Transcripts for KUNC 91.5 FM/KENC 90.7 FM/KVNC 90.9 FM/KRNC 88.5 FM/K210AY 89.9 FM/K220JN 91.9 FM/K259AC 99.7 FM/K213EJ 90.5 FM/K206BD 89.1 FM/K219DX 91.7 FM/K212FN 90.3 FM/K267CM 101.3 FM/K228DL 93.5 FM/K202EK 88.3 FM KUNC 91.5 FM/KENC 90.7 FM/KVNC 90.9 FM/KRNC 88.5 FM/K210AY 89.9 FM/K220JN 91.9 FM/K259AC 99.7 FM/K213EJ 90.5 FM/K206BD 89.1 FM/K219DX 91.7 FM/K212FN 90.3 FM/K267CM 101.3 FM/K228DL 93.5 FM/K202EK 88.3 FM 20191017 070000

The true it wouldn't always rated really excited I just felt thankful for that job done since game finished crab relative pitch the amateur guy was always very close to the spectators you know we've been hugged by the crowd as we walk off of the pitch that's a lasting memory gonna get celebrated that night and into Sunday but remarkably he was back at work as a policeman on Monday an example of rugby's true amateur status in all he would play 41 times for the All Blacks never losing and was voted international player of the Year in 1990 that same year he moved back to England to play in the professional sports of rugby league loved to have straight in my opinion play professional. 25 and my profile was getting higher and higher but my income wasn't reflected in my profile it was a white cup call for world rugby rugby union would only give up its amateurs status in 1995 John Gallagher speaking to me it Williams for this episode of sporting this is k.u.n.c. 91.5 really Fort Collins k d n c 90.9 Minturn Vale k n p d 90.7 Breckenridge k e n c 90.7 s. Just park and k r n c 88.5 Steamboat Springs. This is Ari Shapiro from all things considered is that old car in your driveway no longer sparking joy free up some precious real estate in your life by donating. The proceeds will benefit the programs you love. To get started just visit k.q. n C dot org today. This is the Colorado. Un sees sister station at $105.00 Colorado sassed. This is news day from the b.b.c. World Service. Is in Brussels force. Boris Johnson has. Just. Reached. Turkey from Middle East to. The u.s. Vice president. Trying to. Continue his offensive. In the Sandy Hook school shooting. You have to prove that his son. Proved that his son actually died. On the way. News with soon on Comrie just does the for the British prime minister bars Johnson is expected in Brussels for a crucial summit of the e.u. Leaders efforts to secure a Brecht's that deal acceptable to Parliament in London have hit a snag Democratic Unionist M.P.'s from Northern Ireland who support would be crucial for parliamentary approval say they will not support an agreement that stuns Norman Smith reports the decision by the d u p to reject Mr Johnson's deal is a shattering blow for the prime minister and comes despite hours of talks with the party's leader Arlene Foster Not only would it seem to scupper the Prime Minister's prospects of securing a deal in Brussels today but it also suggests he would be unable to win any subsequent votes in the Commons on Saturday more details have emerged of what has been agreed to with the latest from Brussels Here's that in Fleming Northern Ireland would remain in the u.k. Customs territory but would apply e.u. Customs processes all goods coming from Great Britain although the u.k. And e.u. Would agree exemptions for some things it would be underpinned by a consent mechanism for the storm and assembly it could vote in 2024 at the earliest to end the arrangements which would trigger a 2 year period to find alternative ways to protect the peace process and avoid a hard border if a simple majority agreed then another vote would be held in 4 years if there was cross community support that would be extended to 8 years the u.s. Vice president Mike Pence and the secretary of state Mike pump am traveling to encourage Turkey to end its military offensive against the Syrian Kurds Barbara is on the Takesh Syrian border with the latest I'm across the border from a town called Reza line which is one of the main points of conflict and it's near the center of the border security zone that Mr at one wants to set up and it's where most of the fight. It has been taking place we're hearing gunfire and artillery fire this morning and we've also had local reports of an air bombardment in a village nearby yesterday when we were here the place was heavily attacked and the Kurds are fighting back they're using a defensive network of tunnels to push back on the Turkish assault in this area and the Russian media is reporting that a group of Syrian army troops have entered rocker for the 1st time in 5 years although local contact in Iraq a deny that but that's jarring to say the least for those troops the u.s. And Kurdish troops who fought there heavily to dislodge ISIS police in the Spanish region of Catalonia say they were attacked with petrol bombs and dassent during a sad night of violence that preaches protests in Boston rioters set fire to cars and fought running battles with police at least 20 people were arrested the pro independence leader of Catalonia King Tara has condemned the violence saying it was damaging the separatist cause b.b.c. News. Saudi state media say 35 foreign pilgrims were killed when their bus collided with another heavy vehicle near the holy city of pictures show the double decker bus engulfed in flames with its windows blown out the passengers were from Arab countries. A government report into New Zealand's marine environment says climate change pollution and fishing are causing potentially irreversible damage to the country's coastline and ocean ecosystems Thelma's there are reports New Zealand's own coastline that stretches for about 15000 kilometers is under increasing pressure from development shipping and climate change the ministry for the environment's report states that 90 percent of the country's sea birds and around a quarter of its marine mammals are threatened with extinction if found sea levels were rising faster than before along with water temperatures there's a warning to that New Zealand can expect more frequent Marine heat waves and ocean acidification former s.s. Guard as a Nazi concentration camp is due to go on trial in Germany in what's likely to be one of the last criminal trials over the Holocaust Bernard day $93.00 is accused of being an accessory to the murder of more than $5000.00 people most of them Jews prosecutors argue that by stopping people from escaping guards played a crucial role in the mass killings that took place then. The American boxer Patrick Day has died 4 days after he suffered a brain injury in a fight in Chicago the 27 year old was put into a coma after he was not out by Charles Conwell in the 10th round of their super welterweight fight banked in July the Russian banks and. The Argentine both died after fights. For the latest the city's new safeguards in London dubious standing by. With the updated also here on the program we heard from the by the Turkish Syrian border people fleeing the fighting there now we're going to hear from Turkey and a big diplomatic push by American business looks at the money you can make by running trains between London and Europe carrying b.b.c. Journalists to Brussels to work about Bridget Matthew can you hear. Of a man who want to prove that his son had actually been alive and then killed in a court case of the Sandy Hook massacre extraordinary story on the way here on New Year's Day. In Brussels where it is brighter than yesterday I don't know how it is back in London Lawrence. Mostly. A bit like the mood of a break. Well it was raining hard yesterday when we came in but it's good up today the sun is not out but at least I can see a blue sky. Because that is the e.u. Summit just a few streets from this cafe where I'm sitting with now dozens of people already some people working off their laptops others having coffee some having well just nothing I guess conversation and which is what you've got to now you'll meet along with one of the 3 any from the Northern Island and of course not the island is so doing this whole sick negotiation which has now been going on for 3 years seems to be at the moment and we are waiting to see if an agreement is actually discussed in the summit which is due to begin in a few hours from now and then of course if that is only going to happen so many if so many if. That's only if. It seems that the Irish. Are happy with. The deal. With Prime Minister Johnson and. From one of the parties pretty much putting us in the book. Well I think there are a couple of things I mean 1st of all the day you don't represent the majority of people in Northern Ireland when it comes to. Needs to be remembered. In this reliant on the meds for the party. So in order to get the state through parliament votes. In terms of opinion in Northern Ireland the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain in the e.u. And the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want. Why why if I may ask why is that so important Well I think there are 3 reasons I think the 1st is that our Good Friday Agreement. Northern Ireland 40 years of. Really predicated on. Either want to come to gather work together with the. Border is not just an economic interest for us it is actually a contested border on the island and so it's important that anything that comes. Harder than it is at the moment infrastructure. Because that was the source of major contention period of the troubles. In the 2nd reason is that so much of our economy is actually cross the island of Ireland So for example our sector. 34 times before it finally makes it to export. 30 or 40 percent of the. Northern Ireland. Or. So the 3rd reason is because there is. Resistance to brag. People want to remain and so any sense that brags it will affect business will affect will affect. The board or anything that interferes with. Pressure on the union. For a. Northern Ireland. I think. So for those 3 reasons it's really important that we are able to protect our businesses protect. Northern Ireland. Is crucial to do that because any transition period. That might exist the point where we. What we do know that the prime minister has said do or die to exit from the European Union. Well I mean even that kind of language isn't helpful mean he said he would rather die in a Dench I mean people in Northern Ireland for years did find their relatives stead and ditches it was a completely and for the prime minister to make and I think. Insensitive at times the Westminster government. This is not a trivial there are threats of violence and Republicans as a result of that and that sides of the argument we need to ensure that our peace and stability is protected that is the 1st and primary responsibility of any government and so. It's a responsibility to deliver. That. Responsibility to ensure that see if I'm secure and Northern Ireland are not means protecting the Good Friday Agreement and we will know as the day varies on whether he's able to address all that long alliance and be from Northern Ireland just now we'll be talking about this more in the program. The program 12 minutes past the hour now this remarkable story from America involving the aftermath of the $2812.00 shooting at Sandy Hook a u.s. Jury has awarded $450000.00 the father of one of the boys killed in the massacre but is in a defamation lawsuit against a conspiracy theorist Michael James Fetzer wrote a book or co-wrote a book nobody died at Sandy Hook and in it he claims that Leonard Posner the father had fabricated the death certificate of his son Noah and this is just one example of the conspiracy theories that surround one of the most high profile American gun massacres that sold 20 children shot dead broadly the claim of the conspiracy theorist is that it was all put on by the government staged in order to discredit gun ownership and limit the constitutional right to bear arms the kind of stuff being ventilated on air on talk radio and in some books Sadly it's also ended up leading to a lot of abuse and harassment of parents grieving their children Lenard Pozner was the father he's won the case we found out from his lawyer Jake Zimmerman what he had to do to win it the book is called nobody died at Sandy Hook and the idea of the book is in this group tasked tale that Sandy Hook was a government operation designed to support a policy change that would take away the right of Americans to own a gun and the elaborate background of this the hopes nurses the kind of thing that we've heard surrounding this issue this was just part of a bigger sort of echo chamber just describe that for us a bit yeah I think that's exactly right there is a small but relatively active group of people that believe that the United States government is operating against their interests and they're going to stand up to it and ensure that primarily their gun rights won't be impacted and what did you have to prove in court because surely the. Has a right to say what he wants this is freedom of speech hugely important issue in America under the Constitution how do you navigate around that one that's exactly right in the United States you have a 1st Amendment right to free speech but defamation does not have any protection under the 1st Amendment and state's constitution so our obligation was to show that Dr fencer speech wasn't on the safe side of a line it instead crossed over into an area of speech that enjoys no constitutional protection we had to show that the statements were false and that they were the type of statements that tend to injure a person's reputation Dr Fetzer argued that my client uploaded a forged or fake death certificate for his son so we had to prove that the death certificate that he uploaded was not fake or forged or fabricated in fact Of course it was and he obtained it from the state of Connecticut from the clerk's office in the state of Connecticut it was a real document to make that proof we had to 1st show that his son Noah was a real boy he was actually born he actually lived and he actually died and we went through a number of steps to get there we actually performed 2 rounds of d.n.a. Testing from tissue samples blood samples that were obtained by the coroner's office during Noah Pozner Zz post-mortem examination tested those against his father Leonard Posner in order to demonstrate that Leonard Pozner had a son we introduced pages and pages of evidence of Monday in things medical records showing that there was a boy named Noah Pozner Sandy Hook Connecticut and so we were able to build a story to demonstrate that Noah actually lived and that he actually died and that supported the inference that the death certificate was a genuine document what was it like to just give us an idea I mean you're a lawyer and you're speaking very dispassionately but what was it like for Mr Posner going through this having to prove that is some of his son and I mean to prove that his son of being killed it's just as horrible as you. Believe it would be going to court to prove that your boy was actually a real person and that he actually was murdered is incredibly difficult everything about litigation like this is incredibly difficult Mr Pazner had to talk about how hard it was to kiss his son goodbye one last time before he had to bury his son and he had to do it in front of a room full of complete strangers does this case have any implications for protecting people in the 6 jewelry situation going forward I think it does indeed does that because it sends a message to this entire hoax or community that we saw was a Wisconsin jury speaking to the level of damage that a relatively small player like Fetzer has done but soon a Texas jury is going to speak to the level of damage done to Mr ponder and to others by Alex Jones and Info Wars and they copy statements from relatively obscure people like Fetzer spread them online and make money on a massive scale we certainly hope that this will influence people like Setser or others to not go after victims and choose to injure people who were already subjected to the worst possible thing you can imagine as a parent Jake Cinnamon the lawyer for Leonard Posner speaking to us from coal. This is news from the b.b.c. World Service now we are going to bring you a just a couple of headlines just a reminder u.s. Vice president might Penson the secretary of state my pump aoe the traveling to Ankara to work urge Turkey to end its military offensive against the Syrian Kurds and also hopes of a last minute breaks it breaks through before the e.u. Summit being dented by objections from the Northern Ireland party the props up the British government more on that from Divya from outside broadcast in Brussels in about 10 minutes time so stay tuned for that Matthew can interfere with the sport and the death of the boxer Patrick de has been called a call to action by his promoter Lou to Bella was speaking in a statement after the fighter at just 27 years old passed away. On Wednesday night he'd been in a coma since being knocked out during a bout in Chicago on Saturday developer said the fighter chose to box knowing the inherent risks that every boxer face but his statement goes on it becomes very difficult to explain away or justify the dangers of boxing at a time like this develop said he didn't have any answers but we certainly know many of the questions and that will be a discussion very much for the coming days and weeks for the sport remember 2 other boxers rushers Maxime down a Chevon Argentinian who goes Santi and died earlier on this year following injuries sustained cheering their fights statement also of course paid tribute to the fighter Pat kindness positivity and generosity of spirit made a lasting impression with everyone he met he said more in sport today at 1830 g.m.t. And on the b.b.c. Sport website 19 minutes past the hour the magic of radio going to whiz you to Brussels in about 5 minutes or so if you don't have the magic of radio you might have to use Eurostar high speed rail operator a lot of people are it seems to be doing quite well Davis is here so what are. Its latest figures that well do you actually know that this service through the Channel Tunnel has been running for 25 years now yes right how time flies but you're a star had it's busy busiest ever August carrying more than a 1000000 passengers and revenue in the 3 months to the end of September is up 3 percent and while it currently whisks passengers to the likes of Brussels and Paris it could be a tie up with another high speed operator which could open up direct routes to several German cities and southwest France but of course the worry at the moment is what effect bricks it will have on your Istar services particularly and no deal breaks it but you're a star's chief executive Mike Cooper has told the b.b.c. That come what May the trains will still run we continue to zoom with between London and Brussels in London Paris and London Amsterdam those as well we will continue to do so as well Rick regardless of the outcome of political negotiations that we hear about at the moment in the face of a no deal we now have adequate licenses in place so to Dyson says operating certificates we've now got assurance in terms of cross border travel for for our crews the use of a gate critical and a degree has been passed in front is being tossed by the European Commission and that will ensure sort of good movement of customers in a continuing great experience through through the stations as well so we are in the best possible position that we can be but that's clearly an air of uncertainty an air of uncertainty surrounding Brecht's it surely knots that was my Cooper the chief executive officer your astonished thanks indeed Davis with the business and we're going to be going to Brussels in just a moment talking breaks it but one of the big stories that we've been covering all day is the visit by the u.s. Vice president Mike Pence and the secretary of state Mike Pompei o as well are they going to meet in a few hours time with the Turkish president or is. One in Ankara they're expected to call for an end to Turkish military operations in northern Syria or face economic sanctions little earlier in the program we were hearing from the zone being contested we're being told by a journalist there on the ground people of all backgrounds fleeing the Turkish advance in that Beria area of northern Syria the B.B.C.'s Middle East editor is following events closely he's in Ankara and Jeremy thank you very much indeed for joining us is the visit of pens in Pompei or it could be seen Couldn't it as closing the stable door after the horse has bolted Well that's certainly what prominent Republicans like Mitt Romney in Washington has said that yeah absolutely the Americans Trump actually took the decision to pull out their troops he denies it greenlighted the Turkish incursion but whether he did or whether it didn't the whole thing the 2 things happened in conjunction with each other now all this is happening the whole strategic situation the war map of Syria has changed markedly in the course of the little over a week and once more. People there civilians. In a terrible state and their torture which has been going on since 2011 continues Yeah I mean sending big guns like pence and Pompei you know it's sort of implies that it's caused a mess that needs a lot of clearing up the present day that's not the message coming from America what what what message are they going to bring to President Ed one well assuming they say the same kinds of thing as things as Trump what they'll be saying is we're trying to said is I've already imposed economic sanctions on you listen guys this is just a taste of what you might be getting I could wreck the Turkish economy in an extraordinary letter to Along those lines has been released where he's uses all sorts of language like you know don't be a fool don't play the tough guy I'm going to call you about this you think he thinks he can do the deal but on the other side of things there is president over one of Turkey and man who has risen from you know very poor background to being the supreme leader if you like of this country and he's a man who has told his people that what they're doing what he's doing what the armed forces are doing who are incidentally glorified in the country is legitimate is defending them is fighting terrorism and it's something that he's wanted to do for a while and as soon as those troops of the Americans left he started doing it so I don't think one is going to say to parents and you know what I was wrong about this I'm going to change my mind of the guys I don't think I'll do it big trouble for NATO as well of course because everyone supposed to be on the same side now you've been writing for The News website extensively about this redrawing of the balance of power particularly in that area but more widely do we actually know for example what the Syrian government forces are doing with the Kurds with the Turks just a matter of miles away what kind of who's in charge on the ground. It isn't clear the Kurds I've spoken to I was in northern Iraq speaking to Kurds and. I've spoken to senior Kurdish sources saying that they have a limited agreement with the regime they had to do it because they didn't have a choice the regime. This man was telling me we're deal with various issues on the border but the Kurds will continue fighting. Against the incursions of the Turks so. If one side is giving the other one orders but the back by the Russians the regime is powerful. So there's that and one thing that has really changed in the last few years in the region and this is. In the last week as they as underlined 10 times is the position of Russia Moscow President Putin as the Americans have retreated they've advanced under Obama as well as and Trump and I think what we're seeing now is possibly an opportunity for Putin to make himself the guy who tries to sort this out right Many many thanks indeed as ever the B.B.C.'s Middle East Germany joining us this time on the line from Ankara. In Brussels it's coming to half past 9 things getting really busy in the. Sitting in just a few streets away from the European Council building where we're hoping that the e.u. Summit will start in a few allas news lines coming in thick and fast now. E.u. Diplomat has just told to Adler Europe editor that they are more and more pessimistic she has tweeted that each of those representing leaders in Brussels expected to receive draft new Rex a text this morning so as to be able to read with legal experts in. Before leaders discussed but they've not received the text I'm joined here in this cafe by me along one of 3 m. e P's which is members of European Parliament from Northern Ireland since the picture is looking bleak now what happens if there is no deal what is it what's it going to be. Mike on the streets of Northern Ireland Well I think 1st of all it's very difficult to predict because our lives are so intertwined with the European Union we rely on it for security through the European arrest warrant we rely on it for our ability to treat. Rely on it for our ability to travel and to be able to do business and live our lives so it's very difficult to imagine what it will be like if there is no transition period allied by an agreement but we have some protections from the Northern Ireland civil service so these are not political groups this is the actual civil service have to deal with preparation for Greggs that they have projected around $40000.00 jobs could be lost in Northern Ireland and in fairly short time that many farmers would go out of business because that I'm able to process and and so it is quite a bleak economic picture in Northern Ireland and politically a 2nd referendum and an election what are you thinking Well I mean I think Boris Johnson has made the mistake of getting himself reliant on the d.v.d. For a day and I think that's always a mistake because they don't want to take ownership of any day because then if it doesn't go away they will get they will get attacked from us so I think he would be much better frankly to get his data into the bastards. Get the extension that the e.u. Has offered and then go to the people with a date for the people the choice whether they want this this Gregg's a date or not because in the referendum people were offered all sorts of unicorn and that we were going to get the easiest possible we're getting here is a bit of a donkey of a day but it's possibly the best we can get I do think Bill when you offer people one thing and deliver them another you should get a new opportunity I did accept it or reject it well unicorn and donkey that's going to stay with me as I go through this day here in Brussels and I am a long one of the 3 any peace from all that island thank you so much for joining us here this is all on news David Lawrence in London but and me in Brussels with keep listening to World Service radio when you can as updates will continue from here in Brussels as we inch closer to the big ears something. Distribution of b.b.c. World Service in the u.s. Is supported by Team Rowe Price offering a strategic investing approach that examines opportunities 1st hand since 1937 price invest with confidence and Progressive Insurance small business protection for more than vehicles with insurance expertise to keep your company moving forward more at progressive commercial dot com. Human animals co-exist in life as they do in poetry with poetry you'll be able to jump off line so when you get to the edge of your own experience you know the neighborhood I think through the sort of sound leaps that in turn makes to jump beyond that Joining me. Dominion an exploration of the human attitude to animals in this week's compass coming up. On the b.b.c. World Service. B.b.c. News just hours before the British prime minister Boris Johnson is due in Brussels for a crucial summit of the e.u. Leaders efforts to secure a Brecht deal acceptable to Parliament in London have hit a snag Democratic Unionist M.P.'s from Northern Ireland say they won't agree to the deal as it stands British and the e.u. Negotiators worked late into the night and Wednesday to haue more out the details in the hope of signing off on a break that deal at the summit later today. The Us vice president Mike Pence and the secretary of state Mike compare who are on their way to the Turkish capital Lanka to urge President had around to end his military offensive against the Syrian Kurds they're expected to meet Mr Dylan who says he's determined to carve out a security zone in northeast Syria despite American sanctions police in the Spanish region of Catalonia say they were attacked with petrol bombs and acid during a 3rd night of violence separatist protests in Barcelona the pro independence leader of Catalonia Kim Dora has condemned the violence. Kong's Legislative Council has been suspended for a 2nd day after proto moccasin lawmakers again had called the chief executive carry rowdy opposition members caused chaos in the chamber. Was about to take questions about her new policy speech Saturday state media say 35 foreign pilgrims have been killed when their bus collided with another heavy vehicle near the holy city of Medina pictures show the bass engulfed in flames a New Zealand government report into its marine environment says pollution from pollution fishing and climate change are causing potentially irreversible damage to the country's ocean ecosystems is there's 90 percent of its native sea birds and drowned a quarter of its marine mammals are at risk of extinction b.b.c. News. Thank you. Then the intermediate term She craned 10 net so. The ts wheelings here because this is kept only structured to take a test be. Prepared 10 days prior to the Web send close hopeless fantasy strength in the ring. For centuries poets have been inspired to write. And in the voices of animals. And the stiff twig of their chairs and when. Arranging them rearranging it that is in the writing and suddenly there are back again and there's ever as a 1st in your freshman. Printing the story. We can. Tell this piste. Opponents in the British team don't need to start to receive each to look back at any browser I would believe the dryland she's the 11 didn't ask you how many of the oldest surviving poems depict animals. Think of Grendel the beast in the Anglo-Saxon poem off about 2000 years to the bull of heaven in the ancient Mesopotamia Gilgamesh. I want to find out why we turn to poetry to fill the space between human and non-human animal life and why I have avoided writing animals and. They have been in my life. From Lucy whispering Espanol who killed my feral dogs to the venomous snake slithered into our living room for me and I was frank. Thanks this is Thanks right there insisted they told page of the salt mom still looking south right over the Solway 4th and just make out the pics of the Lake District fells sister so. Brian morale is sentimental just a collaborative one center and this is it's fantastic that harbor towers and here we also want to exalt Mars it's a very rare habitat left in this country now and it's absolutely crucial for these wenching barnacle geese are coming from the Arctic to spend the winter here and will just head over into the very edge of the marsh and get the full part of around a kilometer masses. To answer some of my questions about poetry and animals I went walking through wetland area in southern Scotland a space with fluid boundaries a place of communion between the human body and the natural. Sometimes we found a door in a field which shunted into the stream then follow with branches poking its sideways hoping it wouldn't wedge between banks when it stuck we damn each other to staff. So I was sure it would swing open under me as dogs did when I lent against them listening and pitch me through to the kingdom of sentiment. But it's a joke I'm poly who grew up on the English side of the subway is fascinated by the thresholds between one world and another. I was drawn by sticklebacks through overflow pipes picking on the accents of the current as I babble down arterial byways I found my new tongue could run around anything. As being an influx of Painted Lady butterfly some of these butterflies may have been north and the south easterly winds of hard coming up from the continent in the last few weeks just talk a bit about this migrating thousands of miles which I think about to fly can come hundreds of miles from the continent across the nation test. A war of words. Holding on to the rushes just there's just this song there says well it was a fantastic little blood that comes all the way up from a winter spent an officer and you can hear them running about it off and just call it soul full of whistles and positions likes. This it says America as. The cries of mothers in the House can shut. Themselves into dark forests this day I live. In Zimbabwe often exploits human migration but in the parm did when she she focuses on the follows a similar flight path to the said. The Poles in the hives of ever growing city. Over the home of generate is in case of sudden power cuts. The for. McMullen he's still scarred with leftover pain in the bread just rolls and broken by the weight of the beaten up in rolling maize fields over the last year of kids playing football more interesting. Everything which exists under this covers trail from Cairo. Through the journey of a typically weighs just 17 grams story is told. Literature professor recently published poetry and animals blurring the boundaries with the human in which he makes the case for poetry as a way to bring human and non-human animals closer to each other probably more people are moved to think about animals in other ways through documentary films by going to zoo by watching t.v. Than by reading poetry so this is a kind of a rarefied medium to be thinking about the impact of a medium on animals to me it's really important that good poems open animals up too far for us and allow us to make our own discoveries it's so hard to persuade anybody of any age and people have to be led there by themselves and poetry is a great way to do that I think. Joining Bryan and me with some soul in a scholar of contemporary poetry and its relationship to nature and Isabel Gallimore a poet and scholar of his work pays close attention to the lives of smaller animals . One way of thinking about poetry and take a deep arch about soundscape or part about animals is that it's a different mode of attention and that's what's hard to just really well it can tell us to kind of taken this radiant landscape but it can also help to spike us on this tiny little detail that we might have missed. It want to ask you what is it like to try and so I'm like happening in order to write the question and I always try and get into the place in which the I was living I think so that's how it's an American poet called Knight a has a rules that if he hasn't seen an animal fast time and old gent and all and he can write about it I kind of understand that principals say when I was in Cornwall I was on a residency a couple years ago that's been a lot of time just crouching over rock pools shall you have sensibly and that's I mean I'm not sure if I could say it's an out of body experience it's likely that you're so involved in what you're seeing and trying to take notes. And really gets a grip of what this creature is that it doesn't really feel like yourself quite anymore. Brian I'm wondering since you have such. Affinity and relationship with this place whether there's some parts of it you can describe to us that you might miss as you're walking through because I suppose there's the obvious aspects of some of the birds you might see the nest thing and so on but what about the other kinds of biodiversity and wildlife to put it that way yeah there's quite a few things you have to live quite a bit closer in and particularly as under the water we can see these ponds that we're walking past just. Looking out and you can maybe see some phone skaters a water beetles on the top but it's not until you get in it and you do have a pond dipping and there's a huge fire density and there's everything from microorganisms too small for shoes and things like that Israel's is a fantastic world underneath the surface in a way and it's particularly an appalling bias with some. Limpets. Across the Rockpool flaw a limp it grazes straight magicians Cup mean texture to the shape of lights pointing to a frosted glass he says I'm not just party hats in which something like a head resides oblivious as this dog well pads against the thick still brine and Kleins upon the Olympics and ornate seat upon an elephant carnivorous smallest tiny fraction rake clocking in with its trail tongue clutching as the Olympics rises from the stone to become healthy mushroom half bucking bronco. In Isabel's power I have what primes can do they place a frame around a moment's drawing attention to something that seems insignificant this idea of a parm is a frame prompted me to talk to the power. It. Connects to. Your composition which is that it's my body in one sense it's informed. By who me I just get more and more devoted to things that exist so. The weight and the light that you it's kind of evaporation fascinate me I'm just in the city trying to sort of disappear so that I can see will create me you know how to relate to my. Tree and trees. Trees I think poetry for me is the means by which I can explore the area at the very edge of my mind so with prose I can go up to that kind of horizon by taking 10 steps with poetry you'll able to jump so when you get to the edge of your own experience you are then able I think through the sort of sound leaps that a poem makes to jump beyond that and for me that's why and really investigate animal lives and plant lives because I know that's what I don't. Think particularly good at expressing what you don't know rather than you do. With Brian is about. It we also Brian like well I mean I know that sometimes when I thinking about field guides to you know the voice of the cool of the but is abbreviated of secular way and sometimes they're quite funny and sometimes they're quite plain and if that useful or if you kind of have to make up your own descriptions for the song that's make this sort of classic one that we hear a lot growing the vote here is the. Most coal is a little bit of bread and no cheese. So to mimic as well which is quite a fascinating thing as well we do a starling that could do a really. Possible cause a live in person nation thing they do all of us have songs and they can then they can have a thing as why. Can't people overlook stylings equipment if we do something meaningful . For a while now I've been preoccupied with the difficulties of writing about an animal instead I want in the words of David had not to write about it but to write. The rhythm and hold something of an animal essence so I always have this idea that everything has a kind of secret to achieving and that that's really what you're listening for not the superficial qualities of an animal but some kind of rhythm that expresses an exacting and I think Ted He's very good at that I think that he got to reach me base exact about it encroaches pike it was something just so strong about the rhythms of it from the archive the power it Ted Hughes remembers writing. I used to be a very keen angler for pike as I still am when I get the chance and I did most of my early fishing in a quite small lake really a large pool. Recently I felt like doing some pike fishing but in circumstances where there was no chance of it and over the days as I remember the extreme pleasures of the sport bits of the following point began to arrive by looking at the place in my memory very high and very carefully and by using the words that grew next year a layout of the pictures and feelings I captured not just the park I captured the whole. Including the Munsters I never even hope here is the. Which I call pike. 3 inches long. Perfect pike you know green Tiger ring with who was from the egg the malevolent grin the dumb son the sofas among the fly. Or move by the room. Over of bed of emerald silhouette of submarine delicacy and horror 100 feet long and. So far we've been concerned with a non-human animal as viewed from a human perspective but what happens when a human being is seen as not or less than human the poet and scholar Joshua Bennett is interested in this friction then and how opportunities for freedom can be found in solidarity with animals this idea that there's this real division between sort of black folks in the world and the world where denied that we can see but there's always this sort of partition between us and this other world and it just sort of struck me that there are all these creatures all these forms of life that are said to be nothing to have no souls no interior no desire to live much like me and I think I knew this even when I was quite young and it just struck me that that was wrong that was impossible and that the and possibility of that was an impetus for me to act and to write and to think and live differently in solidarity with the non-human world and to say that we live in pursuit of the abundant life and stewardship of the planet we're here to care for the planet and care for each other so that's become one of my primary goals from here and then there's a poem in my 1st book which is essentially. One my relationship to non-human animal life but also my way of thinking about the relationship between poverty and mortality I guess I can read that. Self Portrait as a pair of Americana. Unnatural nasty and limits of Mer latch key kid lyric condition of possibility light years before Black song seat and or creep over crooked pew of glass teeth both mainstream science in neighborhood lower afford me life after aftermath is after thought I am always forefront of family fight. Over supper 5 nights out of 7 on a good week the past and pestilence the silence to my nondescript taunting be quiet as a fist and damn near immortal and then some kind of perverse irony or ubiquity in this crumbling kitchenette the sheer pluck of indestructible overmen eon is older than the human eye it's a relevant contempt identifying with insects exposes us to the communal ingenuity consider the way fire ants form a waterproof mass when submerged in water we're still trying to learn how to harness the kind of into dependence. Is also interested in insect life. Might be interesting to read flies part because we're sitting in a chair for the dead flies and probably talk about insects but insects are really important species to me because of the way they're between the flower and the animal and I love the fact that their voices are made by the hands of my hand way things nicely so they don't express their internal world through their mouths they discover the external world through their wings and that again is what I want my poems to so this is a town called flies. This is the day the Flies fall awake mid-sentence and lie stand on the windowsill shaking with speeches. Only it isn't speech it is trending sections of puzzlement which break off suddenly as if the question I have been shelled. This is one of those wordy days when they drop from that winter quarters in the curtains and sizzle as they fall feeling like oh the cigarette butts cool back to life blown from the surface of some world. And somehow their wings which is little more than flakes of dead skin have carried them to this blackened disembodied question. What should we visit today what shall we visit they live faces to the past and walk about a bit trying a broken machines coming back with their used up. There is such a horrible trap to buzzing wherever we fly it's going to be impossible to think clearly now until next winter what should we what should we. As a fly speech often stops midsentence encounters with animals can stop time on a elements when I was 12 or 13 we used to go out on our frozen lake and how it was and they would howl back at us and the electricity of that moment stays with you forever. The sudden uncannily moving thing to feel like you're communicating somehow with a wild animal who responds and you know I mean I think back to that moment fairly frequently as the beginning of my fascination with animals. Elizabeth Richards poem The moose but a bus trip the girl who is going from her grandmother's home back to her mother her family's home her parents' home from Nova Scotia to Massachusetts and the bus trip it's very subtle problem in which you feel they're all the stresses of a child going on this long trip from one family home to another not knowing what this means and the trip is interrupted by a moose on the road at night and the poem ends with this is a climactic moment and the poet says how miraculous it is that everybody feels this joy of encountering this animal. Suddenly the bus driver stops with a jolt turns off his lights and this has come out of the impenetrable wood and stands there looms rather in the middle of the round. At the bus is hot. Taking her time she looks the bus over. And. Otherworldly. Why why do we feel we all feel this sweet sensation of July. 6th if so fielder. There's a Skylab slash they have and it's almost it's his and it's the species as in decline but it's what we're known as it's where our name comes from off of the log falafel. It's just lovely to hear them saying. Some Solomons. To take off in a slightly different direction but this question that we're circling around here is one is he can speak for the animal and one the difficulty of speaking as the animal or incorporating that kind of on and off to pick done and share an old song Don't mention into the park tree and it struck me that it's quite interesting that if you think of that that it's nice to société with poetry as kind of news or inspiration the nightingale that's also is associated mythologically with the inability to speak right so the nicest famous poetic story about the nightingale comes from of it the story of phenomena who has her tongue tossed out so she can't speak of how to fire and as she is chased by her sister's lover the wicked king she's transformed into a knight in Gal and this becomes the symbol for poetry in a bunch of writers. And in that world writing is another tricky aspect of the enterprise rising is outside the body and it's a technology of absence we write so that our words can travel where our bodies cannot but surely poetry must exist in the body the animal part of us these ideas fed into my conversation with Alice Oswald. Do you feel this form is connected to the other movement quality in human beings because I suppose what separates us from other animals is everything that's in line with the technology of the book. Everything that's about consolidating info and making it not terminal where is everything around them was very instinctual level subject to change provisional Yeah I think that has been my working model is that one needs as far as possible not to have this kind of mediating the book has become. Not only am I searching for life forms that don't have that but I'm also discovering that actually the mind seems to have these letters which you can sort of think yourself down to that predicts that animal level I think I noticed in that when I stopped being Ok when I left your house you became a gardener I did notice that my senses became just much brighter so I actually think I've experienced the difference between immersing yourself in paper all the time and being in a landscape. Arrow of the various poets that came up in the course of making this program there was one poet whose name is a reference point for animal. Errors and animals. From Bats are elephants a rare your area you know way. I'm really interested in the Australian pilots Laurie his coach a Texan I think came out in the 1900 call translations from the natural world is about getting more and in that collection he tries to take on the voice of various different animals so he takes on the voice of a shoulder fish he takes on a voice of collection of Paix he takes on the voice of a pair of eagles and was really into about puns that they're not really readable I mean they're really enjoyable but they're not really in English or in a language that we can understand so the grammar is warped the punctuation is sometimes I exist and the syntax is pretty strange and I think in that way he's trying to replicate something of the animal but will say the separateness of us and the inability to read for his eyes and animal language or to understand it elephant saw the opposite of bats in many ways and how one otherwise is that. A lot of their communication takes place below the range of our hearing and I wrote this poem called The Octavia elephant bull elephants we're not weeping you need wonder soberly I learned only females congregate and talk in a seismic baritone Dorn and sundown we all know you Jova Brahm who allow us to intone our ground by Shouldn't towering car. Inside the itchy for of life is the former us planets. Which we hear and speak through depending our flugel home winds barrel waves shunt shore earth Mongia never construction being hurried up the sky against white by endless suction we are 2 species Mylan female bulls run to our call we converse they weep unannounced but rarely talk at all. The animals and the poets was produced by. The last in the current. Production of the b.b.c. . This is Kate un seed 91.5 Greeley for Collins a.v.n. See 90.7 Minturn Vale k r n c 88.5 Steamboat Springs e.n.c. 90.7 s. To spark and k. M.p.b. 90.7 Breckenridge. I'm not blown I'm Stacy Nick I'm Michael the owner We are reporters I make a one team member because I like supporting the things that I use I'm a case u.n.c. Member because I listen every single day I'm a case u.n.c. Member because come on it's k.u.n.c. Join me join me join me and become a k.u.n.c. Sustaining member right now and see don't wait if you wake up to Morning Edition every weekday tune into the puzzle on Weekend Edition or catch up with b.b.c. .

Related Keywords

Radio Program ,United Kingdom ,Island Countries ,Northern Europe ,Western Europe ,Political Science ,Chief Executive Officers ,Nuts 1 Statistical Regions Of The European Union ,Nuts 1 Statistical Regions Of The United Kingdom ,Nuts 2 Statistical Regions Of The United Kingdom ,G20 Nations ,Western Asia ,Corporate Governance ,Corporate Executives ,Climate Change ,Thoroughbred Racehorses ,Members Of The United Kingdom Parliament For English Constituencies ,Near East ,International Organizations Of Europe ,Federalism ,Geography Terminology ,Cities ,Holy Cities ,British Classic Race Winners ,Television Programming ,Fungi ,Legal Procedure ,Radio Kunc 91 5 Fm ,Stream Only ,Radio ,Radioprograms ,