and doing the driving and going for the food and coffee and sanctions or whatever he had to do to keep the band going and I remember the day pulled up with Johnny Jenkins of the patent office was the name of the group he was working for if they just basically came in and he sat around and waited and they did their their dumb office tax and after they did their demo oldest asked if he could sing a song which was a little inappropriate but they are we allowed him John and Steve Cropper and the rest of us allowed him to sing a song with us and that song was these arms of mine and so everyone was moved by that So at that moment he became Otis Redding. So let's hear one of the records you made with Otis rock reading how about Dock of the day do you have memories of making this record. Yes I do have memories of that that was a. Particularly special and hectic time oldest so was. Getting ready to go out on tour without us and we had just returned to Memphis from the Monterey Pop Festival and Europe Otis was disjointed and hurried in anxious. Alice sorts so he wanted to record all the time he was insisting that we stay. You know I'm common hours and we were working late at night and people were probably sleeping at the studio and it seemed like we were working around the clock Well that's not how it sounds a. Record It's not a record that stunt sounds like it was made by people who were tired and overall overworked did the mood change when you didn't really learn it I'm not sure that we were tired and overworked when we did this particular one but the week was one that we recorded I think a whole album and just a few days. You know that the music always created its own energy once we started playing so even if you were tired. You know playing with all this and playing with each other the music just. You know it's got a life of its own and so on but the tiredness didn't matter. Well let's. Played an organ on many of the. One we just heard. We're close with. Yes unfortunately yes unfortunately because he died in a plane crash yes he was he was he was a he was a very close friend of mine yes Booker t. Jones speaking to Terry Gross in 2007 more after a break this is Fresh Air. Colorado is brimming with opinions and interests are. The conclusions. For over 50. Has made you feel comfortable challenge. To our community and. Our story. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the I'm committed to building math success critical thinking and problem solving skills teaching students face to face and more than 1000 franchise locations. And from Western hotels and resorts offering a range of wellness options for guests including their well menu on demand fitness gear lending program and signature Heavenly Bed learn more at Weston dot com a member of Marriott bon voyage. This is Fresh Air Let's return to Terry's 2007 interview with Booker t. Jones leader of the landmark soul band Booker t. In the N.G.'s He's just published a new memoir titled Time is tight you wrote a song called Born Under a Bad Sign that I always thought was a much older song I mean it's such a kind of classic blues song. Around longer you want to tell us the story behind writing the song. Become a choir. Artist. I was assigned his to be his producer and so we needed music for him at that time my partner was William Bell my writing partner William wrote the words. And I wrote the music in my den that night that was that was one of the one of my greatest moments in the studio as far as. Being thrilled with a piece of music and I was very very happy with the way that turned out let me just so happy about it what would you be doing like a man I love the feeling of it you know if it's the real blues you know done by done by the real people. It was Albert King from East St Louis you know the left hand guitar player. Who it was just such a soft one of a kind and saw electric and so so intense and saw him so serious about his music and volves with his do it with the lyrics of the song you know he just lost himself in the music and it was such such a one of a kind character. We had written a song for a minute and we were doing it it was coming off and I was you know I was there personally in the in the middle of it so I was just exhilarating you know kind of hard to describe. Well I don't want to hear it this is Albert King recorded in 1967 and my guest is Booker t. Who's featured on this track. King from 1067 the song was co-written by my guest pianist and organ player Booker t. Who co-wrote that song no when when you were playing in at Stax Records or you're in Booker t. And the M.G.'s a near the house band and making your own records the South was still pretty segregated but but your band was comprised of African-American and white musicians detentions from did racial tensions from the outside world ever affect the band or do did you feel pretty well protected by that from the well we were we were insulated you know as most Southern social institutions are we were insulated. Because we had our little door there that we locked behind us at Stax and nobody knew what was going on in there oh we were. So we weren't affected until we became pretty famous around $67.00 or $68.00 after Dr King came to the city and. Dr King was murdered and a place that was very close to us he was murdered at the well rain hotel and that was our meeting place and that was a place where we ate very often so that affected us but in general we didn't have. Big racial issues there when you say the assassination affected you did it I mean imagine everybody in the band was was pretty upset about it did it did it cause anyone I mean imagine what I mean is yeah I brought outside attention to us and what we were doing there right the fact that we were in a racial I like to call it. A not too well kept secret that we were kind of racial . I think you know when we were playing music that nobody really cared that we were going away so I think they cared more about the music I think whites and blacks both. I didn't pay too much attention to the racial aspect of it did you feel there were times you needed to keep it kind of a secret absolutely the logistics of it demanded it you know we couldn't travel when we started without having 2 of us go get food and sometimes those 2 were myself and Allison times those 2 were Stephen Douglas the other 2 would have to check into hotels and register if you were white if you were black Exactly exactly so we always had to have we were always in somebody else's territory no matter where we were but Stephen duck and all of the white members of Stax began to love soul food and I think they preferred to hang out at our restaurants. So we just really didn't have a problem as long as the rest of the world would have a problem with us Booker t. Jones speaking to Terry Gross in 2007 more after a break this is Fresh Air. Thanks for tuning in for fresh air this evening I'm Ashley Jeffcoat. Fresh air on k.u.n.c. In supported by Peter Patten feed serving Northern Colorado for over 30 years reminding listeners that October means costume time and offering pet hollowing costumes size and fit consultations at all 6 locations more add to feed dot com. Fresh air continues next on k.u.n.c. . I'm tired by Morning Edition on. News gives you a broad view of everything you need to know from the Front Range the mountain communities. Here on n.p.r. News cover the agriculture education and so much more news is happening all over Colorado all the time and we make sure you know about. Our story. This is Fresh Air Let's return to Terry's 2007 interview with Booker t. Jones leader of the landmark soul band Booker t. In the N.G.'s his new memoir titled Time is Tight has just been published you left Stax Records in 1969. Which I think was the same year Stax was sold to. Did that have any. Part of the reason why you left left after stocks was sold to go with Weston because it was. Well not because it was Saul but because it changed because the owners had control and the owners were able to dictate how this company was run and so they did that they had every right to do that they had big companies and they knew what they were doing they had Paramount Pictures and they were very successful company and they decided that they wanted to change things in Memphis and so they did. The things they changed. Made it lose its. Appeal for me what were the changes they changed the outlook they they they made us. Feel of well very made us made a quota as far as how much music we produced. That was the 1st thing that really affected me because we were always able to have down you know drive periods where we just couldn't come up with anything when it just wasn't happening and so everybody would get tense and you know we would argue and we just absolutely had no music but then to come out of that we would come up with something great but often Western sent memos that caused us to change our production techniques to the to the fact that we have 3 bands going around the clock and and they wanted a certain number of albums at certain time period and so the the president and the vice president the you know the people who were running the company had to bring other producers in from other cities they brought in producers from Los Angeles and Detroit you know because they had to meet these quotas and it became a different company. So when you left did you leave on your own yes I did a left all by myself nobody came with me what was your life life like when you moved to Los Angeles well my life was. Unsafe uncertain for a while but then I found friends in California that rescued me. So I was able to survive out there your brother and how did your musical life change well as I said I found friends who were also. Somewhat nonconformists who who rescued me. I met clients a vet who at the time was one of the leading entrepreneurs African-American entrepreneurs in the music industry and he had a start up label that he was working with in California and he had this. God it was building airplane toilets in Englewood who had songs that he really loved his name was Bill weathers and the bill was building airplane toilets Absolutely absolutely and Clarence Clarence called up and sent Bill out to my ranch in Malibu and Bill came up with think about there with a little tablet full of papers of an old beat up guitar and started to sing songs and. He had some great songs in there so I was able to work with him and then to actually have this remember him yeah I don't realize that and I have friends that introduced me to Herb Alpert. During Moss. And they were they were starting a record label and that was a and m. Records Yeah so we had a relationship so I worked with them for a few years and. Ended up producing and arranging albums on the radio Coolidge and various people on their label and I actually ended up doing solo albums on a number because during that time. I was able to survive and you produced Willie Nelson's you know now classic Stardust album yes I hope. That that was one of the reasons why I think I made the right decision because it was because. I was able to . Work in some different genres that I wouldn't have been able to do it Stax Records stocks wanted to keep it pretty much Memphis all which was fine but stocks was not ever going to be I don't think a pop label or a country label so I don't think I would have been able to take Willie Nelson there or Earl Klute I don't think we would have been able to do jazz there and your tastes are so wide ranging you want it well yes you want to work in a and when a wide ranging way yes is one of my greatest disadvantages liking so much so many different kinds of music. Can I ask you about your name I'm named after my father was Booker t. Jones Sr and he was named after Booker t. Washington and the name is Booker Tallia fellow and how did you end up like dropping the Jones from the professional part of your name because it's like Booker t. And the M.G.'s Well yeah the band needed a name when we recorded Green Onions back from a drummer you know it was you know what a little bit of what we call in the civil Booker t. And the. And this came up with him geez. There was a little this guy this engineer on the song Chips Moman was driving a little British Leyland sports cars called an mc I don't know if you've ever seen those and he had a park outside he used to do tricks with everything in the snow you know so they looked out the won the Booker t. In the am geez. It's been great to talk with you thank you so much for talking with us and go thank you for having me Terry Booker t. Jones speaking to Terry Gross in 2007 he's just published a memoir called Time is tight and Monday shell. Out a lot. Of data getting the ball like our guest will be Dan pipe and bring home the singer plans had selected to help him write his autobiography. But shortly after they began working together prince died piping brings new book The beautiful ones includes the pages Prince had written about his childhood adolescence and sexual awakening as well as pipe and brings personal essay about working with Prince and a collection of princes letters photos and lyric sheets hope you can join us pressures executive producer is Danny Miller our producer today was Sam Briggs our technical director and engineer is on some with additional engineering support from Joyce Lieberman and Julian Hertz from. Our associate producer for digital media is Molly c Venus for. Sure rock Drexler shots for Terry Gross I'm David. 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